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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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Old 12-31-2009, 1:10 PM
JakiChan JakiChan is offline
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Well the idea is sound but I don't really think the tech is there yet. If we *did* have something that worked well I think some common sense rules would be:

1) The video can only be provided under certain circumstances, i.e. if there is a complaint or something. I think that letting the boss critique your style or listen to what you say in the car when talking with your bud is a bad idea. The only time this should be necessary is when the officer and a civilian disagree about what happened.

2) The video should be held in escrow by an agency that isn't the police. Dunno how to work that practically, but it would eliminate footage that "disappears".

This seems like a technological solution to a human problem - there have been quite a few cases of situations where police may have stepped over the line and when complaints are made they are ignored but when the video shows up on YouTube then it gets taken seriously. The whole "who watches" thing. The fact that things have gotten to the point where someone thinks it's necessary is regretful.
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Old 01-02-2010, 1:28 AM
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trendar5 trendar5 is offline
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Originally Posted by Digital_Boy View Post
See, this is the kind of "the sky is falling" mentality that I don't understand, and that quite frankly ticks me off as a member of society from which all LEOs ultimately derive their privilegs and authority.

How many hours of video footage will an officer shoot on a shift? Multiply that by how ever many officers are under one supervisor and the number of shifts per week they work. I'm quite sure that in anything but a smalltown PD where the total members of the force can be counted on one or two hands, there'll be more video footage generated in a week than there are hours in the week, especially if one supervisor has officers who are direct reports across multiple shifts (days, swing, grave).

They'd, quite literally, have to do nothing but fast forward through video footage 24/7, hoping to catch something that they could use to initiate a disciplinary action against an officer.

Honestly, how is this any different from the dashboard camera? Aside from being wearable, these do the same exact job that the dashcams do. They record officer contacts with the general public. If the tendency of a LEAs management was to put every officer under a microscope at their whim, then there'd be all kinds of stories in the news about "rogue cops caught in the act with their own camera".

And let's not forget the fact that the officer can view copies of his own footage at the end of the shift and use it to double check his paperwork to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed, and correct any flubs that might give an actual bad guy a chance to walk on a technicality.

What scares me most is the mentality among some here, both LEO and non-LEO, that LEOs are somehow sacrosanct, and all their actions above reproach by "mere civilians", and any questioning of their authority, no matter how minor, is tantamount to openly calling for anarchy in the streets. LEOs are human beings, and as such fall prey to human weaknesses, just like anybody else. They have bias and prejudice, and can let that influence their actions, despite training and procedure. There MUST be checks and balances outside of the department to identify and discipline those individuals in uniform who cannot overcome their own personal bias and enforce the law evenly and fairly. Systems like these new headcams are just one tool in the chest that helps to do just that. And all hand wringing aside, the climate has changed, more officer oversight will be the norm instead of the exception. Get used to it, or go back to school to change careers.
Let's hook a camera to you and follow you around on your work day. Then let's make that data fodder for every defense lawyer and liberal reporter in town, who make a living twisting the truth, even video recorded truth. Then let's make sure that you have a job where hesitation and fear of reprisal for doing things that are violent, but 100% justified, can get you dead. Now what do you have to say?
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:29 AM
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HUTCH 7.62 HUTCH 7.62 is offline
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I say the murder and crime rate in San Jose is going up up up. Research how librals cut off the balls of police forces in South Africa. Let me tell you we do not want to head in their think oaklands bad.
Some say that he once mooned two prostitutes just for a round of drinks, but wasn't surprised by the reply......They call him, the Hutch
Some say that he rode a dirtbike 7k miles across the country and that he once applied Bengay to his own testicles for a mere $50............They call him, the Hutch -Top Gear

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Old 01-02-2010, 5:16 PM
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Digital_Boy Digital_Boy is offline
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Originally Posted by trendar5 View Post
Let's hook a camera to you and follow you around on your work day. Then let's make that data fodder for every defense lawyer and liberal reporter in town, who make a living twisting the truth, even video recorded truth. Then let's make sure that you have a job where hesitation and fear of reprisal for doing things that are violent, but 100% justified, can get you dead. Now what do you have to say?
That's a strawman argument if ever there was one.

1: where does the article say ANYTHING about the video data being free for anyone without a warrant to view it? Reporters aren't going to have free and unfettered access to this footage, and I'd say that the department's lawyers and the judges involved will put the slap down on any character assassination by a shyster defense lawyer.
2: I'd WELCOME such a device if I worked as a LEO, since it'd give me an over the shoulder view from an unimpeachable witness. You can fantasize all day about how some magical defense lawyer can "twist things around", but if I followed departmental procedure and a perp tried to sue for misconduct, I'd be damn glad to have that unemotional, unbiased footage, that the review board or jury would see in it's entirety, not just the snippets that would make me look like a thug. As for the media, they're growing less and less relevant every day. If someone leaked the footage from a certain case and edited it to make me look bad, they'd be stymied by Youtube clips showing the entire incident. The media is no longer the 800 lb gorilla that decides "what's fit to print" anymore. Journalism and video distribution have gone open source.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:35 AM
PaperPuncher PaperPuncher is offline
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I am not sure this will ever get off of the ground. Just from the standpoint that it is illegal to record someone's image and voice without their written permission (we will assume in this example that the person is a civilian). If the person were legally apprehended and questioned on camera that is a different story. Since most interactions do not start out with an arrest and the reading of miranda rights this footage certainly couldn't be used against anyone in a court of law.

Seems this is only a way to micromanage officers which is obsurd. Officers are not out looking for trouble, they get called to it or they happen to be close by when it occurs. If you are on the receiving end of some police action you did something to provoke it. Take your licks and move on. I feel bad about the whole Oscar Grant thing in Oakland but for the most part this is the fault of not so good people doing not so good things that required interaction from the police force. I am a firm believer that anything that occurs as the result of the actions of law enforcement while trying handle a situation is just part of the game.

Crime is not multiple choice ex: If I rob a bank today, I will...
A) Get rich quick
B) Get arrested and receive 3 hots and a cot
C) Get wounded in a shootout
D) Get killed
E) All of the above

It seems nowadays if the bank robber got anything but rich quickly there is a lawsuit to be filed against a cop. Guess what, any of the above can happen you should know this before you do something stupid. AFAIC any crime you choose to commit may be punishable by death due to the circumstances so you had better think about that before you decide to steal a hair clip from wally-world. These guys risk their lives everyday so most of us can live peacfully. If we really need to police the police force there is something fundamentally wrong, oh wait, this is California.

Reminds me of Dr. Seuss' "the bee watcher watchers". Great read, has pictures.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:43 AM
mather911 mather911 is offline
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You know, a few years back my family and I were driving outside of Vegas on I-15. We got pulled over by a State Trooper. After a few minutes of checking us out, looking in our Astro Van he appologized and informed me that they were looking for a van that matched our discription. I told him no problem and thanked him for the job he does.

Can you imagine if that would have been California? I have no doubt that it would have been all over the news for profiling of some type. For every bad cop there are thousands of good cop's. This just appears to be another example of "punish the mass for one persons mistake" attitude. It would serve a purpose if it were used as intended, why do I believe that is not the underlying intent? With that many tapes it would more then likely be used when a complaint is filed against the Officer, then they would pull a specific Officers tape. I disagree with the whole concept, a split second hesitation can mean going home to the kid's and wife or going to the morg. Our police force is already handcuffed enough, let them do their job and take their word of what happened until there is reason not to believe them. It is not us against the cop's, it is us and the cop's against the bad guy's.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:26 PM
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bshnt2015 bshnt2015 is offline
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Liability for everyone, it will show both sides of the incident, when the officer is discourtesy or when the citizen goes off or resist. Then again it reminds me of the movie "Aliens", when the marines were fighting the aliens and then the camera went dark.

Last edited by bshnt2015; 01-05-2010 at 12:35 PM..
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