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General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members. |
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#1
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Need CCW or Background Check to attend GunSite in AZ???
http://www.gunsite.com/main/contact-...ked-questions/ Frequently asked Questions How do I register for classes? Answer: Simply mail or FAX a completed application, credentials (either a CCW permit, LE background check or active duty military or police ID,) and a deposit equal to half the tuition. Applications can be downloaded from this website, are included in our calendar and course catalog, or can be mailed to you. (FAX #: 928.636.1236) Emailed gunsite, they said that a receipt of a purchase of a firearm in CA within 2 years will satisfy the requirement. Last edited by Danz la Nuit; 11-18-2012 at 8:08 AM.. |
#3
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You can get a copy of your criminal background report via a Livescan provider: http://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints/security
However, nobody is supposed to ask for your report and you can only provide it to third parties in limited circumstances. From the DOJ FAQ: Quote:
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NRA LIFE MEMBER |
#5
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This has been a requirement at Gunsite for years. In fact when I took my first class there in 2002 they also required a letter of reference. Some other schools and instructors have similar requirements. They don't want to risk training criminals.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#6
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However, California Penal Code section 11142 is directed at the individual making the disclosure, not the party requesting it. If Gunsite is an authorized party to receive criminal history info under 11142, there's no problem in giving them the information, but I would verify that to avoid committing a misdemeanor. I assume Gunsite must have some kind of lawful arrangement to get background information for CA residents, because I'm sure there are plenty of CA people who have attended classes there. But as with all things, I would not follow a practice that seems OK in 49 other states without making sure CA allows it. ETA: I just looked at Gunsite's application--they aren't requesting the applicant's DOJ background report itself, but a LE agency's statement of no criminal history, which may be sufficiently different to avoid a Public Records Act violation. Last edited by ausala; 11-16-2012 at 11:09 AM.. |
#7
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#8
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Yet another reason for me to get off my butt and pick up a nonresident permit.
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#9
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If you have a FFL check to see if they will accept that. When I went through Lethal Force Institute they accepted it as a positive background check as well.
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NRA LIFE MEMBER |
#11
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Yeah, let's make it harder to get people trained in the safe use of firearms.
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DILLIGAF "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice" "Once is Happenstance, Twice is Coincidence, Thrice is Enemy Action" "The flak is always heaviest, when you're over the target" |
#12
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Which Brady campaign newsletter did you read that in? I can only assume that with such an anti 2a attitude that you must be a supporter of theirs to consider repeating such nonsense on a pro-2a forum.
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#14
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First off, why not? If I owned a school I too would want to make sure we weren't training bangers to be better shots or parolees to be more effective gun fighters. They already have an advantage as they couldn't care less about the laws we have to abide by. Why give them any more? It's bad enough gangs like the nortenos are sending their new recruits to join the corps to learn mout, to them turn around and teach those newly acquired skills. As far as training resumes, I would view that more of a courtesy thing. It's really frustrating to be in a somewhat " advanced" class that's constantly being bogged down by the guy still stuck in " the bullets go in that way" mode. I'm not knocking this individual, we all were new at one point and I for one much enjoy helping one new to firearms. But with a training resume you can gauge what level that shooter is currently proficient in. Thius, for the most part accurately ascertaining which skill level class he/she should be in.just my .02
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Slayer of abalone and lingcod. Last edited by LMTluvr; 11-17-2012 at 9:02 PM.. |
#15
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I don't mean to be argumentative, but we are going in circles and I must not be making myself clear. Or I don't understand you. Either way, if are suggesting that someone can redistribute their own DOJ report to a third party, PC 11142 prohibits that. It doesnt make sense, but thats how the statute works. That's why I linked to the Cal-DOJ website explaining the system.
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#16
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There is no room for error when 20 + people share a live firing line for a week . One reason we can attend such places in America is because they keep off the Brady Club's radar. If you think they're pissed about private gun sales, just wait until the blisninnys find out its legal in America for anyone to learn about detailed weapons training. The best way to keep Gunsite and its cohorts off the Federal radar screen is to ensure no one ends up dead over negligent BS, which means some ground rules need to be laid down first.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#17
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#18
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If that's how you want to run your school, fine. However requiring people to cough up the cash for background checks just to take a class(someone's going to have to pay for it) would just further disenfranchise people as an "extra" thing to do that's really irrelevant. Who would enforce a requirement that all firearm training requires that? The state? Feds? Yeah, that's an anti-2a attitude. Might as well ask for FOID cards like Illinois or some nonsense. Making it even more difficult for regular citizens to get any sort of firearm training is most certainly anti-2a. |
#19
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By your statements here I don't think you have a clue about how Gunsite runs a training class. If you had a clue about Gunsite, you might look at my user name and go Hmmmmmm. I'll give you one little clue, my hat is Orange and my belt buckle says American Pistol Institute. My cert for API250 was signed on the 10th of May by Jeff. Lets see if you know what's special about that date, too.
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DILLIGAF "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice" "Once is Happenstance, Twice is Coincidence, Thrice is Enemy Action" "The flak is always heaviest, when you're over the target" Last edited by Sgt Raven; 11-18-2012 at 1:03 AM.. |
#20
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With that out of the way, we now return to our regularly scheduled thread topic.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#21
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But I do see you're point and agree.
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Slayer of abalone and lingcod. |
#22
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You can just send a copy of your CCW...assuming you have one. It is funny that this comes up for Gunsite, when Frontsight has been asking for cash for their background check for years
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#23
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Oh well, I guess everyone knows now. |
#24
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So yeah, that's asking people to spend more cash. But like I said, if that's how they want to run their business then so be it. At least it's not somehow requiring all training to involve background checks. BTW, The Virus, apparently you don't realize how 2a has been eroded in places. Registration doesn't stop you from owning guns, so no harm, right? What's a little card that requires being renewed every once in a while to keep the right to own your guns(I'm talking about those FOID cards). 10 day waiting period? Why not just make it 30? Heck, change it to 1 handgun a year instead of every 30 days while you're at it. SO yeah, making broad comments like all training should require background checks is anti 2a unless you aren't too clear on the 2nd amendment. Zumbo was a pro-2a guy till he outed himself as an anti(and then later on had to apologize for his nonsense). I'm sure the groups that got exemptions for their cowboy guns into some of the CA bills we're stuck with didn't think they were doing anything anti-2a either. Last edited by Merc1138; 11-18-2012 at 3:39 PM.. |
#25
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That is what I sent them. It was merely a matter of scanning it and e-mailing it. Also while a CCW isn't free, it isn't a lot (especially out of state ones) when you are already spending $1500 for tuition + hotel(x6) + lunch (X5) + dinner (x6) + travel (gas or airfare) + ammunition (1200 + 50rds)
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale Last edited by 9mmepiphany; 11-18-2012 at 4:46 PM.. |
#26
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No one has to do anything, firearms training is voluntary, not required. You can twist it anyway you like. Here is what I said, not the spun interpretation. Any potential student of a private firearms training facility should be required to submit a background check , and any students wishing to receive ADVANCED training should be required to provide adequate proof that there skill level in fact meets the requirements of the course in question. It comes down to safety and making sure advanced classes have students of advanced levels, nothing more, no hidden agenda. |
#27
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You are an anti. The same train of thought that sees chipping away at our rights as being perfectly fine, is what got us in the current mess we have regarding 2a, and you just seem to want more of it. It has nothing to do with safety and avoiding training gang members. Any requirement that a business offer any sort of training has to do background checks is anti 2a, period. It would just be another chip at the 2nd amendment no different than if the government requiring thumbprints and DL scans for ammo purchases. You're even using the same kind of logic that some of the less fanatical anti 2a groups use "gotta keep it away from gang members and criminals, shouldn't be an issue if you're a law abiding citizen". Buying ammo is voluntary, being able to go to the range is voluntary. There are plenty of "voluntary" things after you've paid for a gun. I wasn't aware that someone who could claim to be pro 2a, would have such a hard time understanding what "shall not be infringed" means. If you don't mean there should be a law or some agency requiring and enforcing background checks and it should be left up to a business, go ahead and clarify that. Otherwise you're an anti. |
#28
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Enforced and implemented by the school putting on the course, you keep imagining these agencies and people behind something.
No where have I ever posted an agency or otherwise, you keep bringing it up. So to follow your logic, you are all for felons and the like receiving firearms training, owning body armor etc? I mean who are we to say they can't? Go back into your doomsday bunker, put on the tin foil hat. ignore activated Last edited by The Virus; 11-18-2012 at 8:42 PM.. |
#29
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Of course calling the idea of asking for a clarification TFH worthy, he probably is really a closet anti along the lines of Tsai. |
#30
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__________________
The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#31
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We hashed this issue out in the Competition/Training forum so those who read that thread would have very clearly understood the intent of The Virus's post. You are not correct in your assumption.
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#32
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Like I said, he could have just clarified it and not assume that everyone reads every thread without even mentioning that he had already discussed it in better detail elsewhere.
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#33
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I have learned that some of calgun's members use the word "anti" to describe anyone who doesn't agree with their ideas.
If I ran a training institute, I would want qualifications as well, outside of just the basics. |
#34
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He could have hit the quote post button and responded with "I discussed this at length in another thread, I meant up to the schools" rather than choosing to brag and throw a fit. With such an easy way to clear up what appears to have been a misunderstanding, yet choosing to go the other way, I think he's really anti-2a and just didn't want to make a pro-2a blanket statement. |
#35
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The only creds I require are those showing a person has passed basic training classes so I don't have to go over that stuff. Its a slippery slope of infringement.... Whats next a credit check with a score above 650...oh wait some CLEOs already do that when denying LTC apps...a low credit score shows a lack of good judgement and morals therefore the the person doesnt have the right of self-defense. |
#37
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It seems some of you people are just waiting to be offended. No one is being subjected to any slippery slope of infringement, since this is a PRIVATE business and not the government. If you don't like their policies, don't do business with them. That is your prerogative. However, I suggest before flying off the handle you actually contact them with your concerns. You'd may find yourself surprised by the some good customer service and that your overreaction was for naught. As another poster has already mentioned, a receipt for the purchase of a firearm within the last two years will suffice to meet this portion of the requirement for attending a class. Try doing just a little research before going ballistic, especially over non-issues.
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NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor American Marksman Training Group Visit our American Marksman Facebook Page Diamond Bar CCW Facebook Page NRA Memberships at Discounted fee |
#38
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Mine did not ever ask for it. But then again I live in a county that will give them out pretty easily |
#39
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Don't forget the counties like Alameda that require you maintain a a million dollar personal liability insurance policy in addition to your health/life/car/home/etc. insurance. Can't say that I've heard of a credit report required for CCW though(but it wouldn't surprise me if some agency did ask for it). |
#40
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You are not reading what our objection is..and I know a wonderful, loving and extremely well educated person who says owning a firearm = criminal intent to murder... so what does your Customer service have to do with this issue...again...ZERO Quote:
Food for Thought...There are an estimated 100,000 active gang members serving in the US Military...and over 1.5 MILLION TOTAL gang members by an FBI study. My last post here, I promise. Last edited by dieselpower; 11-19-2012 at 2:35 PM.. |
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