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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-13-2018, 6:22 PM
ChuckDizzle ChuckDizzle is offline
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Default Practical Rifle in .223

Howdy y'all, it's been a minute and I hope all the forum regulars are doing well these days.

With my AR 15's now safely registered as assault weapons I am in need of a non-assaulty rifle to take the place of my AR-15's for hunting varmint and medium game.

It looks like the "scout rifle" or "practical rifle" will be the closest manually operated replacement for me.

I've looked at a few models. CZ 527, Mossberg MVP, and Rem 700 are all on the short list. Are there any other models I should look into?

I was also very curious about the Remington Model 7, what's the word on the street about these rifles? Are there magazine conversions for them like the 700? I like the idea of a magazine for this rifle, especially when zapping squirrels.
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Old 05-13-2018, 6:28 PM
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Rem 700 tactical
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Old 05-13-2018, 6:52 PM
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Badger Ordnance makes detachable magazine bottom metal for the Rem Model 7.

http://www.badgerordnance.com/trigge...ggerguard.html
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Old 05-13-2018, 6:55 PM
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Bought a 'cheap' plastic stocked 700 just to get the 24" barreled action in .223. Re-stocked with a Boyd's At-One and the Legacy Sports conversion with detachable magazines. The stock adjustments let you shoot with a heavy jacket in the winter and a tee shirt in the summer and maintain the same eye relief. The 1-12" twist is a bit of a limiting factor but if you don't want anything over 55gr it'll produce one ragged hole all day long. using 62 gr it opens up to a hair under an inch. Probably not the cheapest way to go but it works as intended.
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Old 05-13-2018, 7:01 PM
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PTG has bottom metal for Model 7 that uses AR mags.

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/remin...round-mag.html says needs gunsmith to install

They also have it that uses AICS mags http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/remin...aics-mags.html
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Old 05-13-2018, 7:01 PM
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Here's my post on the subject from last month. Here's a link to the rifle. http://www.mossberg.com/product/mvp-patrol-rifle-27716/


"Purchased a Mossberg Patrol model # 27716 over 2 years ago. Love it!

Approximately 900 rds of XM193 downrange. No issues. Stock iron sights. Black stock. Super easy to clean. All I've added is a simple 2 point nylon sling & a butt stock ammo pouch which holds two 10rd PMAGs. I find the PMAGs easier to insert and drop free. 110% reliable.

Function is very smooth IMHO. No problem getting quick follow up shots off accurately. Groups are approx 2" at 50 yards and the same at 100 yards (if I can lean against something lol). Not bad for a guy almost 70.

No plans to add an optic. I prefer the iron sights. Its not a sniper rifle. I think some folks try to make it something its not. Shoots great 100 yards and under for me. (FYI...I've never shot it over 100 yards, don't plan to) Plain, simple, easy to use, reliable and decent priced.

Love It! "

Last edited by Mr. Beretta; 05-13-2018 at 7:10 PM..
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Old 05-13-2018, 7:19 PM
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https://www.ruger.com/products/ameri...ets/26965.html American Ranch uses AR mags

https://www.ruger.com/products/ameri...ets/26944.html American Predator uses AR mags
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Old 05-13-2018, 7:22 PM
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http://www.tikka.fi/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-varmint
Get this, ditch the stock for one that accepts AICS/Accurate mags in .223
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Old 05-13-2018, 7:31 PM
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I love this Ruger Scout Rifle. Shoots great.

https://www.ruger.com/products/scoutRifle/models.html
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Old 05-13-2018, 8:01 PM
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If you just want a nice looking nice shooting 223 the CZ527 is a very nice little rifle.

If you think that down the road you might want to change some things or if you shoot alot and will need a new barrel in the next 5 years get the 700.
You can buy more gear for the 700 than most people even know exists.
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Old 05-13-2018, 8:16 PM
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A Rem 700 with a 20” barrel and drop it into a chassis. MDT makes chassis that Lets you use your favorite AR buttstock and pistol grip. So you could just throw on parts that match your AR’s and get a very similar feeling rifle.
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Old 05-13-2018, 9:29 PM
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Don’t forget the Howa Mini action, or, get a Fightlite SCR and use your existing upper.


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Old 05-14-2018, 12:40 AM
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Yup, I got the Howa with 10 round detachable mag (not AR type though) for $330 from Whittaker. 1 in 9 twist, which should be good up to 69 gr bullets.
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Old 05-14-2018, 4:58 AM
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My Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .223 is a real nail driver. SUB MOA, practically same hole accuracy with Hornady 60 grain V-Max and a low dose of IMR 4198.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:18 AM
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Excellent suggestions gentlemen.

I went out and handled a few rifles this morning.

Here is what I found. The Mossberg was just too rough on the cycling. Such a shame considering the features I did like; flash hider, AR mags, iron sights.

Tried the Ruger American, again the action was pretty rough and would even hang up with no magazine in. The stock seems terrible cheap and flexy. Also this threw the balance off somewhat. Again a bummer, especially with the mag release and threaded barrel, and being one of the lighter options out there.

Tikka T3 was the middle of the road for me, the trigger was a little heavy, but crisp, and no travel. Again the stock felt cheap, but not as bad as the Ruger. It's hard to say why the rifle felt so "meh" the me, but in a weird way it just didn't excite or speak to me. Like a Honda Civic or Toyota Camry.

Also fondled a CZ 527 Carbine and American. Wow. The Carbine just balances perfectly. The action was incredibly smooth. The rifle is beautiful. Nice iron sights. The only drawbacks I can find is that the American while giving me more velocity on the cartridge is just a tad front heavy and handling suffers for it. The magazines are 5 rounds and $50 a pop. Other than that it's almost unfair to the competition that CZ is making what just feels like a supreme quality rifle at such a decent price. It honestly felt better than the Christensen thingy I looked at that seemed crazy overpriced for the fit and finish.

The last two to look at will be the Howa and Rem 700 tactical...but the CZ is strongly in the lead at this point.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:19 PM
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FWIW, my father had one of the Mossberg's in .223 and had trouble with it and quickly traded it for a Remington. I believe his main gripes were failures to extract, gritty action etc.

I haven't handled a CZ, but I would think it would probably be more refined than a basic Remington 700, which are pretty utilitarian. You do have the advantage with a bigger aftermarket with the Remington product.
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:55 PM
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With the Mossberg MVP, I think a lot of the rough action complaints are from people cycling them with an empty mag inserted. The little hangy down part on the bolt that picks up the cartridge is dragging over the mag follower.

Bolt is a little more wiggly, probably because of the two piece bolt, but it's not rough, gets nothing but smoother with use.
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Old 05-14-2018, 1:12 PM
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Remember all of CA is going to copper hunting ammo so consider your twist rates and ammo selection into account.
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Old 05-14-2018, 1:46 PM
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I have had a CZ American for years. It is very accurate, though mine has the 1 in 12 twist, so 55 gr bullets are about as heavy as I can go and the heavier TSX copper bullets are out. The new CZ .223s have 1 in 9 twists, which should stabilize up to the 69 gr Sierra matchking based upon my 1 in 9 Savage and should work fine with the 55 gr TSX or the Varmint Grenades. I love my CZ. My son shot a javelina a few years ago with the 55 gr Hornady SP with cannelure. Dropped it on the spot. I have used it for called coyotes and as walking around rifle for ground squirrels.

Last edited by Calif Hunter; 05-14-2018 at 1:48 PM..
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Old 05-14-2018, 2:18 PM
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(Thread hijack?)
I too am looking at a bolt 223... But I run 5.56 exclusively through my ARs and I only want to stock 1 caliber. I know the differences and the pressure problems between 223 & 556. Why haven't the bolt manufactures addressed this. Seems most entry models only allow for 223. To get the 556 you're at the M MVP or R 700... Thoughts?
I'm thinking I might need to start my own thread.
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Old 05-14-2018, 2:24 PM
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What about a Ruger American Ranch? I sell them pretty cheap, and they take AR mags which is pretty awesome!

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Old 05-14-2018, 2:37 PM
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I can only speak to the MVP.

Action is smoother when cycled with ammo or without magazine. Mine was a little rough at first but broke in nice and smooth after a couple hundred rounds.

With out scope it was pretty easy to lay them in on target at 100 yards. With the scope I shoot clay birds on the 100 berm and then get all the chips after the first shot breaks them. BTW, I shoot surplus 5.56.

Very easy and ergonomically to carry and shoulder. From the bench it is hard to miss.

Very happy with it and three friends that have shoot it went out and got their own.

Best of luck in your search.
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Old 05-14-2018, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asabino View Post
I love this Ruger Scout Rifle. Shoots great.

https://www.ruger.com/products/scoutRifle/models.html
yes yes yes
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Old 05-14-2018, 2:47 PM
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Another vote for the Ruger scout in .223
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Old 05-14-2018, 2:55 PM
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Why no "featureless" ARs?
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Old 05-14-2018, 2:56 PM
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Lightcav, because those will be banned within a year of Newsome's swearing in.
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Old 05-14-2018, 2:58 PM
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Ruger scout is a non-starter for me. Not when they have a model that uses common AR mags and doesn't have a rail for a scout scope. Also, not a fan of Ruger's burdcage, I prefer an A2 hider because I often shoot from the prone.
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Old 05-14-2018, 3:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
Lightcav, because those will be banned within a year of Newsome's swearing in.
And bolt action "sniper rifles" along with .223/5.56 "assault rifle ammo" shortly thereafter.
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Old 05-14-2018, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
Tikka T3 was the middle of the road for me, the trigger was a little heavy, but crisp, and no travel. Again the stock felt cheap, but not as bad as the Ruger. It's hard to say why the rifle felt so "meh" the me, but in a weird way it just didn't excite or speak to me. Like a Honda Civic or Toyota Camry.
Oh, you want jazzy, huh? Get yourself one of these Weatherby Vanguards, $900 at Bud's(silencer not included):



Or one of these Vanguards, also $900:

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Old 05-14-2018, 3:20 PM
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Id get either a Tikka or 700/Howa. Make sure to get at least a 1:9 twist rate if you plan on shooting any game with it.
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Old 05-14-2018, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
Ruger scout is a non-starter for me. Not when they have a model that uses common AR mags and doesn't have a rail for a scout scope...
FYI, they have the standard scope mount and it comes with the rings.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
Howdy y'all, it's been a minute and I hope all the forum regulars are doing well these days.

With my AR 15's now safely registered as assault weapons I am in need of a non-assaulty rifle to take the place of my AR-15's for hunting varmint and medium game.

It looks like the "scout rifle" or "practical rifle" will be the closest manually operated replacement for me.

I've looked at a few models. CZ 527, Mossberg MVP, and Rem 700 are all on the short list. Are there any other models I should look into?

I was also very curious about the Remington Model 7, what's the word on the street about these rifles? Are there magazine conversions for them like the 700? I like the idea of a magazine for this rifle, especially when zapping squirrels.
I think you need a Mini14.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
PTG has bottom metal for Model 7 that uses AR mags.

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/remin...round-mag.html says needs gunsmith to install

They also have it that uses AICS mags http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/remin...aics-mags.html
I would avoid AR-15 magazine conversions as well as any other double-feed magazine conversions of Remington actions at all cost.
It requires milling of the reciever which permanently effects the reciever.
The reciever can not go back to how it was before conversion and would be scrap if the AR-15 magazines can not be made to feed correctly.

Stick with AICS center-feed mags.
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Old 05-15-2018, 4:52 AM
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Quote:
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I think you need a Mini14.
LOL, you went there.
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Old 05-15-2018, 6:00 AM
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The Howa mini-bolt, CZ 527 and Ruger American Ranch are the easiest and most complete out-of-box options. I do really like the Ruger Scout, but I’m not sure I could personally invest in one in such a poodle popper caliber. Now i’ll contradict myself by saying I’d really like one in .300 BLK if I felt copper projectiles were in my future.
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Old 05-15-2018, 6:26 AM
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I'll bet the next assault on our 2nd amendment will be anything with a detachable mag. Just give the libtards a little more time.
They wall all guns banned.
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Old 05-15-2018, 7:15 AM
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Have you considered the Henry Long ranger?
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Old 05-15-2018, 8:34 AM
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Lol, I'm already banned from one forum, don't get me banned from here too with that Mini 14 nonesense, Randall!

After fondling a few of the OEM double stack options out there I'm convinced single stack is the way to go on any bolt gun right now. The American Ranch was close, but the cheap stock really killed it for me, it's too bad as it was a close contender otherwise.

Anything with a 1:12 is of course a deal killer for me, as a hunting rifle I'll often be using copper bullets that are longer than their lead counterparts by weight.
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Old 05-15-2018, 8:37 AM
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Hooch, a lever gun, while certainly a handy and fast rifle platform won't work well for me from the prone. I'll probably spend 80% of my time firing from the prone with this rifle and 20% in other positions. If it was reversed a lever gun would probably been what I went with.
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Old 05-15-2018, 9:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckDizzle View Post
After fondling a few of the OEM double stack options out there I'm convinced single stack is the way to go on any bolt gun right now. The American Ranch was close, but the cheap stock really killed it for me, it's too bad as it was a close contender otherwise.
Double stack mags don't work well with 2 lug bolts and 2 lug bolts are the most common design in bolt action rifles.
The Ruger uses a 3 lug bolt which makes it easier to function well with a double stack magazine.
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