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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-16-2018, 7:00 AM
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Default California Gun Rights Lobby Day - 2018

Some folks say gun owners and gun rights advocates are helpless to make an impact on gun policy in California because they have no leverage. This may be true in the context of where people are applying the lever or particularly what fulcrum they are using.

A rally, I have argued, cannot induce movement because if you are outside the Capitol, you are too far distant to apply pressure to the load you are trying to move. Yet, folks keep making the same mistakes by suggesting a protest or a rally at the Capitol, schedule a weekend date for the sake of convenience, and carry signs and flags to communicate their indignation of being ignored by the state legislature to others who share their sentiments or others who don't really care. It produces the same results every time it is tried and the same complaints that not enough people are doing 'something'.

It is time gun rights advocates tried a different approach.

I'm suggesting that we take our indignation into the Capitol for a Gun Rights Lobby Day. The link below is an example of organizing such an event by the Connecticut Citizens Defense League, outlining the schedule and objectives.

http://www.ccdl.us/aboutmenu/events-...at-the-capitol

Our objective in lobbying however, isn't to win over undecided lawmakers (because there aren't any). Instead, our objective is to dedicate our efforts of petitioning our government for a redress of our grievances for the purposes of tying up all the legislatures resources for an entire day.

With 120 lawmakers and an 8 hour business day, to be successful, this will require mass participation (2,000-5,000), volunteers to help organize, a network to advertise the effort, sponsors or donors to provide for transportation, food, possibly lodging and raffle prizes to incentivize participation.

Now why would we go to this effort to tie up Capitol staffers, phones, and fax machines for an entire day? What good will it do?

What they cannot accomplish on this day, they will have to do on another, or not at all. By denying them this time to do what they want, we now can apply pain, albeit temporarily. Potentially, we could stymie the passage of some legislation if we can run out their clock.

But this doesn't work with just a few hundred participating and we need a date before the close of the legislative session in August. (August 6-31, with floor sessions only through the 20th- 31st)

The floor is open for discussion.



Date: TBA (August 6-31, 2018)
Time: 9am-5pm
Where: 1315 10th Street, Sacramento, CA
Second amendment advocacy partners: TBA
Transportation: Seeking donors and sponsors. TBA

Actions:
1) Contact all state legislators/staff in person for the defense of a Constitutionally enumerated right. Ask them to oppose all bills abridging the right to bear arms.
2) Contact all state legislators/staff via telephone and fax. Wash, rinse repeat until closing. Enlist friends and family unable to attend in person to do same.
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Last edited by CitaDeL; 04-16-2018 at 6:11 PM..
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Old 04-16-2018, 9:00 AM
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We need a small web site or page on CRPA or similar to get the message out. That can be reposted to social media and linked to.

Anyone from CRPA that can help out?
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Old 04-16-2018, 9:12 AM
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Put it on facebook and other media outlets and see how long it will stay posted? Can any legal leverage be applied if they take the notices down especially if they allow anti-gun postings to stay up? I would think the feds would get in on that act especially with Zuckerberg's time in front of congress lately.
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Old 04-16-2018, 9:17 AM
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Why should we be forced to use the enemy's platform as primary when we have our own? CRPA should lend a hand to help organize.

I'll post up on the NRA app once we get a linkable page...or I can link to this one. But, we need to have a date for the gathering, to start. Many people take extended vacations in August, that could be good or bad for us.

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Old 04-16-2018, 9:45 AM
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There are crunch times in the legislature when they have to pass bills or let them slide and we need to tie them up during those times especially if there are guns laws we want to fail. They have a summer break and Christmas holidays I think when they try to push special interest bills through. If they are tied up during those times they can't vote. Also why not use their platforms since they troll us on our sites. The goal is to create havoc and force them to waste time and resources chasing us around the Internet and thus less time to influence politicians and the public. use their PR tactics against them. The more we stay walled off in NRA and CRPA sites the more we are going to lose. Going on the offensive means going into their sites and doing battle there with facts and figures.
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Old 04-16-2018, 9:55 AM
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Not saying we shouldn't repost on their platforms, but FB, Twitter and the like are run by the left and can easily squelch your message, filter it, deprioritize, etc. Relying on traitors to get your message out is not going to be a winning formula. By all means, the more people that repost the harder it is for them to control the message.

This is only going to be attended by 2A supporters, most likely, anyway. In that case it does not hurt us to make the primary site a 2A-friendly one. If we can pull undecideds in for the gathering, so much the better, and having CRPA hosting would allow them to possibly grow their base. The only way the other side will show up is to counter-protest. But, given how small our showing was last week, they'll probably stay home.

Last edited by Robotron2k84; 04-16-2018 at 9:57 AM..
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:42 AM
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I'll guarantee you the lefty politicians won't show up to work that day.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I'll guarantee you the lefty politicians won't show up to work that day.
How can they vote on all their pet projects during a floor session if they do not show up that day?
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
How can they vote on all their pet projects during a floor session if they do not show up that day?
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Old 04-17-2018, 3:58 AM
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Eight comments....eight....and 363 views.

Next time start a thread about a middle aged MILF banging 12 year old boys...maybe you'll draw some interest here on Calguns.
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Old 04-17-2018, 7:12 AM
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Old 04-17-2018, 8:01 AM
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I'm in. Get CRPA involved.
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Old 04-17-2018, 9:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
Eight comments....eight....and 363 views.

Next time start a thread about a middle aged MILF banging 12 year old boys...maybe you'll draw some interest here on Calguns.
Completely not surprised.

What surprises me is that for as many people we have complaining about the turnout of an unadvertised weekend rally, they are not here trying to push the objective of getting 5,000 people off their butts and into the Capitol, with advance notice and given the option of setting a date. We have three months and an idea. This here is why honest grass roots movements are so remarkable.
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat

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Old 04-17-2018, 9:44 AM
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Personally I would change the name and drop "gun" from the title. Second amendment would sound better, unfair taxation on a minority, anything but guns because that is going to cause people to stay home. Use the word "gun" and you intimidate not encourage even if your goal is just to get your rights back.
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Old 04-17-2018, 9:58 AM
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Personally I would change the name and drop "gun" from the title. Second amendment would sound better, unfair taxation on a minority, anything but guns because that is going to cause people to stay home. Use the word "gun" and you intimidate not encourage even if your goal is just to get your rights back.
Will using the word 'gun' keep you from participating?

All the people that will be attending own at least one...
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat

“Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:20 PM
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While posting on Social media will probably get us filtered the best option is to get NRA accounts to retweet or post it. Both NRA twitter accounts I follow have a combined 690k followers. Calguns has 4500 followers and if we can get NRA to post or retweet a calguns tweet.. It can go far.

Also have Colion Noir that has over 100k followers... **** lets see if we can get David A. Clarke to retweet. He has 900k followers as well.

Do the same **** the left is doing to drown us out.. Also can do this on Instagram and Facebook.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:42 PM
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In Illinois the annual trip to the state capital for gun owners is IGOLD - Illinois Gun Owner Lobby Day. There is a rally and then visits with legislators. This year it is April 25th. http://www.isra.org/Events/AnnualEvents/iGOLD.aspxg
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Old 04-17-2018, 1:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluNorthern View Post
Eight comments....eight....and 363 views.

Next time start a thread about a middle aged MILF banging 12 year old boys...maybe you'll draw some interest here on Calguns.
Eight comments seems about par here. Watch the collection of "here's why it won't work" and "why I can't make it with more than 4 months to plan the trip" whining. In a state with < 2 million people, we had 2000 in favor of constitutional carry show up on the steps of the state capitol with FAR less than 4 months advance notice.

After August, watch for the normal tons of posts whining about how Californians are losing their few remaining 2nd Amendment rights.

It's a yearly ritual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Completely not surprised.

What surprises me is that for as many people we have complaining about the turnout of an unadvertised weekend rally, they are not here trying to push the objective of getting 5,000 people off their butts and into the Capitol, with advance notice and given the option of setting a date. We have three months and an idea. This here is why honest grass roots movements are so remarkable.
/Thread.
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Old 04-17-2018, 1:26 PM
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If this could be simplified w/web site that can be easily dragged to FB or other sites.

A great coordinating effort to painlessly allow participants to come together online with this goal to pull this off.

Also a buss from to shuttle participants to this location from a parking area area's would help immensely to gain more people to this IMHO.

I know most (many) work mon-fri but so to those at the Sac Capital, & believe there could be an impact on them, Saturday's no one's there, so no one cares, inside the offices.

Maybe this is something Idk, but H*** is it not worth a shot to screw up their day, an possibly get the visual that's needed ?

Ya ya I know, bla bla bla, ani't gonna happen
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Old 04-17-2018, 2:06 PM
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As the time approaches, should we engage FPC? They did announce the rally last weekend during Coffee with Craig, but I don't think they encouraged people to attend. Would they come to this, or do they not as a rule? The thing that sounds really good about the phone/fax/blitz is that they can't simply turn the blinds and wait for people to walk off. For that, we could coordinate here like when against the LIFE Act in 2013.

Looking back, I didn't really expect a big turnout, but I didn't want Sacramento to be empty during an announced nation-wide event, either. Gun owners in other states would, as they often already do, scoff that California isn't worth supporting since California gun owners can't be bothered to stick up for themselves. Small numbers are bad, but sitting it out sounded worse. Like someone pointed out, if only people would step up like they do in droves to buy guns and ammo during a scare. There's pics still floating around of people standing in line during the rushes in 2008 and 2013, how do we convince those people to get behind a political effort instead of simply stockpiling? To get them to commit, I think they have to see that it's:
1) credible. A lot of people dismissed last weekend out of hand because they didn't recognize the organizer behind it.
2)the phone/fax component should get people involved even if they don't have time/distance to make it to the capitol
3)clear objectives (oppose this bill, put pressure on X committee members, etc)
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Old 04-17-2018, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by WReyth View Post
As the time approaches, should we engage FPC? They did announce the rally last weekend during Coffee with Craig, but I don't think they encouraged people to attend. Would they come to this, or do they not as a rule? The thing that sounds really good about the phone/fax/blitz is that they can't simply turn the blinds and wait for people to walk off. For that, we could coordinate here like when against the LIFE Act in 2013.

Looking back, I didn't really expect a big turnout, but I didn't want Sacramento to be empty during an announced nation-wide event, either. Gun owners in other states would, as they often already do, scoff that California isn't worth supporting since California gun owners can't be bothered to stick up for themselves. Small numbers are bad, but sitting it out sounded worse. Like someone pointed out, if only people would step up like they do in droves to buy guns and ammo during a scare. There's pics still floating around of people standing in line during the rushes in 2008 and 2013, how do we convince those people to get behind a political effort instead of simply stockpiling? To get them to commit, I think they have to see that it's:
1) credible. A lot of people dismissed last weekend out of hand because they didn't recognize the organizer behind it.
2)the phone/fax component should get people involved even if they don't have time/distance to make it to the capitol
3)clear objectives (oppose this bill, put pressure on X committee members, etc)

1) No one is going to follow me because Im a surly little gray man that no one knows. This is where we need to utilize a coalition of gun rights groups ---NRA-ILA, CRPA, FPC, The Second Amendment Foundation, GOC and whoever else has a legitimate, prominent profile.

2) The phone/fax strategy is valuable because it can be done anywhere... even from your smart phone while you are waiting in line to see a legislator.

3) While stating that you are here to oppose a list of bills is fine and all, the specific objective is to overload the telecommunications system and burn staffers and lawmakers time and resources. Think of it as a flash mob for political advocacy. But it only works if we concentrate the efforts of a few thousand otherwise aimless complainers during an 8 hour work day. If we can create dread of our return, we will have succeeded--- and that would mean we would definitely do it again.
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Old 04-17-2018, 7:21 PM
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If you really want this to work *and* get media attention, you need to do it for more than one day. A week sounds about right. If you get folks to rotate so we don't have to take a full week off work, that would help.
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Old 04-17-2018, 8:51 PM
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I'll go to this one and help in the lead up to it; more than ample time to plan and get the word out, good time of the year, right before legislation breaks and the bills are far enough along in their process to cite points before final votes, etc.

Just don't place it on the days leading up to Labor Day. Make it a week-day, while legislators are in session, and STICK TO ONE CAUSE - THE 2ND AMENDMENT! SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

No discombobulation with "compromise" or any number of willy-nilly conspiracy topics, religion or otherwise, unrelated anti-government issues (even though there are plenty deserved ones in CA), no need for the camo and "tactically tactical vest, pants, jock-strap, whatever.

Think of a crowd dressing as of they were going to a business meeting or a job interview with one single, collective cause; the right to keep and bear arms.

This last "gathering" was an embarrassment. Too short of notice, amateur night, no focus, no marketing other than a weak Facebook page and the website for it wasn't much better. Most speakers and attendees did not stay on topic or event created a few of their own that had nothing to do with the purpose. Completely disjointed, proved nothing. Many in attendance looked like they were in some kind of camo-cosplay costumes.

.

.

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Old 04-18-2018, 4:25 AM
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Another thing to consider, for those of us with kids still in school, is school starting late August. I think mine goes back on 8/27.
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Old 04-18-2018, 8:02 AM
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There appears to be another state capitals 'rally' being called for on Saturday, June 2nd. I think this makes it more difficult to stay motivated by having people repeat actions that do not produce measurable results.
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Old 04-18-2018, 8:43 AM
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I'm interested in doing whatever to forward (or attempt to forward) the work to prevent further erosion of my rights.

If a list is being kept, put me on it. I own a suit, and I talk "real good". I'd be willing to jam up a few hours of lawmaker's and their aid's time.
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Old 04-18-2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
There appears to be another state capitals 'rally' being called for on Saturday, June 2nd. I think this makes it more difficult to stay motivated by having people repeat actions that do not produce measurable results.
I hear what you are saying about participation and effort fatigue, but this is as much a problem of optics as it is law and unconstitutional behavior on the part of our legislature. I would, personally, not begrudge anyone participating in a different rally, especially if there are schedule conflicts with either. It is better to have a regular presence vs no presence or a one-time show. This is how politics is.

I've written in a couple of other threads about a low-intensity silent protest, like retirees or locals to Sac start meeting daily in the Capital Cafeteria or where aids and lawmakers appear regularly, wearing something signifying 2A unity and doing it every day. Just be there, eat lunch, talk about anything you want amongst yourselves. Just need that presence, don't necessarily need to engage with others. In Vermont, its blaze-orange vests, here it could be 2A slogan shirts. Something that gets attention and under the skin of those who need reminding of their oaths, and that we are present, watching and will not be shamed into hiding.

None of that conflicts or takes away from this effort, it only adds positive pressure. The right has the moral high-ground, but we are woefully out of shape with respect to exercising our voices. We need to adopt the energy of the left (not necessarily the tactics) and evolve to be more vocal.

Last edited by Robotron2k84; 04-18-2018 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 04-18-2018, 1:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Robotron2k84 View Post
I hear what you are saying about participation and effort fatigue, but this is as much a problem of optics as it is law and unconstitutional behavior on the part of our legislature. I would, personally, not begrudge anyone participating in a different rally, especially if there are schedule conflicts with either. It is better to have a regular presence vs no presence or a one-time show. This is how politics is.

I've written in a couple of other threads about a low-intensity silent protest, like retirees or locals to Sac start meeting daily in the Capital Cafeteria or where aids and lawmakers appear regularly, wearing something signifying 2A unity and doing it every day. Just be there, eat lunch, talk about anything you want amongst yourselves. Just need that presence, don't necessarily need to engage with others. In Vermont, its blaze-orange vests, here it could be 2A slogan shirts. Something that gets attention and under the skin of those who need reminding of their oaths, and that we are present, watching and will not be shamed into hiding.

None of that conflicts or takes away from this effort, it only adds positive pressure. The right has the moral high-ground, but we are woefully out of shape with respect to exercising our voices. We need to adopt the energy of the left (not necessarily the tactics) and evolve to be more vocal.
I have no illusions that anything we think up will alter the ideology of leftist progressive gun banners. They believe that they ARE honoring their oaths to support and defend the Constitution because they view it is a 'living document' subject to the interpretation of the reader (and naturally, none of the founders valued guns so much as to endanger the safety of the general public by allowing assault weapons and concealed carry.)

Again, the object is to stop work on things they want to do- whether it is making them listen to us complain, quote the founding documents, or sharing a rendition of 'We're Not Gonna Take It'... its frustrating their efforts for one day in a manner that they dread another occurrence.

I suspect, that because the objective is not to sway senators and assembly members in a meaningful way, that none of the alphabet gun rights advocacy groups will really want to apply their credibility to such an operation. Absent a statewide coalition of supporters, I have doubts we can raise 500 people to go, let alone the numbers necessary to make it really effective.
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Old 04-19-2018, 7:23 AM
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I live a halfhour from Sac. Keepme posted

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Old 04-19-2018, 12:16 PM
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If this ever comes to fruition, I would volunteer to participate.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:40 AM
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Fascinating.

People are committed to go to war with Yeti and Citibank through a boycott that isn't really a sacrifice (since they are not actually put out by not using their products or services), but cannot be bothered with contributing to planning a single day offensive against the real enemy of liberty with months of advance notice.

It makes you wonder whether everyone is waiting for things to get so bad, that non-compliance and shooting are the only means remaining to defend against tyranny.

I guess I'm fine with that, as long as those compelled to obey can keep their criticisms of such action to themselves.
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat

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Old 04-22-2018, 11:28 AM
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I noticed the anti-gun high school kids did exactly this at the capitol this week. They went and visited each legislator individually.

You know high school kids didn't come up with this on their own. Some leftist organization organized and funded the event.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
I noticed the anti-gun high school kids did exactly this at the capitol this week. They went and visited each legislator individually.

You know high school kids didn't come up with this on their own. Some leftist organization organized and funded the event.
And what is most distressing about this is that the gun banners have less of a reason in this state than in any other to petition their legislators for more gun control. They walk in, state their case, and are welcomed with open arms.

Us, they want registered like sex offenders, disarmed, and in put in prison--- and our silence is our consent.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Now why would we go to this effort to tie up Capitol staffers, phones, and fax machines for an entire day? What good will it do?

What they cannot accomplish on this day, they will have to do on another, or not at all. By denying them this time to do what they want, we now can apply pain, albeit temporarily. Potentially, we could stymie the passage of some legislation if we can run out their clock.
For those who remember, and those who don't, this was the objective behind the week long 'Phone, Fax, Email' drills we used to do.

Yes, there was a time when California gun owners, most specifically Calgunners, would literally shut down the capital switchboard and overload the email system.
The plan was and is simple, pain or pain avoidance.

What is missing here, at least so far, is a targeted effort regarding a bill or collection of bills and coordination with someone in the capital that has the access to let the legislators and staff know what is coming, why it's coming and how to stop it from coming again regularly.
When we ran the drills several years ago we coordinated with the NRA/CRPA lobbyists who told them 'Your efforts to infringe on our rights are why your systems are overloaded with constituents right now, an why they will be again'.


To address what is missing: I can contact Dan and Roy (NRA and CRPA lobbyist) if there's a serious effort, I think I know someone who can host a web page/site easily and social media reach is an established resource already.
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Old 04-24-2018, 9:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
For those who remember, and those who don't, this was the objective behind the week long 'Phone, Fax, Email' drills we used to do.

Yes, there was a time when California gun owners, most specifically Calgunners, would literally shut down the capital switchboard and overload the email system.

The plan was and is simple, pain or pain avoidance.
Even better was when we all logged on collectively each evening, here, to discuss it, and then plan just how we would improvise our approach the next day. Discussed the replies, what they said when we called, shared the reply letters later...

Those were the days, and we really knocked it out of the park numerous times. We knew for certain we had real impact.

I remember using all 19 fax machines at work to run them nearly all early evening, simultaneously, doing lapse from machine to machine as all 19 had a different hardline phone number, to send others' letters to each and ever legislators' fax number, their Sacramento office, home offices, homes, whatever would get through, and that was back when fax machines spit out hard paper, instead of now simply sending the document to an email.

I also took those letters of others, and volunteered to make copies for them and paid for the postage myself just to be sure they mailed their individual letters to each and every legislator.

That was also a time when the direct emails were truly direct; now all the legislators have "ghost emails" they simply can ignore which is where the faxes get deposited too.

That is why I'm now such a proponent of old fashioned MAILED letters.

Real letters, written and mailed individually, not just emailed by a single easily ignored source, or a stack of the same generic letters over and over, printed out from one-click sign-up petitions by the likes of money-sucking FPC merely because it takes no effort on the part of the apathetic gun owner, to be delivered on a cart by the likes of posers (which appears to be solely for self-promotion for a career and gathering donations) that then merely get tossed in one big lump, none read. A big stack of letters saying the same pre-programmed message over and over.

Ignored.

It's that apathetic, lazy, no-effort approach "click-here is all you gotta do" that is doing us in. It has NO impact, not felling of presence because it can so easily be ignored on their end.

Email and the internet has made California gun owners lazy. They won't go to the election polls to vote for real, but get all excited and orgasmic to vote in some CNN "online" poll. Because it makes the apathetic gun owner feel like they've "done something" when really they haven't done a damned thing other than clicked their mouse for a fleeting, virtual feel-good moment, to merely be ignored.

.
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Old 04-24-2018, 9:23 PM
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to answer a question raised earlier in that if someone uses the terms gun I have no problem with that but it could cause issues with someone else who might be more pro-second amendment than just gun rights. the issue at question here is bearing arms and what does that mean. If it means gun without any question then fine use the term but left wing anti -gun people use it in a very negative way and we let them get away with it.i have no problem but i do like to look at all the possible alternatives based on my limited information. and i do have a sizable gun collection.
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Old 04-25-2018, 9:38 AM
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tagged and interested
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