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#161
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#162
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69Mach1 munkeeboi TURBOELKY antix2 WTSGDYBBR tujungatoes jmpgnr24K Last edited by 69Mach1; 07-13-2010 at 11:33 PM.. |
#163
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Not always practical, particularly on a website that has a mobile site option. You can't see the picture, you think you might want the item so you tag it until you can get to a real computer where it's practical to ask your question or view photos.
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#164
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1) Thread is locked except for the OP. NO ONE posts in a sale thread except the OP. Eliminates confusion about what you can/can't post, shilling, etc. All negotiations, questions, etc. go through PM. Will also eliminate bent feelings about who was first, I posted but didn't get it, etc. The OP should be fair and honest, but you can't regulate character. That's what the iTrader ratings are for. I see lots of complaints, but rarely a negative posting when someone certainly deserves it. 2) One OP bump every 12 hours. After the 12 hours, the OP can post answers to questions. The only exception would be if it's sold and SPF or SOLD is posted. Violate and your thread gets deleted. Period. This can be adjusted, but 12 seems about right since no one else will be posting. 3) If no bump from OP after 24 (36? 48?) hours, post gets deleted. Period. Keeps the threads clean which seems to be the goal. If the OP doesn't care or pay attention to his sale, why should we? Maybe the old threads can be placed in the archive (see below). 4) If OP violates a posting rule (no price, no location, etc), thread gets deleted. Period. No warnings, admonishments, etc. Just delete the thread. The mod can PM the OP with the reason. Then they can resubmit with corrections and learn a lesson at the same time. 5) No posting in the sale threads until you have 30 days at CG. This problem could probably be avoided if rules 2-4 above were enforced. Eliminates the one-day, hit-and-run sellers that could care less about rules or our community. Also eliminates the bogus posts to get to a minimum post count. If you are still around after 30 days, welcome! So you miss a couple of good deals from noobs. What you don't know, you won't miss. Maybe there can be an archive area where expired posts are stored. These posts can be completely locked, but you could still search them for reference data and PM the OP if you had a question. That eliminates the 2-year-old dead-thread resurrection from (mostly) noobs - "Hey, is this still for sale?" and it keeps the active threads clean. 6) I want everything I post to sell in ONE HOUR or less for twice what I asked for. And a yacht. And kids that don't give me grief. And more hair. And $5 bulk pack .22's. And... Ok, I'm done...
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It cannot be inherited, nor can it ever be purchased. You and no one alive can buy it for any price. It is impossible to rent and cannot be lent. You alone and our own have earned it with...Your sweat, blood and lives. You own it forever. The title is....."United States Marine". |
#165
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Dont get me wrong I'm not complaining about haveing to adjust and follow the new rules. It's just that members who have been here for a while should know better, and should be subject to swifter and harder punishment for not helping the situation. Just my opinion on the subject.
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#167
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Selling guns on Craigslist is easier?? I'm going back to bed. I woke up in the wrong universe.
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It cannot be inherited, nor can it ever be purchased. You and no one alive can buy it for any price. It is impossible to rent and cannot be lent. You alone and our own have earned it with...Your sweat, blood and lives. You own it forever. The title is....."United States Marine". |
#168
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For the small stuff I might sell, CL is perfect.I'll just end up frustrated when my post gets deleted here because I forgot that I cannot comment on a sale thread, unless it's after midnight on the full moon and the stars align with Jupiter. Even then I can only type with my left hand, and I have to say "mother may I" before I hit post. |
#171
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Can anyone say over regulation? No offense guys but coming from a group that mostly beleaves in small government and personnal responsability, WHy are we regulating things so much? I just got erased for putting a pm sent on a for sale thread with what I was interested in buying. What was the harm? Really! I think the new rules are getting a little over regulatory. I can understand having rules and that is not what I'm basing my diagreement on.
Why Pm sents are helpfull. You know that the person posting is trying to contact the seller. Also if it has pm sent with what item they are interested in is even better. Three if seller cannot put pm's answered how do you know he is being responsable with his add/post? I read many threads where there are pms and then the seller puts pms replied still for sale. That is great than you know there is no deal pending in the back ground. Or a discussion of item. The Schilling effect. I can see the same people who constantly bump certain sellers adds. I myself have bumped adds with a nice comment. Reason is I felt the seller had a great post and wanted to show an appreciated response to putting up a fine weapon for sale. You have to admit we get alot of stuff that you just dont see everyday on here. As for the shameless schilling of adds, Make it to where a member can only bump two sales adds a week. Stops that problem. With limitation I dont think they will be so willing to waste them. Next is relax this is suppose to be a fun place! Not an internet colony of regulations and if you dont or else's. Just my 2cents! If you want to add something new to the forum ADD SPELLCHECK! I know I sure could use it. LOL |
#172
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unfortunately, it has become very popular to sell here. that's just because we are the most popular gun site in CA, other than GB. i remember when we lost the market place forums a few years ago. i'm thankful we got it back. if you don't sign on for 24 hours, and come back, you will see 15-20 "new posts" threads. tally up how many of those are sales and off topic threads.
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69Mach1 munkeeboi TURBOELKY antix2 WTSGDYBBR tujungatoes jmpgnr24K |
#173
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Bump.ttt,tag,pm sent,great seller deal with confidence,glws. Gee now I feel better! I rarely post anymore but let it be known I fully like and support the new rules. The shilling was rediculous and getting out of control.
To be honest does anyone know other gun related sales forums where the rampant shilling is allowed? It could be worse people. Gunboards only allows the op to bump their sale post after one week! As mentioned a few bad apples can ruin something for everyone. Genuine feelings of goodwill towards a interesting sale post or a gtood deal are rare. We all know it's usually someones friends bumping their stuff whether a good price a a total ripoff. This got very annoying during the ammo craze/gouge/panic. The same 3-4 people kept bumping their friends posts of Walmart ammo being sold for close to 100% more. It seems that shilling really defines the lives of a few members here. As a mod mentioned I know there was a few members that just logged in every day just to make 20 or so shills. Why? Bet if classifieds posts didn't add to post count a lot of that would have ended even w/o the new rules. Whats with the obsession with post count anyways? On every forum theres always a few people that seem to make making needless posts their lifes work. Generally boils down to this anyways, you don't like, theres many other forums to visit and to sell and buy on. When I find the rules too onerous on a forum I just deal with it or move on. |
#174
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See thats the problem, If you dont like it you just move on or keep silent. WHY? Is that not whats wrong with today? To many keep silent letting the same thing happen over and over. Why is saying something in objection so terrible. I am not advocating bashing a site by any means but to not give insight as a member to your likes and dislikes is shear madness. How else are the developers and mods to improve our site if we dont voice our opinions as members.
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#175
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#176
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"Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts." Nothing about reporting rules violations. So, it's ok then?
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It cannot be inherited, nor can it ever be purchased. You and no one alive can buy it for any price. It is impossible to rent and cannot be lent. You alone and our own have earned it with...Your sweat, blood and lives. You own it forever. The title is....."United States Marine". |
#177
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I had held hopes that this section which asks for comments and suggestions would actually accept them. That is not happening. It is true as I posted earlier (#77) that this is privately owned and that the owner had full controll over what he allows and expects of his moderators. It seems very clear what is being said. Post your suggestions. Make your comments. But if you don't like what we are going to do regardless of anything you say, leave. Now can Calgun's really afford that? Was the membership push so great the last few months that we can now strong arm members and push rules on top of rules even if most voice opposition to them and say back to them (the front line workers here), TS, leave if you don't like it? Is that where we are now? We should be working together and banding together against our real enemies. They certainly put aside any mixed feelings on other issues to ban together against our 2nd Amendment Rights. Running off good loyal members or deleting their posts, is only adding stress here. When this isn't fun and informative anymore, many will leave. I don't see that should even be considered an option CG should engage in even if it means our excited moderators need to cool their jets a bit. But you will do what you will. I know that. The owner is not likely to cut the legs out from under those he just empowered to "solve all the problems" (perhaps I should say percieved problems as it seem to be working pretty well actually). The real issues the mods should be directed to work on are not even addressed in any of these new "rules". Enjoy your powers guys. Funny how some newer members (usually the guilty ones of most of the new rules that sort of make sense) and folks who have little or NO itrader feedback sure have much to say about how the FS forums should be ran. LMAO! - not really. I am very sorry to see my favorite site take this stance. I thought I was was one of you. That you were the same as me. THat is why I was so passionate about motivating others to visit. Why I posted Calgun Cards at every range and gun store in so-cal that I visited. I cannot say, speaking just for myself, that I am as encouraged today as I read this thread. I will play along with one question to one of the mods (whom I had never had any issues with at all in the past, in fact I like him)... Mach1, tell me this... why is "so-Cal" in the location listed in a members address "unacceptable" in your mind? Why do you feel so strongly about this that you would delete a well recognized member in good standing posts or threads? Why would you or any mod send a pm to that member that was anything less than cordial or at least not rude? What power would run to someones head that would think acting like a SOB just because you can should be the first card played towards that member who didn't even see this coming? Why risk turning a good member and a strong proponate of the big picture of what is trying to be done here just a moderator could send a nastygram in erasing his posts....? Is there that many expendable members here that this is how it is going to be? I just would like clarification. Anyone without constructive comments and "in-the-know to these questions, kindly step aside or send me your SA remarks via pm. All others, feel free to add your concerns. I have an investment in CG of a personal nature and before I committ further I would like to know how this is going to play out. Is this what we can expect in other forums next?
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"I am the NRA" "I am Officer Brian Terry" "I am Ambassador Chris Stevens" "I am Kate Steinle" |
#178
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The county-specific location requirement for the FS forums has been a requirement for a LONG time. Forget the moderators, go straight to the boss:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...43&postcount=3 But seriously, this is not the great Calguns schism of 2010. This isn't the death of the 2A movement in CA. Yes, Calguns can afford to change the rules. Judging from the amount of posts since the 9th, nothing's been hurt except feelings. Then again, my post count, join date, and itrader feeback mean nothing. I don't have a personal interest in the forum. I don't moderate, I don't own it, I haven't yet contributed to the forum itself. I just enjoy firearms and browsing the marketplace for things of interest. Most items don't garner two seconds of review. However, you never know when a Ruger may unexpectedly present itself. Some of the behaviors allowed by the rules were quite annoying, however I overcame that by using the "thread start time" display feature at the bottom of the forum. As for what the owner/moderators decide to do, I'll put on my flame suit and take it like a man. I think I'm old enough to know that I'm not in charge, no matter my membership status. |
#179
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The question stands. Quote:
Again, that is not what I said. And just to clarify, the day we cannot speak out, especially when it was asked for, then the site is really already worthless. Question still stands.
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"I am the NRA" "I am Officer Brian Terry" "I am Ambassador Chris Stevens" "I am Kate Steinle" Last edited by Deal; 07-14-2010 at 4:15 PM.. |
#180
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Yes, countless threads have been locked/deleted by moderators in the past. I'm not privy to PM nastygrams. I know of the former from countless wasted hours observing the FS forums. Quote:
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But seriously, are the new rules that onerous? Is there really a need to provide affirmation to a seller's post? No. Do people need to know he is a good guy? No. Do we need to know it's a great gun at a great price? No. Do we need to know that a PM was sent/received/responded? No. Is it hard to list a county as a location? No. Is it hard to include a price? No. Is it hard to read a date stamp of a previous post and count 24 hours? No. Is it that hard to list multiple items in one thread? No. I think a team of monkeys could figure it out. But again, this is all my opinion. Take it easy Deal, I still think you're one of the good guys. |
#181
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I got a flood of emails, pm's and calls about the new rules. There are many out there who choose not to step forward for different reasons. That is ok. It is now well known to the staff here and they will do something about it or not. Simple really. I did my part in saying what I thought and why. That is what this particular part of the forum is for or so it says. As far as the location "so cal". I see the location being used to help the seller and buyer correctly decide if they are close enough to get together on a deal. I have a disclaimer in EVERY sales thread I have made here saying the I will travel to the seller's or buyers FFL of choice (I do offer my favorites around so-cal as first selections). If I am willing to drive anywhere in so-cal to make a deal then why would I want to restrict my sale/trade to north San Diego County where I live? Because it is a stupid rule that I have to? Yeah, that would be the only reason! Why does a Calgun Mod care or have the right to kill my thread if I will travel anywhere in so-cal for the right deal? Heck, I would travel most anywhere in Nor Cal for the right deal. Others do this to. I have had many deals with Nor Cals that we made it work even if one of us had to fly or drive to the other. Ok, enough. I said what I thought. I backed my postion. My mind is clear. I am not mad. Blood pressure under control. I have not one more word on the matter. Good luck with the sales to you all, BTT once more.... -Deal
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"I am the NRA" "I am Officer Brian Terry" "I am Ambassador Chris Stevens" "I am Kate Steinle" |
#183
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Really? A members input doesnt count? Than neither do your snide comments so keep them to yourself! I guess you cant read. It says thread was started for Suggestions news and updates. In that order. Where in your comment is any of the three criteria? So your post should be erased!
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#184
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Oh really i am an Anti? wow is all that you can come up with? I am a gun loving American just like everyone on CGN
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#185
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#187
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Guys,
We are certainly keeping an eye on the suggestions/comments about the new rules, just because we aren't immediately making a change based on the feedback does not mean we have discarded or ignored that feedback. Right now we're still seeing that a LOT of our members in the Marketplace have not read the new rules. As things are settling down a bit we'll look at how it's going and then we can consider what further adjustments should be made. That's when all this feedback becomes most valuable. Making changes frequently to the rules is impractical because it's challenging enough getting people to read them the first time. About the "Location issue". This has been a big deal in the Marketplace for years. There are a lot of members who will travel great distances for the right firearm, I'm aware of several times when guys flew to the other end of the state just to make a purchase. This is partly why I'm not a fan of splitting the Marketplace up based on regions. Yet somebody from El Centro going to Lancaster for an RIA1911 is pretty unlikely. We've had the county-specific rule in place for probably 4 or 5 years now and it's worked well for us, and yes it has been regularly enforced. Quote:
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#188
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I really hate this argument, it's the same one the antis use to trample our rights. "country X banned guns, we should be like them."
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#189
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These are my views, I’m not Kestryll, and I don’t make the rules myself, I don’t agree with all the rules myself, I participate in the process the same as everyone else.
Change can be painful, today is not the same as yesterday. Everyone has their own preference for how things should be, the rules aren't an ideal, but a balancing of competing interests. I think some of this angst is over the labeling of “shilling”. We had lots of friendly community bumps that weren’t malicious shilling, but ultimately still had the same effect. This is more like “cutting down on extraneous traffic.” Quote:
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Sellers need to adjust and learn to check their PMs without needing multiple reminders. Quote:
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The ultimate spectrum is that we can have no rules, or a bunch of individually tailored rule sets. What has been implemented is a broad set of rules with the goal of implementing them evenly for everyone given a limited amount of resources. This means that not everyone will be happy, that is the reality and I embrace it. FS has its own quirks and a much more specific ruleset has been developed to address those quirks. Quote:
There may be some unified opposition to the new rules because of the change, that is related to the change itself, not an actual unified opinion of all users. This change isn’t hard to predict. Look anywhere with active FS boards and see how they are run, most that have our level of traffic are more restrictive, it is a function of resources and traffic. The more traffic in the forum, the more rules you need to allow it to be that large without a small army of volunteer moderators (or without collecting fees and having paid employees) Quote:
“BUMP” “PM sent” “Nice smokepole” “great deal” “good seller” Then maybe you should re-examine what is fun for you and why you are here. Quote:
Again, you may have perceived things as working well, but that is only due to a large amount of effort and does not reflect the constant stream of complaints. That is your perception. I don’t think anyone actually enjoys having to shovel the poop heap that the FS moderation section is. Quote:
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I don’t think so, the FS forums need special rules and attention because they are about commerce, which is different from discussion, which is the main function of CGN. Quote:
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(con't in next post) Last edited by rkt88edmo; 07-15-2010 at 8:31 AM.. |
#190
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Aw, c’mon now, ya gotta respond! In closing: What is the law? No spill blood! Who makes the rules? Someone else! What happens when we break the law? What happens when the rules aren’t fair? A trip to the house of pain! |
#192
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One time. And only because you put forth so much effort in those replies. First you perhaps didn't read my first post to this matter (#77). Second, you are making a very wrong leap if you are considering the points I established as just my "perspective". Perhaps you are viewing my remarks a little too much from just your perspective. I have stated several times that I know of many very good Calgunners that see this as way too much stress and certainly do not like be pm'ed and talked to like a child or worse. I hope they dont just leave as several have stated. Unlike the staff here, I don't like to see my friends leave. I seem to be in the minority here that does not like the like it or leave comments. I don't take that position in any of my business or family/friends relations. Does it take effort, not really. No one is asking for "flowery" messages (nice wordsmithing on your part though). Just the common courtesy one human should expect from another would be just fine. You see you really all have two options everyday. You can wake up and choose to be an a-hole or not. It takes the same amount of time and effort. I could answer back to virtually every statement you made here but I am not going to do it. Just please understand, I have seen this before. When this site, regardless of your (CG's) best intentions or reasoning, becomes not fun and becomes too stressful.... your support will falter. You may not go under, you might not even care. But the main reason I am here and try to garner new supporters in the big picture does not allow for running people off with the ho-hum attitude exhibited here. If you don't like the messege, sorry. I wasn't going to see what was going on without bringing it to the owners attention. You are all going to do what you wan. I have known that from the start. You can call it what you want, but when it isn't fun, informative and stress free, people will simply start logging on somewhere else more and less here. And that is the real bottom line. -Now anyone can take what I said personally, twist my words, make things up, read my words wrong, or quote me out of context. I am fine with that. I stated what I have heard and seen. No need for me to re-type anymore. post #77 and #177 I am done with this subject. You guys figure it out.
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"I am the NRA" "I am Officer Brian Terry" "I am Ambassador Chris Stevens" "I am Kate Steinle" |
#193
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I hadn't read #77 before.
If the FS section is someone's main source of fun or community then these rules will probably kill all CGN joy for that person. I think the community has a lot more to offer than that. The FS section is a constant problem child, again, I view it as a great service, but also as tremendous resource burden. |
#194
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Are you kidding? I am very certain that this forum and certain section more than others might be the only source of interaction with other humans for some of the members here. They seem to live here. (you know who you are) LOL! Quote:
Damnit! You got me to reply again. Ok, really that is it. I have other things to worry about. Good luck.
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"I am the NRA" "I am Officer Brian Terry" "I am Ambassador Chris Stevens" "I am Kate Steinle" |
#195
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Its a fact. Other sites are more strict than CGN. To parallel it with anti's is retarded because we know there facts are wrong.
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#196
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What would Chuck Norris Do ?
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#197
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"Other sites are more strict than CGN."
Doesn't matter. Fact is, the new rules turn the marketblace from a bustling, interesting forum to a boring one filled with nothing but ttts. Decision's been made, obviously, but in my opinion, the no shilling rule sucks.
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-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 |
#198
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But in the end, the marketplace is not the main reason that CGN exists. It is but a small part of CGN.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#199
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Nothing because Chuck Norris doesn't schill
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#200
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These new rules are a joke. Im most likely not going to use this forum to sell or buy anything anymore. The new rules remind me that Im still in California and need to get out sooner than later. I know its time to leave when the #1 CA gun forum is as power controlling as the Dems in charge of our state about simple details. I thought that the #1 CA gun forum was a nice place to buy and sell things but those days are long gone with these new rules. Whats next a 10 day wait to sell a firearm threw this forum?
Last edited by SNEAKS; 07-16-2010 at 12:46 AM.. |
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