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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-06-2018, 4:32 PM
longrange1 longrange1 is offline
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Default lets talk about barrel life...

so ive shot a few different calibers...300 win mag...260rem...260rem 40* improved(this one was fun)...6mm creedmoor and now a 6.5x47 lapua(which i love and is the caliber ive settled on).

now ive been shooting long range for the last 12.5-13yrs and for the last 6-7yrs local PRS/tactical and a few F-class on top of the long range stuff and so we are clear long range is out to 1760yds or so for me...the farthest ive shot with hits is 1845yds.

in this time ive shot out 26 barrels so right at 2 per year and of those 26 barrels ive had a few bad ones...one that just would not shoot anything under an 1' at 100yds EVER and i put 900 rounds through it before pulling it...two that went bad right around 850 rounds and one i just pulled that shot ok...never anything to brag about just ok and at 1050 started throwing flyers so at 1100 it became a jack handle.

now my accuracy standard may be a little different than the average persons is...i dont expect benchrest or world record F-class accuracy(i can not shoot world record groups anyway)but i do expect a 1/2 minute or so at 1000yds on a nice day...and by nice day i mean weather wise...so for me when a barrel will no longer shoot a 10-13" 5 shot group at 1000yds and/or when it starts throwing random unexplained flyers its done.

now since everyone loves and shoots the 6.5 creed we will use it or 6.5mm cals that are close to it like the 260rem or the 6.5x47(little smaller but you guys get the idea)for this...and please no GUESSING OR REGURGITATING things youve heard or read...i know first hand how many ACCURATE rounds you can get out of most of the 308 based 6.5s but id like to hear from some of you guys what your getting out of your barrels before your seeing things go south.
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Old 08-06-2018, 5:19 PM
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Default lets talk about barrel life...

Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
so ive shot a few different calibers...300 win mag...260rem...260rem 40* improved(this one was fun)...6mm creedmoor and now a 6.5x47 lapua(which i love and is the caliber ive settled on).



now ive been shooting long range for the last 12.5-13yrs and for the last 6-7yrs local PRS/tactical and a few F-class on top of the long range stuff and so we are clear long range is out to 1760yds or so for me...the farthest ive shot with hits is 1845yds.



in this time ive shot out 26 barrels so right at 2 per year and of those 26 barrels ive had a few bad ones...one that just would not shoot anything under an 1' at 100yds EVER and i put 900 rounds through it before pulling it...two that went bad right around 850 rounds and one i just pulled that shot ok...never anything to brag about just ok and at 1050 started throwing flyers so at 1100 it became a jack handle.



now my accuracy standard may be a little different than the average persons is...i dont expect benchrest or world record F-class accuracy(i can not shoot world record groups anyway)but i do expect a 1/2 minute or so at 1000yds on a nice day...and by nice day i mean weather wise...so for me when a barrel will no longer shoot a 10-13" 5 shot group at 1000yds and/or when it starts throwing random unexplained flyers its done.



now since everyone loves and shoots the 6.5 creed we will use it or 6.5mm cals that are close to it like the 260rem or the 6.5x47(little smaller but you guys get the idea)for this...and please no GUESSING OR REGURGITATING things youve heard or read...i know first hand how many ACCURATE rounds you can get out of most of the 308 based 6.5s but id like to hear from some of you guys what your getting out of your barrels before your seeing things go south.


I can shoot small enough groups at 100, but at distance, to much influences for me to use that as my benchmark. Just my personal thing.

If the group size at 100 becomes much larger than 1/2Ē or if I loose speed and SDs (then it will open up soon), I know itís time.

I like you, have had bad barrels, some way overbore go away in <900 rounds.

<<Not sure what just happened but everything below this jus vanished >>

Quick retype: I ran my main 6.5C over 4200 and still was doing well in the match types you and I shoot. Was running 2840 with 140s and Factory 130 Prime was at 2910. Not sure why this Krieger ran so long. But it was still me missing more than the barrel.

Anyway I have a couple new barrels coming..
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Old 08-06-2018, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
now my accuracy standard may be a little different than the average persons is...i dont expect benchrest or world record F-class accuracy(i can not shoot world record groups anyway)but i do expect a 1/2 minute or so at 1000yds on a nice day...and by nice day i mean weather wise...so for me when a barrel will no longer shoot a 10-13" 5 shot group at 1000yds and/or when it starts throwing random unexplained flyers its done.
I consider a barrel "shot out" when it will no longer hold DOUBLE the accuracy of when it was new.
Since they usually shoot 1/4moa when new, your 1/2moa grouping is right in line with about where I would be pulling them off as well.

I typically see 308 sized 6.5's lasting about 2300 rounds before they lose peak accuracy.
Everyone screams and cries about that saying they shot theirs over 3000 rounds, but I guarantee you that if they know what they are doing, they were doubting those last 500 rounds or they have a much lower accuracy requirement.
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Old 08-06-2018, 6:25 PM
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Since we are on the topic...do SS barrels last longer than CM barrels, from an precision standpoint?
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Old 08-06-2018, 7:10 PM
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Mustang, from my understanding chromoly barrels last longer yet stainless steel barrels are more accurate. If I'm wrong I'm sure somebody will come along to correct me but that is my understanding.
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Old 08-06-2018, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I consider a barrel "shot out" when it will no longer hold DOUBLE the accuracy of when it was new.
Since they usually shoot 1/4moa when new, your 1/2moa grouping is right in line with about where I would be pulling them off as well.

I typically see 308 sized 6.5's lasting about 2300 rounds before they lose peak accuracy.
Everyone screams and cries about that saying they shot theirs over 3000 rounds, but I guarantee you that if they know what they are doing, they were doubting those last 500 rounds or they have a much lower accuracy requirement.
Yes, I would agree with your statement.. But for me, it went from a raged hole gun to over 1/2", sometimes.. All the times, with the 140s, but the 130s seemed much happier.. And yes, the last bunch of matches I did have questions.. It ran the rounds through and didn't place all that poorly. Honestly I was amazed, as I said.

I know people want BR accuracy, but controlling the wobble, managing stage plan and the time, are the real killers for the type of shooting longrange1, you and I are primarily doing. And if we are honest, we need to admit our targets are generally MUCH larger than the 1/2"+ barrel issue.
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Old 08-06-2018, 9:20 PM
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I jealous you guys shoot enough to shoot out a barrel. And Iím jealous you guys are good enough to know when you have.
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Old 08-06-2018, 9:42 PM
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As a rifle competitor, rather than a gunsmith, I would say the barrel needs to be changed when you loose confidence in it's ability to do it's job.
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Old 08-07-2018, 3:25 AM
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Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
I can shoot small enough groups at 100, but at distance, to much influences for me to use that as my benchmark. Just my personal thing.

If the group size at 100 becomes much larger than 1/2” or if I loose speed and SDs (then it will open up soon), I know it’s time.

I like you, have had bad barrels, some way overbore go away in <900 rounds.

<<Not sure what just happened but everything below this jus vanished >>

Quick retype: I ran my main 6.5C over 4200 and still was doing well in the match types you and I shoot. Was running 2840 with 140s and Factory 130 Prime was at 2910. Not sure why this Krieger ran so long. But it was still me missing more than the barrel.

Anyway I have a couple new barrels coming..
diver you are one of a hand full of guys that could say he got 4200 rounds through a creedmoor that i would actually believe especially at those speeds.

i know a guy that shoots in the series back east and said he got 3600 rounds through a 6.5x47 and i believe him but ive not had(or seen)that luck in any 6.5 rifle...and is the reason i decided to try the 47.

also you randal and i are on the same page...at about a 1/2min a barrel is done.

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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I consider a barrel "shot out" when it will no longer hold DOUBLE the accuracy of when it was new.
Since they usually shoot 1/4moa when new, your 1/2moa grouping is right in line with about where I would be pulling them off as well.

I typically see 308 sized 6.5's lasting about 2300 rounds before they lose peak accuracy.
Everyone screams and cries about that saying they shot theirs over 3000 rounds, but I guarantee you that if they know what they are doing, they were doubting those last 500 rounds or they have a much lower accuracy requirement.
this is my exact thoughts and experience with the 6.5s...i had a shilen go 2800 but that was running 140s at 2700 it would not shoot anything faster than 2725 so pretty light loads for a 260.

i see all the talk and ive heard it on the line and i just laugh to myself...guy that shoots at our matches claims he got 3500 through his creed and set the barrel back and got another 3500...now i know this is BS because i had 1 barrel set back and will never do it again.
all of the other 6.5 barrels have gone away between about 2000 and 2500 plus or minus a few hundred either way but most right at 2100-2200.

Last edited by longrange1; 08-07-2018 at 3:28 AM..
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Old 08-07-2018, 3:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
Since we are on the topic...do SS barrels last longer than CM barrels, from an precision standpoint?
ive heard the same thing about CM barrels lasting a little long but ive not heard SS is more accurate.
i can tell you i shot out a factory CM and 3 shilen SS barrels in a 300wm...the factory went about 1050 at 1100 it was pretty bad one shilen went 900 and 2 went right around 1000-1100...but ill also say im a little harder on barrels than the average shooter and i also shoot faster loads than the average shooter.
i will take a load that is a little looser but faster over a slower 1 hole load.

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I jealous you guys shoot enough to shoot out a barrel. And Iím jealous you guys are good enough to know when you have.
this is the beauty(and the curse)of living right across the street from where i shoot...i can go out early and shoot my load development run home and load up rounds to verify and be back to test within 1hr then start gathering dopes the following day...or even same day...3-4 times out in a day is not uncommon for me.
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Old 08-07-2018, 3:49 AM
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now since we are talking about barrel life have any of you seen unusually short barrel life lately?

i have...my buddys 6xc started going at 900 and normally goes 1200-1500
my smiths 6xc went at 600 he set it back recrowned and still would not shoot
my last 6.5x47 barrel went at about 1050....first barrel went 2175
another guy i shoot with had a 6CM go at 900
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Old 08-07-2018, 4:41 AM
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Originally Posted by longrange1 View Post
now since we are talking about barrel life have any of you seen unusually short barrel life lately?



i have...my buddys 6xc started going at 900 and normally goes 1200-1500

my smiths 6xc went at 600 he set it back recrowned and still would not shoot

my last 6.5x47 barrel went at about 1050....first barrel went 2175

another guy i shoot with had a 6CM go at 900

Just for clarity, I had to stop shooting my 140 hand-loads. One because of time and the amount of ammo that was being used up; but also because the 140ís were not shooting anymore. I still am not sure why the 130 factory Prime worked better at around 1/2 + for so much longer. But again, most guys would have not at all accepted what I was still running.

Looks like Greg Young is sending me another barrel so I should have three spun up at the same time not enticing me to see just how long I can push it. For what it is worth, it started out that I wanted to see how long I could keep it, then it just turned into a timing issue and the rounds added up super fast. I do hope for 2k per 6.5 barrel.

I have a 7mm that runs 168s just about 3200fps. I do not shoot it much even though it is one of my favorites for fear Iíll need to rechamber and never get it as good as it is now.

The barrel before the current, never really shot as fast, or nearly as tight and was dead by 900ish. I swear it seemed between trying a bunch of different CA approved non-lead and traditionals (to many), load developing and long range dope gathering, it never really got off the ground. Huge wast of time.

I am tired of chasing lands on barrel burners and to be honest, even hand loading.. That is one of the main reasons I stayed with the 6.5 even for positional shooting. More recoil? Sure. Will I drop a couple that I could have otherwise free-recoiled? Of course. But way less work, expense and piece of mind.









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Old 08-07-2018, 5:07 AM
longrange1 longrange1 is offline
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Default lets talk about barrel life...

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Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
Just for clarity, I had to stop shooting my 140 hand-loads. One because of time and the amount of ammo that was being used up; but also because the 140ís were not shooting anymore. I still am not sure why the 130 factory Prime worked better at around 1/2 + for so much longer. But again, most guys would have not at all accepted what I was still running.

Looks like Greg Young is sending me another barrel so I should have three spun up at the same time not enticing me to see just how long I can push it. For what it is worth, it started out that I wanted to see how long I could keep it, then it just turned into a timing issue and the rounds added up super fast. I do hope for 2k per 6.5 barrel.

I have a 7mm that runs 168s just about 3200fps. I do not shoot it much even though it is one of my favorites for fear Iíll need to rechamber and never get it as good as it is now.

The barrel before the current, never really shot as fast, or nearly as tight and was dead by 900ish. I swear it seemed between trying a bunch of different CA approved non-lead and traditionals (to many), load developing and long range dope gathering, it never really got off the ground. Huge wast of time.

I am tired of chasing lands on barrel burners and to be honest, even hand loading.. That is one of the main reasons I stayed with the 6.5 even for positional shooting. More recoil? Sure. Will I drop a couple that I could have otherwise free-recoiled? Of course. But way less work, expense and piece of mind.









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i agree...ive been there chasing loads trying to find that perfect 1 hole load and the problem is i can not shoot 1 hole groups consistently and im not a group shooter anyway...maybe when i can no longer work barricades or move i will start bench or F-class shooting...but yeah ive shot thousands of rounds chasing that elusive load.

i love the 6CM but after having several miss calls last year when i seen hits or no dust splash at the target and the short barrel life i decided to go back to a 6.5 and the 47 is just so easy to load for and stupid accurate that is what i settled on.

123g lapuas at avg 3027fps is quite a load...about the same recoil as a pellet gun and 5.2mils at 850yds makes me happy LOL.

Last edited by longrange1; 08-07-2018 at 5:11 AM..
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Old 08-07-2018, 8:42 AM
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i agree...ive been there chasing loads trying to find that perfect 1 hole load and the problem is i can not shoot 1 hole groups consistently and im not a group shooter anyway...maybe when i can no longer work barricades or move i will start bench or F-class shooting...but yeah ive shot thousands of rounds chasing that elusive load.

i love the 6CM but after having several miss calls last year when i seen hits or no dust splash at the target and the short barrel life i decided to go back to a 6.5 and the 47 is just so easy to load for and stupid accurate that is what i settled on.

123g lapuas at avg 3027fps is quite a load...about the same recoil as a pellet gun and 5.2mils at 850yds makes me happy LOL.
Sorry to derail this a tiny bit~

That's fast out of a 47

Thats 1/2 mil lower than what I get in the valley areas and up by you, you'd still be about .2 tenths or so flatter when I am running 130's from 26" barrels. I have never run the 123 Scenars. What barrel length and powder (H4350) are you running?

I think I am going down from 26 to 24, but not sure what that might do to my velocity as the barrels themselves can have a fairly big velocity spread between them.

Maybe once I get my barrels back the 123 should be on my radar? Funny, I went from 105's to a 6.5- 140s/130s other than trying the 120 flatlines, I skipped over the 123s. I 'm sure the small primered 47 and lapua C brass is easier to load for, but I have thousands of Prime once fired large primer Creeds.. Have you found the 123 to be sensitive to jump like the Berger VLDs?

Back to barrels, any idea how running @ or just above most Dasher speeds, might play out life wise in the 6.5?

Sorry for all the questions -
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Old 08-07-2018, 9:49 AM
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Default lets talk about barrel life...

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Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
Sorry to derail this a tiny bit~

That's fast out of a 47

Thats 1/2 mil lower than what I get in the valley areas and up by you, you'd still be about .2 tenths or so flatter when I am running 130's from 26" barrels. I have never run the 123 Scenars. What barrel length and powder (H4350) are you running?

I think I am going down from 26 to 24, but not sure what that might do to my velocity as the barrels themselves can have a fairly big velocity spread between them.

Maybe once I get my barrels back the 123 should be on my radar? Funny, I went from 105's to a 6.5- 140s/130s other than trying the 120 flatlines, I skipped over the 123s. I 'm sure the small primered 47 and lapua C brass is easier to load for, but I have thousands of Prime once fired large primer Creeds.. Have you found the 123 to be sensitive to jump like the Berger VLDs?

Back to barrels, any idea how running @ or just above most Dasher speeds, might play out life wise in the 6.5?

Sorry for all the questions -


Derail away I like the discussion

As far as barrel length goes Iíve ran from 30Ē down to 22Ē and maybe itís just me but the shorter barrels are easier to tune and seem a bit more accurate but I think 26Ē is the sweet spot where handy/velocity and accuracy meet...Iíve shot 24Ē the last few barrels and you can get the speed but you have to lean on them a little.
My current barrel is 26Ē and 3030 is not hot itís in the low warm side I could probably lean on it a little and get 3100

Last 47 barrel was 24Ē and I was running 130s at 2925-2940 with varget.

As far as shooting fast loads and barrel life goes I donít think thereís a huge difference...my first 47 barrel was 24Ē and lasted 2175 before it was done shooting 140 hybrids at 2725-2740.

And like I said Iíll take a faster load thatís a little looser over a slower tighter load...I shot 130g Berger hybrids out of a 24Ē Krieger 260 rem at 3050 for 1950-1975 rounds.

No the 123s are not sensitive but the shoot best from touching out to .020 off I havenít tried any deeper...one of our better shooters has never shot anything but 123s and heís been shooting 20yrs...he runs they 3050 out of a 26Ē barreled creed.

I only run varget in the 47 4350 donít give the speed or accuracy that varget does and varget has shot every bullet Iíve tried outstanding...like you Iím tired of reloading so I stick with what works I donít want to chase loads anymore


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Old 08-07-2018, 10:23 AM
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Derail away I like the discussion

As far as barrel length goes I’ve ran from 30” down to 22” and maybe it’s just me but the shorter barrels are easier to tune and seem a bit more accurate but I think 26” is the sweet spot where handy/velocity and accuracy meet...I’ve shot 24” the last few barrels and you can get the speed but you have to lean on them a little.
My current barrel is 26” and 3030 is not hot it’s in the low warm side I could probably lean on it a little and get 3100

Last 47 barrel was 24” and I was running 130s at 2925-2940 with varget.

As far as shooting fast loads and barrel life goes I don’t think there’s a huge difference...my first 47 barrel was 24” and lasted 2175 before it was done shooting 140 hybrids at 2725-2740.

And like I said I’ll take a faster load that’s a little looser over a slower tighter load...I shot 130g Berger hybrids out of a 24” Krieger 260 rem at 3050 for 1950-1975 rounds.

No the 123s are not sensitive but the shoot best from touching out to .020 off I haven’t tried any deeper...one of our better shooters has never shot anything but 123s and he’s been shooting 20yrs...he runs they 3050 out of a 26” barreled creed.

I only run varget in the 47 4350 don’t give the speed or accuracy that varget does and varget has shot every bullet I’ve tried outstanding...like you I’m tired of reloading so I stick with what works I don’t want to chase loads anymore


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Thanks! I have enough varget or 4350 to do either, for a couple of barrel lives.

I was getting slower speeds with varget on my 26" with 140's, than the 4350.. But I don't know if that is common or just me.. I have a 22 and 24 in other 6.5s. Maybe I'll test a few 123s with varget on those and see what I get before getting carried away with the new barrels.

Thanks for the help..

BTW one of those is a factory CM barrel -- shoots ok.. But have to wonder, about the question posted above regarding longer life of CM. Even if "peak" accuracy is longer than SS, the CM barrels I've shot, kinda start on the "getting old and tired" side of higher end SS barrels. So even if they do last longer, it seems kinda pointless... Maybe Lynn would know what the actual difference is.
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:48 AM
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Yeah if I was running a bigger case like the CM Iíd run 4350 too but the 47 and varget are like peas and carrots


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Old 08-07-2018, 11:08 AM
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Longrange1
I don't do the type of shooting you guys do but I always have an opinion.
The shorter barrels are stiffer so they tend to tune easier in my opinion. The straight cylinder barrels seem to tune easier as well again that is my opinion.
Some barrels fade away slowly while others completely stop shooting and in my experience the bigger the bore the more noticeable it becomes.
I changed out 2 barrels a year while competing regardless of the round count because I had a place in line with a super gunsmith.
Keep your powder charge near the top of the node not the middle or beginning and seat all your rounds to within 0.001 of each other using a comparator.
The variation you will see is coming from the bullets and it is an eye opener. I have seen 0.023 variation out of a box of 100 bullets.
If your shooting a 6mm try a box of 103 VaporTrail bullets or the ones made by Randy Robinette if you can get them. If not give the Berger 105 BT bullets a try not the VLD or 108's.
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:12 PM
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How many have taken a bore scope and checked the bore just in front of the chamber.

I had 220 swift that in 300 rounds had removed a 1/2 inch of rifling from just in front of the chamber.
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:52 PM
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Regarding the derail...

Longrange, Diver - I've had great accuracy in a 6.5 cm AR with the 123 Scenars. Very forgiving to jump in my experience on this barrel, accurate and no pressure/primer issues back before JP came out with their high pressure bolt.
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Old 08-07-2018, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Longrange1
I don't do the type of shooting you guys do but I always have an opinion.
The shorter barrels are stiffer so they tend to tune easier in my opinion. The straight cylinder barrels seem to tune easier as well again that is my opinion.
Some barrels fade away slowly while others completely stop shooting and in my experience the bigger the bore the more noticeable it becomes.
I changed out 2 barrels a year while competing regardless of the round count because I had a place in line with a super gunsmith.
Keep your powder charge near the top of the node not the middle or beginning and seat all your rounds to within 0.001 of each other using a comparator.
The variation you will see is coming from the bullets and it is an eye opener. I have seen 0.023 variation out of a box of 100 bullets.
If your shooting a 6mm try a box of 103 VaporTrail bullets or the ones made by Randy Robinette if you can get them. If not give the Berger 105 BT bullets a try not the VLD or 108's.
i was hoping youd jump in here...while we dont shoot the same disciplines you know more than most of us ever will about a lot of this.

no i gave up on the 6mm and went back to the 6.5mm.

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Originally Posted by augoldminer View Post
How many have taken a bore scope and checked the bore just in front of the chamber.

I had 220 swift that in 300 rounds had removed a 1/2 inch of rifling from just in front of the chamber.
yes i have a bore scope and check my barrels every couple of times out more so looking for fouling but i can tell you a have less than 300 rounds on this new 47 barrel and the fire cracking is about an 1" or so past the neck area but lands are the same...the 220 swift is a barrel burner and by the time your done with that barrel i bet you loose 2"+.
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Old 08-07-2018, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottie15 View Post
Regarding the derail...



Longrange, Diver - I've had great accuracy in a 6.5 cm AR with the 123 Scenars. Very forgiving to jump in my experience on this barrel, accurate and no pressure/primer issues back before JP came out with their high pressure bolt.


Hereís my load development with the 123s all .020 off the lands...



I also shot 38.9g and it shot the same as 38.7 and 38.5 so I settled on 38.7g for charge weight then shot 5 at .030 off and 5 at .010 off...

hereís 38.7g varget 123g lapua .010 off fed205M....



And a little chrony data with 2 different lots of brass...




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Old 08-07-2018, 1:36 PM
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My load for the 6.5 cm was with H4350. That stuff just works in the 6.5. Velocity was not great even with near max loads of Varget for me.
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Old 08-07-2018, 1:50 PM
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Default lets talk about barrel life...

And the 4350 worked ok for me in the 47(I tried it in all 3 barrels)lotta guys shoot it but varget is faster and has been way more accurate right outta the gate.

When I shot a 260 and a 6cm 4350 was the go to.


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Old 08-07-2018, 8:22 PM
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Default lets talk about barrel life...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Longrange1

I don't do the type of shooting you guys do but I always have an opinion.

The shorter barrels are stiffer so they tend to tune easier in my opinion. The straight cylinder barrels seem to tune easier as well again that is my opinion.

Some barrels fade away slowly while others completely stop shooting and in my experience the bigger the bore the more noticeable it becomes.

I changed out 2 barrels a year while competing regardless of the round count because I had a place in line with a super gunsmith.

Keep your powder charge near the top of the node not the middle or beginning and seat all your rounds to within 0.001 of each other using a comparator.

The variation you will see is coming from the bullets and it is an eye opener. I have seen 0.023 variation out of a box of 100 bullets.

If your shooting a 6mm try a box of 103 VaporTrail bullets or the ones made by Randy Robinette if you can get them. If not give the Berger 105 BT bullets a try not the VLD or 108's.


Lynn,

Someone asked a question about CM barrels lasting longer than SS barrels.

While your accuracy needs are measured in parts of 1/10ths, I am ok with a couple. I have had a lot of factory CM barrels but none that shoot much better than 2/10s (just at and sometimes above 1/2 MOA)

It seems lasting longer is just that, so I see no advantage to CM, just worst longer, unless used in auto fire. But I have no idea in precision rifle, it is just a guess. My CMs spin off fairly fast.

Can you ahead light on the truth?






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Old 08-07-2018, 9:41 PM
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The chromoly barrels are a bit harder to machine than stainless so it is said you get a better finish with stainless.
I had Randy Dierks fit some barrels up in chromoly and stainless and they pretty much shot the same but the chromoly rusted quicker and needed a different cleaning routine.
I now use stainless on everything even hunting rifles and if your after that black finish you can have a stainless barrel melonited.
You can cut a stainless steel barrel with a serrated knife pretty easily.
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Old 08-07-2018, 9:45 PM
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Are there any inside linings, like chrome, that can extend barrel life?
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Old 08-08-2018, 8:48 AM
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Are there any inside linings, like chrome, that can extend barrel life?
Good question. Yes, hard chrome will help extend barrel life but it's hard to plate evenly down a long small hole so sometimes the diameter is not perfect the entire length of the barrel. The hard chrome is very hard and cannot be lapped to correct the issue. Some chrome plated barrels can shoot very good but they are seldom used in target guns.
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Old 08-08-2018, 8:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
The chromoly barrels are a bit harder to machine than stainless so it is said you get a better finish with stainless.
I had Randy Dierks fit some barrels up in chromoly and stainless and they pretty much shot the same but the chromoly rusted quicker and needed a different cleaning routine.
I now use stainless on everything even hunting rifles and if your after that black finish you can have a stainless barrel melonited.
You can cut a stainless steel barrel with a serrated knife pretty easily.


Thanks!


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Old 08-08-2018, 10:44 AM
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Has anyone tried a melonite barrel ?
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
Are there any inside linings, like chrome, that can extend barrel life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
I now use stainless on everything even hunting rifles and if your after that black finish you can have a stainless barrel melonited.
Melonite a.k.a. Nitride or QPQ is a surface treatment that hardens the outer skin of a steel object, and turns it black.

I just measured the hardness of two barrels I have on hand using a Starrett 3811A portable hardness tester:

A Faxon QPQ Nitrided 4150 barrel: 3-point average hardness was 56.3 HRC

A Bartlein stainless 416R barrel blank: 3-point average hardness was 30.8 HRC.

I don't have any nitrided stainless barrels on hand, but I would imagine that the Bartlein barrel's surface hardness could be increased to 55 HRC by nitriding/Meloniting.

The nitride treatment penetrates just a few thousandths into the steel surface, I would not think it would be more than 0.005" or about the difference in height between a rifling groove and land, but that would be deep enough to increase the life of the throat.

Anyone have experience with nitrided stainless match barrels? How much longer do they last?

https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/frequ...-chrome-lined/
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Old 08-08-2018, 1:21 PM
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...I don't have any nitrided stainless barrels on hand, but I would imagine that the Bartlein barrel's surface hardness could be increased to 55 HRC by nitriding/Meloniting....
I have a barrel that has a melonite finished. The flash hider threads were over size after the melonite finish was applied and my hardened die will not cut the threads. It's pretty hard.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:11 PM
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I have a barrel that has a melonite finished. The flash hider threads were over size after the melonite finish was applied and my hardened die will not cut the threads. It's pretty hard.
Lap the brake on with 600 grit clover.
The clover will cut the clearance into the brake.
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:00 PM
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My old shooting buddy John Pretty Gun Crawford used a melonited 6 Grenfell to win the NBRSA 600 Yard Heavygun title in 2011 or 2012 I can't remember which.
For those that like hotrod engines it's the same process as a nitrided crankshaft.
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Old 08-09-2018, 6:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Lap the brake on with 600 grit clover.
The clover will cut the clearance into the brake.
Thanx, I just so happen to have some of that in the toolbox. I thought with an adjustable die I could ease into it and get it cutting but no joy. I'm about 3 threads from being fully seated. I'll give it a try, thanx.
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Old 08-09-2018, 6:58 AM
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Thanx, I just so happen to have some of that in the toolbox. I thought with an adjustable die I could ease into it and get it cutting but no joy. I'm about 3 threads from being fully seated. I'll give it a try, thanx.
Any way to avoid this? Can the threads be covered during the process?
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Old 08-09-2018, 7:46 AM
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Any way to avoid this? Can the threads be covered during the process?
No, the muzzle threads with lapping compound on them are what's doing the cutting.
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Old 08-09-2018, 9:17 AM
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Any way to avoid this? Can the threads be covered during the process?
Ask your plater if he can mask an area of the part to NOT be nitrided while the rest of the part is being processed.
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Old 08-09-2018, 9:19 AM
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Thanx, I just so happen to have some of that in the toolbox.
After barrels come back from Melonite, I usually have to lap them into the reciever with clover to get them back together.
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Old 08-09-2018, 9:24 AM
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No, the muzzle threads with lapping compound on them are what's doing the cutting.
I understand that. What I meant was could the threads be covered before the plating process so none of the melonite was deposited onto the threads.
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