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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #121  
Old 07-30-2018, 9:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumble phish View Post
I picked this one up from PSA just a couple of days ago. I had been checking their page for months and when it popped up I jumped on it. Good thing too, as it was sold out that day.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516446935.html

For you guys doing the "conversion" kits on a 5.56/.223 upper thinking that you're in the clear and don't have to worry about features or the law, think again. The second you remove the bolt, even to clean it, you will have what is considered a "broken" assault weapon that will still be legally considered an AW. There is also the problem with "constructive possession", if you have other 5.56/.223 bolts available to place into the upper, along with a lower that has "features".

My solution is to use a dedicated .22lr upper, and pair it with a lower that cannot accept an upper with a bolt carrier group other than a .22lr one. I will accomplish this by filling the buffer tube with a plug and epoxy.
I do not believe CA has a constructive possession law on the books (notwithstanding Nuyen who freely admitted he intended to construct an AW).
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  #122  
Old 07-30-2018, 9:51 AM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
I hear that, but if accuracy was really not comparable to a 10/22, Sig522, or whatever... I'd opt to shoot one of those instead. I went with a CMMG dedicated lightweight upper on a complete poly lower. The New Frontier lower works great after replacing the trigger group with an old Busmaster group... but I will swap in a CMC or Hiperfire EDT3 sooner or later. I shoot that AR22 with a TRS-25 FWIW. It hits where I put the dot.

I looked long and hard at the conversion bolts before I put the AR22 together.
Your choice.

I didn't want a dedicated 22 upper or rifle.

Using a 223 upper w/the conversion kit gives me the option to shoot either 22 or 223 thru it by simply swaping out the BCG. The cost of the kit and mags is also cheaper and IMO easier to resell than a dedicated 22 upper or complete rifle.

Furthermore, from what I've seen/read on the Net, there is not that much loss in accuracy out to 100 yds shooting a 22 bullet out of a 223 barrel and and it is even less of an issue at 50 yds, which is as far as I plan to shoot it.
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  #123  
Old 07-30-2018, 9:55 AM
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I'm glad I came across this thread. I picked up one of the 22LR clearance Uppers from PSA with the phosphate bolt and a pair of blackdog mags for $300. I'm not even sure I want to do a 22LR build as the purchase was rather impulsive, but this thread makes me think these builds are worth it.

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  #124  
Old 07-30-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sgt1372 View Post
Your choice.

I didn't want a dedicated 22 upper or rifle.
Agreed. Totally personal choice.

Yeah not arguing, but it is a forum where others are making up their minds too, so that's how I look at it. It is never just the OP getting one question answered, but whoever reads the thread.

My experience was that I wanted the correct barrel and twist for shooting .22 LR mini-mags or whatever, and I'd only use a polymer lower on a rimfire. It gave me an option to make a super light, accurate AR22, YMMV.
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  #125  
Old 07-30-2018, 11:23 AM
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Someone mentioned just get a 10-22 they work better. I own both types. That is a Nonsense statement. Whoever said this likely does not even have any experience with AR22s. Internet gets that way you know.

A good dedicated 22 AR upper will run 100%. Mine are well built and never, ever malfunction with good ammo. CCI is what I like best.

And the AR22s are alot more fun for some reason than a plain old 10-22 also.

Last edited by AR22; 07-30-2018 at 11:26 AM..
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  #126  
Old 08-04-2018, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR22 View Post
Someone mentioned just get a 10-22 they work better. I own both types. That is a Nonsense statement. Whoever said this likely does not even have any experience with AR22s. Internet gets that way you know.

A good dedicated 22 AR upper will run 100%. Mine are well built and never, ever malfunction with good ammo. CCI is what I like best.

And the AR22s are alot more fun for some reason than a plain old 10-22 also.



Train like you MEAN it. If a full-size AR is your go-to rifle, an AR in .22 makes a perfect trainer. AND, you have a spare lower that's GTG, if needed.
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  #127  
Old 08-04-2018, 8:57 AM
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I also have ARs in 5.56x45 and 7.62x39
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  #128  
Old 08-04-2018, 9:15 AM
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My upper came in. Bought a cheap CCOP mount and had an extra scope around. Stuck it on one of my AR lowers. Looks and feels good! I cycled some dummy rounds and the action seems good.

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  #129  
Old 08-05-2018, 1:59 AM
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When I build my lower, should I install the buffer retaining pin? Also should I get one of those rubber buffer plugs or just leave the buffer out? Or?

My upper has a plate on the back of it. Is this so I don't need that plug or what? Just trying to learn. Will be building out my lower tomorrow.

I will be using a psa moe lower build kit I got for $99

Last edited by jimbo74; 08-05-2018 at 3:01 AM.. Reason: better pic
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  #130  
Old 08-05-2018, 2:52 AM
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Could you take a blurrier, and less specific picture? I can still make out your thumb and right foot...
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  #131  
Old 08-05-2018, 5:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
When I build my lower, should I install the buffer retaining pin? Also should I get one of those rubber buffer plugs or just leave the buffer out? Or?

My upper has a plate on the back of it. Is this so I don't need that plug or what? Just trying to learn. Will be building out my lower tomorrow.

I will be using a psa moe lower build kit I got for $99
Im not sure what plate you're referring to... but in your picture, that simply looks like the back of the bolt. I would recommend you complete the lower as you would normally, so go ahead and install all of the pins, springs, etc. I recommend this because it allows you to use the pressure plug, which helps with overall reliability of the rifle. Simply install your carbine buffer spring but instead of using a standard 223/556 buffer, use the pressure plug. The pressure plug is made of Delrin, not rubber.
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  #132  
Old 08-05-2018, 8:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
When I build my lower, should I install the buffer retaining pin? Also should I get one of those rubber buffer plugs or just leave the buffer out? Or?

My upper has a plate on the back of it. Is this so I don't need that plug or what? Just trying to learn. Will be building out my lower tomorrow.

I will be using a psa moe lower build kit I got for $99


What brand upper are you using? Is the plate part of the bolt assembly or attached to the upper receiver?
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  #133  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:06 AM
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it is a psa upper, it is part of the bolt, but I can't figure out how to remove the bolt if I ever need to

I did just order a plug from velocity firearms

I saw a video online where the plug goes in there, after the regular buffer [spring, buffer, then plug?]
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  #134  
Old 08-05-2018, 4:56 PM
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Got my receiver out of jail! An Aero M4E1!!!

I like that I wont have to do any roll pins! I just need to hit up Lowe's and get a 4-40 grub screw and an Allen wrench set. I will do that today, after my massage.


Oh yeah, and shout out to UG Imports! They are awesome!
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  #135  
Old 08-05-2018, 6:09 PM
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The BCG doesn't come out with the charging handle like a standard 5.56 bolt would?
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  #136  
Old 08-05-2018, 11:51 PM
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Went the CMMG .22LR conversion route.
After a recent AR rebuild, had a .223/5.56 pencil barrel and handguard lying around so I decided just to have a dedicated upper for .22LR indoor range duty. Slapped on an old Vortex Strikefire red dot that was gathering dust. Shot it for the first time today and happy with it, wasn't too expensive and accurate enough for drills and plinking. Two failures to fully feed with fresh mags (most likely my fault as you need to let that charging handle snap as designed) but otherwise, it cycled reliably through a couple hundred rounds using CCI standard velocity ammo.

Watch on YouTube full screen HD to see the actual target hits at 10yds. Video taken with Sidekick Mounts Direct to Rail GoPro Session mount.




Target at 25 yards using Vortex red dot sight


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Last edited by jimster716; 08-05-2018 at 11:55 PM..
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  #137  
Old 08-06-2018, 1:53 AM
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Here is mine pretty much completed. A couple issues, how do you get the bolt out? I want to lube it. 4-40 set screw seems impossible to find, I may have to order it on Amazon. Do I have to remove my grip if I want to adjust the upper tension screw? I still need to tighten down the buffer.

I totally shot a detent and spring somewhere when putting in the pivot pin, good thing I had some extras in my tool bag.
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  #138  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
it is a psa upper, it is part of the bolt, but I can't figure out how to remove the bolt if I ever need to

I did just order a plug from velocity firearms

I saw a video online where the plug goes in there, after the regular buffer [spring, buffer, then plug?]
The .22LR BCG assembly does slide out, but PSA doesn't add lube after test-firing (what did you expect, it's PSA), so it may be a bit "sticky" the first time field stripping ... simply stick a screwdriver or hex wrench tip in that gap on the left side of your photo to pry the BCG out (while pulling out the charging handle latch).

I didn't use a buffer, buffer spring, or buffer retainer/spring for my dedicated rimfire lower; instead, I cut a length of cheap 1/2" PVC pipe from Home Depot, and fashioned a condom out of an old bicycle inner tube to provide a snug fit inside the buffer tube (also provides a bit of flex when the BCG plate butts up against it, like that commercial plug product). Cheap, and no spring rattle. Some other guys report using a simple wooden dowel, but wood is heavier and less-flexible.
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  #139  
Old 08-06-2018, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimster716 View Post
Went the CMMG .22LR conversion route.
After a recent AR rebuild, had a .223/5.56 pencil barrel and handguard lying around so I decided just to have a dedicated upper for .22LR indoor range duty. Slapped on an old Vortex Strikefire red dot that was gathering dust. Shot it for the first time today and happy with it, wasn't too expensive and accurate enough for drills and plinking. Two failures to fully feed with fresh mags (most likely my fault as you need to let that charging handle snap as designed) but otherwise, it cycled reliably through a couple hundred rounds using CCI standard velocity ammo.
My CMMG 22LR conversion kit in a benched 16" M4 carbine barrel w/a TRS-25 red dot produced the following results using an NRA 25 yard slow fire bullseye target:

At 25 yards mostly in the X ring (1 5/8") and all w/in the 10 ring (3 5/16"). At 50 yards, mostly in the 10 ring and all in the 9 ring (5.5") which is equivalent to keeping all of the shots in the 10 ring on a 200 yard NRA (reduction of a 300 yard military) target. Probably could have kept all of the shots in the X ring at 25 yards if I took more time to "aim" between shots but I don't think additional time/attn to accuracy would have helped at 50 yards, because the red dot completely covered the black of the target and no further aim adjustments would have been possible.

Haven't shot it at 100 yards, didn't see the point in doing so given the results at 50, but would expect the pattern to expand further to (at best) w/in the 9 ring (8.5") on the 200 yard NRA target when shooting at 100 yards. May test this prediction later.

Good enough for target shooting, plinking and small game hunting w/in 50 yards but not reliable enough (for my taste) beyond that range.
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  #140  
Old 08-06-2018, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
4-40 set screw seems impossible to find, I may have to order it on Amazon.
I ordered a box of 10 from McMaster-Carr. If you were local I'd just give you one, but I'm in So Cal.
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  #141  
Old 08-06-2018, 2:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_SF View Post
..... Cheap, and no spring rattle. Some other guys report using a simple wooden dowel, but wood is heavier and less-flexible.
There is absolutely zero concern for spring rattle when using 22lr bolts with spring and buffer in the buffer tube, as the buffer spring barely even moves, if at all. I find that using the 223/556 buffer + spring makes the rifle better balanced than without them.
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  #142  
Old 08-06-2018, 5:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperchasin View Post
I find that using the 223/556 buffer + spring makes the rifle better balanced than without them.
Balance also depends on which buttstock is used ... I used a LMT SOPMOD (which originally came with my LMT lower), which is already heavier (especially with spare batteries in the storage pods of the buttstock).

In the end, it's all good - just different ways to achieve the same outcome.
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  #143  
Old 08-09-2018, 11:02 AM
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Just got my 100 pack of 4-40 x 1/8 set screws
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  #144  
Old 08-09-2018, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
Just got my 100 pack of 4-40 x 1/8 set screws
Next time you need an odd set screw the hardware store on Harbor Blvd. in West Sac across the street from les Schwab has any an every size you can dream of. I donít know if you in this area or not but in case you are.
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  #145  
Old 08-09-2018, 2:36 PM
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Not even close to sac...

I probably could have gotten what I needed @ my local ace hardware. But, for the $8.25 shipped to my house, it was more convienient than me trying to do it before work.
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  #146  
Old 08-09-2018, 5:42 PM
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Just ordered an upper from Palmetto.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516446934.html

Now I need to go shopping for a lower this weekend. I was wanting a Walther MP5 clone but this thread convinced me to go .22lr AR instead.
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  #147  
Old 08-10-2018, 12:39 AM
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Changed my mind and decided to buy a S&W Performance Center 15/22 Sport rifle instead.

Was going to use the CMMG conversion kit that I already have w/a S&W M&P 15/22 Sport Optics Ready carbine that was on sale for just $499 but it looked to similar to the Windham Weaponry M4 upper that I already have and, since I don't have a 22LR anyway, it just made better sense to by the 15/22 PC instead. I can also attach the A2 flash hider that came off the WW M4 upper to the M&P 15/22 to make it a fully featured gun which is entirely legal since it's a rim fire.

I can still use the CMMG conversion kit w/the WW M4 upper if I need a 2nd 22LR for a friend/relative to use and I'm building a light weight "featureless" Aero Precision lower specifically for that upper, since the WW M4 lower has been converted to featureless using a Thordsen stock which is too heavy for the carbine but perfect to use w/my Oak Armament 26" S/S bull barrel match upper as the platform for a longer range target shooting.
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Last edited by sgt1372; 08-10-2018 at 1:07 AM..
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  #148  
Old 08-11-2018, 6:35 AM
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Got that plug, it is delrin or something similar.

Got my bcg out, is it supposed to be this dry?! I just kept yanking the charging handle hard, until it spit out the back.

Did I break my bcg? The conversion kits I say online had another part on the front?
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  #149  
Old 08-11-2018, 7:16 AM
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Looks fine. The "front" part is the chamber adapter....the part that is like a donut that goes over the barrel when you insert the BCG.. its attached to the bolt and can be removed if needed... but be careful because the bolt will come flying off if its removed.

I'd recommend a few drops of oil along the rails of the bolt.
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  #150  
Old 08-11-2018, 10:18 AM
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Is there anything wrong with me just coating the heck out of the inside of that?

I like my ARs like I like my women, wet....
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  #151  
Old 08-11-2018, 10:30 AM
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Mine is coated with a thin layer of Slip 2000 EWL. That helps in cleaning. It also fixed any hang-ups and stuck casings. I also coat the innards of the upper as that makes it easy to wipe clean and prevents rubbing spots.

EWL is very thin but doesn't evaporate. A thin layer is all that is needed.
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  #152  
Old 08-11-2018, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
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Is there anything wrong with me just coating the heck out of the inside of that?

I like my ARs like I like my women, wet....
The only concern I would have is dirt and cycling issues. In case you didn't already know, 22lr firearms can be finicky. I personally use a light grease on mine and have no problems using CCI ammo.
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  #153  
Old 08-11-2018, 3:30 PM
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this is my first 22lr, so I have no idea about it. I do know for the regular 5.56 that you can never have too much oil.... I was just concerned how it is dry gray on the inside! you can even somewhat see where there was some oil splashed in there, and it made the metal a different color..... I am just wondering if I put oil on a rag and wipe it over everything if that is good? or what? My 5.56 bcgs actually sit in ziplocs with oil...


Well, I wiped it all down with a qtip and liberal tears. Also squirted some in the lower as well. Got the set screw in the rear takedown, and the buffer is torqued to 40 ft/lbs. Ended up buying a magpul wrench, as I somehow rounded the teeth off the junk wrench I had. And picked up 2 new castle nuts as well. Also has a buffer in it, with that plastic plug.

Does psa test fire these before shipment? Or should I still have my headspace checked?

Last edited by jimbo74; 08-11-2018 at 4:09 PM..
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