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  #1  
Old 12-10-2018, 5:38 PM
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Default AR Maglock Gen 2 & Kingpin Users - Pros & Cons?

If you have the AR Maglock Gen 2 and KingPin system, please let me know your thoughts of the pros and cons from using it.
Can you really clear malfunctions or double feeds without removing front and/or back takedown pins?
I want your honest opinion.
One option is featureless so I'm looking for a second option. Thank you for your help!
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2018, 5:45 PM
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2018, 7:36 PM
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Yes, yes you can
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2018, 9:21 PM
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I have that combo on my AR. It works REALLY well. Well enough that co-workers are considering switching to it from featureless. I've had about five other people try it out, and they pick it up a lot easier than other systems.

It makes mag swaps a lot less complicated than other systems I've tried, and it does actually work with the bolt back which was very surprising. I've been running it for a couple months now and it's my favorite California neutering.

My only complaints:
1) It's still a neutering, but what can you do?
2) It's possible to hit the kingpin if you fat finger your safety. I've got an ambi now which reduces my reliance on the left side where the kingpin is.
3) The release button needs to be locktited in and screwed in carefully so it's not pivoted too far up or down. It's very thin, and the opening is also very thin, so if you don't position it correctly it'll just bang against the upper or the lower, at worst it's thin enough I worry it could snap, though it seems like it's pretty sturdy so far. I had it back out a few times before I used locktite. I wasn't ready to go semi-permanent when I was doing my initial testing.

All in all, I personally like and use rifle features enough to justify the Maglock and Kingpin. That said, I know people who are perfectly happy with their Thordsens and Sparrows. It can be pricey trying everything out, but it's hard to say what will work for your needs.

Last edited by SJZ_Katsu; 12-10-2018 at 9:29 PM..
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:16 PM
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You do have to tune it to your specific upper/lower receiver gap and adjust the mag lock accordingly, but it works as described. It is just about as fast as a free state release. You also have to really make sure that your upper and lower are closed before sending the bolt home and by that, I mean the tolerances to your setup. Sometimes you think it's closed, but it's not. Still, I like the setup and it is a good alternative to training with an AR-15 as it was intended.

Downside is you cannot use mags over 10-rnds like on a featureless. Of course the unknown of firing while the upper and lower aren't fully closed. What will happen? Who knows.
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2018, 6:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daily5.0 View Post
If you have the AR Maglock Gen 2 and KingPin system, please let me know your thoughts of the pros and cons from using it.
Can you really clear malfunctions or double feeds without removing front and/or back takedown pins?
I want your honest opinion.
One option is featureless so I'm looking for a second option. Thank you for your help!
I'm in LA and if you shoot at Burro you're welcome to try it out there on my rifle.
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2018, 8:32 AM
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Do any of these devises work, without the removal of bolt catch ?

Curious thanks
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2018, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano3467 View Post
Do any of these devises work, without the removal of bolt catch ?

Curious thanks


The AR Maglock Gen 2 and Kingpin you can keep your bolt catch. In fact most of them you can keep your bolt catch but you have the added step of needing to drop the bolt before opening the receiver. The Kingpin/Gen2 combo alleviates the need to do that so you can drop the mag with the bolt back


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  #9  
Old 12-11-2018, 9:42 AM
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I like it. It's harder to remember to keep the action apart when there is no mag than it is to actually use it. With a BAD lever its all one handed manipulation, support hand is only needed to insert mag and go back to fore end and snap upper shut, use strong hand to drop the bolt.
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2018, 4:13 PM
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Works as described. Love it on my 10.5” AR pistol.
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2018, 5:33 PM
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i have that combo. works as intended, but i do have a enough play that the thin lip hits the lower from time to time. i'm not 'training' so it doesn't really matter to me if i have to hit the mag release a second time.

i did play with the calcatch at the lgs and it's pretty slick. i'll eventually give it a try as well. but even with that, i'm keeping my kingpin. i only wish it came in black

double feeds. i had em last time out and i was able to clear them fairly easily. my upper doesn't open far enough with the bolt back to drop the mag but i can see how some setups would allow that. if yours does, life is easy. i just dropped the bottom plate of the mag.
i suppose you could fish it out manually because the maglock keeps the bolt hold function, but i have fat fingers.
correct me if i'm wrong, but the loss of the bolt hold is what i believe makes it tough with the hellfighter system.
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2018, 3:40 PM
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Thank you for all your responses. I really appreciate them.

Now......decisions, decisions....ugh...

Can I live with Sparrow grip, no front grip and no Flash hider or use Maglock? Grrr....CA gun laws suck *****.
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2018, 5:20 PM
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The key to clearing jams is removing that mag floor plate.
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  #14  
Old 12-17-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekkthree View Post
i have that combo. works as intended, but i do have a enough play that the thin lip hits the lower from time to time. i'm not 'training' so it doesn't really matter to me if i have to hit the mag release a second time.

i did play with the calcatch at the lgs and it's pretty slick. i'll eventually give it a try as well. but even with that, i'm keeping my kingpin. i only wish it came in black

double feeds. i had em last time out and i was able to clear them fairly easily. my upper doesn't open far enough with the bolt back to drop the mag but i can see how some setups would allow that. if yours does, life is easy. i just dropped the bottom plate of the mag.
i suppose you could fish it out manually because the maglock keeps the bolt hold function, but i have fat fingers.
correct me if i'm wrong, but the loss of the bolt hold is what i believe makes it tough with the hellfighter system.


BLACK KINGPINS AVAILABLE

https://armaglock.com/product/ar-mag...-5-56-kingpin/

Choose black from the pulldown menu
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  #15  
Old 12-21-2018, 7:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
BLACK KINGPINS AVAILABLE

https://armaglock.com/product/ar-mag...-5-56-kingpin/

Choose black from the pulldown menu

Bad link


..
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  #16  
Old 12-21-2018, 9:14 PM
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Thanks for pointing that out


https://armaglock.com/product/ar-mag...-5-56-kingpin/


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  #17  
Old 12-22-2018, 10:13 AM
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I have the PMR (Patriot Mag Release) made by bullet button. it works as it should. I went featureless with one rifle, and had to leave this on an AR Pistol for compliance. Ive compared a few of the mag lock items and PMR was just on sale at the time when i purchased them.

Pros, Cheap, easy to install, PMR has a set screw which can be removed (with tool) when upper is open to make the button act as a normal mag release (when you cross into a free state from CA).

Cons, nothing really, besides having to have it. newer kits come with a rear take down and paracord to assist in pulling pin to separate the upper. (i got mine without)
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  #18  
Old 12-22-2018, 5:36 PM
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So I am late to the new CA "guns are bad mmmmkaayyy" party as I did a bunch of CFARS AW registrations and disassembled all "evil" firearms until after receipt of AW letters (still waiting). Over this holiday I've done a couple featured rifle compliance installs (Juggernaut Tactical's Hellfighter and the Cross Armory Collection-Safe Mag gen 2 + Quick Pins + Pin Pal + Flop Stop (aka sounds like SNL's Kavanaugh's friends sketch names ).

My opinion:

The Cross Armory stuff is like a fine watch in terms of engineering and installation, each item does its part and works. So cool that as soon as you hit the quick pin, the upper pivots up, stops at the flop stop on the pivot pal and the mag drops free. But...it retains the bolt catch, so in order to reload on bolt hold back you need to 1) hit bolt catch/send bolt home 2) hit both sides of quick pin release 3) slap upper down, 4) insert new mag 5) run C/H and UP gtg.

The Juggernaut Hellfighter rear takedown pin is a machining work of art. You remove the bolt catch in this install as their lock pivots down over the magazine latch when pressed down, and for these compliance builds that is a + IMO. The rear pin is best installed with the upper in place and/or an extended detent cause mine came out a few times during the upper install process (rotating the pin in the wrong way and launching the detent into the hole). Reloading is 1) push the rear takedown pin button, barrel weight rocks the receiver forward and catches on the takedown pin 2) hit mag release 3) close upper onto lower 4) insert new mag 5) rack C/H and UP gtg.

The Cross Armory stuff retails at $221.99 while the Juggernaut kit runs $70.

So this whole CA firearms AW thing still chaps my hide as my legal sporting rifles which were legally acquired in CA are now by legislative fiat, bad and now mandated additional registration +$ and more $ to make compliant only to expect more of the same from the current administration (gov and legislature).
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  #19  
Old 12-22-2018, 8:24 PM
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I wish I would have read this thread first. Didnt see they had black kingpins........

I went through maglock gen 1, super slow reloads. Hellfighter kit, worked pretty decent but the last bolt wouldnt hold open and clearing jams was a huge pain and dangerous. Added the hogue freedom fighter kit, got last bolt hold open but could not use the mag release with the bolt held back. Had to close bolt, open action, change mag and then charge. Worked but wasn't ideal.

Finally landed on a kingpin, maglock gen 2. Pretty much perfect as its going to get. Pros, shorter then the hellfighter kit so using the safety is easier. Easier removal and install to remove upper if needed at the range. Hellfighter would works it's way loose occasionally, this doesnt. Had to file some of the maglock to function properly but only took a few minutes. This is the only setup I have found that you can open the action and use the mag release with the bolt open.

My favorite setup and very fast and easy. Glad I got it but wish I ordered black.

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Old 12-22-2018, 9:12 PM
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You can take down about 0.02" on the hogue pin and release mags with the bolt back

I have the hogue kit in conjunction with the kingpin. Works great.

The kingpin has a great low profile and I like that it comes with a replacement takedown detent.

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Last edited by pfn; 12-22-2018 at 9:16 PM..
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  #21  
Old 12-22-2018, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chomorro View Post
I wish I would have read this thread first. Didnt see they had black kingpins........

I went through maglock gen 1, super slow reloads. Hellfighter kit, worked pretty decent but the last bolt wouldnt hold open and clearing jams was a huge pain and dangerous. Added the hogue freedom fighter kit, got last bolt hold open but could not use the mag release with the bolt held back. Had to close bolt, open action, change mag and then charge. Worked but wasn't ideal.

Finally landed on a kingpin, maglock gen 2. Pretty much perfect as its going to get. Pros, shorter then the hellfighter kit so using the safety is easier. Easier removal and install to remove upper if needed at the range. Hellfighter would works it's way loose occasionally, this doesnt. Had to file some of the maglock to function properly but only took a few minutes. This is the only setup I have found that you can open the action and use the mag release with the bolt open.

My favorite setup and very fast and easy. Glad I got it but wish I ordered black.

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Thanks for the support! Sorry about sending out the black ones too late but now you know your next build will be the way you want it.

And thanks for putting a picture next to hellfighter. I never even put the two together to see the difference.


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  #22  
Old 12-22-2018, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfn View Post
You can take down about 0.02" on the hogue pin and release mags with the bolt back

I have the hogue kit in conjunction with the kingpin. Works great.

The kingpin has a great low profile and I like that it comes with a replacement takedown detent.

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I thought about doing this but had such an hard time installing (the drilling multiple times only to realize my mag button was too long) and removing it I decided against trying. Good to know though, I still have the pins.

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Old 12-22-2018, 9:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
Thanks for the support! Sorry about sending out the black ones too late but now you know your next build will be the way you want it.

And thanks for putting a picture next to hellfighter. I never even put the two together to see the difference.


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Makes sense why I didnt see them then lol. Oh well at least my builds scream ca compliant I guess.

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  #24  
Old 12-23-2018, 7:10 AM
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Interesting that the cut out on the Kingpin is radiused and the Hellfighter is not.
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Old 12-23-2018, 8:14 AM
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Interesting that the cut out on the Kingpin is radiused and the Hellfighter is not.
we didn't want our pins to bend. there was enough material taken away anyway it was important for that portion to remain robust. Our machinist has a nightmare running that radius on his swiss screw machine but we weren't going to compromise that area.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:16 AM
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The Kingpin is the best solution I’ve found. Feels solid when pressing to break the action open.

Found out that with a Fail Zero BCG paired with the AR maglock gen 2 will not crack the upper enough to drop the mag. Will need to shave off a few microns of the lip of the ARmaglock.

Looking to try the Houge Freedom fighter kit for an even cleaner look.

Anyone have the hogue kit that’s modified the pin? Is it better to grind down the point of contact of the upper (dome side) or the end of pin that blocks your mag release?
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Old 01-12-2019, 6:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok556 View Post
The Kingpin is the best solution I’ve found. Feels solid when pressing to break the action open.



Found out that with a Fail Zero BCG paired with the AR maglock gen 2 will not crack the upper enough to drop the mag. Will need to shave off a few microns of the lip of the ARmaglock.



Looking to try the Houge Freedom fighter kit for an even cleaner look.



Anyone have the hogue kit that’s modified the pin? Is it better to grind down the point of contact of the upper (dome side) or the end of pin that blocks your mag release?
I have the king pin and hogue but not filed down. I wouldn't touch the top dome part it keeps from snagging on the upper.

I would try it but taking that thing in and out is a huge pain

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Old 01-12-2019, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok556 View Post
The Kingpin is the best solution I’ve found. Feels solid when pressing to break the action open.



Found out that with a Fail Zero BCG paired with the AR maglock gen 2 will not crack the upper enough to drop the mag. Will need to shave off a few microns of the lip of the ARmaglock.



Looking to try the Houge Freedom fighter kit for an even cleaner look.



Anyone have the hogue kit that’s modified the pin? Is it better to grind down the point of contact of the upper (dome side) or the end of pin that blocks your mag release?
Shave the bottom end.

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Old 01-12-2019, 7:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chomorro View Post
I have the king pin and hogue but not filed down. I wouldn't touch the top dome part it keeps from snagging on the upper.

I would try it but taking that thing in and out is a huge pain

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It's a pain, but no longer than 5 minutes of pain to remove.

To test fit, you don't need to screw it in. So you can keep shaving down little by little without dealing with the retaining screw.

When it fits and releases with the bolt back you can screw it back in.

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Old 01-12-2019, 8:37 AM
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I’ve tried both AR Maglock and Hogue with my Kingpin and while both work great I think ease of use depends on hand size

The way I operate is I push both the Kingpin and Maglock together and that makes dropping the mag faster. I have medium size hands so the standard release with a hogue makes it harder for me to push both at the same time although I can.

Because the Maglock sweeps back towards the safety it’s easier for me to reach but that’s just me. As most have said the Kingpin works great with either Maglock or Hogue


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Old 01-12-2019, 8:43 AM
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I'm trying out a 9mm upper and the design makes the maglock 2 interfere so I had to switch back the hogue to try this conversion kit.

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  #32  
Old 01-12-2019, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chomorro View Post
I'm trying out a 9mm upper and the design makes the maglock 2 interfere so I had to switch back the hogue to try this conversion kit.

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Interesting? Which upper? Can you post a picture?


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Old 01-12-2019, 9:28 AM
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Interesting? Which upper? Can you post a picture?


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Side charging upper with kak magwell block. I was really excited when I installed it. I thought the hogue kit was binding since I couldnt close the upper. Nope it was the maglock so now my shiny new upper is all blemished up on one section oh well.

It has a round design so no clearance for the maglock.

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  #34  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:05 PM
Califpatriot Califpatriot is offline
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if legal, its the best product on the market. might not be legal tho. if illegal, its a potential felony with a lifetime prohibition and possible jail time.

https://crossarmory.com/wp-content/u...Atn-Letter.pdf

why test it?
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:09 PM
pfn pfn is offline
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Because these laws are written to produce your precise attitude.

To induce fear and uncertainty in the populace.

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Old 01-12-2019, 12:14 PM
Califpatriot Califpatriot is offline
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Quote:
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Because these laws are written to produce your precise attitude.

To induce fear and uncertainty in the populace.

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that's very true.

i'm also an adult with a professional license and a need to feed my family. that is more important than thumbing my nose at kevin de leon. ymmv.

but if you're really such a badass, why have any compliance device? why not just go all out and put an autosear in there too?
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:34 PM
pfn pfn is offline
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Because higher courts are more likely to side with ATF than unconstitutional state laws. Additionally, can't catch and prosecute all those not in compliance, it's not logistically possible.

Besides this, just as security theatre is a thing (see tsa), compliance theatre is, equally, a thing.

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Old 01-12-2019, 12:40 PM
Califpatriot Califpatriot is offline
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Well, next time we need a test case, glad we have you.
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Old 01-12-2019, 8:15 PM
ekkthree ekkthree is offline
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Aside from any legalities that just seems like a bad safety situation.
If their illustration is to scale then theres quite a bit of overlap on the firing pin and the minimal openings wouldnt seem to clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Califpatriot View Post
if legal, its the best product on the market. might not be legal tho. if illegal, its a potential felony with a lifetime prohibition and possible jail time.

https://crossarmory.com/wp-content/u...Atn-Letter.pdf

why test it?
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  #40  
Old 01-12-2019, 9:34 PM
mr5parkle mr5parkle is offline
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i have the Kingpin on AP upper and lower, and sometimes it doesn't close even after i send the bolt forward. i'd have to wedge my finger between the lower and AR Maglock so i can close the upper/lower.
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