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  #1  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:26 PM
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Default Shotgun, urban HD shells?

Been loading 00-buck shells into my Home Defense shotgun for quite some time now, with slugs in the sidesaddle, but I stumbled across some old Winchester PDX1 shells in my cabinet today (the ones that shoot a combo load of a slug w/ three 00-buck pellets), and it got me wondering, again, about the age-old question. What's everyone's ideal 12ga shell for urban home defense? Specifically, where over-penetration is somewhat of a concern, but not a primary concern. Should I load up with those PDX1's, or stick with my plain ol' 00-buck?
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Old 09-17-2017, 7:03 AM
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This when it is in stock

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fede...b-p-58630.aspx
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Old 09-17-2017, 7:22 AM
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I like No.4 Buck because of less penetration through walls. Realistically, any buckshot is going to penetrate an attacker plenty at under 15 yards. No.4 will do fine, and still penetrate fewer layers of walls.

Even through an interior wall the effect on ballistic gel is devastating.


Last edited by LowThudd; 09-17-2017 at 8:22 AM..
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Old 09-17-2017, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Been loading 00-buck shells into my Home Defense shotgun for quite some time now, with slugs in the sidesaddle, but I stumbled across some old Winchester PDX1 shells in my cabinet today (the ones that shoot a combo load of a slug w/ three 00-buck pellets), and it got me wondering, again, about the age-old question. What's everyone's ideal 12ga shell for urban home defense? Specifically, where over-penetration is somewhat of a concern, but not a primary concern. Should I load up with those PDX1's, or stick with my plain ol' 00-buck?
This

http://www.oathammo.com/shotgun

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2016/01/14...menting-slugs/
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Old 09-17-2017, 7:34 AM
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Interesting comparison between different buckshot sizes. No.4 does very well, and technically more damage, even with lesser penetration.


Last edited by LowThudd; 09-17-2017 at 8:21 AM..
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2017, 8:00 AM
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Bookmark. Nice vids. Thanks for posting.
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Old 09-17-2017, 9:27 AM
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#1 Buck here. I can't really think of an HD scenario where slugs are viable. I can't shoot the BG's car as it drives off.

I wouldn't turn down smaller buck, say #4 buck if over penetration was a bigger concern. #1 buck though is the smallest which meets FBI penetration criteria.
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Old 09-17-2017, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowThudd View Post
I like No.4 Buck ...
I also like #4 buck, or BB depending on the odds of over penetration being an issue. Currently #4 buck, but when I was in small densely populated apts I went BB.

Never needed to use it yet fortunately.
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Old 09-17-2017, 9:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
#1 Buck here. I can't really think of an HD scenario where slugs are viable. I can't shoot the BG's car as it drives off.

I wouldn't turn down smaller buck, say #4 buck if over penetration was a bigger concern. #1 buck though is the smallest which meets FBI penetration criteria.
However, part of the FBI criteria is barrier penetration, which is where #4 didn't do quite well enough. If you aren't planning on shooting through walls, I wouldn't worry about that.
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Old 09-17-2017, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowThudd View Post
However, part of the FBI criteria is barrier penetration, which is where #4 didn't do quite well enough. If you aren't planning on shooting through walls, I wouldn't worry about that.
In strict penetration of ballistic gel, it was still #1 buck IIRC.

And I expect the BG to attempt to take some cover.

What I don't expect is squared off, unprotected center of mass (like the idiots who profess birdshot).
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  #11  
Old 09-17-2017, 11:28 AM
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Thanks for the link. Signed up for notification when back in stock.
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  #12  
Old 09-17-2017, 12:35 PM
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I suspect there will be as many different opinions as total comments. As far as I am concerned it is hard to beat # 4 buck.
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Old 09-17-2017, 1:18 PM
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I like federals 00 buck with their flight control wads
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  #14  
Old 09-17-2017, 1:31 PM
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BG @ inside the house range. I'm sticking with off the shelf 00-Buck.
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Old 09-17-2017, 2:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
In strict penetration of ballistic gel, it was still #1 buck IIRC.

And I expect the BG to attempt to take some cover.

What I don't expect is squared off, unprotected center of mass (like the idiots who profess birdshot).
I used to be one of those "idiots" that thought bird shot would do. Now, it's Super X 00 buck[9 pellets], 12ga of course. Hopefully, I'm forgiven for the error of my ways.
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Old 09-17-2017, 3:38 PM
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I utilize 00 buckshot for home defense.

Although, I've been toying with the idea of using Aguila mini-shells due to less felt recoil & muzzle flash with greater ammo capacity.
^buckshot {mix of #4 pellets (x7) and #1 pellets (x4)} or slug {7/8 oz @ 1250 FPS}

Friend that's ex-IDF said they use to use #4 buckshot for riot control. Shoot #4 at crowd when they are 50+ yards away.
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  #17  
Old 09-17-2017, 3:56 PM
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i use #4 buck.

barrier penetration is not something i am worried about as i'm staying at the end of the hallway leading to the bedrooms. there is no cover in the hallway. they can steal the tv's, computers, etc in the living rooms. but if they take one step into the hallway, they will get to meet a wall of lead.
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Old 09-17-2017, 4:21 PM
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Interesting answers so far. First thing I noticed is that nobody is recommending the PDX1's (or any other specialty shells), which confirms what I always thought, they're probably more of a gimmick than anything else.

It seems that most people here choose either 00-buck (which is what I'm also using currently), #1 buck, and #4 buck.

Seeing as my target will always be less than 20ft away, I think I'll buy some #1 and #4 to test out and see if it's worth using.

FWIW, while I'm worried about wall penetration, my shots would have to penetrate a number of walls before they could hit a person. I live in an apartment, but there is nobody above, below, or even on the other side of my walls. My shots would need to penetrate both my exterior wall AND my neighbor's exterior wall. Which is why I've always been ok with 00-buck. But I'm thinking maybe #1 or #4 will actually be more effective at stopping a threat at close range than the 00.

Thanks for all the input so far
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:11 PM
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00 buck 9 shot, side saddle slugs. If you run dry of buck and only have what's on the side, you probably need to step it up to slugs.
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
What I don't expect is squared off, unprotected center of mass (like the idiots who profess birdshot).
and the .22RF.

I use Winchester low recoil 00 loads , they pattern very well from my shotgun and the recoil is that of a light bird shot load so the woman can shoot it better
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  #21  
Old 09-17-2017, 5:15 PM
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Low recoil 1 Buck: Federal LE 132-1B. http://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gau...l-wad-le132-1b
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:30 PM
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I'm not too concerned with using low-recoil loads - it's a gas-operated M4 so the recoil is plenty manageable regardless of which shells I use. The full-power 00-buck I use currently is perfectly manageable for me, in terms of recoil.
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMercer View Post
00 buck 9 shot, side saddle slugs. If you run dry of buck and only have what's on the side, you probably need to step it up to slugs.
That was precisely my line of thinking when I chose 00-buck w/ sidesaddle slugs originally. Certainly it would do the job, I just wanted to ask around and see if there might be a slightly better choice out there
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:35 PM
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I use Fiocchi low recoil 00. Same recoil as birdshot.

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Old 09-17-2017, 5:36 PM
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Holy crap...
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
I'm not too concerned with using low-recoil loads - it's a gas-operated M4 so the recoil is plenty manageable regardless of which shells I use. The full-power 00-buck I use currently is perfectly manageable for me, in terms of recoil.
Then don't use it for the low-recoil control. Use it for the 15 effective pellets and the tight Flitecontrol pattern.
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:52 PM
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This guy is always a fun read:

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...e-box-o-truth/

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...uns-and-walls/

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...shot-patterns/
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
i use #4 buck.

barrier penetration is not something i am worried about as i'm staying at the end of the hallway leading to the bedrooms. there is no cover in the hallway. they can steal the tv's, computers, etc in the living rooms. but if they take one step into the hallway, they will get to meet a wall of lead.
Yep, nothing I own is worth killing for but if they come down to me, each pop sends 27 #4 pellets into places they'd rather not have perforated. Just the way it is, shoulda stuck to the living room or gone next door.
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Old 09-17-2017, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle View Post
Then don't use it for the low-recoil control. Use it for the 15 effective pellets and the tight Flitecontrol pattern.
Why do I need to tighten up the pattern for HD at HD distances?
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Old 09-17-2017, 6:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
i use #4 buck.

barrier penetration is not something i am worried about as i'm staying at the end of the hallway leading to the bedrooms. there is no cover in the hallway. they can steal the tv's, computers, etc in the living rooms. but if they take one step into the hallway, they will get to meet a wall of lead.
Then there's no cover for you either.

BG reaches around corner and unloads his mag. Or BG grabs something as a makeshift shield.

How big is this wall of lead?
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Old 09-17-2017, 7:40 PM
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Here is what I use...

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/s...00-buckshot#!/
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Old 09-17-2017, 8:40 PM
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I prefer 00 Buck, but I'm a traditionalist.
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Old 09-17-2017, 8:43 PM
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I have a box of that PDX1 I don't remember where it is.

I keep eight of these loaded in a M2:

http://www.ddupleks-usa.com/broadhead-hexolit-32
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Old 09-18-2017, 7:09 AM
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I've considered the pdx1s. They'd be useful for a short range escalated confrontation. However, as soon as you need to reach further the buckshot becomes a huge liability. Expands to a 3+ foot group
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Old 09-18-2017, 8:41 AM
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Reduced recoil #1 buck and don't point at the kids rooms.

In my house, exterior walls are stucco with a tile roof. Not worried about what is beyond. Just worried about the next room. In a barricade situation, line of sight is through 4 layers of drywall terminating in the second bath.

We will not "clear the house" unless it's a true SHTF situation, and in that case, any kids will be in the room with us giving a clear field of fire anyway.
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Old 09-18-2017, 9:43 AM
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When laying down the double barrel hate, this has just the right amount of "get off of my lawn!"



Best used in a Rockatanksy configured shotgun. While in a moving vehicle. Preferably a V8.

WITNESS ME!!!

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Old 09-18-2017, 10:09 AM
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#1 Buck is my preferred load. It has the best combination of lethality and reduced overpenetration.

You don't want Federal Flite Control. The pattern doesn't open up enough at home defense distances (3 to 10 yards). It's fine for police that are behind cover at longer ranges (20 to 40 yards).

If you're using FFC in the home, you might as well be using a rifle. Your aim will be the same.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMJ View Post
I have a box of that PDX1 I don't remember where it is.

I keep eight of these loaded in a M2:

http://www.ddupleks-usa.com/broadhead-hexolit-32
Have you ever shot those slugs at 50'? I've found them to be the least accurate thing I've ever shot out of a shotgun. They were not capable of hitting a target the size of a cow. Yes, all guns pattern different but those slugs are funky.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:40 AM
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If you miss you can at least smoke them out...then hopefully you can make claim on your fire insurance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnA9yyE2ma8
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JagerDog View Post
Then there's no cover for you either.

BG reaches around corner and unloads his mag. Or BG grabs something as a makeshift shield.

How big is this wall of lead?
you are assuming the BG knows i'm there in position or i'm standing stupidly in the center of the hallway.

my hallway is actually L shaped. I just need to be at the corner of the L peeking out just enough for the barrel to clear and that wall of lead is 5 shots of #4 buck coming out of a semi-auto shotgun with a backup loaded pump shotgun that is also loaded to 5. then behind that is semi-auto rifles, then behind that is pistols

if i need to reach for the rifles, these guys are not your typical house robbers.
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