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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner. |
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#1
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CCW on Private Property
I need some help in determining if the following form of ccw is legal in Ca:
I am a security guard, I have my guard card & exposed firearm permit. I do not have a ccw permit. My employer has asked me to work for a customer that wants armed security, but the customer does not want anyone else to know that there is armed security. My instructions are to be plain clothes, not in uniform, carry my weapon concealed, and try to behave as any other customer. To me, this sound like my employer is asking me to carry knowing I do not have a ccw permit. I have called the BSIS, San Diego Pd, and the Sd sheriff ccw licensing division. All have said after I described the above, is concealed carry and that I can not do so with out a ccw permit. My employer has strongly told me that the above is ok because it is on private property, and that the property owner has given permission for the above. I am deeply concerned about this, and have expressed my objections to my employer. I have told my employer that I can not accept that assignment, but my employer continues to state that is is ok. My employer has said that they would not ask me to do anything illegal that would cause them to be fined or lose their licenses. Well, I told them, I do not want to lose my licenses, or go to jail for ccw with out a permit. |
#2
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I don't believe it is legal, the CCW issue being first and foremost. I am going to assume that this is a store since you mention customers. While it may be private property it is open to the public. In order to work plain clothes loss prevention while armed you need to have a ccw, as I understand it. Otherwise you have to be in a distinctive uniform, per BSIS regs.
Have your employer contact BSIS and ask them since it seems he is unwilling to take your word. |
#3
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Unfortunately the answer is complicated, see this article in the CGF wiki: Unlicensed Concealed Carry. You need to read the whole thing to see how your particular situation fits with the penal code and case law, but this is generally true:
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#5
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That is a question on your firearms exam, your company may be fined, revocation of BSIS issued PPO license. You may be cited, arrested and your BSIS exposed carry and guard card license revoked. Plus you will have to complete the courts system, then serve the 10 year period to clear your criminal background. You will loose your right to own, possess firearms, contract wise the company may not have the correct insurance policy to have armed plain clothes security. Either way your in a spot, the client comes first as they pay the bills, for your employer to put you in that position is cause to look elsewhere while you have a job, your refusal to stand post you may be fired, you stand post all bad if you get into a situation, can be someone simply reporting seeing your CCW weapon is all it would take, you chose to work carrying a firearm, do your homework, know your laws, protect yourself and your family and any future job after security work.
Wayne |
#6
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Business and Professions Code looks pretty clear -
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__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#7
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this is the truth^^ |
#9
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in order for you to conduct yourself as such you need BSIS issued certs, guard card and firearms card in the cailber you are carring, plus a CCW/LTC issued from the SO/PD. just becasue you have been doing it for sometime does not make it right. BSIS has completed outreach to PD/So to help educate on the laws/regs regarding proper lisensing of security guards. This would be an example of knowing the laws on both sides. Had you had a UOF, you and your company would be writing a check with several zeros at the end. plus your current department may take issue with it, if you cant not operate with in the limits of law how can you enforce them. again a UOF your department may say out of scope, your on your own.
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#10
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Stay Frosty, Tom Alpha Raiders 1st Battalion 4th Marines 0331 |
#12
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It is true that security companys ask/make their guards carry concealed on pp, however this against BSIS regs. As far as the law is concerned you can, however it can get dicey if you get involved in an incident because you are being hired as a guard. I personaly don't work for companys that do this to their guards because they also put me in a bad spot. Ultimately it's your call and your lively hood. A guard card does not allow yourselves to carry concealed and you will pay the price if caught.
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#13
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Concealed loaded carry in an area accessible to the public is probably illegal. It is also something the BSIS would be very unhappy about, and they would likely revoke your permits even if no charges were filed. This part makes me think you will be in a public area: "[T]ry to behave as any other customer." Don't do it.
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