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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:53 AM
Starslinger Starslinger is offline
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Default Best carry position for full size handgun?

I'm giving up on the idea of conceal carrying my CZ Rami as the gun is just too small for me and I don't shoot it very well. I wouldn't want to carry a gun that I don't shoot well. So now I'm thinking about carrying my CZ SP-01, which is a full-size steel frame gun. The weight of the gun is nothing to me, but it is a large gun and hard to conceal compared to the Rami.

I have found a couple of holsters that I'm considering from a company called Privateer Leather. One of them, a holster they call the "Navigant", is a "high-riding" holster that helps with concealment (it's an OWB holster). The Navigant has a forward cant. There is also a holster called the "Rogue" that is a "mid-riding" holster with a straight drop (no cant and OWB) that I could get. The guy from Privateer Leather sent me a photo illustrating how the various holsters would ride in relation to the belt line. While experimenting with my (unloaded) SP-01 tucked into my belt at the high and mid riding positions, I found that I could still sit down without the gun barrel digging into my genitals.

I feel that the SP-01 conceals best at the 1:30 position, which I think means that a zero cant holster would be better. I haven't really been considering IWB at the moment because it seemed extremely uncomfortable the few times I tried it (just used a Sticky Holster and put it IWB at various positions). It seems a bit dangerous to carry appendix, but my gun does have a manual safety which makes me feel a lot better about it.

I've been searching for articles on the internet, but maybe someone could give me some additional advice or point me to a good article. Thank you!
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:59 AM
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That's a big heavy gun to be carrying around every day. I sincerely hope you stick with it and don't leave it at home when you need it most (hopefully never). I think a slightly smaller and/or lighter gun is more likely to be carried 24/7. Nothing worse than the gun you left at home because it's bulky/uncomfortable/etc.
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:37 PM
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I carry my P-01 around the 1 o'clock position. The forward cant definitely helps to hide the grip. With a zero cant I'd be printing pretty bad. Also with the forward cant, the muzzle will point away from your jewels (eases your mind).

I've found appendix carry is my favorite. Just pay more attention to holtstering/unholstering and it's just fine.

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Old 07-10-2018, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason25 View Post
I carry my P-01 around the 1 o'clock position. The forward cant definitely helps to hide the grip. With a zero cant I'd be printing pretty bad. Also with the forward cant, the muzzle will point away from your jewels (eases your mind).

I've found appendix carry is my favorite. Just pay more attention to holtstering/unholstering and it's just fine.

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You carry at 1 o'clock with a forward cant? I tried that and I felt like the gun didn't settle into position well. I'm slightly overweight. Are you thin?
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Old 07-10-2018, 1:00 PM
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I carry a full size 1911 with a mounted light on my strong side, OWB. I wear a T-shirt and a unbuttoned short sleeved collared shirt as a cover garment.
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Old 07-10-2018, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
You carry at 1 o'clock with a forward cant? I tried that and I felt like the gun didn't settle into position well. I'm slightly overweight. Are you thin?
Yeah my stomach is flat. Honestly AIWB may not be the best option for someone overweight. Dont take it the wrong way, just makes it a little difficult.

I went through several holsters before landing the stealth gear mini. Happened to try it at 1 o'clock and fit like a glove.


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Old 07-10-2018, 11:39 PM
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Full size 1911 - 3:30 IWB Galco VHawk - T-shirt - opened button down shirt as cover. I can also do camp shirts and still get enough clearance to draw if buttoned.

Steve

(Get a good stiff belt)
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:00 AM
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You are quite ballsy (no pun intended) thinking of carrying appendix with a leather holster...

Check out Tier1 Concealed, they make insanely high quality kydex for appendix carry, and they have one for the SP-01. The wing/claw's on those suckers will help conceal just about anything. GL
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:31 AM
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I understand that you don't shoot a sub-compact well, but does that mean you have to go with a steel frame full size? Ever consider a compact with an alloy or polymer frame?
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:35 AM
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I'm 5'10, 165lb, and have a Beretta 92 Brigadier listed on my permit. But I only carry it during winter months (when I wear a coat all day), and I do so OWB at 4 o'clock. With a baggy t-shirt I can sometimes even get away with it minus the coat, but usually I don't try. Once spring rolls around, the 92 gets replaced with something a lot smaller, until the next fall.

Moral of the story is - your full-size might be great for CCW *sometimes*, but you should really consider something smaller as well so you don't always have to figure out how to hide that monster.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:34 PM
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When i was about 30 pounds lighter,flat stomach,i carried at 1 o’clock,it wasnt very comfy.6 was way more comfy,and i carry usp45f,g17,old fat grip g21 with a comp tac mtac iwb
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:37 PM
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I carry a FNX 45 or a 226 Legion with a pancake holster at 3:00 and I tend to wear loose un-tucked shirts.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:58 PM
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You can carry a full size gun at appendix with the right holster. With a full size gun it becomes very important that the holster have a wing/claw feature to help tuck the butt of the grip in and along your body line. You can check out the JM Custom AIWB-WC holster and variants for an example. Link to the review I did below...there's pictures of how things look concealing a full size 1911.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...hlight=holster
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Old 07-12-2018, 5:33 AM
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It is not the location, but the platform and various attributes including: loop location, cant, ride height, and features (wing, wedge, gap, cant and sweat shield). I like split loops strong side and loops close together for appendix carry. I mention sweat shield because it affects how you move when the gun is out. Kydex holsters may dig into you if you lean forward. Wedges tilt the back of slide into you. Wings tilt the grip into you but can cause the rear of the slide or attachment device to print. You have to balance things.

I use the following:

1) Bigfoot Gun Belts 14 oz steel core 1 1/2” wide belt. This is essential. Pure leather, even double thickness from Milt Sparks, break down and everything starts flopping around.

2) A loose shirt. Straight cut from armpits. Tapered does not work. I will wear an undershirt if needed.

3) Strong side carry:

Milt Sparks (MS) Criterion or Versa Max 2. The Criterion had more forward cant than the VM 2, but the Criterion is not available for revolvers and some semi autos. I replace the rear strap with a rubber Pull the Dot strap to get 25 degrees of cant.

I carry: S&W 629 4” with Herretts Stocks Jordan Troopers (huge and heavy...largest gun I own), Glock 21, 1911 Government...all the way down to Glock 43. I have a drawer full of Criterions and VM2 holsters.

This is the best combination I have found. Glock 19 sized guns disappear with this setup.

Other makers have equivalent holsters.

4) Appendix carry.

I have many, including some I have built. My Glock 26 holster is best for that gun. But, since I don’t make holsters any more, my favorite commercial maker is JM Custom Kydex (JMCK). I use their AIWB 2.5 almost exclusively. It has a wing, wedge and sweat shield. These are essential, though too much wing can cause issues. I carry a S&W M&P 45 M2.0 in this rig. It is the same size as a Glock 21 (except with shorter slide) or Commander 1911. I have AIWB 2.5’s for large and small guns.

My favorite Glock 43 holster is from Huckleberry Tactical (HT). It is a Grab and Go with wing. No wedge but it has a gap between belt and gun that works. I used to like HT, but most of their designs have clip attachments at the bottom of the holster. This causes problems with adjustment.

5) Ammo Holders

I always protect my ammo and I always carry at least 12 extra rounds. I try to carry at least 20 extra rounds (carrying 24 extra rounds of 44 Special or Magnum can be a challenge). In general, I use the Milt Sparks IPS (IWB holster with single loop, up front or behind the hip) and S4C (OWB, behind the hip only). I use JMCK AIWB canted mag holders up front or MS IPS with the loop at an angle (it will work its way to that anyway).

For revolvers, I use a Split Six loader holder (Safariland but many companies offer them), custom moon clip holder, Remora mag holder, a kydex loop, or a Bianchi Speed Strip holder made from leather.

Notes on the Raven Concealment Morrigan:

I mention this because it works in both the strong side and appendix positions. It has a wing built into the trigger area. The loops are adjustable such that you can arrange for reverse cant for AIWB or 25 degrees of forward cant. The downside is the loops are together and can allow some flopping on a bad belt. I use this holster for my M&P M2.0 9mm guns.
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Old 07-12-2018, 5:58 AM
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FYI, several makers offer apeendix carry holsters in leather with wings.

jrcholsters.com Watson Special http://jrcholsters.com/index.php/hol...-the-waistband
Garrity In Victus: http://www.garritysgunleather.com/In-Victus.htm
5 Shot Leather SME: http://www.5shotleather.com/sme.htm
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Old 07-12-2018, 6:57 AM
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Thank you for all that information, tomrkba. It will take a little time to digest as I'm not really familiar with all those holster features. I have a question: I don't see much information on OUTSIDE the waistband appendix carry. Just sticking my (unloaded) gun into my belt but outside of my pants this felt like a comfortable way to carry and it concealed pretty well under a loose shirt. Is there a reason people don't advocate for OWB carry at 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock position?
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Old 07-12-2018, 7:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starslinger View Post
Thank you for all that information, tomrkba. It will take a little time to digest as I'm not really familiar with all those holster features. I have a question: I don't see much information on OUTSIDE the waistband appendix carry. Just sticking my (unloaded) gun into my belt but outside of my pants this felt like a comfortable way to carry and it concealed pretty well under a loose shirt. Is there a reason people don't advocate for OWB carry at 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock position?
Once you put an actual holster there, you're liable to find that it pushes the gun out too far and it prints. But if you can find a holster that works, I don't see anything wrong with this. You may also try an OWB cross draw holster/position. I've never tried it but some people love it.
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Old 07-12-2018, 9:46 AM
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I prefer a fanny pack when it's hot and a Glaco shoulder rig when it's not. The fanny pack is a "red flag" to anyone in the "know" but most people don't know.

I also own a couple 511 holster undershirts that I sometimes wear under an untucked shirt when a shoulder rig or fanny pack is impractical. See: https://www.511tactical.com/holster-shirt.html.
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Old 07-12-2018, 1:41 PM
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For one, is the Rami a "new" gun.....did you practice much with it? Or similar-size guns?

I do all my CCW at 3:30-4:00, IWB, best comfort and peace of mind for me.


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Old 07-12-2018, 7:25 PM
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I carry my full size 1911 occasionally, 4:30 in a tuckable hybrid just like everything else. Yeah you have to tighten your belt and the belt needs to be good.



I'll agree it's not the best carry piece.
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Old 07-13-2018, 1:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
For one, is the Rami a "new" gun.....did you practice much with it? Or similar-size guns?

I do all my CCW at 3:30-4:00, IWB, best comfort and peace of mind for me.


.
The Rami is newer than my SP-01, but I did practice with the Rami for several months and I changed the sights twice. I tried shooting both hands, one hand, slow trigger pull, loose grip, tight grip, weaver stance, isosceles stance, using an SP-01 mag as an extended grip, using the extended Rami mag with sleeve as an extended grip, anything that I could think of to improve my shooting of the Rami. The only other thing that I would have liked to try would be sending the gun to Cajun Gun Works and seeing if a lighter, shorter trigger pull might help. But I don't want to waste $400 on upgrading the Rami because it seems likely that I'm just going to sell it.

Thanks for everyone for your responses. I appreciate the help!
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Old 07-13-2018, 9:35 PM
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I always carry in the same location/position. Size wise, doesn’t matter to me. I want it in the same spot. 1911/G41 to Kahr/G42, always in the same place. Habits, repetition and muscle memory work best for me if location, regardless of firearm/holster combination, remains the same.
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Old 07-14-2018, 5:23 AM
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Where are you OP? If in Southern Cal go see www.PackinFurDefense.com Orange Counties Concealed Carry Store - Mission Viejo
grantar2 he will help you.
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Old 07-14-2018, 9:37 AM
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Where are you OP? If in Southern Cal go see www.PackinFurDefense.com Orange Counties Concealed Carry Store - Mission Viejo
grantar2 he will help you.
Thanks for the suggestion. But I'm up North near Redding.
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Old 07-17-2018, 6:22 PM
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Default Best carry position

OP; see if you can try a Milt Sparks VM2 IWB holster; I have one for each of my carry guns; they are very comfortable and make even a fairly large gun (Sig P220C) almost disappear. I’m 5’7” 175, as long as I wear a slightly large T-shirt I can hide my small and medium weapons; the P220C requires a light jacket to effectively conceal and confident that I’m not printing.

I carry in the 4:00 position with a good quality gun belt; a stout belt is very important.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:53 PM
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I'm not very big...5' 6"/180 lbs.
I use either a Blue Alpha Gear nylon belt or Alien Gear steel core leather belt with a Galco King Tuk and carry a G23 and G22. I've been carrying the G22 almost exclusively for a while now. I usually carry at 3 o'clock and wear a t-shirt slightly on the large side. Super comfortable and easy to conceal with the right holster/belt/clothing combo.
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Old 07-18-2018, 1:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason25 View Post
I carry my P-01 around the 1 o'clock position. The forward cant definitely helps to hide the grip. With a zero cant I'd be printing pretty bad. Also with the forward cant, the muzzle will point away from your jewels (eases your mind).

I've found appendix carry is my favorite. Just pay more attention to holtstering/unholstering and it's just fine.

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Well, since updated with a TRex Raptor @ 1230. Now have a Tier 1 Axis slim on the way. The SG may be in the marketplace really soon!

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Old 07-21-2018, 1:30 PM
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Privateer makes top shelf holsters, I have a couple. Via email or phone they will make sure you get what you need.
At this stage in my life, comfort is more important than absolute, total concealment. The longer you carry, the more important comfort becomes.
That said, I carry a round butt Commander 1911 at about 2:00. Current holster of choice is an Avenger style OWB. With just a little loose fitting tee, the firearm disappears.
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Old 08-10-2018, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomshaka View Post
You are quite ballsy (no pun intended) thinking of carrying appendix with a leather holster...

Check out Tier1 Concealed, they make insanely high quality kydex for appendix carry, and they have one for the SP-01. The wing/claw's on those suckers will help conceal just about anything. GL
I've since purchased 2 of these and debating to get one for my G17. I think I can get away with concealing it with T1C's design.

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Old 08-16-2018, 8:14 PM
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3:00 position with FBI Cant works well for my G17
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Old 08-16-2018, 8:30 PM
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I carry a Smith 1006 full size in a Crossbreed QuickClip at 3:30 IWB with a 15% cant, a good carry belt and a loose cover shirt.

Only time it is an issue is when going commando because the bottom of the slide rides my *** and sometimes in the summer it gets hot.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44fred View Post
Privateer makes top shelf holsters, I have a couple. Via email or phone they will make sure you get what you need.
At this stage in my life, comfort is more important than absolute, total concealment. The longer you carry, the more important comfort becomes.
That said, I carry a round butt Commander 1911 at about 2:00. Current holster of choice is an Avenger style OWB. With just a little loose fitting tee, the firearm disappears.
Wes at Privateer is making me a variant of his Rogue design. This design will ride a little higher and tuck the gun butt in a bit more. I have to wait until October to get it, but I think it will work well.
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