|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#201
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
My posts may contain general information related to the law, however, THEY ARE NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A LAWYER. I recommend you consult a lawyer if you want legal advice. No attorney-client or confidential relationship exists or will be formed between myself and any other person on the basis of these posts. Pronouns I may use (such as "you" and "your") do NOT refer to any particular person under any circumstance. |
#203
|
||||
|
||||
Maybe I am just a simpleton, but it sure seems that any sane person would be able to see it clearly. A "normal" family man goes into Dick's sporting goods store to pick up some items for weekend trip shooting with his boys, sees this cool shot indicator and buys it. Hell, I am not from this f'd up state and if I did not visit this forum I would have not even thought twice about buying the stuff and taking it to the range. We used to take our guns and go shoot in the neighborhood, it was not a big deal. We would shoot all kinds of stuff because..... it was fun. That is it, just good clean fun.
The fact is MOST people do not know this stuff is illegal. The typical BS responses around here saying "a quick search" is stupid. If the stuff is illegal when used as directed it should not be sold. If it is sold, it is reasonable to assume it will be legal to use. If this idiotic state is going to make felons out of fathers taking the kids shooting they need to go after the manufacturer and the stores selling it. Maybe that is not a legal defense, but, really, it should be. It is really simple to grasp the concept and only involves basic reasoning. I hate this state. I really do. ETA: "18720. Every person who possesses any substance, material, or any combination of substances or materials, with the intent to make any destructive device or any explosive without first obtaining a valid permit to make that destructive device or explosive, is guilty of a felony, and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for two, three, or four years. " So by this I can assume a store is an entity and not a person so they can skirt the law because, well, they are not a person. Complete and total BS. If they are going to go hang the family man for buying an illegal product, they need to hang the store owner selling the crap too.
__________________
NRA Life Member Mr. President, I can't take any more winning! Make it stop Mr. President. The winning is YUGGEEEE! "If you've got a problem with the US, you better make sure it's not a military problem." SSgt Leslie Edwards Last edited by MaHoTex; 08-23-2013 at 8:55 AM.. |
#204
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I'm an attorney and I have accounts with both PACER (Federal Court) and the Riverside County Court - both require payment for name searches. I searched both, and there were 3 cases that popped up with Tannerite as a Defendant in federal court, and nothing in Riverside County. Myself, I'm interested in seeing what an "operating outside the law" complaint against a governmental entity looks like.
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The information contained herein is general in nature, which may not apply to particular factual or legal circumstances, and is intended for informational purposes only. Consistent with Calguns policy, the information does not constitute legal advice or opinions and should not be relied upon as such. Transmission of the information is not intended to create an attorney-client relationship. Readers should not act upon any information in my posts without seeking professional counsel. |
#205
|
|||
|
|||
lane splitting: the absence of a law (somewhat off-topic)
Quote:
So it's not that it's legal, it's neither forbidden or commanded by law. There are catch-all laws though such as reckless driving and not "driving in a safe and prudent manner." I lane split. I won't get into the pro/con argument. It's about as passionate as pro/anti 2A and honestly, I won't win the argument. And when you see the message on the highway LED boards that say, "Watch out for motorcycles. Share the road," keep an eye out for us. A decent amount of motorists move over for me. Could be that's because my bike is the same model as the CHP. The rest are either motorcycle owners or aware drivers.
__________________
"Let them hate so long as they fear." |
#206
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
ETA: CHSC 12120. Illegal to sell explosives without permit.
__________________
Sorry about the typos. I browse mostly on my tablet and phone, and neither the touchscreens nor the autocorrection apps like me much. Last edited by Some Velvet-Fisted Brute; 08-23-2013 at 4:22 PM.. |
#207
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
"...if I stop you for a brake light out and happen to notice some Tannerite in your back seat, I'm witnessing a felony and have to take action. " The exact same box sitting on the shelf at Dicks is just fine and dandy, but as soon as I buy it and put it in my car it somehow is illegal. If I am just transporting it to the Gun Show to sell it, now am I ok? What is LEO Patrick going to hook someone up for? With your argument, not a thing. ALSO, I will add, Riverside County issued a statement saying possession of the components is a crime. NOTHING about intent... only simple possession BEFORE and AFTER they are mixed. Here is the exact statement from RCSO, "Exploding targets are illegal to possess in California before they are mixed, as well as after the components are mixed together." Either it IS illegal, or it IS NOT illegal. Why is this state so messed up... it drives me crazy. I wish I drank.
__________________
NRA Life Member Mr. President, I can't take any more winning! Make it stop Mr. President. The winning is YUGGEEEE! "If you've got a problem with the US, you better make sure it's not a military problem." SSgt Leslie Edwards Last edited by MaHoTex; 08-23-2013 at 2:41 PM.. |
#208
|
||||
|
||||
How is it illegal if not mixed? What if you stored them in two different containers?
That's like saying I can be arrested because I was driving with a gas can in my car and a lighter.
__________________
Just a normal guy |
#209
|
||||
|
||||
Or like saying you're carrying a weapon without committing a crime... oh wait.
|
#210
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
But if you had a bag of ammonium nitrate with a can of Diesel along with the directions to make ANFO, that would probably show intent. If you had the ingredients to "Tannerite" in containers that explained that it is to be mixed a certain way to make an exploding target, that is easier to show intent than by just having raw ingredients for "something".
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#211
|
||||
|
||||
I just wanted to add some linkage to augment my previous post regarding legality of sales: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=12120-12124
__________________
Sorry about the typos. I browse mostly on my tablet and phone, and neither the touchscreens nor the autocorrection apps like me much. |
#212
|
||||
|
||||
Unfortunately that often just isn't how the law works. Whether an act is legal or not may well be determined by what 12 random people off the street decide the "intent" was.
When you have a package like that of Tannerite (image below) which describes "BINARY EXPLODING TARGETS" and gives the steps for making the explosive along with the pronouncement that a "mixing container" in included, intent is not going to be difficult for the DA to prove.
__________________
My posts may contain general information related to the law, however, THEY ARE NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A LAWYER. I recommend you consult a lawyer if you want legal advice. No attorney-client or confidential relationship exists or will be formed between myself and any other person on the basis of these posts. Pronouns I may use (such as "you" and "your") do NOT refer to any particular person under any circumstance. |
#213
|
||||
|
||||
Amazed we are still talking about this, very simple. If you live in California, don't have anything to do with it. Problem solved.
__________________
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Range Safety Officer |
#214
|
||||
|
||||
I still have about fifteen small containers sitting on my shelf in the garage and this thread has me so paranoid I'm thinking I want to throw it out. Jeez!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
__________________
"Life Is Hard. It's Harder When You're Stupid"-John Wayne! "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder"-Michael Savage! "The Object of Life Is Not To Be On The Side Of The Majority, But To Escape Finding Oneself In The Ranks Of The Insane"-Marcus Aurelius! "Dr. Thomas Sowell Is A National Treasure"-Big Jake! |
#215
|
||||
|
||||
yeah I'd probably not post about it (or have it). That's not paranoia, that's smart.
__________________
My posts may contain general information related to the law, however, THEY ARE NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A LAWYER. I recommend you consult a lawyer if you want legal advice. No attorney-client or confidential relationship exists or will be formed between myself and any other person on the basis of these posts. Pronouns I may use (such as "you" and "your") do NOT refer to any particular person under any circumstance. |
#216
|
||||
|
||||
Tincon,
Can you comment/reply to my post #209 please? I know it was in response to Chainsaw, but I am interested in your input/thoughts. Edit to clarify: (Besides the small part you commented on.) Also, to ensure there is no miscommunication here, I do not have nor have I ever had nor used Tannerite. I really have no skin in this game, I am just having a hard time grasping how it can be legal for a store to have it and illegal for me to have it.
__________________
NRA Life Member Mr. President, I can't take any more winning! Make it stop Mr. President. The winning is YUGGEEEE! "If you've got a problem with the US, you better make sure it's not a military problem." SSgt Leslie Edwards Last edited by MaHoTex; 08-23-2013 at 7:22 PM.. |
#218
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
I'm not sure anyone is saying that selling the stuff is significantly "more legal" than owning or buying it. If they were I would have to disagree, although the case against the seller would be slightly more complicated. Quote:
Note that the statement is not: "Possession of any combination of chemicals which could be combined to form an explosive, absent any further intent, are illegal to possess in California before they are mixed, as well as after the components are mixed together." Rather, the statement is, "Exploding targets are illegal to possess in California before they are mixed, as well as after the components are mixed together." I think that the implication of the words "exploding target" is that there is criminal intent to possess explosives.
__________________
My posts may contain general information related to the law, however, THEY ARE NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A LAWYER. I recommend you consult a lawyer if you want legal advice. No attorney-client or confidential relationship exists or will be formed between myself and any other person on the basis of these posts. Pronouns I may use (such as "you" and "your") do NOT refer to any particular person under any circumstance. |
#219
|
||||
|
||||
Thank you both Chainsaw and Tincon for the explanation. It makes my head spin thinking about it all. It sure makes something simple seem complicated.
__________________
NRA Life Member Mr. President, I can't take any more winning! Make it stop Mr. President. The winning is YUGGEEEE! "If you've got a problem with the US, you better make sure it's not a military problem." SSgt Leslie Edwards |
#220
|
||||
|
||||
It’s certainly scary that a DA can have you arrested for intent. Sure we can fill an entire form with examples of possible intent. My point is, with that kind of power it can and has been abused, by overzealous DA’s without reimbursement to the defendant when found not guilty. This only encourages the DA's to continue this type of activity.
Last edited by REH; 08-24-2013 at 2:02 PM.. |
#221
|
||||
|
||||
__________________
NRA Members' Council of the High Desert President Friends of the NRA High Desert (Chairman) NRA Member Life CRPA Member Life NRA Certified RSO, Pistol & Rifle Instructor Women On Target Clinic Instructor |
#222
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
But you can bet that sure as there is money in my wallet, I won't be parting with it to buy any of this stuff, Tannerite brand or not. Nothing in this thread INCLUDING Tannerite's input from their spokesperson has put me at ease about its legality, nor has this thread given me faith in the company as being helpful or forthcoming about CA issues. Actually, just the opposite. The only explosive thing Tannerite has done in this thread... is backfire with a bang.
__________________
----------------------------------------------- Quote:
|
#223
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
Sorry about the typos. I browse mostly on my tablet and phone, and neither the touchscreens nor the autocorrection apps like me much. Last edited by Some Velvet-Fisted Brute; 08-25-2013 at 10:43 AM.. |
#224
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Even taking your argument at face value, the two components are sold for mixing to make an explosive, it's advertised as components for explosives. Just because there may be other uses for those items seems irrelevant. That would be like selling a AR pistol upper with a rifle lower as separate components, both have legal uses however you're still in constructive possession of an unregistered NFA item. |
#225
|
||||
|
||||
Grain dust or even flour can explode in sufficient quantities under the right conditions (no PhD but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express). It isn't illegal to buy a sack of flour. The point is this stuff is advertised and packaged as an unmixed binary explosive. The intent of the purchaser is clearly implied. As such both the buyer and the seller risk prosecution (see Penal Code s 182; CALJIC 3.01; Penal Code s 21a).
__________________
My posts may contain general information related to the law, however, THEY ARE NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A LAWYER. I recommend you consult a lawyer if you want legal advice. No attorney-client or confidential relationship exists or will be formed between myself and any other person on the basis of these posts. Pronouns I may use (such as "you" and "your") do NOT refer to any particular person under any circumstance. |
#226
|
||||
|
||||
Here's the text to CHSC 12000:
Quote:
All the shot-indication properties are due to the formation of a vapor/dust cloud and thunderous report. Chemically speaking, these are both secondary results of "a relatively instantaneous or rapid release of gas" or, in plainer terms, exploding. The marketing materials refer to them as binary exploding targets. If they were not explosives, they would just be targets.
__________________
Sorry about the typos. I browse mostly on my tablet and phone, and neither the touchscreens nor the autocorrection apps like me much. |
#228
|
||||
|
||||
The question is..... is it worth 10's of thousands of dollars in defense, court costs and the loss of your rights to own a firearm? That is what you have to ask yourself.
__________________
NRA MEMBER Originally Posted by ar15barrels Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there. Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on. Then you can squeeze the mustard and it will come out of the bottle.. Liberals are termites eating at the foundation of our constitution. Michael Reagan |
#229
|
||||
|
||||
Chainsaw,
A past Tannerite defendant - who managed not to lose his gunrights permanently - indicated he was questioned for quite some time by ATF guys. The ATF people were not interested in him per se, but were specifically interested in how Tannerite was sold/marketed, materials, verbal communications, etc.
__________________
Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#230
|
||||
|
||||
I predict Tannerite and all other binary explosives will soon become illegal nationally, I have read rumblings about it on many other sites that have nothing to do with California.
Sure, there is the intent thing and that the components are not illegal but we are living in the post Boston Bombing era, the politicians and lawmakers will figure out a way. I am sure that however they ban or regulate it, it will infringe on our civil rights.
__________________
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Range Safety Officer |
#232
|
||||
|
||||
Bengal, i will be making a donation soon brother. Reading about your situation, sends chills down my back. Best of luck to you.
__________________
With a gun barrel between your teeth, you speak only in vowels. |
#233
|
|||
|
|||
Donated MADE. All this bickering about it and lets just help out fellow enthusiasts and VETERANS! Will help a pay for the judgement at least. Sorry it couldn't be more....
And I am sorry. It is sold over the counter and nothing says ILLEGAL IN CALIFORNIA etc. If it is illegal here, it shouldn't be sold here. Period! |
#234
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#236
|
||||
|
||||
ive recently seen videos on this stuff
seen it for sale on ebay then spent 10 min searching here, reading up see its illegal to use here just saved myself $60,000 + in legal fees
__________________
|
#237
|
|||
|
|||
Is tannerite still legal in CA (NO - creates 'destructive device')
Title says it all. I'm a bit confused on whats up with the whole tannerite ordeal. Can you still get it? can you shoot it, etc..
|
#238
|
||||
|
||||
It's never been legal to shoot. Once you mix the binary ingredients you've created a "destructive device" which is a felony.
__________________
If you are wondering if you can get a LTC in Riverside County: THE ANSWER IS YES! Join the discussion at:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352777 |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|