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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-27-2016, 12:01 PM
2fast4u 2fast4u is offline
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Arrow Do Bolt Rifles Hold their value over time ? ? ? ?

With all the new laws coming along. I was thinking of getting a Mossberg MVP LC .223 with Vortex scope that can use AR mags.

I know my ARs and handguns hold there value very well over the years and I'm wondering if that's the same with bolt action rifle's? This would be my first purchase of one.

Do you guys think of this particular one if I'm looking for a model that uses AR magazines?

Thanks.


Last edited by 2fast4u; 08-27-2016 at 12:12 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2016, 12:46 PM
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MVP is a bolt gun with the downs
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2016, 2:11 PM
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No bolt guns do not hold their value unless it's some kind of military collectible. They will however seldom go below a certain level as a used gun.
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  #4  
Old 08-27-2016, 3:12 PM
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Depends on make and model as for the MVP, I highly doubt it will bring anything to the table in later years.
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Old 08-27-2016, 3:22 PM
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I think high dollar custom builds will hold their value.

Run of the mill Rem 700, etc? nah
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  #6  
Old 08-27-2016, 3:28 PM
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Quality rifles in like new condition and maybe a limited model or Caliber will be better to hold their value or be worth more.
Mossberg 223...lol
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Old 08-27-2016, 3:46 PM
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Mossberg MVP??
It's a tool. What does it matter if it "holds it's value", as long as it does what you bought it to do? Which it ought to do just fine when the zombies come.
If you want to invest in true collector grade guns that is a different issue. And a lifetime pursuit and education.
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  #8  
Old 08-27-2016, 3:48 PM
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Quality hunting rifles that are in good shape ,will always be ok. I have an old FN 30-06 that I bought for 500.00 in 2005. Rifles in same condition as mine , sell for about 700-800.00 today.
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  #9  
Old 08-27-2016, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u View Post
I was thinking of getting a Mossberg MVP LC .223

I know my ARs and handguns hold there value very well over the years and I'm wondering if that's the same with bolt action rifle's?
If you buy it used for a good price, it will hold it's value.
If you buy it new, it will be worth the same as most other used ones later, which is to say less than a new one.
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2016, 4:57 PM
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Who knows. I never would have guessed a sks out of a barrel for $75 in the 80's could have someone pay what they are today and there were barrels everywhere.

I agree with some of the others here though, if you're looking for something that could go up, maybe look for something else. Not that it's a bad rifle at all from what I've read.

Last edited by 7anthony7; 08-27-2016 at 5:16 PM..
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  #11  
Old 08-27-2016, 5:02 PM
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A Mossberg MVP will probably lose value.
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2016, 5:06 PM
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Mossbergs will probably never hold value.

CZs on the other hand...
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2016, 5:35 PM
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As soon as you buy it it'll be worth less. 10-20 years down the road they will cost more new and if you have taken care of it yours will also see a bump in price. I have never lost money on a gun. But kept some a long time.
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2016, 5:56 PM
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I'm with KenDog on this one. Figure 10 years of regular use and while it won't appreciate it won't depreciate either.

On a custom build the problem is things change and nobody wants a 15 year old action in competition nor a 15 year old stock.

That said if you hang on long enough they all go up in price with time.

The Remington 788 was the bottom of the barrel in its day selling for $75 new and now they are $400+.

The older customs like Shilen DGA or Wichita actions that were all that years ago cost more now but haven't really appreciated. The guys are now using them for varmint guns.
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Old 08-27-2016, 6:22 PM
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When they ban all new guns in KommiFornia, yea then it will go up.
Try buying a Ruger MarkXX .22LR these days.
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  #16  
Old 08-27-2016, 7:05 PM
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I dont think they hold the value well unless its in limited supply. The Rem 5R goes for about 1200ish new and I couldnt even sell mine for $850 near new. Unless its a great deal or someone really wants that particular model I dont think they resell well.
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  #17  
Old 08-27-2016, 7:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
I'm with KenDog on this one. Figure 10 years of regular use and while it won't appreciate it won't depreciate either.

On a custom build the problem is things change and nobody wants a 15 year old action in competition nor a 15 year old stock.

That said if you hang on long enough they all go up in price with time.

The Remington 788 was the bottom of the barrel in its day selling for $75 new and now they are $400+.

The older customs like Shilen DGA or Wichita actions that were all that years ago cost more now but haven't really appreciated. The guys are now using them for varmint guns.
Really kind of interested in this. Do you think the old M70 action builds, or those built upon Springfield 1903 actions are somewhat "not desirable" now? Having been exposed to many of the older actions used in custom builds, I find them to be far preferable to most production stuff made now. What kind of competition are you referring to? A lot of former military actions, from many old/failed nations, are often used in wildcat custom guild gun builds.

Check American Custom Gunmakers Guild, and I'm fairly certain you'll find very few extremely high value custom guns being built upon modern actions. IDKFS, but I've seen quite a few up close, and know several of their members who have recognized and "published" guns in the Guild using old actions.
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Old 08-27-2016, 8:01 PM
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A fine European rifle like a Sauer will appreciate .
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  #19  
Old 08-27-2016, 9:03 PM
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Mossberg? No?

Appreciate?

A newly Manufactured FN Winchester M70, yup. Browning, yup. Kimber bolt rifle, perhaps yes. Sako, yup. CZ, more than likely.

A fine bolt rifle is sort of like buying an O/U shotgun. Buy once, cry once.

Do yourself a favor, and buy something nice for yourself. You will never regret it, and you can hand it down to your children.
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  #20  
Old 08-27-2016, 9:30 PM
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Buy something Classic.
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  #21  
Old 08-27-2016, 9:54 PM
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Mossberg lol and ar's do not hold their value. As far as pistols it's a supply/demand thing especially in California. A glock 43 for $900, I don't think so. Only in California, lol
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  #22  
Old 08-28-2016, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If you buy it used for a good price, it will hold it's value.
If you buy it new, it will be worth the same as most other used ones later, which is to say less than a new one.
Was going to say the same exact thing.

But since you can only have 10 round mags soon, you might as well pick up a used 700, Savage, or Tikka.
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  #23  
Old 08-28-2016, 8:08 AM
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Go get a Jungle #5
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Old 08-28-2016, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roostersgt View Post
Really kind of interested in this. Do you think the old M70 action builds, or those built upon Springfield 1903 actions are somewhat "not desirable" now? Having been exposed to many of the older actions used in custom builds, I find them to be far preferable to most production stuff made now. What kind of competition are you referring to? A lot of former military actions, from many old/failed nations, are often used in wildcat custom guild gun builds.

Check American Custom Gunmakers Guild, and I'm fairly certain you'll find very few extremely high value custom guns being built upon modern actions. IDKFS, but I've seen quite a few up close, and know several of their members who have recognized and "published" guns in the Guild using old actions.
Roostergt
When I say custom i am referring to the action.
A model 70 action has little value unless it is a specialty firearm with a low build number.
A field grade 270 or 30-06 has no real value when compared to a deluxe or safari grade in a unique chambering.
On the guild guns those are labor of love rifles. You take a $300 action add a $650 barrel then spend $6000 on some wood and another $6000 on engraving and customization.
When your all said and done you have a nice shooting $2000-$3000 rifle that cost you $14000 and 5 years of your time.
If you want to collect guns go with shotguns like Parkers Lefevers,Lujtics,Perazzi,Ithacas,Winchesters and most stuff over 60 years old.
Some sold for $200 new and are now worth $7500 or more.
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Last edited by LynnJr; 08-29-2016 at 10:11 PM..
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  #25  
Old 08-28-2016, 9:27 AM
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  #26  
Old 08-28-2016, 9:54 AM
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It all depends really on the current market at the time of purchase. I got my MVP Varmit on sale a few years back for $420 out the door. I could probably sell it for a little more in the current market.
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  #27  
Old 08-28-2016, 3:12 PM
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Arrow

Not saying for it to go up LoL but I know if I buy a Glock today for $600 and keep it nice in 8-10 years it will still sell for $400-$450👍

Here is a look at the rifle MVP LC

http://www.mossberg.com/product/mvp-...d-combo-27776/
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  #28  
Old 08-28-2016, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot_man View Post
I think high dollar custom builds will hold their value.

Run of the mill Rem 700, etc? nah
Unless its collectible, high dollar and and value retention almost never go together. The exception would be those that are in scarce supply.

If I purchased something for 600 and used it for a couple of years, and sold it for 450, i would say it kepts its value well.
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  #29  
Old 08-29-2016, 6:09 PM
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Looking on the 'Hide, there has been a trend downward on custom bolt guns as of late. I think the RPR and others of its ilk are taking the market away as those who would have saved up the 3K to get a nice quality used custom are no longer there. A surgeon / manners / bartlein setup went for just over ~2300 (albeit a fire sale). That's about a grand less than what it would have gone for last year.
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Old 08-29-2016, 6:15 PM
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I'm fairly certain my Ruger 77/22 bolt gun will sell for more than I paid for and I bought it new at msrp.
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  #31  
Old 08-29-2016, 8:46 PM
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The thing about nicer bolt rifles ($2k+) is that people shooting them often use higher end and custom ammunition. So, after you shoot through your first barrel, you will realize that you are much much further behind than you would have thought. If you spend the time and money on ammo, I suggest getting a rifle that you desire because they are all costly to shoot.

With respect to the AR mags, with bolt action rifles, folks want to use AR mags simply because they already own them. However, if you were to buy magazines for a bolt rifle, you would not want to get AR magazines. AR magazines usually do not allow for optimal loading length for .223 or .308. Especially in the .223, if you use heavy bullets, your rifle will probably function better with magazines that can feed bullets longer than 2.25".
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Old 08-30-2016, 12:01 PM
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What are the over all feelings on the Mossberg MVP LC? I see a dealer selling one for $1450 with scope. Seems like a good deal for all that you get.
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Old 09-08-2016, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u View Post
What are the over all feelings on the Mossberg MVP LC? I see a dealer selling one for $1450 with scope. Seems like a good deal for all that you get.
Seems is the key word.
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Old 09-08-2016, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fast4u View Post
Not saying for it to go up LoL but I know if I buy a Glock today for $600 and keep it nice in 8-10 years it will still sell for $400-$450👍

Here is a look at the rifle MVP LC

http://www.mossberg.com/product/mvp-...d-combo-27776/
Glock? Man card pulled....

Op if that's the rifle you want. Get it.
I had an mvp that I took a loss on when I sold it. Just wasn't using it as much as my ar's. But with all this bs going on it has me thinking similarly
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Old 09-27-2016, 4:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Roostergt
When I say custom i am referring to the action.
A model 70 action has little value unless it is a specialty firearm with a low build number.
A field grade 270 or 30-06 has no real value when compared to a deluxe or safari grade in a unique chambering.
On the guild guns those are labor of love rifles. You take a $300 action add a $650 barrel then spend $6000 on some wood and another $6000 on engraving and customization.
When your all said and done you have a nice shooting $2000-$3000 rifle that cost you $14000 and 5 years of your time.
If you want to collect guns go with shotguns like Parkers Lefevers,Lujtics,Perazzi,Ithacas,Winchesters and most stuff over 60 years old.
Some sold for $200 new and are now worth $7500 or more.
Lynn, we're in agreement and I won't dispute anything you've stated. I was merely pointing out that nobody builds guns like they used to, and that many of the older rifles / actions are more desirable/stronger than the newer stuff available, think pre-64. Am I mistaken that you'r referring to one-of -a -kind actions?

If I were to rely on a new manufacture action to "hold' its' value for the long run, over the tried and true overbuilt stuff of yesteryear, I'd be willing to bet on the Montana Rifle Company 1999 action/bolt w/a Krieger barrel (pick favorite caliber). Could be completely wrong here, but have yet to hear of anyone using modern actions for longevity, sans recent production Rem 700 actions for target/long range shooting. This brings up the age old argument about value of push feed vs controlled feed for rifle value/build desirability.

I'm a huge fan of the craftsmanship and skill of yesteryears machinists, not multi-piece CNC machined production parts. I own both old rifles, and new rifles, and one can easily notice the difference in craftsmanship and quality between them.

Never mind, I re-read your last and see what you're saying.

Last edited by roostersgt; 09-27-2016 at 4:13 AM..
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Old 09-27-2016, 9:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roostersgt View Post
I'm a huge fan of the craftsmanship and skill of yesteryears machinists, not multi-piece CNC machined production parts. I own both old rifles, and new rifles, and one can easily notice the difference in craftsmanship and quality between them.
What you can notice by handling them is all the HAND WORK that went into them.
You will never notice the dimensional consistency by touch/feel/look.
The hand work is important to the finish and feel, but has nothing to do with how straight/round/parallel they are.
How straight/round/parallel they are directly relates to how accurate you can make them.

The newer cnc produced guns are more robotic.
The newer guns are more consistent/accurate/precise than the older guns.
The newer cnc guns do not have the nice smoothed off corners or the nice hand polishing done to them.
They are nice and straight/round/parallel, but that lack the soul of the old ones that had a lot more hand work put into them.

The old guns are better for collecting.
The new guns are better for shooting.
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
What you can notice by handling them is all the HAND WORK that went into them.
You will never notice the dimensional consistency by touch/feel/look.
The hand work is important to the finish and feel, but has nothing to do with how straight/round/parallel they are.
How straight/round/parallel they are directly relates to how accurate you can make them.

The newer cnc produced guns are more robotic.
The newer guns are more consistent/accurate/precise than the older guns.
The newer cnc guns do not have the nice smoothed off corners or the nice hand polishing done to them.
They are nice and straight/round/parallel, but that lack the soul of the old ones that had a lot more hand work put into them.

The old guns are better for collecting.
The new guns are better for shooting.
Great point...my Uncle, who was a machinist in the 50's for a gun maker, always deplored the comparatively shoddy work of that era. Things rushed out the door that weren't straight, or true, or round. And not just at his shop, he claimed it was an industry-wide issue.

When I was helping him value his collection, he couldn't understand why people were willing to pay so much for his old stuff, since he considered it inferior to what can be bought now, haha!! I explained to him that the common feeling is that "they don't make them like they used to" to which he said, "Thank goodness!!"

He loved the consistency and accuracy of the newer stuff. He was blown away at the tolerances and dimensional accuracy in the Defiance and BAT actions that I recently bought.
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  #38  
Old 09-27-2016, 10:32 AM
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my Uncle, who was a machinist in the 50's for a gun maker, always deplored the comparatively shoddy work of that era. Things rushed out the door that weren't straight, or true, or round. And not just at his shop, he claimed it was an industry-wide issue.
It was.
The guns just need to be "good enough" to work.
There was no incentive to make them "better".
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  #39  
Old 09-27-2016, 11:08 AM
roostersgt roostersgt is offline
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Certainly no expert on the subject, but a whole lot of people seem to desire pre-64 rifles and old Belgium Browning "shooters". So much so that they're going for 100x more than they sold for new. My M70 originally was bought new in '53 by my father for around $60, and his 1960's Rem 700, and 1950's Rem 722 for a bit less. I'd say they increased substantially in value since then. I'm unaware any bolt gun manufactured in the past 25 years, or so, increasing in value at all, as most sell for about half/two thirds of what they cost when new. At least that's what I've noticed on GB and the CG Marketplace.

As to having to "work" on the older stuff to make it more accurate, that seems spot on. All of my older stuff needed to be glass bedded/pillared and barrel floated to make them work "better". None have ever needed any gunsmithing, or warranty work and they're all now well over 50 years old and used regularly while hunting every year. New rifles may shoot better out of the box, but I seriously doubt they will hold/increase in value like the older stuff, collectable, or not. Field grade older rifles from the 50' - 60's are selling for far more than they did new. That said, I believe the answer to the OP's question is; It depends on what bolt gun he is referring to.

Last edited by roostersgt; 09-27-2016 at 11:20 AM..
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  #40  
Old 09-27-2016, 11:49 AM
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milotrain milotrain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot_man View Post
I think high dollar custom builds will hold their value.
Doubtful. I don't want to spend custom money on someone else's custom. If I'm spending custom money I want the customizations that I want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roostersgt View Post
I was merely pointing out that nobody builds guns like they used to, and that many of the older rifles / actions are more desirable/stronger than the newer stuff available, think pre-64.
The guns that were really worth something "back then" are still being made like they used to. The "tool" rifles of yesteryear are less useful than the "tool" rifles of today.
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Last edited by milotrain; 09-27-2016 at 11:51 AM..
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