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Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

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  #1  
Old 12-18-2017, 12:41 PM
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Default Opinions on picking patrol rifle

First off, yes I used the search button.

My friend works for a different agency as I do and is getting a rifle (AR) from the department. The way they operate is they give Ofcrs a lower receiver and let them complete the upper with how they see fit.

A few requirements is a 16 inch barrel, pinned 14.5 is acceptable, and it has to be black. Of course this opens up Pandora's box with options and I'm almost glad my agency is a little more restrictive. Lol.

He is on a budget as he is remodelling his first home but is putting a little money aside for the upper.

Finally the question. Given a budget, what brand upper would you go with or maybe more importantly, which brands would you stay away from? What features would be a must have for you?

Also, building the upper is also an option.



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  #2  
Old 12-18-2017, 12:54 PM
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You can't go wrong with the uppers from BCM. Its a proven brand. I've carried both Daniel Defense and BCM in a patrol rifle capacity and I love my BCM.
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2017, 1:06 PM
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+1 on BCM.


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  #4  
Old 12-18-2017, 1:15 PM
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BCM 14.5 pinned.
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2017, 1:24 PM
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BCM, Noveske, Daniel Defense or Colt are all acceptable.

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  #6  
Old 12-18-2017, 1:35 PM
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I agree with BCM, great stuff. That was actually the first thing I recommended to him.

BCM isn't necessarily out of his price range, however it is going to be a little on the pricey side for him. Even if you bought the most basic 14.5 inch M4 upper, you still have to add hand guards/forend, a bolt, charging handle, and have some sort of muzzle device pinned on. This will probably put him at about $600-700 roughly.

My private purchase rifle is a M&P 15T. I consider it more of a mid range rifle but in my experience, the thing has been absolutely solid.

I'm wondering if something at the same level of quality as my M&P would be more suitable for his budget however it's hard to recommend something other than top of the line stuff because of how much is out there.


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  #7  
Old 12-18-2017, 3:03 PM
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Cheapest BCM. Quality upper at a reasonable price, assembled by a company with a solid reputation. For me, having a warranty is huge.

For features, I would want a fixed FSB, lightweight barrel, and hand guards that let me mount a VFG, sling loop, and white light. Flat top upper with a folding rear sight and (ASAP) a red dot. I like the Magpul MOE stuff a lot, and the Magpul Pro BUIS rear without elevation adjustment is great. A Surefire G2X Tactical in a 1” scope ring will mount to a rail section.

Blitzkrieg Components makes some really nice front sight posts if a red dot adds too much cost.
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2017, 4:14 PM
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Edit - I’m not LE. Sorry if I wasn’t supposed to post.

Interesting - buddy is LE and if deputies wanted to purchase their own rifle, they had a list of manufacturers to choose from. I think the colt 6920 was the cheapest one.

Anyhow, put together a rifle for a friend - BCM 14.5” with welded/pinned muzzle brake. Rifle was smooth to shoot. Friends that are LE have a flashlight on rifles. One was running irons and the other a red dot.

I’d keep it simple - adjustable stock, stock trigger pull weight (maybe an ALG), red dot and irons, flashlight, I like a smal fvg, and muzzle brake/flash hider combo. The lightweight, 14.5” barrel made it light and maneuverable.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2017, 5:11 PM
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Almost any name brand is gtg.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2017, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley536 View Post
He is on a budget as he is remodelling his first home but is putting a little money aside for the upper.

Finally the question. Given a budget, what brand upper would you go with or maybe more importantly, which brands would you stay away from? What features would be a must have for you?

Also, building the upper is also an option.
If your friend is going to be carrying this weapon on duty into situations where he might have to use it to save his life or that of another, then forget about that “On a budget” crap.

Luckily, AR prices are at historic lows right now so it is a buyer’s market everywhere. Still, it is an unwise idea to pench pennies on life saving equipment.

I don’t know if an upper could be assembled cheaper than buying a complete one, but I doubt it. Get a quality built upper, assemble it to the department lower, and train like the devil with it.
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2017, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
If your friend is going to be carrying this weapon on duty into situations where he might have to use it to save his life or that of another, then forget about that “On a budget” crap.

Luckily, AR prices are at historic lows right now so it is a buyer’s market everywhere. Still, it is an unwise idea to pench pennies on life saving equipment.

I don’t know if an upper could be assembled cheaper than buying a complete one, but I doubt it. Get a quality built upper, assemble it to the department lower, and train like the devil with it.
When I say budget, I'm not talking about going and buying some parts from a gun show and putting it together to use on duty.

More along the lines of not spending unnecessary money on things that are overkill, ex: someone saying get a Geissele rail or the gun is worthless. We all agree that Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske, etc, are solid choices. It doesn't mean there aren't other solid choices out there that don't cost as much.

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  #12  
Old 12-18-2017, 7:20 PM
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I see most guys in neighboring agencies using the Colt LE6940 or MP Tactical/MOE. I’m sure both can be had just upper only and are reasonable in price. I use a LWRC and have no complaints. Several coworkers use LMT uppers that have been rock solid with no complaints.
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  #13  
Old 12-18-2017, 9:13 PM
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For duty use, Colt Colt and Colt. Period.
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2017, 9:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
For duty use, Colt Colt and Colt. Period.
LOL; you must be related to one of my armorers.....

Where I work (and probably any other LE agency in the US), we don't use our AR-15's anywhere near as much as, say, a military combat unit would. That being said; we have never had a failure with our Colt rifles. Take it FWIW
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley536 View Post
First off, yes I used the search button.

My friend works for a different agency as I do and is getting a rifle (AR) from the department. The way they operate is they give Ofcrs a lower receiver and let them complete the upper with how they see fit.

A few requirements is a 16 inch barrel, pinned 14.5 is acceptable, and it has to be black. Of course this opens up Pandora's box with options and I'm almost glad my agency is a little more restrictive. Lol.

He is on a budget as he is remodelling his first home but is putting a little money aside for the upper.

Finally the question. Given a budget, what brand upper would you go with or maybe more importantly, which brands would you stay away from? What features would be a must have for you?

Also, building the upper is also an option.



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They make you purchase the upper and accessories ?
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fawndog View Post
They make you purchase the upper and accessories ?
Not the agency I'm with, we are issued ours with the option of buying your own.

My friend works for a smaller agency and they do have AR's in the car, unknown type. If you want your own, the Ofcr is supplied the lower and completes the upper on their own.

Different way of doing things for sure.

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  #17  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley536 View Post
Not the agency I'm with, we are issued ours with the option of buying your own.

My friend works for a smaller agency and they do have AR's in the car, unknown type. If you want your own, the Ofcr is supplied the lower and completes the upper on their own.

Different way of doing things for sure.

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Guess they don't have to worry about the whole "we want the 'assault weapon' back after you retire" thing..

If he is given a "generic" AR; why bother building his own right now? Do they not allow him to train as much with it or something? If money was tight I'd just use that and wait to build something else... if I ever did build anything else with my own money (not sure how much they are allowed, if at all, to customize the other rifle...).
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  #18  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
For duty use, Colt Colt and Colt. Period.
+1 for this. Just buy a colt. You won't go wrong. They are the OG in the game and parts are milspec
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  #19  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CBR_rider View Post
LOL; you must be related to one of my armorers.....

Where I work (and probably any other LE agency in the US), we don't use our AR-15's anywhere near as much as, say, a military combat unit would. That being said; we have never had a failure with our Colt rifles. Take it FWIW
I'm on the range staff for my department and we are the same way. Nothing but colt for duty use. You can get a Chiefs letter for a personal rifle but you cannot go 10-8 with it. We supply everyone with the same colts, same steel mags, and same aimpoint sight, sighted in to the same zero.
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  #20  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:17 PM
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Yeah but this video proves this is the rifle to have. Lol.

https://youtu.be/g2rG8xXfDbg

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  #21  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:23 PM
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You can buy a complete Colt 6920 or 6921 upper from Arms Unlimited for $620 USD shipped. GandR Tactical is a little more at $685 USD, but they have complete 6721 uppers if you want it to be lighter.

Any name brand upper from BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense, or LMT would suffice. LMT make damn good AR's and uppers, huge military supplier, and their bolt carrier groups are my favorite.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
I'm on the range staff for my department and we are the same way. Nothing but colt for duty use. You can get a Chiefs letter for a personal rifle but you cannot go 10-8 with it. We supply everyone with the same colts, same steel mags, and same aimpoint sight, sighted in to the same zero.
Is there some liability with a officer modified issue duty weapon ?
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  #23  
Old 12-18-2017, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley536 View Post
When I say budget, I'm not talking about going and buying some parts from a gun show and putting it together to use on duty.

More along the lines of not spending unnecessary money on things that are overkill, ex: someone saying get a Geissele rail or the gun is worthless. We all agree that Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske, etc, are solid choices. It doesn't mean there aren't other solid choices out there that don't cost as much.

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Well that is good to hear. I have PSA, Spikes, Windham, S&W, Stag, and Ruger. All of them work perfectly, and I would carry any one of them on duty with full confidence. You can't go wrong with Colt, I just don't own one personally.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fawndog View Post
Is there some liability with a officer modified issue duty weapon ?
Yes, especially for the officer. Department issued guns are only worked on by department armorers, and aftermarket optional guns are supposed to be kept in 100% factory specs.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley536 View Post
Yeah but this video proves this is the rifle to have. Lol.

https://youtu.be/g2rG8xXfDbg

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I have a couple PSA AR's. All of them work perfectly and shoot as well as anything else I have. Shooting all day in the desert with reloads and whatever other ammo I scrounge and dirty as hell, they keep on ticking. I find the indoor range commando operator brand whore snobbery against them hilarious.
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Old 12-18-2017, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fawndog View Post
Is there some liability with a officer modified issue duty weapon ?
There's liability just driving a cop car down the street. It's a training consistency thing. We all train on the same rifles the same way. Some cops are not gun people so we have to dumb some things down. It's just good practice to teach everyone how to operate the same rifles with the same sights, same ammo, and same controls.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR_rider View Post
Guess they don't have to worry about the whole "we want the 'assault weapon' back after you retire" thing..

If he is given a "generic" AR; why bother building his own right now? Do they not allow him to train as much with it or something? If money was tight I'd just use that and wait to build something else... if I ever did build anything else with my own money (not sure how much they are allowed, if at all, to customize the other rifle...).
Once I read your comment I had to find out what the benefit was to having your own. Apparently there are basic M4's in the cars. Everybody it's basically trained on it and that's it. If you get your own rifle, it opens the door for you to get more advanced training from the department and outside agencies. Also, you can add optics, lights, etc to your rifle.

I'd say the follow on training makes it worth it. I'm assuming the whole networking side of things comes into play as well. Got to know the right people!

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Old 12-19-2017, 2:48 AM
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Originally Posted by harley536 View Post
Once I read your comment I had to find out what the benefit was to having your own. Apparently there are basic M4's in the cars. Everybody it's basically trained on it and that's it. If you get your own rifle, it opens the door for you to get more advanced training from the department and outside agencies. Also, you can add optics, lights, etc to your rifle.

I'd say the follow on training makes it worth it. I'm assuming the whole networking side of things comes into play as well. Got to know the right people!

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Well, in that case I would definitely get my own rifle. Seems weird they can't train with the AR they are issued; but maybe they have pool cars with pool rifles or something.
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  #29  
Old 12-19-2017, 8:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
For duty use, Colt Colt and Colt. Period.
My agency had a problem with Colt fulfilling the contract. We buy many rifles/carbines at a time, and one contract took a year to be delivered. They finally got fed up and started using FN products. It seems working well.
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Old 12-19-2017, 9:28 AM
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http://jprifles.com/1.2.3_JP15ORRC.php




JP Rifles are the BEST!!!! Accuracy is second to none. Beautifully crafted and made of the best components. I would easily get one of thee over something else. Are these the cheapest...................NO, but they are simply one of the BEST out there.
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  #31  
Old 12-19-2017, 9:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBR_rider View Post
LOL; you must be related to one of my armorers.....

Where I work (and probably any other LE agency in the US), we don't use our AR-15's anywhere near as much as, say, a military combat unit would. That being said; we have never had a failure with our Colt rifles. Take it FWIW
Hahaha, pretty close. My current partner at work recently came from our swat team. He was the swat armorer. He lives and breathes only colt and Hk. Lol. I hear it from him daily.
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  #32  
Old 12-19-2017, 9:54 AM
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My department issues the Magpul Colt 6920s and allows us to buy our own from several different brands like BCM, DD, LWRC, etc.

I bought my own Colt and had our range staff do some modifications to it to suit my personal tastes. Other than that, it’s fairly stock. I opted for the Colt because of price and reliability. The thing runs and runs really well.
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Old 12-20-2017, 10:06 AM
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I also purchased a Colt 6920 and set it up with Magpul MOE, EOtech sight, surefire light and three point sling.

Keep in mind for a duty weapon and its intended use (potentially over long periods, holding it up while clearing buildings, etc), you want it to be light, non-bulky, simple, and have very high quality components that will not break or fail on you. It's very different than equipping an AR for range use with lots of doodads.
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  #34  
Old 12-20-2017, 10:15 AM
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I would have my buddy save up and buy an LMT CQB piston upper.

http://www.quanticotactical.com/asp/...M4%20and%20MRP)

not many better than that right there. it also should be a tax write off.
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  #35  
Old 12-20-2017, 1:43 PM
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I think your friends department has a potentially troubling policy of allowing "what-ever" make or configuration on top of a department (organization/city owned) lower.

1. The rifle must work 100% of the time every time.
2. Many folks may not put in the required # of training hours and rounds to ensure 1 above is met.
3. When you deploy a patrol rifle, in the gravest extreme, you need 100% assurance that operator/rifle will work every time.

IMO nothing good can ever come from customizing a dust cover/rifle parts with whatever slogan etc. operators place on them in a LE/scrutinized arena.

Because of budget/cost IMO his department should issue complete rifles (upper and lower) to the designated officers for their initial training and then patrol.

Colt 6920 or 6940.
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  #36  
Old 12-20-2017, 7:41 PM
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Just curious if the new Ruger MPR would be acceptable for duty. Its not high end expensive, but there are some Ruger Mini-14s on patrol now, so Ruger does have a following. Pus if you bang it up on patrol, its not a hard loss. Good rifle for patrol I would think.

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  #37  
Old 12-20-2017, 9:01 PM
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Just curious if the new Ruger MPR would be acceptable for duty. Its not high end expensive, but there are some Ruger Mini-14s on patrol now, so Ruger does have a following. Pus if you bang it up on patrol, its not a hard loss. Good rifle for patrol I would think.

It's not a colt therefore will not be used at my dept.
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Old 12-20-2017, 9:24 PM
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Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
It's not a colt therefore will not be used at my dept.
Ok, other than your department.
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  #39  
Old 12-20-2017, 11:18 PM
Bobby Ricigliano's Avatar
Bobby Ricigliano Bobby Ricigliano is offline
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I have the El Cheapo Ruger AR-556 that set me back a whopping $569, including the flip up rear BUIS and Monsterman Grip. I have put around 350 rounds through it and so far it performs as well as my other AR’s, not to mention the Colt M4’s we have at work and the Colt and FN M-16’s I trained with in the military.

Therefore, I will predict that the rifle posted above would perform great.
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  #40  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:55 AM
Rapid Cool Rapid Cool is offline
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Bobby- Thank you for the feedback.
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