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  #1  
Old 10-06-2017, 7:23 PM
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Default Hypothtical for all you experienced LEO's

Can a CA Peace Officer(PC830.5) face any sort of legal trouble for live in fiancé that legally uses marijuana for medicinal purposes? Constructive possession comes to mind as the marijuana would be in a common dwelling.
He understands that his Dept. may frown on such activity but would maintain a certain amount of separation i.e. fiancé uses marijuana ONLY for medicinal purposes and away(outside) from said LEO.
He can find no reference to said activities in POBOR or Dept. MOU and is at a crossroads in his relationship and seeking advice, opinions, personal experience etc. from LEO's ONLY. Please no advice unless you are LEO or experienced union rep for your agency.

Any CA case law in regards to referenced situation would be especially appreciated.

Thanks You.
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Last edited by WalterTheDogC@t; 10-06-2017 at 7:31 PM.. Reason: Additions
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2017, 7:32 PM
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My dept would say hell no. I think you’d still test positive due to second hand smoke, no matter how hard you’d try not to, because you live with her. Not worth the risk.
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  #3  
Old 10-06-2017, 7:49 PM
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The bottom line is that it will really depend upon the whim of your employing agency.

As practical advice, I don't see a happy ending here.

It's important to note that: 1) California has removed criminal sanctions for the use of medical marijuana. 2) Marijuana (all kinds) remain illegal under federal law. 3) Most LE agencies have policy provisions that preclude officers from fraternization with criminal folks.

I'd first review your agency's policy manual to see what type of criminal fraternization policies are in there, and how they would apply to your situation.

From the standpoint of criminal liability to your fiancé, make sure that she has no access to any of your firearms. She is a prohibited person under 18 USC 922.

From the standpoint of your potential criminal liability, make sure that you do not provide her access to firearms. You do not want to be a principle, or an accessory, to an 18 USC 922 violation. You already hit the other concern about the potential for a joint possession violation.

Plan on having a good canned response for the occasions where her suppliers ask you for "favors" due to your LE position.

If you're really serious about the relationship, I would document the circumstances in a memorandum to your chief. There's a couple of advantages to this: 1) Chiefs do not like being surprised on personnel issues. They tend to react with a vengeance when they are surprised. 2) If your chief is inclined to go on the warpath on this issue, you'll find out at the beginning, and the memo itself will serve as a bit of a "s-h-i-t shield." 3) If your chief is supportive, you'll also find out at the beginning and you'll have some coverage if the next chief wants to go down the warpath. There is also one disadvantage, plan on the memo going into your jacket and staying there.

POSTSCRIPT - I should probably clarify that your fiancé becomes a prohibited person once she becomes a user of marijuana. Given your facts in your question, it was premature to call her a prohibited person at present.
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Last edited by RickD427; 10-07-2017 at 11:43 AM..
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Old 10-06-2017, 8:29 PM
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My department would probably can you(or your friend). Unless the fiancé has legit cancer, i don't by the whole "medicinal" thing and i think most people in LE do either. The fiancé is a stoner, plain and simple. Our policies and MOUs could be flexed to lay you out and fire you.

Agencies have been known to start nit picking other policies about your work performance as a means to get rid of someone as well. I'm not saying its right, but it happens. Good luck.
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Old 10-06-2017, 8:33 PM
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Said LEO is prepared to "lockdown" all firearms and effectively deny any access to his fiancé. His fiancé was recently diagnosed with Lupus and her rheumatologist is recommending she go on methotrexate which has some pretty severe side affects hence the discussion of marijuana as an alternative treatment.

I will advise him to research Dept. policy in regards to criminal fraternization and seek advice through a union rep.

In addition, would a lockbox or safe only accessible to his fiancé effectively negate or eliminate any possibility of constructive or joint possession while living in a common dwelling?

His fiancé has yet to begin smoking marijuana and has no history of MJ use medicinal or otherwise. The whole thing is still in the "Discussion" phase.
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Last edited by WalterTheDogC@t; 10-06-2017 at 8:49 PM..
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Old 10-07-2017, 8:11 AM
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If the fiancé is a legit patient and the doctor is a legit doctor, it is possible for the legit doctor to legally prescribe a form of THC (Marinol) that is legal under federal law.

If your fiancé were to use THC in the form of Marinol, your dilemma goes away.

I'm not medically qualified to compare the effectiveness of Marinol to "old-fashioned" marijuana, I'll just note that the legal form does exist.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
If the fiancé is a legit patient and the doctor is a legit doctor, it is possible for the legit doctor to legally prescribe a form of THC (Marinol) that is legal under federal law.

If your fiancé were to use THC in the form of Marinol, your dilemma goes away.

I'm not medically qualified to compare the effectiveness of Marinol to "old-fashioned" marijuana, I'll just note that the legal form does exist.
^Word.

I'll just add this: Should "the fiance" decide to use marijuana; I would have her ask the doctor about using the marijuana in something like edibles vs smoking it.
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Old 10-08-2017, 3:57 PM
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If the department or agency has random drug testing that employee is walking a thin line. If he comes up dirty, the my roomie uses medical MJ defense will get him a oneway ticket to the unemployment line. If it were me she would either get on a different prescription med or one of us would get out of the house. If she truly cared for him and his career choice she would do that.
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Old 10-08-2017, 8:40 PM
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Well, they had a major falling out over this issue and he's moving into an apartment and will likely leave her permanently.
Pretty sad situation all the way around...
But, life goes on!
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Old 10-08-2017, 8:45 PM
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It is not worth the risk. It also sounds like she has chosen the habit over him already. I’m basing this on the fact you mentioned no terminal illness or made any mentions of the use of marinol.

From an ethical standpoint this does not sit well.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2017, 10:23 PM
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Even tho the subject matter appears to be moot, I will post a part of the OP's post. I do so so every non leo tempted to reply in this and every other thread in the LEO forum when the OP requests the following, doesn't reply.

Quote:
Please no advice unless you are LEO or experienced union rep for your agency.
Despite the fact the OP was explicitly clear, a member responded and even admitted from the get go that he/she was not a leo. Every member should read the rules for this specialty forum in the sticky near the top of the forum.

Thank you.
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2017, 6:43 PM
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Honestly... My agency probably wouldn't care as long as the guy didn't give a positive random UA.

I'm pretty sure we have Officers with immediate family members who use medical pot, and I know for a fact that some of our non-sworn staff have immediate family members who do.

I'm going to point out an important distinction in the OP. He/she specifically mentioned the "friend" is an 830.5 LEO would pretty much means a PA or a DPO. CDCR will definitely can you for this sort of thing, but generally, probation departments have a lot more variation in what they deem "appropriate" behavior outside of work. If the friend is a DPO, then it's next to impossible to say what his admin would think without knowing their department.
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Old 10-10-2017, 9:41 AM
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3 things kill LE jobs:

Booze

Bills

Badge Bunnies (I would define as op relevant here).
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2017, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911su16b870 View Post
3 things kill LE jobs:

Booze

Bills

Badge Bunnies (I would define as op relevant here).
The three B's... Was introduced to that terminology many moons ago in training by some VERY experienced retired LEO's.

My buddy will probably be out by the weekend and is staying somewhere else for the time being. I honestly feel empathy for them both. He feels betrayed as she is obviously choosing something that could endanger their seemingly bright future together and she has a very serious illness that may see some relief from controlled MJ use vs. a rough run with methotrexate or other harsh prescriptions. Effe'ed up for all parties involved.

He has sought advice through union channels and been advised that going on record would likely have adverse actions taken against him. And she seemingly won't budge on the subject.
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Old 10-10-2017, 11:10 PM
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Why on Earth would anybody with so much to lose put themselves in that situation? As long as state and federal laws disagree, you’re a loser in that fight.

IMO her to keep that ***** out of the house and smoke it elsewhere. Why be the test case or find yourself unfavored for promotion/special units?

Nobody regulates what they use to grow that extra potent stuff anyways so your girlfriend might reconsider her medicinal choice, or maybe you need a different girlfriend.
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Old 10-11-2017, 9:03 AM
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i know the question was asked to leos. but i just have to add.

as a class A truck driver ( frozen foods) i would lose everything if i tested pos for pot.
the reason i got it into my system is mute.
and my union would just say go away.

i no deffernce for a leo and his job.


not to sound like i am bashing any. just a simple thought. play with /hang around others doing illegal / mood / mind altering drugs is not good.

i do wish the best for the lady. and this officer.
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Old 10-11-2017, 8:08 PM
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Why would this LEO's department know about this? Less the dept knows the better.
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Old 10-11-2017, 8:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM_ONE View Post
Why would this LEO's department know about this? Less the dept knows the better.
Tom,

I can pretty much guarantee you that the department is going to find out. There's just too many different possible ways, but let me list just a few:
1) A supplier of marijuana to the fiancé gets busted and offers to "work off" the charge by implicating the LEO (even for stuff that he didn't do).

2) The relationship sours and the now-bitter ex-fiancé reports the LEO.

3) The LEO tests positive during random urinalysis.

4) Their home gets burglarized and responding LEOs make a report.

5) and the list goes on...
The real problem is that when the chief of the department finds out, and finds out after this has been going on for a while, and finds out from sources other than the officer, the resulting "explosion" is not going to be pleasant.
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Last edited by RickD427; 10-11-2017 at 8:33 PM..
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Old 10-12-2017, 3:41 AM
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My probation department will separate you for this type of situation. We will separate if you are dating a felon. We are peace officers and must abide by all laws. Even though we are 830.5, we still need to follow the law.

Most people forget that marijuana is still classified as a schedule 1 drug. It is in the same class as heroin and cocain. Should a department look the other way when a girlfriend is using heroin. The answer is no. It doesnt matter what california says when the fed law still has it as a schedule 1 violation of the fed law.

We have and will separate for this situation. It is sad for this couple, but if the partner is willing to sacrafice their relationship, then its time to move on.

The sooner he moves on the better. If he were to stick around for a year and the department finds out, he is using poor judgement. If he finds out and ends the relationship, then he is doing what the dept expects and he wont be separated.

Last edited by CaptMike; 10-12-2017 at 9:47 PM..
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Old 10-15-2017, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterTheDogC@t View Post
Well, they had a major falling out over this issue and he's moving into an apartment and will likely leave her permanently.
Pretty sad situation all the way around...
But, life goes on!
Things then have a way of working out I guess.

Does the fiance have a terminal illness or a potentially terminal illness? If that is the case I tend to believe most agencies if given that info upfront would be understanding----- as long as it is upfront.

If the drug is for something less compelling.... well, like I said, worked it's way out.
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