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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 12-01-2018, 6:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
I’m just shocked at how many are okay with this. I guess people don’t care as much about gun rights as I thought.
Saying things like “at least it’s not Hilary” does not change the fact. Obama’s DOJ did not try to take bump stocks from us, even after a review. The fact that Trump does, and people are okay with it basically means there are things more important to you than gun rights. Sad
Sorry sport we got the memo from gun grabber democrat hot shot Rahm Emanuel.
He told us how you totalitarian Democrats should separate President Trump from his base.
Feel free to leave now!
https://www.breitbart.com/video/2018...-and-his-base/
The former chief of staff for former President Barack Obama said the next two years need to be spent setting up for 2020 and “dividing” Trump and his Republican base.
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  #42  
Old 12-02-2018, 3:12 AM
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Well the New Democrat Bolsheviks have the house now- so I am sure they will fight the bump stock ban tooth and nail and try to stop it from being put in place.

The Democrats always fight for the 2nd amendment and the R2KBA. They are planing on how to stop it right now burning the midnite oil.!! Crying Chuck is leading the fight! He is all about American citizens owning firearms- always has been!

To bad Hillary is not the president GD it! she would never ban bump stocks!!

Sure--- lol

Last edited by Ugly Hombre; 12-02-2018 at 3:20 AM..
  #43  
Old 12-02-2018, 4:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
Who cares? Bumpstocks are stupid anyway. You don't even need a bumpstock to simulate full auto. All you need is a semiauto rifle-preferably an AR pattern,
your thumb, and a belt loop on your pants.
Who cares about an assault weapon ban? You don't need one. All you need is a mini 14 or something like that.

The fact so many people are okay with this simply because it doesn't affect them is insane. This is banning something that doesn't meet the definition of the law they're using using to ban it.

This is just like the ATF ruling 7N6 armor piercing and everything going "who cares?" Then they went after green tip and everyone lost their mind. Just like then, half of us saw it coming. This will be just the beginning. But who cares right? As long as it doesn't affect you.
  #44  
Old 12-02-2018, 6:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Who cares about an assault weapon ban? You don't need one. All you need is a mini 14 or something like that.

The fact so many people are okay with this simply because it doesn't affect them is insane. This is banning something that doesn't meet the definition of the law they're using using to ban it.

This is just like the ATF ruling 7N6 armor piercing and everything going "who cares?" Then they went after green tip and everyone lost their mind. Just like then, half of us saw it coming. This will be just the beginning. But who cares right? As long as it doesn't affect you.
I agree 100%

And I don’t own a bumpstock or even want one. I think they look ugly on the firearm and are a toy. But I’m against another victimless crime being imposed and another law that is an infringement of the 2nd. Sadly, the hive will give tacit approval with their silence. We are doomed to repeat this again and again. It’s called a “compromise”.
  #45  
Old 12-02-2018, 6:05 AM
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People un-ironically defending Trump in this thread.
https://i.imgur.com/VO8ysrz.jpg
https://theintercept.com/2016/01/27/...sault-weapons/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgybgEKHHI
bUt wHaT ABouT hIllarY
  #46  
Old 12-02-2018, 7:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
I agree 100%

And I don’t own a bumpstock or even want one. I think they look ugly on the firearm and are a toy. But I’m against another victimless crime being imposed and another law that is an infringement of the 2nd. Sadly, the hive will give tacit approval with their silence. We are doomed to repeat this again and again. It’s called a “compromise”.
But, but, but - "it's a free country"...

The most restrictive free country I could imagine
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  #47  
Old 12-02-2018, 7:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Who cares about an assault weapon ban? You don't need one. All you need is a mini 14 or something like that.

The fact so many people are okay with this simply because it doesn't affect them is insane. This is banning something that doesn't meet the definition of the law they're using using to ban it.

This is just like the ATF ruling 7N6 armor piercing and everything going "who cares?" Then they went after green tip and everyone lost their mind. Just like then, half of us saw it coming. This will be just the beginning. But who cares right? As long as it doesn't affect you.
It is called the death of a thousand cuts.
  #48  
Old 12-02-2018, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
I agree 100%

And I don’t own a bumpstock or even want one. I think they look ugly on the firearm and are a toy. But I’m against another victimless crime being imposed and another law that is an infringement of the 2nd. Sadly, the hive will give tacit approval with their silence. We are doomed to repeat this again and again. It’s called a “compromise”.
Me too. They're a novelty item. It's something that's maybe fun to waste stupid amounts of money at the range. I don't own one and never saw the draw to it but you have to be dense as **** to not see the terrible precedent this sets.
  #49  
Old 12-02-2018, 11:50 AM
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This is a brilliant political maneuver by Trump! This is truly an example of "chess, not checkers." It reminds me of when Lord Toranaga threw Blackthorne ("Anjin-san") into prison in Shogun to protect him from Ishido.



Trump protects bumpstocks by taking them off of the political radar by having the AFT ban them via regulation. (1) That way next year the Dems in the House can pass a bill to ban them and the Repubs in the Senate and Trump can say, "No need, we've already banned them." The vast majority of the antis (non-professional antis) and low information voters will think, "Ah. Thank God that's been done." He's effectively KILLED the antis' ability to ban bumpstocks by law.

Now, (2) bumpstocks can come back in a few years (remember the "Sunset" provision in the '94 AWB?), once the political winds have calmed down by just having the ATF repeal their regulation. (3) OR, they can come back in a few years once a Trump packed SCOTUS hands down a ruling that will allow a lawsuit against the regulation to prevail (a regulatory ban may not even pass intermediate scrutiny whereas a legislative ban may -- I don't know if the standards are different).

(4) Last, this will help Trump and (5) pro-gun congressional candidates win elections/reelection come 2020 by removing them as a political tar baby. That will prevent Dems from winning (and that prevent them from passing a bunch of anti bills/laws).

(6) After being reelected in 2020, Trump will, if Repubs get elected/reelected in numbers sufficient to maintain control of the Senate, be able to add even more judges to the federal Courts of Appeal and SCOTUS.

Sure, it may suck for some of us temporarily. But for our 2nd A RKBA in the long-term, this is brilliant.
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Last edited by Paladin; 12-02-2018 at 11:51 PM.. Reason: corrected year of next election
  #50  
Old 12-02-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Who cares about an assault weapon ban? You don't need one. All you need is a mini 14 or something like that.

The fact so many people are okay with this simply because it doesn't affect them is insane. This is banning something that doesn't meet the definition of the law they're using using to ban it.

This is just like the ATF ruling 7N6 armor piercing and everything going "who cares?" Then they went after green tip and everyone lost their mind. Just like then, half of us saw it coming. This will be just the beginning. But who cares right? As long as it doesn't affect you.
A bumpstock is not a rifle or ammuniton. We need to pick our battles, not go kneejerk apoplectic over some minor 'infringement'. That response dilutes our energies, and makes us look unreasonable to most non gunowners who are on the fence.
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  #51  
Old 12-02-2018, 3:33 PM
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I could see if Trump said no bump stocks sold after a certain date but to demand people destroy or give away their property without compensation is wrong.
  #52  
Old 12-02-2018, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by R Dale View Post
I could see if Trump said no bump stocks sold after a certain date but to demand people destroy or give away their property without compensation is wrong.
Exactly. This is what they would do with the rifles and ammo if it comes to that. If they paid us market value to turn them in the pain of a ban would be much less. This is an example of things to come.

Last edited by ptalar; 12-02-2018 at 7:12 PM..
  #53  
Old 12-02-2018, 7:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
This is a brilliant political maneuver by Trump! This is truly an example of "chess, not checkers." It reminds me of when Lord Toranaga threw Blackthorne ("Anjin-san") into prison in Shogun to protect him from Ishido.



Trump protects bumpstocks by taking them off of the political radar by having the AFT ban them via regulation. (1) That way next year the Dems in the House can pass a bill to ban them and the Repubs in the Senate and Trump can say, "No need, we've already banned them." The vast majority of the antis (non-professional antis) and low information voters will think, "Ah. Thank God that's been done." He's effectively KILLED the antis' ability to ban bumpstocks by law.

Now, (2) bumpstocks can come back in a few years (remember the "Sunset" provision in the '94 AWB?), once the political winds have calmed down by just having the ATF repeal their regulation. (3) OR, they can come back in a few years once a Trump packed SCOTUS hands down a ruling that will allow a lawsuit against the regulation to prevail (a regulatory ban may not even pass intermediate scrutiny whereas a legislative ban may -- I don't know if the standards are different).

(4) Last, this will help Trump and (5) pro-gun congressional candidates win elections/reelection come 2022 by removing them as a political tar baby. That will prevent Dems from winning, and prevent them from passing a bunch of anti laws.

(6) After being reelected in 2022, Trump will, if Repubs get elected/reelected in numbers sufficient to maintain control of the Senate, be able to add even more judges to the federal Courts of Appeal and SCOTUS.

Sure, it may suck for some of us temporarily. But for our 2nd A RKBA in the long-term, this is brilliant.
I was thinking something rather similar. The ATF chief testified before congress that according to his advisors this ban was questionable, if legal at all, and would most likely be at least delayed by any number of court cases. He told congress that if they really wanted them banned the best method would be by legislation.

So let's say the ban is put in place by ATF. Someone sues and the ban is overturned or made unworkable. Then Trump, the ATF, and everyone else involved shrugs and says "Well, we tried. It up to you now Congress."
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  #54  
Old 12-02-2018, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
A bumpstock is not a rifle or ammuniton. We need to pick our battles, not go kneejerk apoplectic over some minor 'infringement'. That response dilutes our energies, and makes us look unreasonable to most non gunowners who are on the fence.
Yep its knee jerk and dilutes our energy to fight abuses of power.
  #55  
Old 12-03-2018, 8:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
This is a brilliant political maneuver by Trump! This is truly an example of "chess, not checkers." It reminds me of when Lord Toranaga threw Blackthorne ("Anjin-san") into prison in Shogun to protect him from Ishido.



Trump protects bumpstocks by taking them off of the political radar by having the AFT ban them via regulation. (1) That way next year the Dems in the House can pass a bill to ban them and the Repubs in the Senate and Trump can say, "No need, we've already banned them." The vast majority of the antis (non-professional antis) and low information voters will think, "Ah. Thank God that's been done." He's effectively KILLED the antis' ability to ban bumpstocks by law.

Now, (2) bumpstocks can come back in a few years (remember the "Sunset" provision in the '94 AWB?), once the political winds have calmed down by just having the ATF repeal their regulation. (3) OR, they can come back in a few years once a Trump packed SCOTUS hands down a ruling that will allow a lawsuit against the regulation to prevail (a regulatory ban may not even pass intermediate scrutiny whereas a legislative ban may -- I don't know if the standards are different).

(4) Last, this will help Trump and (5) pro-gun congressional candidates win elections/reelection come 2020 by removing them as a political tar baby. That will prevent Dems from winning (and that prevent them from passing a bunch of anti bills/laws).

(6) After being reelected in 2020, Trump will, if Repubs get elected/reelected in numbers sufficient to maintain control of the Senate, be able to add even more judges to the federal Courts of Appeal and SCOTUS.

Sure, it may suck for some of us temporarily. But for our 2nd A RKBA in the long-term, this is brilliant.
What a great analysis I totally missed it! thank you for enlightening me.
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  #56  
Old 12-03-2018, 9:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
This is a brilliant political maneuver by Trump! This is truly an example of "chess, not checkers." It reminds me of when Lord Toranaga threw Blackthorne ("Anjin-san") into prison in Shogun to protect him from Ishido.



Trump protects bumpstocks by taking them off of the political radar by having the AFT ban them via regulation. (1) That way next year the Dems in the House can pass a bill to ban them and the Repubs in the Senate and Trump can say, "No need, we've already banned them." The vast majority of the antis (non-professional antis) and low information voters will think, "Ah. Thank God that's been done." He's effectively KILLED the antis' ability to ban bumpstocks by law.

Now, (2) bumpstocks can come back in a few years (remember the "Sunset" provision in the '94 AWB?), once the political winds have calmed down by just having the ATF repeal their regulation. (3) OR, they can come back in a few years once a Trump packed SCOTUS hands down a ruling that will allow a lawsuit against the regulation to prevail (a regulatory ban may not even pass intermediate scrutiny whereas a legislative ban may -- I don't know if the standards are different).

(4) Last, this will help Trump and (5) pro-gun congressional candidates win elections/reelection come 2020 by removing them as a political tar baby. That will prevent Dems from winning (and that prevent them from passing a bunch of anti bills/laws).

(6) After being reelected in 2020, Trump will, if Repubs get elected/reelected in numbers sufficient to maintain control of the Senate, be able to add even more judges to the federal Courts of Appeal and SCOTUS.

Sure, it may suck for some of us temporarily. But for our 2nd A RKBA in the long-term, this is brilliant.





(apologies in advance for vulgar gif - please remove if needed)
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  #57  
Old 12-03-2018, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
http://www.wbtv.com/2018/11/29/repor...ump-stock-ban/

" new rule the Trump White House wants to implement would require anyone who owns bump stocks to destroy or surrender the devices to authorities within 90 days.""
Good.

I don't support private ownership of FA weapons outside the current NFA process.

Cue outraged posts about how bump stocks do not alter the firing mechanism of a semi-auto firearm and hence they are "still" semi-auto. Save your time because that pedantic notion* is missing the point. ON PAPER, yes, a FA weapon means "many bullets from one squeeze of the trigger". But EFFECTIVELY what "FA" means to the public is "a sh*t-ton of bullets coming out in a short time".

So yes my friends, where it counts, bump stocks convert a SA weapon to FA.

Who get's bump stocks? Those not willing or able to jump through the NFA hoops to get an actual FA weapon. Ergo they are a FA substitute/work around and should be banned or regulated. Make them an NFA item if you want.



*People who make this argument are probably also the type to argue that the "AR" in "AR15" does not stand for "Assault Rifle", as if that distinction means ANYTHING to the other side.
  #58  
Old 12-03-2018, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
This is a brilliant political maneuver by Trump! This is truly an example of "chess, not checkers." It reminds me of when Lord Toranaga threw Blackthorne ("Anjin-san") into prison in Shogun to protect him from Ishido.



Trump protects bumpstocks by taking them off of the political radar by having the AFT ban them via regulation. (1) That way next year the Dems in the House can pass a bill to ban them and the Repubs in the Senate and Trump can say, "No need, we've already banned them." The vast majority of the antis (non-professional antis) and low information voters will think, "Ah. Thank God that's been done." He's effectively KILLED the antis' ability to ban bumpstocks by law.

Now, (2) bumpstocks can come back in a few years (remember the "Sunset" provision in the '94 AWB?), once the political winds have calmed down by just having the ATF repeal their regulation. (3) OR, they can come back in a few years once a Trump packed SCOTUS hands down a ruling that will allow a lawsuit against the regulation to prevail (a regulatory ban may not even pass intermediate scrutiny whereas a legislative ban may -- I don't know if the standards are different).

(4) Last, this will help Trump and (5) pro-gun congressional candidates win elections/reelection come 2020 by removing them as a political tar baby. That will prevent Dems from winning (and that prevent them from passing a bunch of anti bills/laws).

(6) After being reelected in 2020, Trump will, if Repubs get elected/reelected in numbers sufficient to maintain control of the Senate, be able to add even more judges to the federal Courts of Appeal and SCOTUS.

Sure, it may suck for some of us temporarily. But for our 2nd A RKBA in the long-term, this is brilliant.
With ALL the crap on Trump's plate, do you SERIOUSLY believe he is going to devote any mental energy to some sort of long term plan to save bump stocks?

The only reason he supports 2A stuff is because he is playing the role of a republican president and as such he knows he has to, ON THE WHOLE, support some "gun stuff". Bump stocks are a sacrificial fringe thing that he truly does not give a crap about.
  #59  
Old 12-03-2018, 11:34 AM
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A good read about this from Reason:

https://reason.com/blog/2018/11/29/t...o-announce-poi
  #60  
Old 12-03-2018, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
I've had this account a long time. Never saw the need to post.
Just wondering what the heck is up with a ban and you have to surrender your stuff or else. Isn't this the start?

Trump is saying give them back and surrender them or we will come after you.
Isn't this insanity from a Republican?

Are we about to fall for the same **** Reagan gave us here in CA?
WE lost all our gun rights because of a republican governor in the first place.
"Taking" is unconstitutional. That's how you got the injunction against the magazine ban.
  #61  
Old 12-03-2018, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
A bumpstock is not a rifle or ammuniton. We need to pick our battles, not go kneejerk apoplectic over some minor 'infringement'. That response dilutes our energies, and makes us look unreasonable to most non gunowners who are on the fence.
You need to read to proposed ATF regs. It's not just bump stocks. It's anything that can raise the rate of fire. It could be interpreted by a prosecutor or judge to be any kind of aftermarket trigger, a muzzle brake, anything that makes a gun easier to shoot.
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Old 12-03-2018, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
You need to read to proposed ATF regs. It's not just bump stocks. It's anything that can raise the rate of fire. It could be interpreted by a prosecutor or judge to be any kind of aftermarket trigger, a muzzle brake, anything that makes a gun easier to shoot.
Not hardly we have the supreme court and gun grabbing democrats do not need any law to prosecute!
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  #63  
Old 12-03-2018, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
You need to read to proposed ATF regs. It's not just bump stocks. It's anything that can raise the rate of fire. It could be interpreted by a prosecutor or judge to be any kind of aftermarket trigger, a muzzle brake, anything that makes a gun easier to shoot.
I just can't get worked up about bumpstocks; don't think they're worth expending any legal resources on. Sorry.
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Old 12-03-2018, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
With ALL the crap on Trump's plate, do you SERIOUSLY believe he is going to devote any mental energy to some sort of long term plan to save bump stocks?

The only reason he supports 2A stuff is because he is playing the role of a republican president and as such he knows he has to, ON THE WHOLE, support some "gun stuff". Bump stocks are a sacrificial fringe thing that he truly does not give a crap about.
Pretty much sums it up.
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  #65  
Old 12-04-2018, 4:54 PM
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Obama’s DOJ has already ruled bump stocks were okay. This notion that this is some brilliant maneuver by Trump is ridiculous. Guess some of us here are still going to be fooled by trump and his lies, probably forever.
  #66  
Old 12-04-2018, 5:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
Obama’s DOJ has already ruled bump stocks were okay. This notion that this is some brilliant maneuver by Trump is ridiculous. Guess some of us here are still going to be fooled by trump and his lies, probably forever.

It is a brilliant move by President Trump and he has outmaneuvered you democrats again.
Gave you nothing and even shut up big democrat media, over this anyway.

BTW democrat trolls like you are so easy to spot. Nice try though!
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  #67  
Old 12-04-2018, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
This is a brilliant political maneuver by Trump! This is truly an example of "chess, not checkers." It reminds me of when Lord Toranaga threw Blackthorne ("Anjin-san") into prison in Shogun to protect him from Ishido.



Trump protects bumpstocks by taking them off of the political radar by having the AFT ban them via regulation. (1) That way next year the Dems in the House can pass a bill to ban them and the Repubs in the Senate and Trump can say, "No need, we've already banned them." The vast majority of the antis (non-professional antis) and low information voters will think, "Ah. Thank God that's been done." He's effectively KILLED the antis' ability to ban bumpstocks by law.

Now, (2) bumpstocks can come back in a few years (remember the "Sunset" provision in the '94 AWB?), once the political winds have calmed down by just having the ATF repeal their regulation. (3) OR, they can come back in a few years once a Trump packed SCOTUS hands down a ruling that will allow a lawsuit against the regulation to prevail (a regulatory ban may not even pass intermediate scrutiny whereas a legislative ban may -- I don't know if the standards are different).

(4) Last, this will help Trump and (5) pro-gun congressional candidates win elections/reelection come 2020 by removing them as a political tar baby. That will prevent Dems from winning (and that prevent them from passing a bunch of anti bills/laws).

(6) After being reelected in 2020, Trump will, if Repubs get elected/reelected in numbers sufficient to maintain control of the Senate, be able to add even more judges to the federal Courts of Appeal and SCOTUS.

Sure, it may suck for some of us temporarily. But for our 2nd A RKBA in the long-term, this is brilliant.
Plus some over zealous Trump resister will obviously run to the 9th circuit and challenge Trump on this. I'm expecting Kameltoe to be all over this as prelude to her Presidential run in 2020 "
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We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
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Old 12-04-2018, 5:55 PM
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It is a brilliant move by President Trump and he has outmaneuvered you democrats again.
Gave you nothing and even shut up big democrat media, over this anyway.

BTW democrat trolls like you are so easy to spot. Nice try though!
Gave them nothing, except labeled a fire arms stock a machine gun, and created a path forward for Democrats to use the ATF to redefine parts as machine guns. I'm sure the next Democrat president won't misuse it against ARs....


Jesus you people are delusional. If this was Obama you'd be screaming to hell and back, but because it's "your team" you are prefectly ok with it. Just shows you won't hold Republicans accountable for what they do. And people wonder why the HPA or CCW reciprocation failed. Because you don't care what they do, as long as they have an (R) next to their name. You're as bad as party line Democrat voters. Except they at least get something they want when they vote that way.

Don't forget that the same GOA that praised trump also has prepared a lawsuit against his actions. Can you say cognitive dissonance?
https://www.gunowners.org/goa-readie...-stock-ban.htm

And you can save your name calling response for someone that gives a ****.
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Old 12-04-2018, 6:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
This notion that this is some brilliant maneuver by Trump is ridiculous.
I agree. The notion Trump is 4-d chess-ing by playing the long game for bump stocks is ridiculous. He's doing the most politically advantageous thing. He could careless about bump stocks. Deflect the blame onto someone else in order to keep gun owners off his back, but appease the majority of Americans who would prefer to see them banned. I think if he could make a decision without political backlash he would outright ban them.

Quote:
Guess some of us here are still going to be fooled by trump and his lies, probably forever.
That's politics. Anyone who believes there's an honest politician is high, naive, or delusional. I will take Trump's lying aka being a politician over any democrat.
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Old 12-04-2018, 6:40 PM
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That's politics. Anyone who believes there's an honest politician is high, naive, or delusional. I will take Trump's lying aka being a politician over any democrat.
**** yeah! Drain that swamp baby! Oh, wait are we not doing that anymore? We are letting fungus fester and grow because it's an (R)? What about RINOs? Are they ok now too? I mean they aren't Democrats.
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Old 12-05-2018, 9:27 AM
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Looks like there are people who believe in gun rights, and those who only believe in it a little bit here.
  #72  
Old 12-06-2018, 6:12 PM
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Holy moly. Is this a gun rights forum or the Donald Trump Fanboi Club?

Not only is this an Administrative Agency overturning an established interpretation of existing law -- a law that the hated Obama Administration interpreted correctly on at least three occasions.

But the really significant part of this law, which should trouble even the dimmest of gun owners is that there is a limited period of time to either turn bump stocks in or destroy them. There is no indication of compensation. The Fifth Amendment to the Constitution provides that property may not be seized of taken without just compensation. Now let's just play regular chess. What happens when standard capacity magazines are banned? What about assault weapons? Turn them in or destroy them! No compensation.

That four dimensional chess remark and the true believers who swallow that wholesale are a bad joke. This is a trial balloon to see if people will BOHICA as long as the person confiscating guns has an R after his name. Trump serves the wealthy and the rich do not want an armed populace. The elites are always trying to disarm the proles. So many of you are falling for it -- SAD.
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  #73  
Old 12-06-2018, 6:15 PM
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New flash the ATF works for whatever party is in power
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Take off the tinfoil hat with the idea ATF will ban AR rifles with a republican president and senate.
So what the hell do you think could happen with a Democrat president? And I'm ignorant? Jesus, this is the arguement people are making. That the ATF, under direction of the executive branch of the government is BYPASSING the legislative branch. The fact that's it's "THE 2As BIGGEST ADVOCATE" is just that much more insulting. But you, and people like you are perfectly ok with this constitutional violation, because it's "your" team doing it.

I was pissed when Obama did it, and I'm pissed when Trump does it.

Quote:
They {the ATF} do not need any law to accomplish whatever the party decides
And you don't think that's a problem? That an unelected government agency can just redefine what Congress already defined?

How about this question, are you upset with the DOJ regs regarding bullet button AWs? Are you upset that they are changing definitions that the state legislature has already defined, so they can ensnare more gun owners? That's exactly what the ATF is doing. Congress already defined what a machine gun is. Now, the ATF (under direction of the executive branch) is changing the definition. That's not how our government works.

Which would be in direct contradiction with this statement:

Quote:
The ATF under Trump is honorable
  #74  
Old 12-07-2018, 6:30 AM
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Originally Posted by herccheif View Post
So what the hell do you think could happen with a Democrat president? And I'm ignorant? Jesus, this is the arguement people are making. That the ATF, under direction of the executive branch of the government is BYPASSING the legislative branch. The fact that's it's "THE 2As BIGGEST ADVOCATE" is just that much more insulting. But you, and people like you are perfectly ok with this constitutional violation, because it's "your" team doing it.

I was pissed when Obama did it, and I'm pissed when Trump does it.


And you don't think that's a problem? That an unelected government agency can just redefine what Congress already defined?

How about this question, are you upset with the DOJ regs regarding bullet button AWs? Are you upset that they are changing definitions that the state legislature has already defined, so they can ensnare more gun owners? That's exactly what the ATF is doing. Congress already defined what a machine gun is. Now, the ATF (under direction of the executive branch) is changing the definition. That's not how our government works.

Which would be in direct contradiction with this statement:
Im am not advocating or condoning a govt agency that is under the direction of the executive branch and who operate w/o any real rules or laws. Im merely pointing out that a ban a slob stocks is irreverent as a slippery slope to ban other legitimate firearm modifications or devices.

DOJ banning bullet button is a perfect example of what I am referring to in that these agencies do not require any type of legislation to interpret in the most bizarre fashion whatever the party in power wants .

It is extremely stupid to bash our friends over slob stocks! Do you hear of democrats ever complaining about how something is wrong when done by their own agency! No of course not, because they know the agenda.

we have a great 2A champions in Donald Trump and our Republican Party. It is extremely stupid to try and elect democrats because of a slob stock rule.
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  #75  
Old 12-07-2018, 7:22 AM
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If a Republican did not ban new machine guns we would not be fighting for bump stocks. Both parties hate the 2A. We just get to choose if we want to be kicked in the nuts or stabbed in the back.

The 4d chess essay is the work of a very creative mind. Or seriously delusional. Either way it is a good work of fiction.
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Old 12-07-2018, 7:30 AM
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Originally Posted by audiophil2 View Post
If a Republican did not ban new machine guns we would not be fighting for bump stocks. Both parties hate the 2A. We just get to choose if we want to be kicked in the nuts or stabbed in the back.

The 4d chess essay is the work of a very creative mind. Or seriously delusional. Either way it is a good work of fiction.


Maybe your a little too young or have not read anything on what it was like prior to FOPA passed by GOP and signed by President Reagan in 1986 !
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017...for-lawful-use

Now you should apologize to us for your ignorance because that miserable democrat slug Hughes NJ added that just before the bill was signed. Gun culture people debate whether Reagan even knew it was there !
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Last edited by ja308; 12-07-2018 at 7:43 AM..
  #77  
Old 12-07-2018, 7:45 AM
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Pro-gun members of Congress have introduced legislation to protect travelers who are transporting firearms interstate for lawful purposes.

The first such bill was H.R. 358, filed by Rep. H. Morgan Griffith (R-VA) and 38 cosponsors in February. Joining him this week was Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT), who introduced S.618 on Tuesday.

Unlike pending national reciprocity bills, this legislation deals specifically with transporting unloaded firearms, rather than for carry on one’s person en route.

Both bills would reform important provisions of the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) intended to protect the right of law-abiding gun owners to transport firearms throughout our nation. Yet in the years since its enactment, this law has too often been ignored by anti-gun local officials and effectively gutted by the courts. H.R. 358 and S. 618 would rewrite the law to implement the outcome Congress intended when it was passed more than 25 years ago.

FOPA’s safe transport provisions (codified at 18 U.S.C. § 926A) guarantee the right of a law-abiding person to transport an unloaded firearm between two locations where he or she may legally possess it, regardless of state or local laws along the route of travel that would otherwise prohibit such conduct. Under the current law, the gun must be cased or otherwise not readily accessible.

Most states have never had a problem with this law. However, both before and after enactment of FOPA, gun owners have had serious problems lawfully traveling in two states in particular: New York (especially New York City) and New Jersey. Rather than recognize Congressional intent to protect the rights of Americans traveling with legally owned firearms, these jurisdictions have used overly restrictive state licensing laws to harass and persecute nonresident gun owners.

For example:

In 2004, the Port Authority Police Department (PAPD) arrested John Torraco at LaGuardia Airport for illegal possession of a firearm. Torraco, an attorney and law professor from Florida, had properly stored his legally owned, unloaded handgun in his checked luggage. However, when he declared the firearm to the counter agent (as required by federal law) he was arrested and charged for possessing the handgun without a New York handgun license.
In 2005, William Winstanley, a New York State resident, was detained at John F. Kennedy International Airport when he attempted to check a handgun in his luggage, again in compliance with the requirements of § 926A. Winstanley was not arrested, but his travel was delayed for several days while he proved that he was in compliance with federal law.
In 2005, Greg Revell, a Utah resident, was flying through Newark Liberty International Airport to his final destination in Pennsylvania. However, his flight into New Jersey was late, which caused him to miss his connecting flight. Revell was forced to collect his baggage and spend the night in a Newark hotel. When he attempted to recheck his baggage the following morning, he declared his unloaded handgun to the counter agent. PAPD officers arrested Revell for illegal possession of a handgun and ammunition under New Jersey law. Revell spent three days in jail before he was able to make bail.
Each of these gun owners filed a civil rights suit in federal court to vindicate their rights under FOPA. In each case, however, the courts interpreted the law to deprive travelers who comply with its provisions of any effective remedy after they’ve been arrested or detained by police for violation of state or local law.

Since that time, many other cases have resulted in guilty pleas to reduced charges, civil penalties, seized firearms, and delayed travel in situations where FOPA should have provided protection.

While cases of inappropriate arrest or detention are most common at the New York City airports, they are not limited to those locations. In Albany, NY, detention of gun owners and confiscation of firearms have been reported by persons traveling in full compliance with § 926A. The NRA has been forced to repeatedly warn gun owners that they should avoid using New York or New Jersey airports when traveling with firearms.

To correct this situation, the pending bills would:

Expand the protections afforded travelers to include “staying in temporary lodging overnight, stopping for food, fuel, vehicle maintenance, an emergency, medical treatment, and any other activity incidental” to the trip.
Put the burden of proof clearly on the state to show that a traveler did not meet the requirements of § 926A, rather than allow travelers to be arrested on local charges and forced to raise § 926A before a judge as an “affirmative defense.”
Make clear that transportation of firearms, their magazines, and ammunition is federally protected.
Make clear that violation of the right to transport firearms is judicially enforceable as a federal civil right, with attorney’s fees available to victorious plaintiffs in civil suits, as well as to defendants who prevail in criminal cases after raising a FOPA defense.

The NRA thanks Rep. Griffith and Sen. Hatch for their leadership in this vitally important effort and urges their respective chambers to take up the bills as soon as possible.

A constitutional “right” to arms that can be vetoed at every state, county, or municipal border is no right at all.

IN THIS ARTICLE
FIREARMS OWNERS PROTECTION ACT (FOPA) INTERSTATE TRANSPORT INTERSTATE TRANSPORTATION OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION ORRIN HATCH MORGAN GRIFFITH
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Old 12-07-2018, 7:58 AM
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I’m still waiting for real news about a bump stock ban. People getting so worked up over fake news, almost as if there was a plan to cause supporters of constitutional rights to viciously attack each other.
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Old 12-07-2018, 8:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Maybe your a little too young or have not read anything on what it was like prior to FOPA passed by GOP and signed by President Reagan in 1986 !
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017...for-lawful-use

Now you should apologize to us for your ignorance because that miserable democrat slug Hughes NJ added that just before the bill was signed. Gun culture people debate whether Reagan even knew it was there !
I am too young but I have read it and watched the vote since it can be found on YouTube. At the age of 18 I was reading contracts for buying cars and at 26 for buying houses. If you base your argument on a President not doing due diligence before he signs a paper then who is the ignorant one? Caveat emptor.

Btw, which Republican governor was it that crippled CA loaded open carry laws? I am ignorant as to who that guy was but I think he was an actor. He might have even moved on to a higher political office afterward. If he made it to the presidency I wonder if he ever did anything just as devestating on a national level to the 2nd Amendment.

Ignorance is bliss.
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Old 12-07-2018, 8:16 AM
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Originally Posted by audiophil2 View Post
I am too young but I have read it and watched the vote since it can be found on YouTube. At the age of 18 I was reading contracts for buying cars and at 26 for buying houses. If you base your argument on a President not doing due diligence before he signs a paper then who is the ignorant one? Caveat emptor.

Btw, which Republican governor was it that crippled CA loaded open carry laws? I am ignorant as to who that guy was but I think he was an actor. He might have even moved on to a higher political office afterward. If he made it to the presidency I wonder if he ever did anything just as devestating on a national level to the 2nd Amendment.

Ignorance is bliss.
BTW I got you pegged as an anti gun democrat who is following the advice of Rahm Emanuel who told his lemmings to try and divide Trumps base!
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