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View Poll Results: How many have heard or thought this?
Both true 0 0%
both false 52 92.86%
first true second false 2 3.57%
second true first false 0 0%
never thought or cared about it 2 3.57%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 12-22-2009, 10:33 PM
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Default Lights and LEO's

just to clear up what I have been told by many people,

[First] Is it true that a leo in his car has to have light/s on like he cant (hide) per say

[Second] Also that CHP cant write you a ticket off the freeway?

Also if you could sight the code that would be great Be safe men and woman and thank you
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Last edited by mtsul; 12-22-2009 at 10:40 PM..
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2009, 10:52 PM
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I am not LEO but I would be willing to bet a finger that both those are false. I am positive the second one is false and 99.99%% sure the first is as well.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2009, 11:02 PM
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I think your refering to the entrapment law....People used to think an officer hiding waiting for you to speed pass was entrapment....Could not be farther from the truth. Briefly, entrapment is when an officer "influences" you to do something illegal that you wouldn't normally do. Generally, your gonna speed if a cop is there or not. Your taking the chance on him not being there.

Now, it is illegal for a cop/agency to have blacked out tail lights in CA, but I don't think thats where you were going.

CHP has power of authority throughout CA and when in hot pursuit into other states. They can cite you anywhere for anything you do illegally.
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:34 AM
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Both false but please keep spreading the rumor. I also like the one where suspects think you have to identify yourself as a police officer if asked when you are working undercover.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2009, 11:04 AM
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Both False

Entrapment has been covered above.

CHP authority is in Penal Code 830.2

830.2. The following persons are peace officers whose authority
extends to any place in the state:
(a) Any member of the Department of the California Highway Patrol.......

The "any place" means exactly that, anywhere in the state, not just the highways. Peace officers under 830.1 (county sheriff, local city cops) and 830.2 (state cops, CHP, Cal State Univ Police etc) have authority outlined as "any place". therefore they are not limited to where they may enforce the law. anyone under either of these authorities can cite anywhere in the state. you can read the whole code at:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

just select penal code and type in the codes above to read the whole thing. good luck and stay safe everyone
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2009, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Both false but please keep spreading the rumor. I also like the one where suspects think you have to identify yourself as a police officer if asked when you are working undercover.
i also like the one that says an arrest is illegal if you aren't read your rights
or
that there is an obligation that the police protect/save you
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  #7  
Old 12-23-2009, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
i also like the one that says an arrest is illegal if you aren't read your rights
or
that there is an obligation that the police protect/save you
Could you explain this one a bit more? I would assume this also Ie: Protect and serve.
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  #8  
Old 12-23-2009, 6:18 PM
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their obligation is to protect and serve the community at large. the supreme court ruling was that there is no obligation for an officer to protect an individual they have not had contact/interaction with...no i don't have the cite, we got it during legal update training about three years ago (the year before i retired)

so if there is a crime occurring and you see an officer driving by and try to wave him down, he isn't legally obligated to stop and help...this doesn't mean he won't, only that you can't sue if he doesn't.

i seem to remember that the case had to do with a crime victim who tried to sue the city/county/state for not preventing the crime from occurring
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Last edited by 9mmepiphany; 12-23-2009 at 6:20 PM.. Reason: tense agreement
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2009, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrist View Post
Both false but please keep spreading the rumor. I also like the one where suspects think you have to identify yourself as a police officer if asked when you are working undercover.
That's the first thing I used ask when I am trolling for hookers Once I found out that cops weren't obligated to be honest, I just started checking teeth. Any hooker missing more than half her teeth is not a cop
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2009, 7:05 PM
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Default Oh 1 more

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrist View Post
Both false but please keep spreading the rumor. I also like the one where suspects think you have to identify yourself as a police officer if asked when you are working undercover.
I also heard that all the time so this is not true either?

Does anybody know the code for this? it would be really helpful thank you.
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Last edited by mtsul; 12-23-2009 at 7:09 PM..
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  #11  
Old 12-23-2009, 7:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
i also like the one that says an arrest is illegal if you aren't read your rightsor
that there is an obligation that the police protect/save you
I also heard this 1 a lot so all are not true?
And I will keep spreding it for the LEO's
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  #12  
Old 12-23-2009, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Does anybody know the code for this? it would be really helpful thank you.
there isn't a code, it was another suit that made it case law.

i think it was a drug case alleged entrapment, but i might be wrong...it's pretty old
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2009, 7:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
their obligation is to protect and serve the community at large. the supreme court ruling was that there is no obligation for an officer to protect an individual they have not had contact/interaction with...no i don't have the cite, we got it during legal update training about three years ago (the year before i retired)

so if there is a crime occurring and you see an officer driving by and try to wave him down, he isn't legally obligated to stop and help...this doesn't mean he won't, only that you can't sue if he doesn't.

i seem to remember that the case had to do with a crime victim who tried to sue the city/county/state for not preventing the crime from occurring
Even more of a reason to own guns... they dont even have to help you... gotta help yourself
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  #14  
Old 12-23-2009, 7:53 PM
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Quote:
they dont even have to help you... gotta help yourself
i think that's the obvious argument for changing to a "shall issue" state...or at least "shall issue, with demonstrated proficiency", like a CDL
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Old 12-23-2009, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
their obligation is to protect and serve the community at large. the supreme court ruling was that there is no obligation for an officer to protect an individual they have not had contact/interaction with...no i don't have the cite, we got it during legal update training about three years ago (the year before i retired)

so if there is a crime occurring and you see an officer driving by and try to wave him down, he isn't legally obligated to stop and help...this doesn't mean he won't, only that you can't sue if he doesn't.

i seem to remember that the case had to do with a crime victim who tried to sue the city/county/state for not preventing the crime from occurring
Castle Rock v. Gonzales

http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2004/2004_04_278
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  #16  
Old 12-23-2009, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
i think that's the obvious argument for changing to a "shall issue" state...or at least "shall issue, with demonstrated proficiency", like a CDL
Not to get off topic, but if they gave out ccw's to people who showed a proficiency equal to what it takes to get a CDL, half the people in this state would be limping around missing toes and testicles.
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  #17  
Old 12-23-2009, 8:26 PM
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Quote:
Castle Rock v. Gonzales
thank you...7-2, not bad

Quote:
if they gave out ccw's to people who showed a proficiency equal to what it takes to get a CDL, half the people in this state would be limping around missing toes and testicles.
that would serve as an indices of who to "throw under the truck" to delay the lion...i know, it's a mixed analogy...of is that metaphor? english is such a difficult 2nd language
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Old 12-23-2009, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mtsul View Post
I also heard that all the time so this is not true either?

Does anybody know the code for this? it would be really helpful thank you.
Sorry, not true.

This is not necessarily codified. It is in case law, meaning that appelate courts have ruled (many times over) that it's okay for a LEO to lie to you, conceal his identity, etc. in the course of conducting an investigation.

I don't have a case citation at my fingertips, but there are a bunch.
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2009, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsul View Post
just to clear up what I have been told by many people,

[First] Is it true that a leo in his car has to have light/s on like he cant (hide) per say

[Second] Also that CHP cant write you a ticket off the freeway?
Also if you could sight the code that would be great Be safe men and woman and thank you
This is definately false because John and Poncharelo were always going undercover and arresting perps off the hwy and they were CHP.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
their obligation is to protect and serve the community at large. the supreme court ruling was that there is no obligation for an officer to protect an individual they have not had contact/interaction with...no i don't have the cite, we got it during legal update training about three years ago (the year before i retired)

so if there is a crime occurring and you see an officer driving by and try to wave him down, he isn't legally obligated to stop and help...this doesn't mean he won't, only that you can't sue if he doesn't.

i seem to remember that the case had to do with a crime victim who tried to sue the city/county/state for not preventing the crime from occurring
Quote:
Originally Posted by iehooligan View Post
Even more of a reason to own guns... they dont even have to help you... gotta help yourself
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
i think that's the obvious argument for changing to a "shall issue" state...or at least "shall issue, with demonstrated proficiency", like a CDL
Quote:
Originally Posted by retired View Post
Thank you for the clarification
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:56 AM
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We aim to please.
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Old 12-24-2009, 2:01 PM
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They can cite you anywhere in the State of Kalifornia.
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Old 12-24-2009, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtMike70 View Post
Both False

Entrapment has been covered above.

CHP authority is in Penal Code 830.2

830.2. The following persons are peace officers whose authority
extends to any place in the state:
(a) Any member of the Department of the California Highway Patrol.......

The "any place" means exactly that, anywhere in the state, not just the highways. Peace officers under 830.1 (county sheriff, local city cops) and 830.2 (state cops, CHP, Cal State Univ Police etc) have authority outlined as "any place". therefore they are not limited to where they may enforce the law. anyone under either of these authorities can cite anywhere in the state. you can read the whole code at:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

just select penal code and type in the codes above to read the whole thing. good luck and stay safe everyone
There are exceptions. Legally speaking, military bases are not within the state. They are federal "annexes" (i.e. military reservations). Some federal facilities and buildings may legally be federal property, for example Lawrence Livermore National Labs is a federal facility.

In these places, your California peace officer status is moot. Your jurisdiction is a matter of professional courtesy and/or any contract with the federal government.


A better question is:
Q: Can city police enforce the vehicle code on State highways and the freeways that cut through their cities?

A: Yes. It used to be that the state's freeways were the sole domain of CHP & State police. City police could not monitor and enforce speed or CVC laws on freeways as routine enforcement. However, the CHP (State) has entered into written agreements with most of the local agencies allowing them to to enforce the CVC on state and federal highways within their jurisdiction.
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2009, 2:32 PM
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Re: Police have no duty to protect you - or to even answer your call for help.

Read my web page Do you have a right to police protection? It'll answer that question for you.

If a police officer is investigating a crime he may lie to you to obtain information. He may not lie about your rights (i.e. tell you that by talking to them earlier, you have already wavied your right to counsel).

But he can lie about the amount and type of evidence he has against you. He can lie and tell you someone else incriminated you. He can tell you that confessing will "make things go easier on you" or get you a lesser sentence -- which he cannot guarantee.

But, if you ask if some act is illegal and he lies to you so that you will do the act, his lie will rise to "entrapment". For instance, in the middle of a downtown block late at night, you ask an officer if you can cross the street there. He says yes and when you do, he tickets you for jaywalking.
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Old 12-25-2009, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCA View Post
Re: Police have no duty to protect you - or to even answer your call for help.

Read my web page Do you have a right to police protection? It'll answer that question for you.

If a police officer is investigating a crime he may lie to you to obtain information. He may not lie about your rights (i.e. tell you that by talking to them earlier, you have already wavied your right to counsel).

But he can lie about the amount and type of evidence he has against you. He can lie and tell you someone else incriminated you. He can tell you that confessing will "make things go easier on you" or get you a lesser sentence -- which he cannot guarantee.

But, if you ask if some act is illegal and he lies to you so that you will do the act, his lie will rise to "entrapment". For instance, in the middle of a downtown block late at night, you ask an officer if you can cross the street there. He says yes and when you do, he tickets you for jaywalking.
Is this true? If so since a UC (under cover) officer does not have to say hes a officer then all you would have to do is ask is this illegal? if you thought you were dealing with a UC and were about to do something illegal
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  #26  
Old 12-26-2009, 1:43 AM
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This is getting silly...... A dope dealer/hooker/whatever knows that its illegal to sell dope/love/whatever. If an undercover officer is playing the role of a crook, then he is under no legal obligation to provide iron-clad legal advice to a crook about to break a law.

Entrapment is when the police suggest/entice/convince you to break a law when you had no intention of doing it in the first place. Example, a U.C. officer tells a guy in a bar that he can make a lot of money if he just joins in with a dope deal. They guy in the bar was never involved until the cop sought him out.

There are no magic words that a crook can say on tape to make it all o.k. if the cops lies about (not) being a cop.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsul View Post
Is this true? If so since a UC (under cover) officer does not have to say hes a officer then all you would have to do is ask is this illegal? if you thought you were dealing with a UC and were about to do something illegal

Last edited by trendar5; 12-26-2009 at 1:46 AM..
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:11 AM
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Trendar has it right.

If a police officer is undercover and denies he's a LEO, you have no expectation that he would be correct by asking him if 'x' was illegal or not. You might as well ask the local villiage idiot the question.

Can police "entrap" a drug dealer into selling drugs? Sure. If the U.C. cop entices a petty dealer into doing something he wouldn't normally do. Such as buying a kilo instead of just a few ounces to "make a big wad of money"... or going to a quack doctor to get prescription drugs to resell (to nail both a crooked doctor and a drug dealer on federal charges).
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