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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#42
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The proper blame for AB249 lies with CBS news, Leeland Yee and the idiots making "mag magnets".
It's not illegal to manufacture "mag magnets" (yet) and it's not illegal to neglect telling your customers that the improper use of their product is a felony but it is really stupid. It's only mildly illegal to run a gun show video "sting" operation where the rules specify no photography but it is despicable. It's not illegal to be a total *** after you are elected to the California assembly but Leeland Yee likes to be that way. All stupid and all a bad idea but it happens. Do you want to be part of the solution or part of the problem? UOC first became an issue in CA when it got publicized in the 2008 election campaign (outside of CA). Then groups in CA started doing it very visibly which added fuel to the fire. Now long gun carry may be banned. If some guy hadn't been on the Obama campaign route with an empty AR15, we might have avoided all of this but Californians who practiced UOC made sure that we got here. It's impossible to put the geenie back in the bottle but that doesn't mean we can't learn from our mistakes. Don't rile up the soccer moms, don't talk to the media and don't sell "felony buttons". If we could do that we would get a lot more time to fight the real battles like LTC issuance problems, "assault weapon" bans and "gun free school zones" (which aren't really gun free). |
#43
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Open carry is an instant disadvantage when dealing with violent offenders. Take that into consideration when you're contemplating such measures. People want concealed carry for a reason. A majority of the states in the nation, have shall issue license to carry laws, which is contrary to your reasoning.
Last edited by RRangel; 07-05-2012 at 10:23 PM.. |
#44
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That's why the gays have been successful in California but gun owners have not. It's exactly the inverse in many other states. |
#45
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Last edited by Shotgun Man; 07-05-2012 at 11:06 PM.. |
#46
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Argue it all you want, but this is how certain California politicians feel about gun owners and especially the California UOC movement. |
#48
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Concealed carry has become the standard practice because a large group of people have an irrational fear of seeing an "exposed" firearm. If more people were exposed to firearms and didnt harbor their irrational fears, we would be having a completely different conversation. We have the right to BEAR arms, not just conceal them on your person or in your home. |
#49
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+1. These guys were provocative and guess what -- the Leftists, who have the upper hand in this state, were in fact provoked. Provoked to further restrict our gun rights. Nice going, UOC activists.
__________________
Come and Take It! I'm the only hell my momma ever raised ... |
#50
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The gun-grabbers are on a feeding frenzy here in California. What provocation do they need? Did we provoke long arms registration, SB 249, the AWB, HSC, mag limitations and every other restriction upon firearms ownership in this state as well? |
#51
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There would be two options for long guns:
"in a locked container" OR "enclosed in a case that is expressly made for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no part of that firearm exposed." |
#52
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__________________
"I watched a tank get disabled with a can of ravioli, once." - jdberger “We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” ― Winston S. Churchill Last edited by highpowermatch; 07-06-2012 at 6:09 AM.. |
#53
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Absolutely! Buying an AR-15 clone OLL and building it in to a full rifle (featureless or BB) is clearly instigating the anti's and will ruin it for the rest of us.
You don't need an AR clone. Anyone who bought and used (in public!) an AR clone is to blame for the upcoming ban! You clearly did it just to gain attention and to live out your mall ninja fantasies. I own many guns and I don't think you need to have an AR. So I blame all the AR owners in California for this rather than the Leftist politicians who actually wrote and support the bill. |
#54
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Nah, we dont want to do that. It feels better to rub other people's noses in their failures than to produce positive results for gun owners regardless of their beliefs.
__________________
Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#55
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Those of you who still think UOC triggered adverse legislation should note that your liberal neighbors despise guns *no matter where they're located*. A 1911 pistol is offensive to them on your hip,its offensive to them concealed, its offending to them in the trunk of your car, and its offensive to them in your gun safe. The liberal majority won't *feel* safe until all your legally owned guns and ammo are either out of state or dumped into the Pacific Ocean. |
#56
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Just to mention,
I never met at starbucks with any gun. I didn't take one to a political event. All I did was walk to the gun range with a 1950's rifle in a sling, a backpack, and some ammo. That disturbs the legislative power-mongers just as much as the starbucks thing. They really, really want to discourage the very thought of 2nd amendment activities. In addition, they really, really want the next generation to NOT learn about the 2nd amendment. If you can't show a firearm or other weapon in public, and doing so in schools is up to a principal, the only education a non-hunter kid will get about guns is from criminals |
#58
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#59
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And everyone who thinks "the pendulum will swing back" here in CA are deluded. We have a liberal majority in our state government because we have a liberal majority in the population! The libs are there to stay, the weather is just too nice. |
#60
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If you can argue, you can write. Please tell me you'll write a letter or position paper to influence this committee.
Here is a short speech I gave before the last committee. Maybe it will spur some ideas of your own: Quote:
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#61
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If this fight is phrased, by us, as an effort to preserve the right to walk through malls and cities while carrying a rifle, it will lose for sure. Most people are alarmed by rifles in malls - as most of us would be. It is simply outside the norms of current culture. It smells of crazy person or spree shooter.
The pressure points on this are that it unnecessarily bans something that hardly ever happens (mall carry) and more centrally, creates huge problems for hunters and others who are minding their own business. It criminalizes things that shouldn't be. It's expensive. It's pointless. It's unnecessary. Those are the angles. We have to play in the world we have, not the one we might like. Rights are not absolute - not free speech, and not the 2nd amendment either. In the eyes of Mr and Mrs Average, all gun rights advocates look bonkers when some of argue for the right to take ARs to Starbucks. I agree we should have the right, but that's one that shouldn't be exercised. |
#62
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If this fight is phrased, by us, as an effort to preserve the right to walk through malls and cities while carrying a rifle, it will lose for sure. Most people are alarmed by rifles in malls - as most of us would be. It is simply outside the norms of current culture. It smells of crazy person or spree shooter.
The pressure points on this are that it unnecessarily bans something that hardly ever happens (mall carry) and more centrally, creates huge problems for hunters and others who are minding their own business. It criminalizes things that shouldn't be. It's expensive. It's pointless. It's unnecessary. Those are the angles. We have to play in the world we have, not the one we might like. Rights are not absolute - not free speech, and not the 2nd amendment either. In the eyes of Mr and Mrs Average, all gun rights advocates look bonkers when some of argue for the right to take ARs to Starbucks. I agree we should have the right, but that's one that shouldn't be exercised. |
#63
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#64
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Next thing they will ban my spud-gun... oh wait for it.....
Potato Guns Are Illegal in California. Who Knew?
__________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Embarking on a great crusade to stamp out runaway decency in the west. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- |
#66
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Assuming that you're being funny or even sarcastic, then OK - I guess... -or- Assuming that you're serious in this [above] statement, then you are clearly on the other side of all this and you should leave. A.W.D. |
#67
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"to be equipped or furnished with (something)" A.W.D. |
#68
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UOC is a pretty classic example of "picking your battles." I followed the handgun issue and despite the counsel of the legal folks here the UOC crowd pushed foreward and we ended up with a ban. The UOC folks then shifted thier focus to long guns and recieved the same attention and action from lawmakers. If this is an end run to try and change CCW policy good luck and I hope it works out. If it's just hubris, then thanks again for pressing an agenda that benifits few and puts the rights of many on the line.
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#69
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In my CCW class the trainers believed the UOCers were Brady members in disguise. I have to disagree -- the Brady bunch has not been as effective as UOCers in killing our rights.
__________________
"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#70
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Should this law pass, now or later (but it will pass), armed agents of the state will be happy to "get you to stop open carrying your rifle." Then we get to pay to feed and house you as well. Quote:
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__________________
"On bended knee is no way to be free." - Eddie Vedder, "Guaranteed" "Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr dated August 19, 1785 |
#71
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The Brady bunch has not been as effective as OLL owners in killing our rights.
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#73
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You DO NOT needs ANY REASON to exercise a right. That's why it's called a right and not a priviledge. |
#74
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The horse is dead folks, you may stop beating it any time now. Time to grow up, move on.
__________________
"I watched a tank get disabled with a can of ravioli, once." - jdberger “We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” ― Winston S. Churchill |
#75
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Easy to say when you do not live in CA, nor are affected by any of this.
__________________
"On bended knee is no way to be free." - Eddie Vedder, "Guaranteed" "Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr dated August 19, 1785 |
#76
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Ya, this kind of well thought out comment will fall on def ears. This drives me crazy too. This is probably why most the country has given up on California.
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#77
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Did I think UOC was an effective way to protest? No. Do I think many of you who like beating a dead horse are acting like children? Absolutely. You have made your points, over and over and over and over. If someone want's to continue to UOC and you have not persuaded them to stop with your tactful name calling and endless blame game then there is nothing left for you to say that will work eh? Now lets all put on our big boy pants, move on and get back to the topic at hand. I believe the topic is the actual bill, not how you perceive we got to this point. If you wan't to continue to argue over this, how about starting a thread titled "Thanks Again UOC crowd"?
__________________
"I watched a tank get disabled with a can of ravioli, once." - jdberger “We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” ― Winston S. Churchill |
#78
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One of the main issues for disagreement here is how we choose to support the 2A. Example UOC'ers want an in your face approach, openly carrying firearms in public, which is your right to do.
There are others who work for the 2A by going through less direct in your face means (I am part of this group). UOC'er topic causes issues with them due to the "in your face approach that some of them take with firearms." This approach causes unneeded attention and causes some to believe that UOC just reinforces the stereotype that gun owners are all a bunch of mall ninjas waiting for things to pop off so we can use our guns. Through out our Country's history many civil rights group have had issues with one another with how their message is portrayed. ie. MLK vs. Malcolm X, Frederick Douglass vs. Underground railroad etc. In conclusion, this debate will never be settled until CA looks more like Arizona when it comes to 2A.
__________________
I am only here for the milk and cookies |
#79
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Concealed or open I dont really care, I just find it ironic that people would villainize those who choose to carry openly, whereas in past history the situation was reversed. Are we going to start having different 2nd amendment denominations now? |
#80
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FWIW, this thread and the original link is getting bumped to the top of the page. The message is getting out. Here's a suggested reading topic: A history lesson of UOC 1.0 with some of the same characters. (Deja Vu all over again). For a preface, Gene Hoffman eloquently lays out why using handgun UOC as political speech was a bad idea two years ago. Quote:
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__________________
"On bended knee is no way to be free." - Eddie Vedder, "Guaranteed" "Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr dated August 19, 1785 Last edited by Fate; 07-06-2012 at 1:20 PM.. |
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