GROUP BUY: Ares Armor 80% Rudius 1911 Frames & Jigs

[VaderSpade]

Thanks for the clarification

[savs2k]

thanks ar-tuma. simple update was all we needed. I didn't think it would have came from you though. Once again ares armor pulls through

[glbtrottr]

Hello, People! We're Back!

We've both been out of town, not logging in, or otherwise indisposed. Let's say this election has been...unfortunate, and work hasn't helped matters either. If you've posted in this thread since our last update, regrets; we have not been logging on as real life took over, all while keeping in touch with Dimitri who we spoke with today.

First: The group buy and the delivery of frames is alive and well. As we mentioned the frames would be delivered after the manufacturer is finished with the product.

A few important items:

Pickup of material in Oceanside

We will be picking up frames from Ares perhaps this Friday or Saturday. Currently the frames are being black oxided as we speak. This date may slip a day or two based upon manufacturing and finishing time from Ares. Once this is accomplished, we will be setting up a pickup time in Oceanside for all those who ordered frames who wanted pickup locally there.

Local build parties to accompany your frames

Ares has been kind enough to continue working with their local CNC players to ensure you have a great manufacturing experience. The cost for the build party will be between $65 and $85 per frame, expect the possibility of less. More on this later.

The build party is anticipated to take place towards the latter part of THIS MONTH, November. Subsequent to that there may be an opportunity for you to show up and manufacture your own at the facility ad-hoc. As soon as we have a date available for you, we will let you know on this thread.

Shipping

All those who paid for their shipping, give us a couple of days to get the TWO to THREE HUNDRED items packed for you and shipped. We will get them to you as soon as we are able to pack, go to the post office, and have them shipped. Expect this will take place within the week from when we receive them.

Grips

Ares has committed to making additional grip colors available for all those who asked. They expect the grips to sell for approximately $20 or so.

Status of ATF

As of today, 5 months later, Ares has still not received a response to the ATF submission of their frame. Times being what they are, it will be curious to see if and when that original response is dealt with.

Some minor revisions were made to the frame to also allow for a submission under a previously allowed frame. Ares attorneys are on it and feel comfortable that there are no issues in this. We will be shipping your frames from Ares and be acting as their shipping go-phers. Thanks to all of our Paypal foibles given a few kind members on Calguns, we want to avoid any future ... entanglements caused by a few "enthusiastic" members.

Thank you again for your help and patience, enjoy your frames, and expect to hear a lot more from us over the next couple of weeks.

Cheers!

glbtrottr - if you absolutely must have my phone number for any reason not covered that cannot be addressed by PM, send a PM and I will provide it for you.

To all those sending good wishes to the Banana, thank you.

[savs2k]

damn its good to hear from you glbtrottr. thanks for the update. Last question, hows banana doing? She feeling well yet?

[The Banana]

When I was posting status to say there was no status everyone sent me mail telling to me shut up so I did. There has been no status with the exception of my owning a handful of people with mail orders notes confirming they were in. The Chase died on me and I believe I e-mailed everyone telling them after I lost PP that Chase would not allow me to collect money and it was all refunded by Chase. When I lost my PP account because of politics here it really took the wind out of my sails since I used that account for so very much.

Savs, thanks for asking I am still down but I will get a handful of e-mails out, I know glbtrottr spoke to Ares like 20 minutes before he posted and that was the first information we had come in. Glb has the most current status but I keep the who is on the list list and I am betting after so much time people who appreciate some confirmation notes. Sounds like it might be a busy weekend ...

[rebo0t]

Glad you're okay Banana, its great to see how many members are willing to help out if needed.

[Zymergist]

After all is said and done, and time for folks to get them built up, if someone wanted to set up a range day for the builds I will chip in a couple kegs of home brew to toast the builds (for after the range closes of course )

The Banana, take care of yourself and If I can help with anything from the San Diego area let me know. And again thanks for putting this all together and all the work involved.

[MountainShooter]

Thanks for the updates and thank you again for taking the time to put this group buy together. Glad to hear all is well with you banana.

[mr.]

Glad to hear from you guys! Get well soon banana!

[ZIPP1]

wait! so how would they release those frames without ATF response? I know at one point they said ARES have the BATFE letter already, is that enough to release the frames?

[VaderSpade]

Originally Posted by ZIPP1

wait! so how would they release those frames without ATF response? I know at one point they said ARES have the BATFE letter already, is that enough to release the frames?

They said they made changes so they were covered by an earlier letter. Let's all stop stirring the pot.

[pharmhand]

Are there any group buys being organized for parts kits now that the frames are almost ready? If not, what is the best place to get an entry level parts kit?

[Mrbfox]

Check out iver johnson. Made by the same factory in the philipines as some of the other 1911 clones out there. Just packaged under the name (that they bought the rights to)

[Tjfearl]

Originally Posted by pharmhand

Are there any group buys being organized for parts kits now that the frames are almost ready? If not, what is the best place to get an entry level parts kit?

The CHEAPSEST would be SARCO, The cheapest best solution would probably be to buy the value kit from Ares Armor.

[wash]

I suggest that anyone considering a budget build kit instead of buying right away, purchase both volumes of the Kuhnhausen M1911 manuals and read them.

If you want a cheap 1911, an RIA is cheap and will be about the same quality as a 1911 built with a Sarco parts kit.

What an 80% build let's you do is customize a 1911 to your own specs for the cost of parts (something a whole lot easier in the rest of the country where finished frames and slide/frame kits are available to buy without being a police officer).

So play to the strength of an 80% and make your slide to frame fit ball bearing smooth with zero play, hard fit your barrel for match accuracy and give it a nice trigger while you are at it.

Your parts don't have to be really expensive but they should be high quality.

With a Sarco kit, quality is very questionable and often the parts are minimum spec drop-ins with no material left for fitting.

[jrock]

thanks for the updates.

Sounds like the PARTS KIT GROUP BUY never got organized.

[mr.]

I bought a sarco kit to put my first one togather, parts look decent and I've checked most of the critical deminsons on the slide and they all check out. I'll put it togather and see if I can make it work and go from there

[Tjfearl]

Originally Posted by wash

I suggest that anyone considering a budget build kit instead of buying right away, purchase both volumes of the Kuhnhausen M1911 manuals and read them.

If you want a cheap 1911, an RIA is cheap and will be about the same quality as a 1911 built with a Sarco parts kit.

What an 80% build let's you do is customize a 1911 to your own specs for the cost of parts (something a whole lot easier in the rest of the country where finished frames and slide/frame kits are available to buy without being a police officer).

So play to the strength of an 80% and make your slide to frame fit ball bearing smooth with zero play, hard fit your barrel for match accuracy and give it a nice trigger while you are at it.

Your parts don't have to be really expensive but they should be high quality.

With a Sarco kit, quality is very questionable and often the parts are minimum spec drop-ins with no material left for fitting.

Wash, I am planning on buying complete Fusion upper parts and most likely Cylinder & slide lower parts. Do you recommend an unramped barrel? I am planning on buying a 1911 armorers block and a decent set of files to help me assemble this beast. I plan on looking up those 1911 books eventually, but im more focused on college and my Navy Dive Manual at the moment. Are you using a mill or files to cut your barrel hood?

[DesertFoxjd24]

Thanks for the update glbtrottr and banana. Your time and efforts are much appreciated on this GB!

[couch]

Originally Posted by glbtrottr

Status of ATF

As of today, 5 months later, Ares has still not received a response to the ATF submission of their frame. Times being what they are, it will be curious to see if and when that original response is dealt with.

Some minor revisions were made to the frame to also allow for a submission under a previously allowed frame. Ares attorneys are on it and feel comfortable that there are no issues in this.

So which frame/ATF letter are they following? This one?

Originally Posted by by John R. Spencer FTB

The BATFE's Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has held that in order for a 1911-style receiver-blank or receiver-casting not to be recognized as a "firearm", the 1911-style receiver must NOT have:

-Slide rails or slide rail indexing marks
-A barrel seat

More than two of the following four critical holes drilled

-Slide stop pivot
-Sear pivot
-Disconnector
-Hammer pin

May 16, 2008 A.D.
John R. Spencer FTB
MMK:903050 311/2008-397

[BigfootHunter]

Originally Posted by glbtrottr

Currently the frames are being black oxided as we speak.

glbtrottr, thanks for the update. I was under the impression that the frames were coming "in the white" is that no longer the case?

In any case, looking forward to picking up my frames when they are available.

[Zymergist]

Being a NOOB to this, I was wondering how others are planning on building to comply with regs and not have it legally considered an "Unsafe handgun":
(This is from a conversation on the 2nd group buy thread page 6 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=629599&page=6)

32000. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.

31910. As used in this part, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person, for which any of the following is true:
(a) For a revolver:
(1) It does not have a safety device that, either automatically in
the case of a double-action firing mechanism, or by manual operation
in the case of a single-action firing mechanism, causes the hammer
to retract to a point where the firing pin does not rest upon the
primer of the cartridge.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns.
(b) For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device,
as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by
the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns.
(4) Commencing January 1, 2006, for a center fire semiautomatic
pistol that is not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section
32015, it does not have either a chamber load indicator, or a
magazine disconnect mechanism.
(5) Commencing January 1, 2007, for all center fire semiautomatic
pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section
32015, it does not have both a chamber load indicator and if it has
a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.
(6) Commencing January 1, 2006, for all rimfire semiautomatic
pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section
32015, it does not have a magazine disconnect mechanism, if it has a
detachable magazine.
(7) (A) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols
that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 32015,
it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of
characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the
pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the
interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that
are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm
is fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the
technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one
manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions.
(B) The Attorney General may also approve a method of equal or
greater reliability and effectiveness in identifying the specific
serial number of a firearm from spent cartridge casings discharged by
that firearm than that which is set forth in this paragraph, to be
thereafter required as otherwise set forth by this paragraph where
the Attorney General certifies that this new method is also
unencumbered by any patent restrictions. Approval by the Attorney
General shall include notice of that fact via regulations adopted by
the Attorney General for purposes of implementing that method for
purposes of this paragraph.
(C) The microscopic array of characters required by this section
shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's
number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing
number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the
meaning of Sections 23900 and 23920.

Is there a way other than building with a single shot mag and long barrel per:

32100. (b) Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5
(commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to a single-shot
pistol with a barrel length of not less than six inches and that has
an overall length of at least 10½ inches when the handle, frame or
receiver, and barrel are assembled.

If it is built that way is it than legal to install the 8 rd mag and standard length barrel? Pardon the ignorance, just trying to learn and my Google-Fu is weak on this

[goober]

The typical way is as you described: build as dimensionally-compliant single-shot exempt (SSE) and then convert to semi-auto w/ a shorter barrel.

[Zymergist]

Another point just brought up on the other thread is sales tax. Was sales tax included in the $125? If not it will be just under $10 ($9.6875) per frame. I personally want to make sure no one on the back end gets screwed on the tax, so if needed will hand over a $20 when I pick up.

[Zymergist]

Originally Posted by goober

The typical way is as you described: build as dimensionally-compliant single-shot exempt (SSE) and then convert to semi-auto w/ a shorter barrel.

Makes sense. Is there any documentation that it was first built out that way required? Anyone interested in picking up a single round mag and long barrel to build with and resell to the next guy, or a group chip in and pass it around? (is that legal or would you have to retain the parts?)

Thanks!

[mr.]

I believe you'd need a sled, and manually load a round in the chamber. I don't think you need to keep doc's

[jingerale]

Originally Posted by Zymergist

Makes sense. Is there any documentation that it was first built out that way required? Anyone interested in picking up a single round mag and long barrel to build with and resell to the next guy, or a group chip in and pass it around? (is that legal or would you have to retain the parts?)

Thanks!

not a single round mag, a zero round mag.

[mr.]

A cheap mag with welded follower would work.

[wash]

Originally Posted by Tjfearl

Wash, I am planning on buying complete Fusion upper parts and most likely Cylinder & slide lower parts. Do you recommend an unramped barrel? I am planning on buying a 1911 armorers block and a decent set of files to help me assemble this beast. I plan on looking up those 1911 books eventually, but im more focused on college and my Navy Dive Manual at the moment. Are you using a mill or files to cut your barrel hood?

Ramped barrels mostly depend on what caliber it's chambered in.

I've got a 10mm barrel with a ramp and fully supported chamber because that's a high pressure round.

I think .38 Super barrels are usually ramped too.

I've heard .45 ACP ramped barrels might cause more feed issues than they cure so I'm only going to try a ramped barrel on a .45 Super or other high pressure .45 case design.

I am going to be using a mill for all my work with files to break edges and maybe make cuts that I can't easily set up for on a mill.

I'm no Khyber Pass gun shop, I need accurate tools to make sure I don't cut away too much.

[Tjfearl]

Originally Posted by wash

Ramped barrels mostly depend on what caliber it's chambered in.

I've got a 10mm barrel with a ramp and fully supported chamber because that's a high pressure round.

I think .38 Super barrels are usually ramped too.

I've heard .45 ACP ramped barrels might cause more feed issues than they cure so I'm only going to try a ramped barrel on a .45 Super or other high pressure .45 case design.

I am going to be using a mill for all my work with files to break edges and maybe make cuts that I can't easily set up for on a mill.

I'm no Khyber Pass gun shop, I need accurate tools to make sure I don't cut away too much.

Since this is my first 1911 I am building it in 45 ACP. I will just go ahead and get the non ramped barrel. Thanks.

[mr.]

Originally Posted by Zymergist

Another point just brought up on the other thread is sales tax. Was sales tax included in the $125? If not it will be just under $10 ($9.6875) per frame. I personally want to make sure no one on the back end gets screwed on the tax, so if needed will hand over a $20 when I pick up.

Call me a *** but why do you guys keep tring to shoot yourselfs in the foot... ghezz. The way I see it 125 is the otd price + shipping of course.... Other wise it would have said 125+tax.....

[Intimid8tor]

Originally Posted by Zymergist

Another point just brought up on the other thread is sales tax. Was sales tax included in the $125? If not it will be just under $10 ($9.6875) per frame. I personally want to make sure no one on the back end gets screwed on the tax, so if needed will hand over a $20 when I pick up.

Are you involved in this group buy as well? If not, stay out of it please. We have an agreed price, with payment made. I don't want the organizers to eat it, but if it was an issue they would have brought it up months ago.

[jingerale]

Originally Posted by Intimid8tor

Are you involved in this group buy as well? If not, stay out of it please. We have an agreed price, with payment made. I don't want the organizers to eat it, but if it was an issue they would have brought it up months ago.

I've brought this issue up in this GB many times, the organizers did not feel it was worth a reply so I'm guessing it should be fine.

[Intimid8tor]

Originally Posted by jingerale

I've brought this issue up in this GB many times, the organizers did not feel it was worth a reply so I'm guessing it should be fine.

That's my point.

[Paper Boy]

At this point, I want out.

I will not take delivery without an ATF letter. Assurances are not enough for me. If they are for the rest of you more power to you and enjoy your frame. I don't want to argue semantics or legalities.

First member to PM me with a PayPal offer of 125 gets my spot.

[Cannon-Arms]

Originally Posted by 8voice8

At this point, I want out.

I will not take delivery without an ATF letter. Assurances are not enough for me. If they are for the rest of you more power to you and enjoy your frame. I don't want to argue semantics or legalities.

First member to PM me with a PayPal offer of 125 gets my spot.

PM inbound!

[wingnut232]

Delayed.....

Bummer
http://aresarmor.com/store/index.php...99qkp756362jm2

[mr.]

Hopefully they can fill our order haha

[Cannon-Arms]

I know A lot of guys are antsy to get them, I just want them right. This doesn't bother me, I'm of the mindset, "do it right, do it right the first time no matter how long it takes" Quality matters.

My 2 cents

[NissanPreRunner]

Originally Posted by Cannon-Arms

I know A lot of guys are antsy to get them, I just want them right. This doesn't bother me, I'm of the mindset, "do it right, do it right the first time no matter how long it takes" Quality matters.

My 2 cents

x2 ^

I for one am not worried at all. As long as I get the two frames that I paid for I will be happy.