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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles. |
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#1
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legality of ss109/m855 AP ammo In california?
Can I legally purchase ss109/m855 AP ammo online from Wideners and not have men in black suits showing up on my front door step? Has any one purchased ss109/m855 AP ammo In the past couple months?
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#2
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Ill tell the guys in black not to come get ya if you send 200 rds to me
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2 HANDGUNS STOLEN! 1 RECOVERED READ HERE Chickens Want to get into Ham Radio? Click here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=202581 |
#4
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I dont shoot m855 not because im scared to shoot it. I have a 1/4 ammo can full of it. I just dont shoot it because
1.) Its expensive Compared to surplus XM193 2.) I don't want to start forest fires. 3.) I'm not shoot through cars and extended ranges. Right now I shoot Lake City stuff.. around .45 cents a shot but wolf most of the time because its a little cheaper at .30 cents.
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If you seek peace, prepare for war |
#5
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M855 / SS109 is not AP. It has a hardened steel penetrator in the nose of the projectile only. Not a full steel core like true AP..
Here is a photo of a SS109 projectile showing the penetrator.
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Poke'm with a stick! Last edited by SVT-40; 02-07-2009 at 9:45 PM.. |
#6
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if you get your hands on black tip, then you have to worry. I've only seen it in belts for the M-249, never seen it loose.
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"You see in this world theres two kinds of people my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig... You Dig" Blondie from TGBU |
#7
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Only worry if you also own an AR pistol.
Either round mentioned above will make issues for you on the federal and state level if you also own an AR pistol much like if you owned an AK pistol and AP 7.62x39. Otherwise, no issue at all for owning either |
#8
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please explain!?
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#10
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So much ignorance. Only AP handgun ammo is verbotten in CA. Thus the allusion above about having an AR pistol.
Buy all the AP rifle ammo you want / can afford. and for the person talking about 'I'm not shooting thru cars', your standard AR ammo will do that just fine. |
#11
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Simple summary:
- AP Rifle ammunition is NOT illegal. - M855 Ammunition is NOT AP. - M855 can be used in a pistol OR rifle.
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#12
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Worry about what? Hypersensitive misinformed Calgunners telling you it is illegal?
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Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/ Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego. |
#13
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Here is a scan of a Hansen Cartridge flier from 1987. Their "fact sheet" on SS109 ammo. I sold literally hundreds of thousands of rounds of this ammo back in "the day" at the great western gun show in Pomona. I still have some today. It's great shooting ammo.
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Poke'm with a stick! |
#14
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I have about 2k rounds of the Privi green tip. 62g FMJBT. Very accurate ammo. With it in my 20" HBAR I'm hitting 1 1/2" groups at 200y.
And as others have said.... TOTALLY LEGAL. I did see some black tip .30-06 ammo on Ammotogo's website a while back. I would've bought some, but I don't have a .30-.06 Oh yeah, the black tip was/is legal, too!
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I like my ammo like I like my women, cheap and dirty! |
#15
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Quote:
Now the federal ban does not ban possession of AP ammo, but CA does. The question is, does CA consider .223 and .308 caliber ammo to be rifle ammo, and not handgun ammo? Quote:
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#17
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Reading what you quoted in your post, .223 and .308 AP ammo would be legal in California because it states Quote:
Now AFAIK .223 is not considered "handgun ammo" by any reasonable person. REASONABLE PERSON I would say is important here as that it is used in many court cases to define what should and should not be considered. And yes, I'm aware that there are 5.56/.223 AR pistols, but these "pistols" are not easily concealed on ones person and are limited to single shot here in Cali (unless you're a LEO). Also, I know of no .308 caliber handguns. There may be, but I'm not aware of them. Anyway,this is just my two cents worth. It could be complete gibberish AFAIK. You can buy some steel core 7.62x39 ammo. I don't think it's Wolf, though. Maybe some Mil. surplus. I think Barnul(sp?) made some. Anyway, again I know of no 7.63x39 hand guns other than an AK pistol set up. I could be wrong and would love to see some, but I'm not aware of any (that would be legal in Cali anyway)
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I like my ammo like I like my women, cheap and dirty! |
#18
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#19
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#20
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Look, I said I could be wrong. But since you're bringing it up those aren't your everyday, concealable hand guns now are they? I think the section was pretty clear about that point, no? How are you going to reasonably conceal a bolt action hand gun or an AR pistol or some other fancy handgun meant only for the range or specific hunting purposes? I'll cut and paste this one more time.... a) "Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles. I dunno, but that seems pretty clear to me. Again, I'm not saying I'm 100% right, nor am I trying to give anyone "legal" advice. Where exactly did I state I was a lawyer? I'm just someone who is participating in an online conversation about the legalities of steel core RIFLE ammo. Sheesh!
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I like my ammo like I like my women, cheap and dirty! |
#21
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#22
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Point taken. BUT...... 6"-10" barrel EASILY concealable? I call shenanigans I think they're talking about your average handgun round. Remember, it's what would be considered REASONABLE. .45-70's and M1's? I thought we were talking about .223 and .308 AP ammo here? not trying to start anything, just making a point. It's all good.....
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I like my ammo like I like my women, cheap and dirty! |
#23
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So, even though a normal person wouldn't consider the fact that even though there were a couple wierd handgun designs that could shoot .223 or 7.62x39 or 7.62x51, it shouldn't make those calibers handgun ammo. But to the ATF, it does. And I'd like to see somewhere where CA has ruled one way or the other on whether they consider those rifle calibers to be "handgun amm" subject to CA's AP ban, which bans mere possession. As opposed to the federal man which mainly bans manufacture and sales by FFLs. Quote:
Which coming back to the black tip .223 mentioned before. Even if possession was legal in CA (if not considered handgun AP ammo), there still could be federal issues on how it was obtained.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#24
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I *HAVE* a TC Encore with a 7" barrel.
It's easily concealable.
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#25
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wolf is steel cased, not steel core....good to go
no idea about yugo |
#28
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yugo is lead core and non magnetic. (note, yugo is corrosive) |
#29
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I'm not the smallest guy in the world but, I'm not 6'6" 375lbs either and, I can conceal my TC with a 10" barrel quit easily. It came with a shoulder rig so, all I'd have to do is put a jacket on over that. But the rig is for RH shooters and I'm a lefty so, I really don't use it. Also, "concealed" could mean in a backpack. It doesn't have to be dirrectly on your person. |
#30
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oh, and here is the CA PC definition for "firearm capable of being concealed".
Quote:
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#31
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I had never looked at it like that before. Oh crap, they now commercially manufacture short barrels for 10-22s, 870s mossberg 500s, etc. So, could this become a problem? |
#32
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I dunno, that definition is far reaching. I'm wondering if they were trying to prevent people from selling stuff like 16.1" T/C "pistols" with a spare <16" barrel as a plain Title 1 firearm.
If taken to the extreme, every 870, 10-22, etc, would have to be DROSed as a handgun, and if they did that, I think there could be unintended conscequences that they would not like
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
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