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  #1  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:09 AM
jacknicholson jacknicholson is offline
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Default DOJ records help!

Looking for assistance,

I recently purchased a hand gun at Greta's Guns and got a 'denied' notice from the California DOJ. It said I have a felony on my record. I did a live scan previously and I did see they had a felony conviction from 40 years ago but I knew it was wrong as soon as I saw it.

I filed a Proposition 47 reduction in April of this year with the Superior Court of Los Angeles but instead of getting a court date I got a letter saying 'A review of your case indicates that you were convicted of Section 459 as a misdemeanor. However, the record with the Department of Justice reflected the case as a felony and the Court has sent an update to the Department of Justice to amend your record.'

I have been trying to contact the DOJ to find out what the status is on amending the record but there is no clear way to contact someone. Their phone numbers are all automated response and their contact page simply gives an automated response saying they can't give legal advice. Very frustrating. I did send a certified letter to the DOJ containing copies of the letter from Superior Court, sent on August 4th.

Any suggestions for next steps?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide,
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:28 AM
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Have patience when dealing with a government entity or hire a good lawyer.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:29 AM
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Wait 30 - 60 days, do another livescan. They're not real fast over at DOJ getting things done. A lot of patience will be required as you sort this out.

Good luck!
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:40 AM
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Your probably going to need a certified copy from the court, just a letter may not cut it. Keep in mind that the record error may not be in Ca, as it could also be in the FBI database in error.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:43 AM
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Good point - this error has probably been transmitted to FBI NCIC. You should also get your FBI rap sheet.

If you use Option 2 - an 'approved channeler' you will get the record back very fast, perhaps in hours.
https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/id...summary-checks
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Old 08-15-2017, 2:21 PM
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OK, Here is what I will be doing:
1. Contact Superior Court and request certified copy of the notice to DOJ.
2. Exercise patience because I don't have $$$ for a lawyer, which would likely require patience as well.
3. Looking into Option 2

Thanks for the very fast responses.

Will post status updates for the benefit of others.

Cheers,
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Old 08-17-2017, 1:25 PM
jacknicholson jacknicholson is offline
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Update!

Getting the runaround at Superior Court but not giving up.

Went to Identogo in Glendale to get finger prints rolled and request FBI background/history. Had results in my email in less than an hour and the results did not show a felony.

Seems like California Department of Justice is the only entity with the wrong data. And the only reason my DROS was denied.

Will keep on the Superior Cout to get the certified document, multiple copies if I can.

Trying to exercise patience,
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  #8  
Old 08-17-2017, 1:33 PM
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You should also get a certified copy of the court record that shows you were convicted of a misdemeanor (the plea, the adjudication of guilt, whatever document it was). That is probably just as important to have.

And you should file for a 1203.4 expungement, and get that misdemeanor off your record. You can usually do that yourself. The court where you were convicted should have info, most usually have a wesbsite with all the forms you need and a step by step guide.

Good luck and let us know what happens!
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Old 08-17-2017, 2:05 PM
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SkyHawk, Thanks for the reply. I will do as suggested.

On a side note: I just spoke with Greta's Guns again and they suggested I go ahead and do another LiveScan. Not sure how I can contest the records by doing that. Doesn't it just produce a copy of the current rap sheet?
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacknicholson View Post
Looking for assistance,

I recently purchased a hand gun at Greta's Guns and got a 'denied' notice from the California DOJ. It said I have a felony on my record. I did a live scan previously and I did see they had a felony conviction from 40 years ago but I knew it was wrong as soon as I saw it.

I filed a Proposition 47 reduction in April of this year with the Superior Court of Los Angeles but instead of getting a court date I got a letter saying 'A review of your case indicates that you were convicted of Section 459 as a misdemeanor. However, the record with the Department of Justice reflected the case as a felony and the Court has sent an update to the Department of Justice to amend your record.'

I have been trying to contact the DOJ to find out what the status is on amending the record but there is no clear way to contact someone. Their phone numbers are all automated response and their contact page simply gives an automated response saying they can't give legal advice. Very frustrating. I did send a certified letter to the DOJ containing copies of the letter from Superior Court, sent on August 4th.

Any suggestions for next steps?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide,
Yup, Contact your local Senators office, they will call the DOJ records review dept. and get you sorted out. Also ask them to make sure DOJ also updates your Federal criminal history to show the amended conviction. This process is faster & far less painful the dealing with DOJ time bandits.
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Old 08-29-2017, 8:19 AM
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I used the 'contact us' form on the website of Senator Bob Hertzberg. He is in the Van Nuys district where Superior Court is. But after that, I found Senator Henry Stern in my home district, so I will call his office to see if they can help.
Thanks,
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Old 08-29-2017, 9:29 AM
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Doesn't one of the questions on the yellow form mention conviction of any crime where the sentence is one year or more?

"Second degree (SD) or “commercial burglary” can be charged as a felony or a misdemeanor. The penalty for a charge of SD misdemeanor burglary is one year imprisonment in the county jail and a maximum fine of $1,000. SD felony burglary carries a two to three year sentence in a California State Prison and a maximum fine of $10,000."
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Old 08-30-2017, 7:30 AM
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Win231, To be clear, the conviction 40 years ago was a misdemeanor with no jail time at all and no fine.

The good news is, Superior Court records and FBI database reflect the records correctly. Only the DOJ is wrong.

As losageleno suggested, I contacted my Senator's office yesterday. They said they would reach out to their contacts at the DOJ and I should give it a few days.

So far I have followed the suggestions of other members and really appreciate their helpfulness.
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Old 08-30-2017, 8:29 AM
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According to the 4473 form, it does not matter whether you were convicted of a felony or misdemeanor or whether or not you served any jail time. The question reads:

"Have you been convicted in any court of a crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if the judge actually gave you a shorter sentence?"
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win231 View Post
Doesn't one of the questions on the yellow form mention conviction of any crime where the sentence is one year or more?

"Second degree (SD) or “commercial burglary” can be charged as a felony or a misdemeanor. The penalty for a charge of SD misdemeanor burglary is one year imprisonment in the county jail and a maximum fine of $1,000. SD felony burglary carries a two to three year sentence in a California State Prison and a maximum fine of $10,000."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Win231 View Post
According to the 4473 form, it does not matter whether you were convicted of a felony or misdemeanor or whether or not you served any jail time. The question reads:

"Have you been convicted in any court of a crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if the judge actually gave you a shorter sentence?"
Gents,

Please check out the provisions of Penal Code section 17(b). Here is the text:

(b) When a crime is punishable, in the discretion of the court, either by imprisonment in the state prison or imprisonment in a county jail under the provisions of subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by fine or imprisonment in the county jail, it is a misdemeanor for all purposes under the following circumstances:

(1) After a judgment imposing a punishment other than imprisonment in the state prison or imprisonment in a county jail under the provisions of subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

(2) When the court, upon committing the defendant to the Division of Juvenile Justice, designates the offense to be a misdemeanor.

(3) When the court grants probation to a defendant without imposition of sentence and at the time of granting probation, or on application of the defendant or probation officer thereafter, the court declares the offense to be a misdemeanor.

(4) When the prosecuting attorney files in a court having jurisdiction over misdemeanor offenses a complaint specifying that the offense is a misdemeanor, unless the defendant at the time of his or her arraignment or plea objects to the offense being made a misdemeanor, in which event the complaint shall be amended to charge the felony and the case shall proceed on the felony complaint.

(5) When, at or before the preliminary examination or prior to filing an order pursuant to Section 872, the magistrate determines that the offense is a misdemeanor, in which event the case shall proceed as if the defendant had been arraigned on a misdemeanor complaint.

On the surface, section 17(b) doesn't harmonize very well with federal statutes defining a felony. That confuses a lot of folks.

The best simple summary of how section 17(b) works is this: A "wobbler" is a felony, and nothing less than a felony, until is "wobbles." Then it's a misdemeanor, and nothing more than a misdemeanor, from that point on.

Many folks get nutted up over the federal language on the Form 4473 asking "Have you been convicted in any court of a crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if the judge actually gave you a shorter sentence?." I'll leave it for the lawyers on this forum to hash that one out in cases where the judge "wobbles the offense". That's mostly an academic question. It's extremely rare for a judge to "wobble" an offense. In nearly every case, it's the prosecuting attorney who "wobbles" the offense at the time charges are filed.

When that occurs, the maximum penalty that the judge can impose is for a misdemeanor. The judge lacks authority to "unwobble" the charge to impose a felony penalty. In practice, the most commonly encountered misdemeanor "wobbler" cases do harmonize well with the 4473 language.
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2017, 8:36 PM
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Hello jacknicholson. I have a question for you, as I had a 459 many years ago. And I had the same issue your experiencing right now. Sorry if I missed this above, but did the case start as a felony, but reduced before sentencing?
In my case this is what happened. And the courts records showed misdemeanor, but live scan said felony. What happens was that the courts never sent the proper information to the DOJ after the case closed. It has since been cleared up, and I went to re dros 4 days ago. So far so good...finger crossed. So I'm wondering if the same happened to you
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Old 08-31-2017, 8:19 AM
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brown805, Sounds very similar to what I am experiencing. Hope to hear back soon on the DOJ record amendment.

I am also filling the 1203.4 expungement, as suggested by SkyHawk. Have an appointment with legal next Tuesday to get this process going.

Would have started this long ago had I known earlier.

Good luck with your DROS.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:38 AM
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Getting "nutted up"! That is a great example of the effective use of jargon, albeit not exactly professional.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:02 AM
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Update from Senator's office:

I checked with the DOJ this morning and they confirmed receipt of your forms and information.

They added, “Please note that record challenges are processed in date order received and there is no mechanism to expedite the process. Upon receipt, the Department of Justice (DOJ) will review the record and inquire with the appropriate reporting agency if necessary. This may take some time to accept, verify, and process documents in order to amend a record.”

---------------

Exercising patients now,
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Old 08-31-2017, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacknicholson View Post
Update from Senator's office:

I checked with the DOJ this morning and they confirmed receipt of your forms and information.

They added, “Please note that record challenges are processed in date order received and there is no mechanism to expedite the process. Upon receipt, the Department of Justice (DOJ) will review the record and inquire with the appropriate reporting agency if necessary. This may take some time to accept, verify, and process documents in order to amend a record.”

---------------

Exercising patients now,
I also had the 1203.4 expungement along with the reduction. Neither were ever sent to the DOJ from the courts. I first drosed and challenged back in March! And still no amendment letter. But, seeing that is was something that wasn't done electronically from court to DOJ, I found out last week that the DOJ records were updated with the correct information in April! But they are different units so they tell me. So I didn't know until my patients ran out and frequently emailed the DOJ. The got a call from a supervisor wh I was very helpful.
So hopefully yours is as simple as mine was.
Good luck to you. Keep us updated!
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Old 09-18-2017, 2:55 PM
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Still waiting on the firearms record review. Tried calling 916-227-3835 but the number is just an automated response that doesn't help answer the question: 'What is the status of my record review and when might I expect a response?'

Anyone happen to have a number for DOJ Firearms Record Review that actually gets answered by a real person.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacknicholson View Post

Anyone happen to have a number for DOJ Firearms Record Review that actually gets answered by a real person.
Sorry Jack. DOJ has a great many phone numbers. Unfortunately, none of them gets answered by "a real person".

They are only answered by tax sucking public sector union member parasites. That move at a pace that makes glaciers appear to be moving at warp speed.
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Old 09-21-2017, 7:54 AM
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I sent a few emails to the DOJ requesting status on my review and I got a call from them yesterday. The nice lady at the DOJ told me it usually takes 30 days for the review process and I should be getting the results in the mail within the next couple weeks. Can hardly wait,

Got home and checked the mailbox, as usual. There it was, an envelope from the Superior Court with a signed Order For Dismissal, 1203.4. Happy days! Going to scan this document and make a couple copies just to be on the safe side.

Any other steps needed or do I just keep these documents secure?

Oh, and I called Greta's Guns who said to call them back after I get that letter from the DOJ and they would submit another DROS. The cost will be $35.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win231 View Post
Doesn't one of the questions on the yellow form mention conviction of any crime where the sentence is one year or more?
No. A "year or more" is not asked, but if the sentence was "more than a year" is asked.

Quote:
Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime for which a judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:18 PM
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I am going through a similar situation. I hired a lawyer after 2 years and 10 grand found out that it was a mistake on a minute order. In march of 2017 my lawyer sent the DOJ a letter with copies and Fresno county superior court sent copies to the DOJ as well. A few weeks later I received a letter that DOJ had received my documentation and would review it shortly. I was told within 90 days. 90 days passed I called all of the DOJ numbers making every selection possible. The only one I got a human being was the one for court or law enforcement personnel. Of course they got upset but I told them that I tried every line possible and could not get a human on the phone. They suggested that I try and purchase a firearm every month to see if it was off of my record. I don't feel like wasting the DROS fee every month so I am stuck in limbo as well.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:20 PM
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What email did you use to email the DOJ? Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-21-2017, 2:41 PM
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I just used the email section of the 'contact us' page on the DOJ firearms site. Scroll down when you see the page. click here
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Old 09-26-2017, 9:09 PM
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so if the lawyer got the pc 17, and the 1203.4 granted. and forwarded and have the carbon copy of the court paperwork, the probation dept saying both the the reduction and expungment were granted, is there more paperwork? different official certified orders? etc?
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:19 PM
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I can only assume if a lawyer is used they would do everything needed to completely resolve the issue. However, I am doing all this myself and so far all seems to be going well. Won't know for sure until I get the letter back from DOJ Firearms Review.

It does appear the DOJ doesn't automatically update records based on final judgment from Superior Court and don't assume the DOJ will do an amendment just because the court said they sent it to them. Mine was sent months ago and nothing was happening until I did the DOJ forms and livescan which starts the firearms review process allowing you to complete a form they send back to you. You send that form back to them with some backup documentation requesting records get corrected. I'm told the firearms review typically takes 30 days and then you get a letter with their review results, I am expecting mine any day now.
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:40 PM
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The firearms eligibility (AB165) and the live scan (8016RR or something like that) will return the same results whichever you choose. Both take typically less than 2 weeks to get the results. Then you'll need to appeal either if your record is not amended. The length of the appeals process seems to be up to FOREVER right now. If you look over in the Prop 64 thread there are many of us waiting for appeals to go through. Some as long as 6 months now.
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Old 10-10-2017, 3:42 PM
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Got the 1203.4 back from Superior Court and sent a copy of that to the DOJ with a new records dispute form. Just another iron in the fire but not expecting to hear back anytime soon.
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Old 10-10-2017, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacknicholson View Post
Got the 1203.4 back from Superior Court and sent a copy of that to the DOJ with a new records dispute form. Just another iron in the fire but not expecting to hear back anytime soon.
A 1203.4 isn't going to do you any good. Please note the following excerpt from the statute:

Dismissal of an accusation or information pursuant to this section does not permit a person to own, possess, or have in his or her custody or control any firearm or prevent his or her conviction under Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) of Division 9 of Title 4 of Part 6
It's the reduction under PC 17(b) that will normally restore your firearms rights, or reduce the period of disability.
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Old 10-10-2017, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
A 1203.4 isn't going to do you any good. Please note the following excerpt from the statute:

Dismissal of an accusation or information pursuant to this section does not permit a person to own, possess, or have in his or her custody or control any firearm or prevent his or her conviction under Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) of Division 9 of Title 4 of Part 6
It's the reduction under PC 17(b) that will normally restore your firearms rights, or reduce the period of disability.
Yes, the pc 17(b) is the key. It was in my situation. Had I not gotten the pc 17(b) done with the 1203.4 I would still be fighting to get my rights back. Don't quote me in this but I heard there are situations where just the 1203.4 is enough but I don't know in which situations only that works. I know for me personally I had to have both.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:44 AM
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Great News!
Got a letter from the DOJ yesterday saying my record has been amended.
Events in summary after my initial post:
* Have patience when dealing with a government entity or hire a good lawyer. - I ignored the 'hire a good lawyer' part.
* Wait for 30 - 60 days, do another livescan. They're not real fast over at DOJ getting things done. A lot of patience will be required as you sort this out. - I did this.
* Your probably going to need a certified copy from the court, just a letter may not cut it. Keep in mind that the record error may not be in Ca, as it could also be in the FBI database in error. - I did check the FBI db and it was already correct.
* You should also get a certified copy of the court record that shows you were convicted of a misdemeanor And you should file for a 1203.4 expungement - I did both of these and sent certified copies to the DOJ.
* Yup, Contact your local Senators office - I did this also.

The letter from the DOJ references the certified letters I sent them including the dates but does not reference any correspondence from the Superior Court. I'm good with it because the end result is the record has been corrected.

Thanks for all the help! and good luck to anyone else dealing with a similar situation.

Cheers
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Old 12-08-2017, 5:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacknicholson View Post
Looking for assistance,

I recently purchased a hand gun at Greta's Guns and got a 'denied' notice from the California DOJ. It said I have a felony on my record. I did a live scan previously and I did see they had a felony conviction from 40 years ago but I knew it was wrong as soon as I saw it.

I filed a Proposition 47 reduction in April of this year with the Superior Court of Los Angeles but instead of getting a court date I got a letter saying 'A review of your case indicates that you were convicted of Section 459 as a misdemeanor. However, the record with the Department of Justice reflected the case as a felony and the Court has sent an update to the Department of Justice to amend your record.'

I have been trying to contact the DOJ to find out what the status is on amending the record but there is no clear way to contact someone. Their phone numbers are all automated response and their contact page simply gives an automated response saying they can't give legal advice. Very frustrating. I did send a certified letter to the DOJ containing copies of the letter from Superior Court, sent on August 4th.

Any suggestions for next steps?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide,
The Courts communicate with The DOJ with form JUS8715
You may want to see if it has been sent. The Supreme Court in your County
MIGHT have online access and you may view your criminal record online.

With Prop 64 its taking about year for updates, as far I as I know.
I m not 100% sure Form JUS8715 would be used in your case, but it might be.
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  #36  
Old 12-08-2017, 6:25 AM
909bobby 909bobby is offline
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40 years ago or not, you shouldn’t have committed a burglary if you wanted to own a gun. Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.
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Old 12-08-2017, 6:43 AM
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Great thread. Lots of little details to help
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  #38  
Old 12-08-2017, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacknicholson View Post
Great News!
Got a letter from the DOJ yesterday saying my record has been amended.
...

Thanks for all the help! and good luck to anyone else dealing with a similar situation.

Cheers
Good job, & Congrats!!
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  #39  
Old 12-08-2017, 5:17 PM
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Read whatt RickD said about a 1203.4 reduction not restoring firearms rights.

A 1203.4 isn't going to do you any good. Please note the following excerpt from the statute:

Quote:
Dismissal of an accusation or information pursuant to this section does not permit a person to own, possess, or have in his or her custody or control any firearm or prevent his or her conviction under Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) of Division 9 of Title 4 of Part 6
It's the reduction under PC 17(b) that will normally restore your firearms rights, or reduce the period of disability.
If all you have accomplished it to get the DOJ to amend your record to reflect the 1203.4 it isn't going to do you any good and Rick is almost always right.
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