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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 06-22-2018, 9:57 PM
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No sound, can you resend it???
Check your audio settings. I get sound just fine
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2018, 2:28 AM
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Thanks for posting. He did well. BM is a flaming ******* but was relatively reasonably with his questions. So no panel, Colion didn’t get shouted down, no David Hogg. Just some straight talk and education. That ****ing audience though couldn’t wait to show its disdain for the NRA...


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  #43  
Old 06-23-2018, 5:30 AM
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Maher parroted the old canard about teachers shouldn't need to be armed. That argument is flawed on several levels.

1. Schools don't just have teachers. They have administrators, maintenance people, para educators, technology, grounds keepers and several other classification that AREN'T teachers. They are a diverse example of society with an equal proportion of gun owners. I was a school I.T. guy and target shoot. An administrator was involved in 3 gun competition. Several employees were hunters. You don't just arm "teachers".

2. Israel arms teachers. They ended school shootings.

3. All school employees have extensive background checks at the local, state and federal levels. Said employees are already mandated to protect your kids/students in times of emergency.

4. These school employees who are gun owners would happily provide their own equipment at zero cost to the taxpayer.

5. Gun free zones are killing zones. It is a historical fact. Gun free zones were the brainchild of former Senator Joe Biden.

6. There are teachers who should not be trusted with the custodial care of your children. Thanks to unions, their tenure prevents them from being terminated by school districts. Communists, mentally deficient and the downright incompetent.
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  #44  
Old 06-23-2018, 8:22 AM
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My High School Boys Locker Room was run by a WWII Marine, he ran it ship shape and by God you towed the line, he was certainly one custodian that could have been armed, and would have responded. Of course we did not have school shootings in those days. The PE/Sports coaches were another no nonsense group as well, some taught history but most were PE teachers and certainly would have responded.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
Maher parroted the old canard about teachers shouldn't need to be armed. That argument is flawed on several levels.

1. Schools don't just have teachers. They have administrators, maintenance people, para educators, technology, grounds keepers and several other classification that AREN'T teachers. They are a diverse example of society with an equal proportion of gun owners. I was a school I.T. guy and target shoot. An administrator was involved in 3 gun competition. Several employees were hunters. You don't just arm "teachers".

2. Israel arms teachers. They ended school shootings.

3. All school employees have extensive background checks at the local, state and federal levels. Said employees are already mandated to protect your kids/students in times of emergency.

4. These school employees who are gun owners would happily provide their own equipment at zero cost to the taxpayer.

5. Gun free zones are killing zones. It is a historical fact. Gun free zones were the brainchild of former Senator Joe Biden.

6. There are teachers who should not be trusted with the custodial care of your children. Thanks to unions, their tenure prevents them from being terminated by school districts. Communists, mentally deficient and the downright incompetent.
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2018, 8:25 AM
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I think anyone who makes the Israeli arguments should also understand that Israel has very strict gun control.
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  #46  
Old 06-23-2018, 8:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SAD338 View Post
I think anyone who makes the Israeli arguments should also understand that Israel has very strict gun control.
And BTW, so does Switzerland.
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  #47  
Old 06-23-2018, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SAD338 View Post
I think anyone who makes the Israeli arguments should also understand that Israel has very strict gun control.
And? What does that have to do with programs to arm and train teachers and staff? Israel doesn't have the level of beatings, knifing, sexual assault and rape and shootings US schools have.

the most important consideration when comparing the US to other countries, be they European, Australia, Israel Japan or any developed democracy, is that they all have less, many way less, civil liberties and specifically less criminal justice related rights, meaning conviction is more certain, which prevents a lot of crime in the first place. In Japan you can be held for near four weeks and interrogated twelve hours a day without being charged. That is how they get a over a 95% confession rate and a 99% conviction rate. If the Us had a 99% conviction rate crime would plummet as well. Germany you get no jury tria and way less rights, and like most of europe it has an inquisitorial judiciary meaning the judge works directly with prosecutors. In most of the developed world your car on public roads searchable with lower, items found in the home not specified on warrants are more likely to be admissible -- and it is way way easier to detain, hold and commit people for compulsory mental health care. Under US strict double jeopardy prohibition interpretation, OJ Simpson had to commit a second violent crime, whereas in most countries he could have ended up like Oscar Pistorius and criminally retried after the first trial botch.

When it comes to Israel what matters is that distance and response time of an armed good guy is way less. If you have been either in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, or out in the countryside it is clear that someone armed doing something wrong is much more likely to face an armed good guy sooner. Huckabee was mocked for saying so, but in fact he was correct.

What both Huckabee and Lapierre were saying about Israel was in context of the gun control lobby pig headed resistances to armed personnel at schools and nearby to respond. Most mass shooters give up or kill themselves when confronted by an armed good guy.
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  #48  
Old 06-23-2018, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bababoris View Post
Thanks for posting. He did well. BM is a flaming ******* but was relatively reasonably with his questions. So no panel, Colion didn’t get shouted down, no David Hogg. Just some straight talk and education. That ****ing audience though couldn’t wait to show its disdain for the NRA...


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I had somewhat the same take on the interview.

The interview went better than I would have expected, especially since it
was one on one, without Colion being out numbered by a hostile panel.

I think SmokeTheClay's take on how the interview would go turned
out mostly correct, far better than I would have thought.

The crowds Ignorant Herd Hostility towards the NRA was annoying, but
expected.


Noble
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  #49  
Old 06-23-2018, 4:02 PM
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It was good
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  #50  
Old 06-23-2018, 4:17 PM
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Originally Posted by GDC View Post
And? What does that have to do with programs to arm and train teachers and staff? Israel doesn't have the level of beatings, knifing, sexual assault and rape and shootings US schools have.
I'm saying that if you're using Israel as an example, you should be prepared to argue why very stringent gun controls cannot also be the reason why they don't see the same mass school shootings that we do. That's the antis argument.

They think a lot differently than we do. More collectivist. Just my read from my time there training with their dudes before I retired. They say we're absolutely crazy to let our citizens have access to assault weapons without the same permitting and mental health checks that they have.

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  #51  
Old 06-23-2018, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
Maher parroted the old canard about teachers shouldn't need to be armed. That argument is flawed on several levels.

1. Schools don't just have teachers. They have administrators, maintenance people, para educators, technology, grounds keepers and several other classification that AREN'T teachers. They are a diverse example of society with an equal proportion of gun owners. I was a school I.T. guy and target shoot. An administrator was involved in 3 gun competition. Several employees were hunters. You don't just arm "teachers".

2. Israel arms teachers. They ended school shootings.

3. All school employees have extensive background checks at the local, state and federal levels. Said employees are already mandated to protect your kids/students in times of emergency.

4. These school employees who are gun owners would happily provide their own equipment at zero cost to the taxpayer.

5. Gun free zones are killing zones. It is a historical fact. Gun free zones were the brainchild of former Senator Joe Biden.

6. There are teachers who should not be trusted with the custodial care of your children. Thanks to unions, their tenure prevents them from being terminated by school districts. Communists, mentally deficient and the downright incompetent.

Colion should have responded to Bill Maher's negative comments on
arming teachers by responding:

Utah has allowed teacher to CCW for about 15 years, and for what its
worth, they have not had any Mass School Shootings.


And Utah is not alone:


Nearly one-third of states already arm, or want to arm teachers
Washington Examiner. Feb 25, 2018
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...o-arm-teachers
Quote:
According to the Wall Street Journal, eight states including Texas,
Kansas, South Dakota, Oklahoma, and Wyoming allow teachers to pack
heat
and at least more six states including Florida, Alabama,
Mississippi, Missouri, Maryland, and Oklahoma are considering legislation
to let school personnel carry weapons. Its source was the Education
Commission of the States.
And of course, the Anti-Gunners always act like ALL teachers would be
forced to CCW, when the reality is, only those who volunteer and feel
comfortable with CCW, like for example ex law enforcement or military
personnel who have already trained with firearms.

Or as one Teacher implored:

'Why Not Give Me the Chance to Fight Back?':
Armed Teacher Speaks Out

Fox News. Feb 22, 2018
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/2...orida-shooting
Quote:
"The teachers just huddled their kids in the corner and stood in front of them
and hoped for the best. They didn't have any defense for them, and all that
they could do was hope that the bad guy didn't come in and shoot up their
room," Hansen said. "For me, I needed a better option, I needed a better
plan set in place rather than hunker down and just hope for the best."
Quote:
Hansen noted that she is a responsible gun owner, having completed a
concealed-carry class and extensive training at the gun range.

"I became a teacher because I love children. I love children, and I would do
anything for them," Hansen said. "And if that means taking a bullet, then
yes, I will take a bullet for my children.
But why not give me the chance to also fight back in the process?"
I think its Time we give Teachers like Kasey Hansen the ability to exercise
their 2nd Amendments rights on campus to protect our most precious
resource, our children.

Instead of Trapping them in "Gun Free" Killing Zones (98% of Mass Shootings
occur in so called "Gun Free Zones") lets give them some Actual Protection.


That way, Hero's like Football coach Aaron Feis would have a better option
to protect the children, other than giving his Last Full Measure of Devotion
by sacrificing himself as a human Shield for the children.


Noble
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  #52  
Old 06-23-2018, 5:24 PM
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I said years ago these shootings will bring more gun freedom......and it's happening people are waking up......for the most part
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  #53  
Old 06-23-2018, 9:01 PM
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This Maher snapperhead actually considers gun ownership as vice!
What s pathetic moron!

Those who established liberty by facing English savagery would think this guy a total fool !
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  #54  
Old 06-23-2018, 11:54 PM
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Well, I guess we spoke too soon.

Did not realize there is another part of the show:


Round Table Gun Discussion
Gun Debate - Bill Maher, Colion Noir, Michael Pollan,
Josh Barro, Michael Smerconish & Neera Tanden


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l_qHZEfyTQ




See how many times Neera Tanden interrupts Colion, or over talks,
and the nonsense of trying to associate guns with a increase in suicides.

BTW, here is a Shocker about the Anti-Gun Neera Tanden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neera_Tanden
Quote:
Neera Tanden is an American domestic policy adviser and the President of
the Center for American Progress, a public policy research and advocacy
organization in Washington, D.C., associated with the Clinton wing of
the Democratic Party.
Bringing up the Assault Weapons Ban, like it actually accomplished anything,
which it did not, other than to infringe upon Americans 2A rights.

Colion could have done better at certain moments, but I think he was
concerned about being polite, and made the mistake of thinking they would
allow him a chance to respond, which they didn't, they just moved on to
the next Talking Point.

And its hard when your outnumbered and the other side won't let you finish
a rebuttal before they interject other side issues, and then they move on
to the next talking point.

Colion did a good job of replying in a calm manner despite some of the
nonsense being put forth by the leftist panel.


Noble
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  #55  
Old 06-24-2018, 8:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SmokeTheClay View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
I had somewhat the same take on the interview.

The interview went better than I would have expected, especially since it
was one on one, without Colion being out numbered by a hostile panel.

I think SmokeTheClay's take on how the interview would go turned
out mostly correct, far better than I would have thought.

The crowds Ignorant Herd Hostility towards the NRA was annoying, but
expected.


Noble


Problem for people in the media is if they go full on, 100% pro gun they will lose their job. Happened with Maher before on ABC with something else he said. I think Maher might be closeted
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  #56  
Old 06-24-2018, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Well, I guess we spoke too soon.

Did not realize there is another part of the show:


Round Table Gun Discussion
Gun Debate - Bill Maher, Colion Noir, Michael Pollan,
Josh Barro, Michael Smerconish & Neera Tanden


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l_qHZEfyTQ




See how many times Neera Tanden interrupts Colion, or over talks,
and the nonsense of trying to associate guns with a increase in suicides.

BTW, here is a Shocker about the Anti-Gun Neera Tanden:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neera_Tanden


Bringing up the Assault Weapons Ban, like it actually accomplished anything,
which it did not, other than to infringe upon Americans 2A rights.

Colion could have done better at certain moments, but I think he was
concerned about being polite, and made the mistake of thinking they would
allow him a chance to respond, which they didn't, they just moved on to
the next Talking Point.

And its hard when your outnumbered and the other side won't let you finish
a rebuttal before they interject other side issues, and then they move on
to the next talking point.

Colion did a good job of replying in a calm manner despite some of the
nonsense being put forth by the leftist panel.


Noble
Thanks for the link!

I think Maher was pretty good in the round table. Just so happened it was Noir vs that lady and she was tough because she went purely from an emotional level.

Maher ended the Stand Your ground debate, which helped Coloin. He wasn’t going to win that one. I don’t know why he even decided to talk about it. It’s a losing conversation in that environment.

In the final discussion Maher let Coloin and that lady go at it. He was fair.

However, Maher teed a big one up for Coloin at the end and he whiffed when Maher told Coloin to invite the lady to debate on his turf at NRATV. Coloin could have taken that and invited her to debate in front of everyone, and had anti gun people to actually go to NRATV to watch it. This could have been a big win but Coloin didn’t ask her to come on his show

Coloin needs a little more practice but overall did a great job of being a likeable gun owner <—— what we need

Last edited by SmokeTheClay; 06-24-2018 at 9:30 AM..
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  #57  
Old 06-24-2018, 9:32 AM
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I scanned this and fast forwarded through mental health.
In all I feel slightly dumber watching extreme communist’s being cheered by clapping seals flipping their flippers !

My takeaway is to make the mainstream lots less relevant!
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  #58  
Old 06-28-2018, 1:15 PM
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Every victory counts



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  #59  
Old 06-30-2018, 2:57 PM
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Stand your ground just means if you are where you belong and are being attacked you have no duty to retreat from the threat !

It came about because under the must retreat law. Persons were charged when a prosecutor thought the person had an opportunity to retreat and didn't !

Keep in mind prosecutors in the safety of their armed compounds could take months examining why the person didn't retreat.

The law of retreat was to protect the criminal class against gun owners who democrat prosecutors hate !

All in all Colion did a good job , it's really likely he could have done better,except doing better would guarenteed he would never do another guest role. Witness John Lott,Larry Pratt, Sherrif Clark or Wayne LaPiere !

This Bill maher character is only one of several reasons we do not have HBO or even watch their slanted documentary's on Amazon .
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Old 07-02-2018, 7:15 AM
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Not a fan of Bill Maher. However, I felt like he was very fair with Colin, he was calm, kept an open mind and asked reasonable opposing questions and most importantly, he gave Colin the stage to articulate his point. So kudos to Bill.

I thought Colin did somewhere between ok and well. I really like Colin. But I feel like at times he was too amped up and didn't quite capitalize on his opportunity.

I really like how he tried to find common ground to lay the foundation for his argument to arm the teachers. However, I would have made it clear that I would be in favor of arming only teachers that want to be armed and are provided training. I think Colin was on the verge of saying that, but it never got out.

Colin should have invited Bill to a range session. He should have asked Bill to spend a day with him at the range, learn about guns and let Bill know that he can still hate guns and everyone that owns them at the end of the day if he chooses to.

I have far more respect for someone that knows what they are actually talking about when they have an opposing opinion.
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Old 07-02-2018, 8:02 PM
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Not a fan of Bill Maher. However, I felt like he was very fair with Colin, he was calm, kept an open mind and asked reasonable opposing questions and most importantly, he gave Colin the stage to articulate his point. So kudos to Bill.

I thought Colin did somewhere between ok and well. I really like Colin. But I feel like at times he was too amped up and didn't quite capitalize on his opportunity.

I really like how he tried to find common ground to lay the foundation for his argument to arm the teachers. However, I would have made it clear that I would be in favor of arming only teachers that want to be armed and are provided training. I think Colin was on the verge of saying that, but it never got out.

Colin should have invited Bill to a range session. He should have asked Bill to spend a day with him at the range, learn about guns and let Bill know that he can still hate guns and everyone that owns them at the end of the day if he chooses to.

I have far more respect for someone that knows what they are actually talking about when they have an opposing opinion.
Stockholm syndrome Eric ?
For the record he was NOT fair ! fair would have been a one on one discussion instead of a fixed debate ! Just saying !
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:48 AM
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These public appearances with Colion Noir are sooooo valuable.

If a few open minded people find their way to his youtube videos, they will start to get educated, and maybe start to understand our view. He can really change a lot of peoples minds, about guns and the NRA. Any liberal that watches a few of his videos and really starts to question what they are being told is a victory for us.

Colion is the hero we need, and at the right time.
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Old 07-03-2018, 5:12 AM
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Bill Maher owns at least one handgun for self-defense.
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Old 07-03-2018, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Bill Maher owns at least one handgun for self-defense.
Hopefully that is not true ! I would not trust that evil psycho with tools that could cause harm to others !

Guy is a flat out nut case !
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Old 07-09-2018, 2:50 AM
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I'm saying that if you're using Israel as an example, you should be prepared to argue why very stringent gun controls cannot also be the reason why they don't see the same mass school shootings that we do. That's the antis argument.

They think a lot differently than we do. More collectivist. Just my read from my time there training with their dudes before I retired. They say we're absolutely crazy to let our citizens have access to assault weapons without the same permitting and mental health checks that they have.
There is more access to true military grade firearms in Israel and the territories than the US -- both by good guys and bad guys. I've been there.
And my point is Israel also does not have anywhere near the non-gun school murder, non-gun school assault, non-gun school robberies rate either. And this can be laid to armed personnel in schools.

I am speaking to the assertion that Lapierre's and Huckabee's statements were wrong, when they were not. I don't find either generally effective but in this cade they were correct.
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Old 07-09-2018, 7:27 AM
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I was disappointed in Colion for not firing back at the panel guest for using the made up phrase "Assault Weapon". There is no such thing as an "Assault Weapon".

And Colion didn't bring up the fact that Japan has very strict gun laws, yet has a higher suicide rate than the U.S.
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:12 AM
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I was disappointed in Colion for not firing back at the panel guest for using the made up phrase "Assault Weapon". There is no such thing as an "Assault Weapon".

And Colion didn't bring up the fact that Japan has very strict gun laws, yet has a higher suicide rate than the U.S.
this 100%

Assault Weapon should be stricken from our language. Anyone using it has been indoctrinated, imho.
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:22 AM
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More what? More crazy?
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Old 10-11-2018, 5:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tonelar View Post
this 100%

Assault Weapon should be stricken from our language. Anyone using it has been indoctrinated, imho.
Agreed and I would add the name Bill Maher!
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Old 10-12-2018, 6:40 PM
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Assault Weapon should be stricken from our language. Anyone using it has been indoctrinated, imho.
Been this way for years. I've had many a conversation at ranges with RO's and fellow shooters alike who use the term. I always correct them and say "modern sporting rifles" and make it a point to say it a bit slow for emphasis. The majority get the hint and follow suit in further conversations.
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Old 10-13-2018, 7:16 AM
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Fellas, "Assaut" terminology BEGAN as a sales technique by dealers. That term was plastered all over shotgun news and other ad media in the 80's...........the term was picked up by the anti crowd and they've made it their by word...............but WE started it to boost sales of black rifles!
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Old 10-13-2018, 7:48 AM
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Fellas, "Assaut" terminology BEGAN as a sales technique by dealers. That term was plastered all over shotgun news and other ad media in the 80's...........the term was picked up by the anti crowd and they've made it their by word...............but WE started it to boost sales of black rifles!
Regretfully you are correct and it doesn't end with Assault Weapon either. How about "Sniper Rifle" !
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Old 10-13-2018, 7:55 AM
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would of been nice to have Ben Shapiro back Colin up
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