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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #161  
Old 08-09-2009, 4:22 PM
oldsmoboat oldsmoboat is offline
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I work for Caltrans. My step-son graduated the CHP academy a few years ago,
According to him, they were told to take it easy on Caltrans because when he was on the side of the road getting his butt kicked that Caltrans was going to be the ones to stop and help.

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  #162  
Old 08-09-2009, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by oldsmoboat View Post
I work for Caltrans. My step-son graduated the CHP academy a few years ago,
According to him, they were told to take it easy on Caltrans because when he was on the side of the road getting his butt kicked that Caltrans was going to be the ones to stop and help.


Well I never actually received that specific order, but yes, Cal Trans has stepped in to help me a few times. I was in a fignt in Piru on the 126. They screeched to a halt, got out out with shovels and pick axes. Two whollops into the kidneys and knee caps for the BG was all it took. Well one of them had a chain saw, but that wasn't necessary. I have a lot of respect for Cal Trans.
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  #163  
Old 08-09-2009, 7:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fire in the Hole View Post
Well I never actually received that specific order, but yes, Cal Trans has stepped in to help me a few times. I was in a fignt in Piru on the 126. They screeched to a halt, got out out with shovels and pick axes. Two whollops into the kidneys and knee caps for the BG was all it took. Well one of them had a chain saw, but that wasn't necessary. I have a lot of respect for Cal Trans.
Wow, how many fights have you been in on the freeway?

OT, I would try to lend a hand if the occasion were to arise.
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  #164  
Old 08-09-2009, 7:34 PM
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Wow, how many fights have you been in on the freeway?
OT, I would try to lend a hand if the occasion were to arise.
I've run out of fingers and toes. Let's just say for some reason I attracted 5150's and those prone to fight like a moth to a candle. Just lucky or my lot in life.
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  #165  
Old 08-09-2009, 7:42 PM
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I've run out of fingers and toes. Let's just say for some reason I attracted 5150's and those prone to fight like a moth to a candle. Just lucky or my lot in life.
Glad everything worked out for you in the end then.

I never realized it was that common to get into an altercation from what I would assume to be traffic stops, yeah? Were they mostly people that had been doing other crimes or were afraid of going to jail for warrants; or were they really just crazy and mad that you stopped them?
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  #166  
Old 08-09-2009, 7:59 PM
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Glad everything worked out for you in the end then.

I never realized it was that common to get into an altercation from what I would assume to be traffic stops, yeah? Were they mostly people that had been doing other crimes or were afraid of going to jail for warrants; or were they really just crazy and mad that you stopped them?
D: All of the above.

Or maybe I just have a face that people want to hit.

But having said that, I served under one of the best Sgt.s one could imagine. He was S-1 on Motors, and had to kill 4 people in self defense during his 32 yr. career. I'm glad I never had to go through that.

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  #167  
Old 08-09-2009, 8:00 PM
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I would do anything in my power to help. Seeing as I want to be a LEO soon, I appreciate all the people that would help out too.

Brings that story to mind of that old WW2 veteran that was like 70 getting beat up by some gangster looking guy and a handful of guys were seen in the background on the security camera watching this old man being slammed in his car door. Uhg **** like that disgust me! I would gladly take the place of getting an *** beating rather than some senior citizen or child or female that doesn't stand as good a chance to defend themselves! (not saying i wouldn't help a grown man in need if he were outnumbered or in serious harm, but its usually pretty fair and hard to tell who is actually the victim in just a 1v1 guy fight or what not)
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  #168  
Old 08-09-2009, 8:01 PM
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I'd jump in if the suspect wasn't armed nor a giant. If he was, I would get a weapon and help.
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  #169  
Old 08-11-2009, 2:00 AM
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cops treated me like crap when i was growing up, but id still jump in and save the day
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  #170  
Old 08-12-2009, 4:46 AM
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I know a funny story about a vietnam vet just back in the states in the early 70's who helped out some police officers.

He was carying a 1911 concealed in a shoulder holster in san francisco when he saw a firefight between some police and a bank robber who had good cover.... My friend was behind and to the side of the robbers so he drew and fired 1 round from cover into the shoulder of the robber which pretty much ended the gunplay.

Then he holstered the pistol and walked away. The officers never looked too hard into where that extra .45 slug came from.

I don't think it would fly these days...

What limits are there on the use of force when assisting an officer? I'd like to help but I tend to fight to win, not to subdue/arrest etc.... And I suspect that kicking someone repeatedly in the head is 'just not cricket'... at what point do you stop beating on the guy? what if the officer is unable (not conscious etc) to inform you of the point at which you should stop beating them? Can you get in trouble for excessive use of force? What if you beat them to death, or kill them by putting boot to skull?

Not that I think it will come up, but it would be nice to know BEFORE something occurred rather than afterward.
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  #171  
Old 08-12-2009, 7:07 AM
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When he stops resisting, you gotta stop
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  #172  
Old 08-12-2009, 7:42 AM
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We once had an over zelous officer take on a group of gang members one night. He was saved (they had disarmed him and were holding a gun to his head) by a citizen who came out of his house with his "huntin gun" to save him. You want to talk about greatful...
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  #173  
Old 08-12-2009, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenSeven View Post
I can...

A different and non-violent scanario:

One night loooong ago, I heard a call of a traffic accident in the unincorporated area of Torrance (LASD Carson's initial handle until CHP decides to show up). I was in the area so I went to the location to help out if I could.

On my arrival (3rd or so unit on-scene), I saw a civilian man doing chest compressions and a Deputy doing mouth-to-mouth on an unconscious woman who was injured in the collision.

The man doing the chest compressions was very calm, composed and authoritative while directing "who to do what" as needed, he knew what needed to be done and MORE THAN rose to the occasion. I was very impressed...

He apparently came upon the collision just after it happened and lept to render assistance.

So, within a few moments of my arrival, Fire also arrives and takes over and does their thing, but the woman is already dead.

The worst part for me was when a sergeant said "Did anyone get that man's info? He deserves recognition for what he did."

Talk about feeling STUPID! None of us got his info and he just faded into the background and went on his way without a word when Fire arrived...

This man deserved recognition for what he did and I failed to ask his name. To this day I am disappointed about it.

Sir: if you are out there and happen to read this: Well Done, and Thank You.


There are lots of ways to be of assistance to LE...
You know some people like to keep it that way... If I ever help in an accident or whatever, I wouldn't want my name to be known. I wouldn't do it for the fame or recognition, I would do it out of the kindness of my heart and leave without a word.
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  #174  
Old 08-12-2009, 10:43 PM
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I would help, *IF* my presence in the situation was desired, and *IF* I was going into a situation that I felt I could handle.

I respect police officers. That is my duty as a member of society.
I have a healthy distrust for law enforcement and government, even when I recognize that both are essential to preserving freedom. That is my duty as a citizen of The Republic.
I will help *ALL* those in real danger. That is my duty as a human on this dangerous planet of ours.

These concepts seem so simple and clear...

That said, I would rather leave quietly after helping and leave it at that. I did clear out a burning building once. Very little inconvenience to me, but I know it changed the outcome of the event.

Regards,


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  #175  
Old 08-13-2009, 5:22 AM
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yes!
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  #176  
Old 09-19-2009, 9:48 PM
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I will not hesitate to help any officer in need!!!
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  #177  
Old 09-21-2009, 4:17 PM
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Has in all things...

The specific situation and details would dictate what I did or didn't do.
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  #178  
Old 09-26-2009, 1:09 AM
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I'd help an officer in a fight if necessary. I think that seeing the situation, you'll evaluate whether it's proper to monitor, offer assistance, or jump in.

People should make a point of glancing over at an officer conducting a traffic stop just to make sure that everything looks right.
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  #179  
Old 09-26-2009, 11:55 AM
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To the OP, I would assist a LEO in need. Especially if they asked for help. Isn't that the right thing to do? - Help people for ask for it?

They can even 12031(e) check my pistol afterwards, if they like.
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  #180  
Old 09-26-2009, 2:27 PM
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I would (and have) assisted any stranger getting assaulted by gang-bangers. LEO status is not relevant.
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  #181  
Old 09-27-2009, 3:04 PM
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We appreciate the help...there is always someone bigger and badder than even the most high speed of us. We don't appreciate being asked for directions in the middle of a traffic stop though.
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  #182  
Old 10-14-2009, 1:25 PM
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Yes I would and yes I have jumped to the aid of a cop once and citizens many many times. I fancy myself a modern day super hero :-)

But after reading through this, a question has arisen. I see LEO's and others condoning the use of baseball bats, tazers, and anything else tehy can get their hands on with no worry of repercussion, why becuase it is for a LEO?
"Depending on the circumstances, everything from pepper spray, taser, baseball bat, to a gun may be warranted and totally justified."

Yet at the same time in a personal self-defense situation, one can only use equal and reaonable force ( can't remember the exact wording right now)
to defend oneself.

In other words, if I ( a black belt) get jumped by some scumbags and beat their asses before they lay a hand on me (which has happened) I can be prosecuted for assault (which fortunately didnt happen because of the Nike defense). But if I see a guy sitting on a LEO punching him in the face I can grab the nearest, heaviest object and bash the guy in the head without fear of any repercussions?

Me thinkest me confused?!?! Can a LEO plese help clarify?
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  #183  
Old 10-14-2009, 1:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HalveNaught View Post
Yes I would and yes I have jumped to the aid of a cop once and citizens many many times. I fancy myself a modern day super hero :-)

But after reading through this, a question has arisen. I see LEO's and others condoning the use of baseball bats, tazers, and anything else tehy can get their hands on with no worry of repercussion, why becuase it is for a LEO?
"Depending on the circumstances, everything from pepper spray, taser, baseball bat, to a gun may be warranted and totally justified."

Yet at the same time in a personal self-defense situation, one can only use equal and reaonable force ( can't remember the exact wording right now)
to defend oneself.

In other words, if I ( a black belt) get jumped by some scumbags and beat their asses before they lay a hand on me (which has happened) I can be prosecuted for assault (which fortunately didnt happen because of the Nike defense). But if I see a guy sitting on a LEO punching him in the face I can grab the nearest, heaviest object and bash the guy in the head without fear of any repercussions?

Me thinkest me confused?!?! Can a LEO plese help clarify?
Note the statement, "depending on the circumstances..." This dictates everything regarding the appropriate level of force. When you go from 'defending yourself' to being the 'agressor' in the situation, you cross the line and put yourself in a situation that can have complications.

This applies if you are helping a LEO or member of the general public. You have to look at what was reasonable for THAT situation. each one will be different.

Hope this clarifies it a little.

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  #184  
Old 10-14-2009, 1:51 PM
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Note the statement, "depending on the circumstances..." This dictates everything regarding the appropriate level of force. When you go from 'defending yourself' to being the 'agressor' in the situation, you cross the line and put yourself in a situation that can have complications.
Ok, I can definitely see how crossing the line from defending to attacking can happen, but I guess what confuses me is what takes you across that line. A baseball bat to the temple can be fatal, and is hardly vague in crossing said line. But lets say that instead of a LEO who was getting pounded, it was joe q citizen and I happen to be walking home from a softball game and I crack some random guy up side the head. I assume the punishment would be different for me than if said victim were a LEO?

FYI-As I stated earlier, I train people in martial arts and these types of questions often come up, as far as defending themselves and use of force. I would much rather have accurate information to give students for everyones safety. I guess what thru me off was reading that the use of force could be much higher because it is a LEO who is in danger? MY normal response is to use only enought force equal to the threat, as that is what my understanding has always been.

Thanks Ron.
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  #185  
Old 10-14-2009, 2:06 PM
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I helped the CHP with my shotgun they could not put down a hit beef cow. This young cop shot this cow with his ar-15 5 time before I was called out there. Shot place was to low on it's head he never hit the brain.

If any leo is in trouble and I am there I will help them out.
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  #186  
Old 10-14-2009, 2:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HalveNaught View Post
Ok, I can definitely see how crossing the line from defending to attacking can happen, but I guess what confuses me is what takes you across that line. A baseball bat to the temple can be fatal, and is hardly vague in crossing said line. But lets say that instead of a LEO who was getting pounded, it was joe q citizen and I happen to be walking home from a softball game and I crack some random guy up side the head. I assume the punishment would be different for me than if said victim were a LEO?

FYI-As I stated earlier, I train people in martial arts and these types of questions often come up, as far as defending themselves and use of force. I would much rather have accurate information to give students for everyones safety. I guess what thru me off was reading that the use of force could be much higher because it is a LEO who is in danger? MY normal response is to use only enought force equal to the threat, as that is what my understanding has always been.

Thanks Ron.
You will get more sympathy both from other LEO's and the public and a less motivated DA if you are defending a LEO than Joe the plumber, and that's life, but the laws don't change. If somebody nudges a cop and you take his head off with a bat, you're going to jail. If a cop is getting pummeled by a guy trying to take his gun, and you take his head off with a bat, you will probably discover you have a new group of drinking buddies.
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  #187  
Old 10-14-2009, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HalveNaught View Post
Ok, I can definitely see how crossing the line from defending to attacking can happen, but I guess what confuses me is what takes you across that line. A baseball bat to the temple can be fatal, and is hardly vague in crossing said line. But lets say that instead of a LEO who was getting pounded, it was joe q citizen and I happen to be walking home from a softball game and I crack some random guy up side the head. I assume the punishment would be different for me than if said victim were a LEO? ....
I think that line is called mayhem. Like in if you crack that guy upside the head more often than is necessary and after he has yielded.

Anyway for years now I've kept a 9 iron in the trunk of my car. Used to live close to San Francisco's Golden Gate Park and always thought if I ever caught some scumbag abusing another woman or child there, I'd stop to give him a few whacks or more. But fortunately the occasion never arose. The one thing I did not have in my car trunk all those years with that iron was a set of golf shoes. Now I do, because I found my old shoes in a long-forgotten box. From reading another forum and other cops' take on certain deadly weapons, what matters is intent. A bat carried without a baseball or glove, like a 9 iron without other irons, clubs, golf balls and shoes, is a weapon intended for assault.
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  #188  
Old 10-14-2009, 7:07 PM
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I would not hesitate to help!
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  #189  
Old 10-15-2009, 1:25 PM
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Masameet- Good tips! *note to self, take up golf.*

Last edited by retired; 10-16-2009 at 12:08 PM..
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  #190  
Old 10-16-2009, 10:32 AM
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I would absolutely help without hesitation. Someone else in this thread mentioned hesitation, and they are correct. I have served in the armed forces and am still doing my part in the guard, so maybe my position is not that of a normal citizen who has never served or been involved with law enforcement.

For me, it doesn't stop with a LEO in distress, I would help anyone if I thought help was needed. I am fully aware of the subtleties and how fluid a conflict situation can be, and I am comfortable enough to trust my instinct in those situations. I'm not a 6'8" internet badass either, I'm just a normal guy. My help may not be enough but I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly let someone suffer because I failed to act.
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  #191  
Old 10-16-2009, 11:49 AM
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Masameet- Good tips! *note to self, take up golf.*

Reminds me of a friend of the family who used to be a cop in NY and they used to carry an extra knife to stick in the hands of someone they shot so they appeared armed. Yikes!!
Not really the most useful post to this thread is it?
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  #192  
Old 10-16-2009, 5:09 PM
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If i was asked to help or saw the cop actually lose the fight ( bad guy has a hold of the gun etc) i would jump in but to simply jump in when the cop is trying to arrest is a bad idea cause you can get hurt by either that cop ( he could see you and think that you are going to help the perp ) so he shoves away pulls out his service weapon and pops rounds.

I would absolutely let my actions be known verbally before I even jumped in the fray. I guess I would help but only if the cop was completely losing the fight.
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  #193  
Old 10-19-2009, 8:03 AM
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I would help no matter what.. I have true respect for all officers in the field. I figure if they area out there protecting me, why can't I help when im needed..
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  #194  
Old 10-19-2009, 8:34 AM
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As a former LEO with the SDSO and OPD, yes I would assist if needed.
Regards,
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  #195  
Old 10-19-2009, 9:06 AM
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Not really the most useful post to this thread is it?
Sorry, did not know that was taboo. Will keep everything sugar-coated in the future and refrain from any insights regarding crooked cops.

Again, sorry.
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  #196  
Old 10-19-2009, 10:54 AM
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Fire in the Hole Fire in the Hole is offline
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Originally Posted by HalveNaught View Post
Sorry, did not know that was taboo. Will keep everything sugar-coated in the future and refrain from any insights regarding crooked cops.

Again, sorry.
That would be most appreciated. Thank you for understanding.
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  #197  
Old 10-19-2009, 10:59 AM
retired retired is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalveNaught View Post
Sorry, did not know that was taboo. Will keep everything sugar-coated in the future and refrain from any insights regarding crooked cops.

Again, sorry.
I would suggest if you wish to be able to continue posting in this forum, you read or re-read the rules in the sticky.

Yes, you will refrain from any negative insights regarding leos in this particular forum or you will be banned. Clear.

And knock off the sarcasm.
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  #198  
Old 10-19-2009, 11:25 AM
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HalveNaught HalveNaught is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retired View Post
I would suggest if you wish to be able to continue posting in this forum, you read or re-read the rules in the sticky.

Yes, you will refrain from any negative insights regarding leos in this particular forum or you will be banned. Clear.

And knock off the sarcasm.
Easy there big guy, I just apologized, and absolutely did NOT intend any sarcasm, I was simply implying that certain things obviously need to be filtered and dealt with delicately, hence the sugar-coating reference.

I am not sure which rule I broke, but I will go review them right now. I was simply adding to the conversation brought up by another regarding being deceptive in carrying a deadly weapon:

"From reading another forum and other cops' take on certain deadly weapons, what matters is intent. A bat carried without a baseball or glove, like a 9 iron without other irons, clubs, golf balls and shoes, is a weapon intended for assault. "

And if you reread the evil post in question, I was not condoning any such behavior, nor implying anything about cops, hence the yikes bit. Don't worry, I obviously do not belong in this area, and this will be my last post in the LEO section. I never meant any harm.

Good luck to you and farewell.
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  #199  
Old 10-19-2009, 11:31 AM
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I'd provide assistance in a heartbeat -- even if it's just to call it in to get more help . That officer is someone's loved one -- just like my guy when he was on patrol.
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  #200  
Old 10-19-2009, 11:42 AM
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yzernie yzernie is online now
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Originally Posted by masameet View Post
A bat carried without a baseball or glove, like a 9 iron without other irons, clubs, golf balls and shoes, is a weapon intended for assault.
Not sure how they are basing this conclusion but the mere possession of an item by itself ie: baseball bat, golf club or even a tire thumper does not constitute "a weapon intended for assault". There has to be other criteria met for it to fall under the deadly weapon law. Good luck proving that one.
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I don't feel a thing when some cop gets ghosted.
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