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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1321
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When Injustice Becomes Law, Resistance is Duty Quote:
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#1324
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Please bear in mind, I haven't read all 33 pages of this thread.
Like many, I'm depressed and worried over the direction California is headed. After this legislative year, I can't even joke to myself about addressing and overturning the effective ban on civilian NFA item (SBRs, suppressors, MGs) ownership. As much as I want a three-stamp gun, possession of one is nowhere in sight of my foreseeable future while living in this state. What I want to bring up is a new chilling fear. The fear of firearm purchasing as we know it today being made as obtrusive and impossible as NFA item acquisition. For legislation to be passed redefining "dangerous weapon," and then seeing every semi-auto center-fired firearm fall under that obtuse definition. By liberal logic, the defined "dangerous weapons" would still be "obtainable." But realistically, these newly redefined "DWs" would be unobtainable due to the CADoJ refusing or indefinitely stalling to release DWPs. This is purely conjecture on my part, but what could we do to preemptively prevent the above from happening? Aside from voting trump and hoping he acts pro-2A long enough to put pro-2A Justices in seat, is there a way we could legislate a safeguard to protect what ground we have left? |
#1326
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Only the family can be trusted to pass on the firearm legacy and the only effective way for them to do that is with a gun trust built with that in mind. See video linked in my sig and at http://guntrust.org
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David R Duringer JD LL.M (Tax), CA/WA/TX atty, @guntrust on social nets. Protective Law Corporation *Estate Planning for Gun Owners* (zoom or office) Become an affiliated attorney/advisor: http://guncounsel.com CRPA Mag Must Retract Erroneous Bulletin Slamming Gun Trusts Radio ads: http://Protect.FM FREE training: http://guntrust.org FREE design meeting: http://Protect.LIFE |
#1327
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It seems that many people in CA will be registering their AR's, for example, as assault weapons in CA come 2017.
My laymen's understanding of the short barrel rifle laws in CA is that there is an exemption for a registered assault weapon. So can we, or a firearms trust, apply for a federal stamp to legally own a SBR in CA? |
#1328
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Sadly, you cannot. The exemption to CA SBR law is for NFA registered AOWS only.
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Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
#1329
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In fact, while you can buy a C&R SBR, it essentially has to be manual action or still fairly long because a semiauto <30" OAL is an AW, even with a fixed magazine.
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#1330
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#1331
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[As for any large corporations with guns, i would suggest they use a corporate grantor trust.]
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David R Duringer JD LL.M (Tax), CA/WA/TX atty, @guntrust on social nets. Protective Law Corporation *Estate Planning for Gun Owners* (zoom or office) Become an affiliated attorney/advisor: http://guncounsel.com CRPA Mag Must Retract Erroneous Bulletin Slamming Gun Trusts Radio ads: http://Protect.FM FREE training: http://guntrust.org FREE design meeting: http://Protect.LIFE |
#1332
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And then there's 80 percent builds that are neither Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, or AOW
Don't forget that actually, there are examples of builds that you can do that are neither pistol, rifle, shotgun, or AOW under State or Federal law. They are referred to as "Other."
Some of these are archived here, including links to ATF letters. One example here. The ATF letters are archived, too. If you do these starting from your own 80 percenter, you will in fact have an "Other" type of firearm. As Franklin Armory's current page points out in discussing this, The advantage to a set up which results in an "Other" configuration is that "the weapon is no longer classified as a rifle (nor pistol, shotgun, or AOW), which means that it cannot be considered an "assault weapon" by any existing assault weapon bans. It is simply an "Other" firearm and doesn't carry the restrictions that other traditional firearms may. In CA that means that an AR-15 pattern firearm with the CSW can use a standard magazine release instead of a bullet button as well as any legally possessed high capacity magazines!" (At their above page they refer to the CSW but this would hold true with alternative "Other" firearms as well.) There are other ways to circumvent CA law (some of which are detailed here) but the above discussion of "Others" is important because you don't need to jump through hoops to get a SBR or AOW when you could just build a "Other."
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Member, FPC - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/act/ Donor to FPC / FPF, Calguns Foundation, FNRA, GOA, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CZ-52 (Česká Zbrojovka vzor 52), M44 Russian w/Brass Stacker, & 80percenters. Court challenge to AB 857 (2016) [Work in Progress]: http://defendingconstitutionalrights.com/ Stop Gunpocalypse: https://www.firearmsfoundation.org/gunpocalypse or https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/quick_donate Last edited by freethinkr; 04-22-2017 at 12:18 AM.. |
#1333
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Under CA laws, there is no "Other" firearm. A firearm with a less than 16" barrel length is a "handgun" [PC 16530(a)] and a firearm that is not a "handgun" is a "long gun" [PC 16865]. In addition, a "handgun" can also be classified as a SBR/SBS if it also meets the definition of a SBR/SBS. [PC 16530(b)] |
#1334
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Example of "Others" permissible in CA
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The key is that the configuration of other does avoid the AW designation. You mentioned that a firearm with less than 16" barrel length is a "handgun" (PC 16530(a)). It's worth going over the exact text of PC 16530 (a) and (b) for reference: (a) As used in this part, the terms “firearm capable of being concealed upon the person,” “pistol,” and “revolver” apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length. (b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a “firearm capable of being concealed upon the person,” “pistol,” or “revolver” from also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun. You also mentioned PC 16865, which states in full: 16865. As used in Section 26860, long gun means any firearm that is not a handgun or a machinegun. What are the requirements of Section 26860 to which PC 16865 refers? These are the safe handling requirements. 26860. (a) Except as authorized by the department, commencing January 1, 2015, a firearms dealer shall not deliver a long gun unless the recipient performs a safe handling demonstration with that long gun. Now bear in mind, supposing that you had developed an "Other" (under federal law) that would fit the definition of a "long gun" under California law, as an 07 FFL, and if a firearms dealer were to want to transfer that gun to someone, it would have to go through all kinds of requirements. Suppose for a moment that this would have a barrel designed to be 16 inches in length but that the design would otherwise look something like this. It would not be an AW under CA, but it would need to go through standard transfer requirements. Because of CA law the overall length will need to be over 30 inches. However, in the case of an "Other" developed from an 80 percent receiver by an unlicensed person in their own home with characteristics as described above, the firearm is not going to be transferred, due to federal law that prohibits transfers of the item that the unlicensed person has made for their own purpose, so the above requirements regarding safe handling demonstration upon transfer do not come into effect.
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Member, FPC - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/act/ Donor to FPC / FPF, Calguns Foundation, FNRA, GOA, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CZ-52 (Česká Zbrojovka vzor 52), M44 Russian w/Brass Stacker, & 80percenters. Court challenge to AB 857 (2016) [Work in Progress]: http://defendingconstitutionalrights.com/ Stop Gunpocalypse: https://www.firearmsfoundation.org/gunpocalypse or https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/quick_donate Last edited by freethinkr; 04-22-2017 at 2:03 PM.. |
#1336
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(a) The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to “any other weapon” as defined in subsection (e) of Section 5845 of Title 26 of the United States Code, which is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the weapons under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. (b) Any person prohibited by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 29610), Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800), or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of Title 4 of this part, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from possessing these weapons who obtains title to these weapons by bequest or intestate succession may retain title for not more than one year, but actual possession of these weapons at any time is punishable under Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 29610), Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800), or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of Title 4 of this part, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code. Within the year, the person shall transfer title to the weapons by sale, gift, or other disposition. Any person who violates this section is in violation of the applicable provision listed in Section 16590. (c) The exemption provided by this section does not apply to a pen gun. |
#1338
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#1339
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NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor American Marksman Training Group Visit our American Marksman Facebook Page Diamond Bar CCW Facebook Page NRA Memberships at Discounted fee |
#1340
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I'm curious, what's the status of C&R firearms that were SBR/SBS'd when ATF said they kept status?
Are they still C&R? Can they be transferred? Are they contraband?
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#1341
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I'm having trouble finding the C&R exemption in the penal code. Anyone have the new code number(s) exempting C&R SBRs and SBSs?
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#1342
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(a) The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to any firearm or ammunition that is a curio or relic as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and that is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the items under Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. Penal Code 16590 As used in this part, “generally prohibited weapon” means any of the following: (t) A short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, as prohibited by Section 33215. |
#1343
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Thanks, I can't believe I couldn't find that. I think I even skimmed it several times and it did sink in.
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#1344
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Anyone register their AOW as an AW with the DOJ yet?
I'm a little concerned with the DOJ's lack of knowledge on all things firearms (and what's legal) and sending in a pic that will make them freak out.
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Watch & Pray |
#1347
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80 percent build to "Other." See my posts on this earlier in this thread (it is one way, but absolutely not the only way, to completely avoid all registration). Do not take my word for it though, get an attorney, get your ATF / BATFE letter for the proposed build, and as I've suggested in another thread, retain legal counsel together with other eligible and competent persons to launch a case against AB 857 (2016), which for me is a work in progress.
Cheers.
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Member, FPC - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/act/ Donor to FPC / FPF, Calguns Foundation, FNRA, GOA, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CZ-52 (Česká Zbrojovka vzor 52), M44 Russian w/Brass Stacker, & 80percenters. Court challenge to AB 857 (2016) [Work in Progress]: http://defendingconstitutionalrights.com/ Stop Gunpocalypse: https://www.firearmsfoundation.org/gunpocalypse or https://www.calgunsfoundation.org/quick_donate |
#1348
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They don’t care about AR or AK AOW <26” with forward grip. But they still want you to get another serial number if homebuilt even though an ATF assigned serial should clearly be exempt. I registered one AK and one AR pistol AOW as AW Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#1349
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Last edited by Endless; 02-24-2018 at 1:43 PM.. |
#1351
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I sent one in. They kicked it back once so far due to no visible caliber markings on it. Still waiting on approval letter or another kick back but no DOJ visits.
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#1352
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I registered one with a brace. It was approved.
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www.franklinarmory.com info@franklinarmory.com ONLINE STORE: http://franklinarmory.com Franklin Armory - Manufacturer of Quality, California Legal AR's, the F17 Series rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, the Drop-in Fixed Magazine (DFM), and the CA7, CA11, and CA12 Rostered AR Pistols! |
#1355
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#1356
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Sadly that list is really dated. Tracy Rifle and Pistol and Ten Percent Firearms are no longer. Has anyone actually done an AOW through River City Gun Exchange?
I'm also searching for a new AOW FFL to work with. |
#1357
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I also ran into this with the list of FFL as being either moved out of state, closed for good on some minor technicality, or simply will not deal with civilians. I do appreciate the poster for putting it up thank you very much does anyone have any suggestions for FFL they have dealt with in the past for these aows
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