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  #1  
Old 07-22-2013, 9:23 AM
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Default DON'T SHOP AT "XXXXXXX"

I chuckle a bit when I see various peoples' posts that seem to pop up once or twice a week here on Calguns, that say "DON'T SHOP AT XXXX" because of their own personal incident. It seems to be much more common as of late, in the past 6 months more than ever before, and likely because of the "newness" on the scene since 12/2012. It's sounds very "Dear Diary" to me. Most gun stores that people say they abhor, would have to burn down to ashes in that I could PHYSICALLY not shop there, in order for me to stop shopping there.

So long as it doesn't relate to an anti-2nd Amendment bent by the store, or the store clearly spreading FUD about the law that can be corroborated, if it's just all about someone's' feelings being hurt or some miscommunication about availability, paperwork, or pricing, it's going to have little influence on whether I go to some certain store or not. Why? I go to a gun store to buy guns. If there is any aspect of a deal in my favor, I am sure it's in writing in one way or another, especially something that could be conjecture, rumor, or off the record as unwritten or unadvertised.

Honestly, I don't need customer service. I walk in, I point to what I want, and say "I'll take that one". Likewise, I really don't care who is behind the counter, as I don't really need their advice, knowledge, or input other than to process the paperwork for the sale correctly. That's no offense to the wonderful people that I HAVE met at many guns stores with whom I DO like to have conversations. But for most gun stores, especially the chain-stores or high-volume stores with someone behind the counter fresh out of college and not even 1/2 my age, I don't even need them to be friendly to me; in fact, I kind of wish some of them would NOT be so friendly as it often just slows down the sale, takes up my valubale time, and I really don't want to share my personal BS with them, nor do I especially want to hear about their personal BS. They are already getting enough of my information and money as it is; let's just keep it mechanical, shall we?

I've been patronizing gun stores in California for some 20+ years, from as far north as Colfax, to as far south as San Diego, and NOT ONCE have I had these "customer service" issues that I often read of here on Calguns.

There have been numerous people that say "don't shop here, don't shop there" but then I go in that store and find something so rare or hard to find, off-roster and or one-of-a-kind, and at an excellent price, that I am somewhat glad they "won't shop there ever again". Equally, I often find the customer service aspect to be exactly opposite of their anecdotes anyway.

In that people arguing about the price of a Hi-Point or .22LR ammo, complaining about how someone made an ugly face at them that was most assuredly racist, hurting over their having to buy a gun-lock, whining that their paperwork or special circumstances in their past caused their DROS to fail (but of course, it was the dealer's fault) and/or some other pedestrian affair, that I am glad they don't shop at those stores any more.

I think if I believed every "DON'T SHOP AT XXXX" story verbatim that pops up here on Calguns, there would be no gun stores left in California to shop at. The only disservice I would be doing to anyone is myself, by limiting my resources to guns available. I've got a faceless Sociofascist government out of Sacramento already limiting my access to certain guns, number of guns, size of guns, types of caliber, and more, and as much as possible trying to close down gun stores; I won't do want Sacramento wants to do to me to myself, over someones' misunderstanding having lead to hurt feelings and hearing that one person's "Dear Diary" story for the week.

Next week they'll post a story complaining about Post Cereals for not getting big enough bunches in their box of "Honey Bunches of Oats" when really, they have something else all bunched up they need to pick out.
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If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2013, 9:34 AM
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I didn't think it was possible... a coherent, educated, well-worded, logical, accurate, and relevant post on Calguns.

I agree with very much of your post. Myself being on both sides of the counter, it's good to know there are people they understand what it all boils down to.
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Old 07-22-2013, 9:44 AM
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Good post. I have had the same kind of thoughts when reading a lot of these stories and posts. The most important thing to remember is that there are two sides to every story. For every story that is told that sure makes it sound like there was no fault on the part of the storyteller, there is always someone on the other side of that story telling someone else in the same manner - "It wasn't my fault, it was the other guy's."

I have seen people let innocent misunderstandings degrade into outright shouting matches and rage just because they have too much pride to take a step back for a minute. I have seen people get immediately defensive about things for no reason whatsoever, which only makes the other person cringe and react in kind, and the end result is almost universally unpleasant.

I'm not going to comment on any of the stories specifically, but it's clear that in at least a couple of the most recent stories told in this forum, there was fault on the part of the storyteller that they aren't willing to admit.

Gun stores deal with large amounts of people every day. Many of these people are clueless, ignorant, combative, full of attitude and in some cases they're outright *******s. Many people want something for nothing or expect special favors or courtesy simply for having walked into a store. Many people do not consider that they are neither the first, nor the last person that will annoy, either intentionally or otherwise, the person behind the counter.

Many of these disagreements and grievances can simply be solved by taking a deep breath and actually considering the other's point of view. Take a moment to apologize for raising your tone, or getting defensive, or assuming the worst of someone, and you might just be surprised how much more that will get you than demands and threats.

Also keep in mind that people who work at gun stores have laws and rules they MUST follow. They can't bend these simply because they inconvenience you. Sure, restrictions on the number of boxes of ammo you can purchase in one day suck when you're trying to stock up, but it's pretty damn unlikely that the person you're dealing with at the counter is the one who made the rule. Even in my local gun store, it's a tiny little place with room for maybe 10-15 customers at a time tops, and there's at least six or seven different employees who I have seen working there. I don't know if I have seen the owner of the store or not, but it would be foolish of me to assume that any given one of them was the owner. If it's a big store like Cabela's or Walmart, you'll never talk to the person making the rules, ever. Besides, it's their store - They get to make the rules! You're the *** for choosing not to follow them, not the store owner for making them.

If people would learn to think about others sometimes instead of always thinking about themselves, maybe we wouldn't have to have these discussions so often
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  #4  
Old 07-22-2013, 10:16 AM
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Agreed! Sometimes I wonder how bad the Calgunner's attitude was to receive crappy service.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:32 AM
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Nice and likewise i agree.
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  #6  
Old 07-22-2013, 10:52 AM
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Yeah it's pretty funny. If you check yelp most gun stores have bad reviews mostly because of customer service.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/turners-outdoorsman-chino-hills


http://www.yelp.com/biz/ammo-bros-ontario

"Definitely not the greatest gun store around. Walking into Ammo Bros, you're immediately greeted by a steel cage man trap, which isn't too inviting"




My experience is that most the time employees are kind of aloof at most gun shops. But I'm there to look at guns, not make friends with these people. Plus I research what I want to buy so I have some clue and try to not ask obvious questions, though it shouldn't be a big deal if you do ask obvious questions, I'm just saying that maybe that's why my experiences haven't been bad at these stores.

Maybe someone who works at a gunstore can shed some light on this subject from the sellers perspective.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:55 AM
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If you ever open a gun store, I'M NOT GOING TO SHOP THERE!!!
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Findout View Post
Good post. I have had the same kind of thoughts when reading a lot of these stories and posts. The most important thing to remember is that there are two sides to every story. For every story that is told that sure makes it sound like there was no fault on the part of the storyteller, there is always someone on the other side of that story telling someone else in the same manner - "It wasn't my fault, it was the other guy's."

I have seen people let innocent misunderstandings degrade into outright shouting matches and rage just because they have too much pride to take a step back for a minute. I have seen people get immediately defensive about things for no reason whatsoever, which only makes the other person cringe and react in kind, and the end result is almost universally unpleasant.

I'm not going to comment on any of the stories specifically, but it's clear that in at least a couple of the most recent stories told in this forum, there was fault on the part of the storyteller that they aren't willing to admit.

Gun stores deal with large amounts of people every day. Many of these people are clueless, ignorant, combative, full of attitude and in some cases they're outright *******s. Many people want something for nothing or expect special favors or courtesy simply for having walked into a store. Many people do not consider that they are neither the first, nor the last person that will annoy, either intentionally or otherwise, the person behind the counter.

Many of these disagreements and grievances can simply be solved by taking a deep breath and actually considering the other's point of view. Take a moment to apologize for raising your tone, or getting defensive, or assuming the worst of someone, and you might just be surprised how much more that will get you than demands and threats.

Also keep in mind that people who work at gun stores have laws and rules they MUST follow. They can't bend these simply because they inconvenience you. Sure, restrictions on the number of boxes of ammo you can purchase in one day suck when you're trying to stock up, but it's pretty damn unlikely that the person you're dealing with at the counter is the one who made the rule. Even in my local gun store, it's a tiny little place with room for maybe 10-15 customers at a time tops, and there's at least six or seven different employees who I have seen working there. I don't know if I have seen the owner of the store or not, but it would be foolish of me to assume that any given one of them was the owner. If it's a big store like Cabela's or Walmart, you'll never talk to the person making the rules, ever. Besides, it's their store - They get to make the rules! You're the *** for choosing not to follow them, not the store owner for making them.

If people would learn to think about others sometimes instead of always thinking about themselves, maybe we wouldn't have to have these discussions so often
Well said.
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2013, 12:42 PM
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Like you I know what I want when I enter the store. I also know what I want to pay. I have checked to compare prices before buying.
I prefer to have polite service and most of the time get it. If I on ocasion do not get it I either write it off to a bad day or go to the owner to resolve it if bad enough to do so.
Since I already know what I want and am very knowledgeble about firearms/shooting/reloading/hunting it takes quite a bit to irratate me. I usually just laugh inward at the people behind the counter when they give wrong advise to me or others.
Please note I have worked at a excellent gun shop during my life so I see both sides.

I do have one shop I will never go to again. I do not tell others to not go there. I just say be very careful. I was an excellent customer, spent allot of money there and brought in many others who spent money there. When I filed for divorce they wrote a value list of my firearms, most at 2-5 times their value, and even showed up in court on my ex-wifes side to try and screw me over. Maybe she gave them BJ's like she liked to do to others to get them to turn on me. I do not know. It did not work but reqiured me to do a bunch of extra work to show how bad their values were. Most were higher than same items current prices and many over MSRP. This was in a number of years ago when firearms and ammo where easy to get. Not like now.

So OP I do agree with you mostly but I do suggest to my friends that they be very careful at one shop here in Turlock. However I let them decide. So sometimes forewarned is good even if you buy from the shop someone else has had REAL trouble with. It could have cost me $40,000 dollars and to me that is real! It did cost a bunch of extra court/lawyer costs and that was real. Some of the posts are from newer people in the sport and can be written off as that. It may be true that some stores will take money on firearms/parts they know they cannot get for a long time and that is just bad business. If there is a history of that then I would like to know so I can make up my own mind about buying there.
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  #10  
Old 07-22-2013, 1:27 PM
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You must be Mother Teresa or never had a really bad experience at a gun shop. I have had great service and not so great and mentioned both on CG. Last I checked this is a "message board" where people tell about any and all experiences (most about guns). I take everything on the internet with a grain of salt and add it along with other factors to decide where I purchase. I do find it beneficial to know what experiences others have had at LGS. Some gripes are legit and others not so much. I have seen retailers step up and do the right thing because of threads on this CG.
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Old 07-22-2013, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DTOM CA! View Post
You must be Mother Teresa or never had a really bad experience at a gun shop. I have had great service and not so great and mentioned both on CG. Last I checked this is a "message board" where people tell about any and all experiences (most about guns). I take everything on the internet with a grain of salt and add it along with other factors to decide where I purchase. I do find it beneficial to know what experiences others have had at LGS. Some gripes are legit and others not so much. I have seen retailers step up and do the right thing because of threads on this CG.
Agree, Its nice to hear ppls experiences. I've been to a few gun stores and have received attitude. Thats why I only shop at a few stores.
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Old 07-22-2013, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
If you ever open a gun store, I'M NOT GOING TO SHOP THERE!!!
Ha! Lol. Me too
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Old 07-22-2013, 6:26 PM
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I read the posts your are referring too, but I am still willing to give these stores a shot.

On a side note and I'm not going to turn this into a bash XXXX shop post. I have one shop near me which receives an F in customer service. I have another shop 15-20 minutes away down the freeway that receives an A. I was never treated how some of these other guys mention, but Ill take the drive based on general customer service. I always know what I want when I walk in as well.
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Old 07-22-2013, 6:45 PM
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I've never even been to XXXXXXX, is that up north...?
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Old 07-22-2013, 6:49 PM
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My favorite shop has been trashed here a couple of times.I still get treated very well there.

I think all those posts should be viewed as one side of a story.
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Old 07-22-2013, 6:55 PM
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I don't really pay attention to the negative reviews. I prefer to find out for myself. One of the shops close to me had a few horrible reviews but it is one of my most favorite places. People are more likely to take the time to write a negative review than a positive review because they are filled with anger and want to express that. I do take the positive reviews under account just for that reason.
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Old 07-22-2013, 7:55 PM
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I had a store tell me over the phone after some talking to come on in and he'd find me something in my price range when I called asking for an AR for around $800-$1000. I drove over half an hour then when I got there he said "I don't have anything in your price range". That's after he helped other people when I was there 1st and patiently standing right in front of him waiting for him to finish with a customer to begin with. I was like wtf that's not what you said when I talked to you on the phone. He just kinda shrugged...F*** that store lol.

Sometimes the threads are lame and I' am not sure I even posted a review unasked but I HAVE told the story a time or two when someone specifically asked about that store.
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Old 07-22-2013, 8:09 PM
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[QUOTE

My experience is that most the time employees are kind of aloof at most gun shops.

Maybe someone who works at a gunstore can shed some light on this subject from the sellers perspective.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, most of my experiences as a customer in gun shops are similar. I worked at a certain Turners Outdoorsman from 1990 thru 94. We had a wide mix of salespeople. Some were knowledgeable, patient, with good sales skills. Some had none of those characteristics. Mgt did their best, considering it was slightly better than minimum wage pay. For those of us that know what we want, price and availability are the main focus. For the rest of the customers who are looking for information or considering a purchase it's probably not pleasant. I couldn't imagine walking into Home Depot trying to buy the right faucet part and asking how to replace it if I was treated like I was at a gun store.
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Old 07-22-2013, 8:16 PM
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+1 OP, I believe some people just feel entitled to everything they demand even if it goes against a store policy or it's just not possible. "The customer is always right" mentality is not accurate, it's just something created so that businesses can keep customers happy enough to come back. While sometimes I walk into a LGS knowing what I want, despite their customer service, something I will make the extra 50 mile drive for something I am unsure of just to get better customer service. It does play a role.


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Old 07-22-2013, 8:24 PM
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The OP is dead on.

My experience is the same as his.

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Old 07-22-2013, 8:40 PM
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The OP is whining about whiners. Sharing bad experience is helpful specially if it shows a pattern of bad customer service on a particular gunstore.
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Old 07-22-2013, 8:44 PM
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I agree, being female I walked into 5 different stores, not once did I ever feel like the CS was sub par. Heck non of the shops treated me any different then anyone else in the shop looking at toys. One shop while admiring a colt commander ss there was a sharp edge some where that had my finger bleeding like a stuck pig. No issues. Paper towel and we were GTG

I walked in one day, different shop, looked at the Baer, said give me at complete total, including doc fees, and 1000 rds. Wanted to make sure I had the cash. The rep was nice enough, realized I new what I wanted, saw how I handled the gun etc..

I said give me your name, I assume you work off commission, yep. Ok what days are you off?

Had the cash the next day but needed to wait 3 days because of the reps schedule. Walked in looked at the baer and then saw that they had the TRP A1 in stock in SS which I don't like SS, he went in the back brought out a brand new Black TRP a1 said they just got it in that morning. Lucky me.

Said Ill take it, did the docs, handed the cash and was the new owner with a 10 day wait.
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Old 07-22-2013, 8:47 PM
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How about all these threads with positive experiences? I recently read a thread about EBR's awesome customer service, should we stop posting about that as well.
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Old 07-22-2013, 9:03 PM
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I posted where I've mentioned a LGS that I have bought from a couple of times. As the thread progressed there were a couple of posts complaining about said LGS. I tend to wonder if some of these posters go in with a crappy attitude and end up having it mirrored back to them?
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Old 07-22-2013, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smith and wesson View Post

Maybe someone who works at a gunstore can shed some light on this subject from the sellers perspective.
Maybe I can help. I work at gun store in southern california.

First off, in my opinion Yelp is a terrible place to research gun stores. I think people that have a bad experience at a gun store are much more likely to write about their experience than someone who had a satisfactory or great experience. This leads to reviews being skewed in the negative direction. Also, the reviews only paint a picture of one moment in time. The employee that the reviewer is writing about could have gotten fired or the store could have cleaned up their act if indeed the store had a genuine problem.

Continuing the discussion:

Yes, we gun store employees talk to many many many people everyday. People who say that they don't want a Glock or M&P because they have kids at home and they want the gun to have a safety so their kids are somehow unable to fire it. That's one of my biggest pet peeves.

We also talk to people who blatantly tell us they will break the law after we inform them that they cannot buy 30 round mags or that a particular handgun they want to purchase is unavailable due to its not being on the Approved List. "Well I'll just get my cop buddy to buy it for me." or "thats ok Ill just get my buddy in AZ to buy it and then bring it out here". I seriously am blown away more and more every day.

Moving on...

Gun store employees also do not know everything about guns. They don't know anywhere close to that. We don't know if that Browning A-Bolt special edition NRA 100th anniversary is still in production.

We also get the question every hour it seems as to why there is an ammo shortage. "Where's all the .22?" "When are you getting more?" All I can say back is I dont know.


On the topic of whether or not people's experiences at stores are the fault of the dealer or the customer's over-sensitivity I will say this: I think FFL employees who clearly show a lack of enthusiasm and customer service skills can drive people away. The OP seems like a customer who goes in, says 'i want that' and walks out. But there are many other types of customers. Some of first-timers, some are still getting into it, some don't even know if they want a gun yet. Some just have questions.

You also have to remember, many gun store employees are ex-leos, ex military, and some of them are just flat out grumpy. And very little will change their attitude. For these guys, Id say toughen up, or dont talk to them. I know I personally try my very best to satisfy the customers needs and not try to push my own tastes onto the customer. I have a co-worker who HATES glocks. He won't show glocks to people, and rarely has anything nice to say about them.

This is a bit rambling now..lol.

Anyways, my main point is that FFL employees probably actually hear more FUD than they dish out. I hear new conspiracy theories every day and apparently all of the bills have been signed into law too. Not really, people just don't understand how a bill becomes a law and think that since SB 374 passed the assembly or senate, that its automatically law (another pet peeve of mine. Take a damn civics course).

I think it can go on both sides. Sometimes, FFL employees need to be fired. Other times, the customer needs to grow up.

Hope you enjoyed my border-line coherent rant on FFL employee pet peeves
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Old 07-22-2013, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Malmon View Post
How about all these threads with positive experiences? I recently read a thread about EBR's awesome customer service, should we stop posting about that as well.
No, people complain a lot more than they praise. That's why I would listen to a positive post over a negative one. Like someone stated above, I don't want to go into a place with a negative view clouding my judgement because peoples tastes differ. Some people love Walmart. I would rather run around naked on I-5 then go there.
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Old 07-22-2013, 9:33 PM
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My most recent trip to the LGS I asked if they had some steel cased .223 and the guy that I asked said he had never heard of such a thing. He Is my grandfathers age. The time before that I bought a sling for my dad's rifle and a different guy helped me and gave me free sling swivels for the sling. You can't judge the store by one trip or one employee.
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Old 07-22-2013, 9:46 PM
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I don't think the OP is even sane... how can he think like that? You gotta be a finger pointer and band wagon jumper-onner.
You must be irrational and truly believe that your feelings are on top of the business food chain. Every body owes you- the consumer- total undeserved respect.

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Old 07-22-2013, 9:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedrek View Post
No, people complain a lot more than they praise. That's why I would listen to a positive post over a negative one. Like someone stated above, I don't want to go into a place with a negative view clouding my judgement because peoples tastes differ. Some people love Walmart. I would rather run around naked on I-5 then go there.
That was meant to be a rhetorical question. Just want to point out the hypocrisy of some here that have no issues when reading about positive gunstore experiences, yet seems to think that bad transactions are most likely the fault of the customer.

Gunstore employees can do no wrong, they are definitely right all the time.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:30 PM
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I don't know about this. I went to this new LGS called Lib Guns to get some work done to a couple of my guns and they never gave them back. I hate that place.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:35 PM
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No one's going to stop me from going to XXX stores.
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Old 07-23-2013, 5:10 AM
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I already know what I want when I go in there. I've done all my homework about price etc.. I just point my finger and say 'i'll take it'

Never had a 'customer service' issue either.
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Old 07-23-2013, 6:31 AM
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8 out of 10 times I know what I want when I go in as well. But sometimes I will wonder into a store on a whim to see if there is anything that catches my eye. If there is, and the guy behind the counter is a DB, or full of FUD I will usually pass. There is a difference to "undeserved respect" and basic courtesy. I, the consumer, demand courtesy. I'll earn my respect as you get to know me, my background, beliefs, etc..., and I'll offer the seller (employee) the same courtesy extended to me. My "review" will be if the store gets my money or not. Sometimes I am more than happy to drive a little further and pay a little more than support rudeness.
I'm not saying "the customer is always right", but they need to feel they are.
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Old 07-23-2013, 8:32 AM
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This thread is as useless and useful as the next "don't shop at XXXXX" thread.
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Old 07-23-2013, 8:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmon View Post
The OP is whining about whiners. Sharing bad experience is helpful specially if it shows a pattern of bad customer service on a particular gunstore.
Oh no, not at all. Whining is not one of my proclivities; I don't even think I did that as a baby. I was more of a precocious, contemplative tot.

What I am expressing is, without being rude in responding to any one particular thread of that kind, and not be seen as a thread-crapping heathen, is to give some form of report back to those vacuous one-side threads; letting such whiners know that their posts will not be taken religiously, will have no effect on me and my shopping pursuits whatsoever, and will always be met with skepticism due to my numerous years of better experience, and quite simply ignored. In essence, they should save their breath and reduce the potential for arthritic fingers in their old age, caused by aggressive typing over a misinterpretation and misconception at a gun store.
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What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee-pete View Post
I don't know about this. I went to this new LGS called Lib Guns to get some work done to a couple of my guns and they never gave them back. I hate that place.
So you didn't do anything about it? Why did they keep them? This is why I don't listen to "bad" experiences because you usually don't get to hear both sides.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
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So you didn't do anything about it? Why did they keep them? This is why I don't listen to "bad" experiences because you usually don't get to hear both sides.
Its a joke. Get it, Lib Guns. As in liberals taking our guns.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:37 PM
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I think most of the noise comes from these entitled members of the ME!!! generation that believe they are oh, so very special. Thinking the world is their mommy, just waiting for an opportunity to bask for a second in their reflected brilliance.

As a guitar builder/repairman, I get three doses per day of "internet educated" little twits who expect to be treated like the Sultan of Brunei, even though they have no money and probably never did anything for anyone else in their lives. "I AM WONDERFUL!!! YOU ARE LUCKY THAT I WOULD EVEN SPEAK TO YOU!!! MY RESPONSE TO ANY ADVERSITY IS TO THROW A TEMPER TANTRUM AND DEMAND TO SPEAK TO THE MANAGER!!!"

Too many people believe the myth that "The customer is King." That only works when the other guy worships money. When I encounter a bad customer, I send them up the road, immediately, without any regrets or second thoughts.

It's easy to get along in life, even with cantankerous gun shop employees, by showing courtesy and respect, and by having reasonable expectations. I mean if you are not the Pope, don't expect people to be kneeling before you and kissing your ring.

If I want my *** kissed, I hire a professional.

Last edited by Khromo; 07-23-2013 at 12:40 PM..
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:54 PM
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you all need to do some business at R&J in granite bay. (if only to learn the value of a friendly heads up)
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Old 07-23-2013, 1:56 PM
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I can agree and disagree with the OP. I'm local to Turners Reseda, which is one of the largest FUD dispensers in California. Knowing what to expect, I go in, grab what I need, and get out.

If I want good customer service, I know where to go. I can drive 20 minutes North to Addax Tactical, 20 minutes South to Martin Retting, or 20 minutes West to EBR Works.

Speaking of Turners, as a whole, they received so many online complaints that they launched a new customer service campaign in 2012 to bring customers back in, so posting reviews based on personal experiences does work, and it does get their attention.
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