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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-05-2012, 7:05 AM
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Default Long Gun Ban Bill Hearing Set For August 8th

AB1527, Portantino's long gun carry ban in publlic, is set for a hearing before the Senate appropriations committee for August 8th, 2012.
Whether or not you approve of open carry, or open carriers, this bill becoming law will affect you in the future if it passes. Displaying a longun in public will become a crime.
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2012, 8:06 AM
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Once again, thank you UOCers.

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  #3  
Old 07-05-2012, 8:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Fate View Post
Once again, thank you UOCers.

It seems your blame of UOC'rs is misplaced. In my view, the fault lays solely with Portantino for advancing this legislation for the mere possibility that individuals or groups might UOC rifles in his district, as there has been no long gun open carry activity designed to attract media attention or the consternation of the legislature.

It is thanks to politicians like Portantino, that people fear the prospect of what activity gun owners might take part in and insist on telling others what is or isnt acceptable based on their own irrational fears.
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Old 07-05-2012, 8:50 AM
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They are trying to take every self defense right we have!

Next is the Slingshot, and Pellet rifle...

We need to START OVER... FROM SCRATCH. It's what they are forcing, very soon...
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Old 07-05-2012, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
They are trying to take every self defense right we have!

Next is the Slingshot, and Pellet rifle...

We need to START OVER... FROM SCRATCH. It's what they are forcing, very soon...
No, not next, right now. Regulate and ban Airsoft in Los Angeles http://www.examiner.com/article/cali...-risk-some-say
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Old 07-05-2012, 1:34 PM
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No, not next, right now. Regulate and ban Airsoft in Los Angeles http://www.examiner.com/article/cali...-risk-some-say
o m f g .......
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Old 07-05-2012, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
They are trying to take every self defense right we have!

Next is the Slingshot, and Pellet rifle...

We need to START OVER... FROM SCRATCH. It's what they are forcing, very soon...

Yep. Thats my entire difficulty with "progressives." They dont want to progress, they want to demolish. Then reapportion the crumbs according to THEIR standard.
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
They are trying to take every self defense right we have!

Next is the Slingshot, and Pellet rifle...

We need to START OVER... FROM SCRATCH. It's what they are forcing, very soon...
Already there:

Long Beach Municipal Code section 9.64.020 - Slingshots or catapults.

No person shall use or have in his possession any catapult, slingshot or other device capable of throwing stones, shot or metal slugs. This section shall not apply to amusement games or exhibitions carried on under permit from the city. Any such devices taken from any person unlawfully possessing the same are declared to be nuisances and shall be subject to confiscation and summary destruction under direction of the police department.
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Old 07-05-2012, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
It seems your blame of UOC'rs is misplaced. In my view, the fault lays solely with Portantino for advancing this legislation for the mere possibility that individuals or groups might UOC rifles in his district, as there has been no long gun open carry activity designed to attract media attention or the consternation of the legislature.

It is thanks to politicians like Portantino, that people fear the prospect of what activity gun owners might take part in and insist on telling others what is or isnt acceptable based on their own irrational fears.
I blame the UOCers because they intentionally poked the bear. They were warned multiple times that it was a bad idea, yet they wanted to make a point. A political statement. Well they got the bear to wake up, take notice and kick them to the curb. Then the same guys (most notably Pullnshoot's brother, IIRC) made very public rumblings about doing the same thing with long guns. There was also that one posting videos of himself on YouTube UOCing an AR at In and Out and around Costa Mesa. Portiano jumped at the chance to score political points and nip it in the bud.

Instead of being patient with the carry cases currently working thru the system, the UOC crowd screwed the pooch and left it to others to work to fix the mess.
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2012, 5:35 PM
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Instead of being patient with the carry cases currently working thru the system, the UOC crowd screwed the pooch and left it to others to work to fix the mess.
i agree. While we few firearms advocates know it is our right, we should also be reasonable and exercise our right judiciously—just like free speech doesn't allow you to yell "fire" in a theater. Too many Californians are fearful when they see a group of people walk into a retail store with black rifles and that allowed the politicians an excuse. We wish it wasn't so, but it is. Walking into Starbucks with black rifles is perceived by many as yelling "Fire". If the OC crowd had left the bear alone, we wouldn't have this happening. Do any of you honestly think walking into Starbucks with black rifle helped our cause and convinced people to join us? It had the opposite effect, it lost us allies and will end up further restricting our rights.
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Not wasting any more time and energy tilting, Don Quixote-like, on a regulatory problem that, constitutionally, should not even exist in a free state.
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  #11  
Old 07-05-2012, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Fate View Post
Once again, thank you UOCers.

do you also blame all AR owners for SB 249?
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2012, 11:13 PM
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do you also blame all AR owners for SB 249?
The proper blame for AB249 lies with CBS news, Leeland Yee and the idiots making "mag magnets".

It's not illegal to manufacture "mag magnets" (yet) and it's not illegal to neglect telling your customers that the improper use of their product is a felony but it is really stupid.

It's only mildly illegal to run a gun show video "sting" operation where the rules specify no photography but it is despicable.

It's not illegal to be a total *** after you are elected to the California assembly but Leeland Yee likes to be that way.

All stupid and all a bad idea but it happens.

Do you want to be part of the solution or part of the problem?

UOC first became an issue in CA when it got publicized in the 2008 election campaign (outside of CA). Then groups in CA started doing it very visibly which added fuel to the fire. Now long gun carry may be banned.

If some guy hadn't been on the Obama campaign route with an empty AR15, we might have avoided all of this but Californians who practiced UOC made sure that we got here.

It's impossible to put the geenie back in the bottle but that doesn't mean we can't learn from our mistakes.

Don't rile up the soccer moms, don't talk to the media and don't sell "felony buttons".

If we could do that we would get a lot more time to fight the real battles like LTC issuance problems, "assault weapon" bans and "gun free school zones" (which aren't really gun free).
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2012, 7:29 AM
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do you also blame all AR owners for SB 249?
Absolutely! Buying an AR-15 clone OLL and building it in to a full rifle (featureless or BB) is clearly instigating the anti's and will ruin it for the rest of us.

You don't need an AR clone. Anyone who bought and used (in public!) an AR clone is to blame for the upcoming ban! You clearly did it just to gain attention and to live out your mall ninja fantasies. I own many guns and I don't think you need to have an AR. So I blame all the AR owners in California for this rather than the Leftist politicians who actually wrote and support the bill.
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2012, 12:01 PM
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duplicate, deleted

Last edited by Wiz-of-Awd; 07-06-2012 at 12:02 PM.. Reason: duplicate, deleted
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  #15  
Old 07-06-2012, 12:01 PM
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Absolutely! Buying an AR-15 clone OLL and building it in to a full rifle (featureless or BB) is clearly instigating the anti's and will ruin it for the rest of us.

You don't need an AR clone. Anyone who bought and used (in public!) an AR clone is to blame for the upcoming ban! You clearly did it just to gain attention and to live out your mall ninja fantasies. I own many guns and I don't think you need to have an AR. So I blame all the AR owners in California for this rather than the Leftist politicians who actually wrote and support the bill.
Hhmmm, well...

Assuming that you're being funny or even sarcastic, then OK - I guess...

-or-

Assuming that you're serious in this [above] statement, then you are clearly on the other side of all this and you should leave.

A.W.D.
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  #16  
Old 07-06-2012, 2:43 PM
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do you also blame all AR owners for SB 249?
lol seriously.
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  #17  
Old 07-05-2012, 3:14 PM
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Once again, thank you UOCers.

Gee,thanks for being so insightful and adding value to the conversation. I am sure UOC folks have not heard that point of view yet. Its very healthy for 2A for us to continue pointing fingers at each other.


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  #18  
Old 07-05-2012, 9:36 PM
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Gee,thanks for being so insightful and adding value to the conversation. I am sure UOC folks have not heard that point of view yet. Its very healthy for 2A for us to continue pointing fingers at each other.


It's be healthier if people didn't make a mess of things and then complain when called on it. The UOC crowd f'd up. And in doing so they screwed everyone, not just their own political speech. So yeah, maybe they don't want to hear it anymore. Tough.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:14 PM
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Rather than addressing the different arguments for or against OC'ers, I placed this thread in the hopes people would take the opportunity to practice their 1st amendment rights by petitioning their government. You have the time and opportunity right now. The hearing is over a month away, and the committee members are a helluva lot more influencable than I am at this point. In other words; you have just about zero prospects of getting me to stop open carrying my rifle. But there is a chance you can persuade a committee member or three that this bill is a bridge too far.
I have written a position paper on behalf of Save Our State. Any of you can do the same for whatever organizations you speak for, or just for yourself. You can mail it, e-mail it, or hand carry it into the committee office. The analysis is often based upon the support or opposition letters recieved. You reps, or those committee members don't read each letter you write them, but it is likely they read the analysis. I am urging you all to influence that analysis, and do so soon before it goes to print.

After the legislative remedies are over, whichever way it goes, you are free to berate me, disrespect me, or even attempt kicking my *** over whatever part I played in allegedly causing the bill in the first place. But please, please don't use my actions in that regard as an excuse to avoid taking part in the legislative process in progress right now. That would be a ridiculous, foolish, and losing plan to protect your rights and culture.

As my punishment for allegedly being at the root cause, I will lend my help to anyone who needs it in getting your written word to that committee room. I go to the capitol every week for at least one day. Whatever you need, short of financial aid, (I'm useless for that), I will try my dammedest to accomodate.
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Old 07-06-2012, 7:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola;8879022[B
]Rather than addressing the different arguments for or against OC'ers, I placed this thread in the hopes people would take the opportunity to practice their 1st amendment rights by petitioning their government. You have the time and opportunity right now.[/B] The hearing is over a month away, and the committee members are a helluva lot more influencable than I am at this point. In other words; you have just about zero prospects of getting me to stop open carrying my rifle. But there is a chance you can persuade a committee member or three that this bill is a bridge too far.
I have written a position paper on behalf of Save Our State. Any of you can do the same for whatever organizations you speak for, or just for yourself. You can mail it, e-mail it, or hand carry it into the committee office. The analysis is often based upon the support or opposition letters recieved. You reps, or those committee members don't read each letter you write them, but it is likely they read the analysis. I am urging you all to influence that analysis, and do so soon before it goes to print.

After the legislative remedies are over, whichever way it goes, you are free to berate me, disrespect me, or even attempt kicking my *** over whatever part I played in allegedly causing the bill in the first place. But please, please don't use my actions in that regard as an excuse to avoid taking part in the legislative process in progress right now. That would be a ridiculous, foolish, and losing plan to protect your rights and culture.

As my punishment for allegedly being at the root cause, I will lend my help to anyone who needs it in getting your written word to that committee room. I go to the capitol every week for at least one day. Whatever you need, short of financial aid, (I'm useless for that), I will try my dammedest to accomodate.
It appears that continuing the "I told you so" rant is more important than moving on and dealing with the task at hand.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
Rather than addressing the different arguments for or against OC'ers, I placed this thread in the hopes people would take the opportunity to practice their 1st amendment rights by petitioning their government. You have the time and opportunity right now. The hearing is over a month away, and the committee members are a helluva lot more influencable than I am at this point. In other words; you have just about zero prospects of getting me to stop open carrying my rifle. But there is a chance you can persuade a committee member or three that this bill is a bridge too far.
Ah so you're the one I was thinking of. Way to go buddy. You're the most awesomest activist ever. What was your endgame plan from the start? Is this it?

Should this law pass, now or later (but it will pass), armed agents of the state will be happy to "get you to stop open carrying your rifle." Then we get to pay to feed and house you as well.

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Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
After the legislative remedies are over, whichever way it goes, you are free to berate me, disrespect me, or even attempt kicking my *** over whatever part I played in allegedly causing the bill in the first place. But please, please don't use my actions in that regard as an excuse to avoid taking part in the legislative process in progress right now. That would be a ridiculous, foolish, and losing plan to protect your rights and culture.
Why wait? You're here now. The irony of you telling us what's "ridiculous, foolish or a losing plan to protect our rights and culture" is rich. Yes, this thing needs to be fought, but it's an uphill climb. The problem is, this is a distraction from other battles currently being waged. Are you prepared to fund THIS battle?

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Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
As my punishment for allegedly being at the root cause, I will lend my help to anyone who needs it in getting your written word to that committee room. I go to the capitol every week for at least one day. Whatever you need, short of financial aid, (I'm useless for that), I will try my dammedest to accomodate.
I found my answer. You got nothin' and are worth nothin' in this fight that you have brought to the rest of us. In otherwords, you like to pick fights without the will or means to finish them.
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Old 07-10-2012, 5:19 PM
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Once again, thank you UOCers.

^^^^^^ THIS! ^^^^^^

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Old 07-10-2012, 5:22 PM
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I am completely for open carry... but if open carry like this puts a bad taste in my mouth, I can't say I am surprised if anti2A people REALLY don't like it. Responsible open carry isn't fishing for LEO eff ups. Case in point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdWvL...&feature=inbox
I agree with this. It's long been the opinion of most CA gun organizations with weight that UOC is bad PR, but some peoples children just never learned to listen.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:07 PM
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There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:41 PM
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There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.
Spot On. How can we advance the notion that those with firearms are not dangerous or rabid individuals. All you are doing is scaring soccer moms in Starbucks.

If I saw some guy walk into a Starbucks with an AR 15, I am thinking Spree shooter and I am probably going to take you down. What we need in California is ccw. Firearms should be concealed not carried in the open.
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Old 07-05-2012, 1:30 PM
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Firearms should be concealed not carried in the open.
Why? You know concealed carry used to be frowned upon and seen as the sign of a coward or shady character. Open carry has a lot longer tradition than concealed carry ever will. I guess you favor some other form of greeting as well, instead of a handshake.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:21 PM
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Why? You know concealed carry used to be frowned upon and seen as the sign of a coward or shady character. Open carry has a lot longer tradition than concealed carry ever will. I guess you favor some other form of greeting as well, instead of a handshake.
Open carry is an instant disadvantage when dealing with violent offenders. Take that into consideration when you're contemplating such measures. People want concealed carry for a reason. A majority of the states in the nation, have shall issue license to carry laws, which is contrary to your reasoning.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:47 AM
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Open carry is an instant disadvantage when dealing with violent offenders. Take that into consideration when you're contemplating such measures. People want concealed carry for a reason. A majority of the states in the nation, have shall issue license to carry laws, which is contrary to your reasoning.
If open carry were an instant disadvantage when dealing with violent offenders than why do the police and military carry openly? Seems to me that the few professions which actually deal with violent situations regularly carry openly instead of concealed.

Concealed carry has become the standard practice because a large group of people have an irrational fear of seeing an "exposed" firearm. If more people were exposed to firearms and didnt harbor their irrational fears, we would be having a completely different conversation. We have the right to BEAR arms, not just conceal them on your person or in your home.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:52 PM
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There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.
sure there is, it's called American rights
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Old 07-06-2012, 1:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.
+1. These guys were provocative and guess what -- the Leftists, who have the upper hand in this state, were in fact provoked. Provoked to further restrict our gun rights. Nice going, UOC activists.
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Old 07-06-2012, 1:15 AM
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+1. These guys were provocative and guess what -- the Leftists, who have the upper hand in this state, were in fact provoked. Provoked to further restrict our gun rights. Nice going, UOC activists.

The gun-grabbers are on a feeding frenzy here in California. What provocation do they need?

Did we provoke long arms registration, SB 249, the AWB, HSC, mag limitations and every other restriction upon firearms ownership in this state as well?
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Old 07-06-2012, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.



You DO NOT needs ANY REASON to exercise a right. That's why it's called a right and not a priviledge.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
There was never any good reason to have a bunch of guys with ARs have a "meeting" at Starbucks. It was a deliberate and unnecessary provocation, with no upside, that has led directly to the current and coming open-carry bans.
Ya, and them rich German Jews caused the Holocaust, and those sexy looking dames are responsible for their own rapes!

Get a grip man. The problem is the progressive-statist kabuki in Fresno and the Brady Bunch, not our fellow gun owners who protest their lost rights by exercising their still available rights to make a political point. Granted, that didn't work out to well, but man, the progressives would have gotten around to it anyway, just as they are with rifles, bullet buttons, registrations, etc.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:19 PM
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I have the right to tell BHO to GFH to his face.

How do you suppose that would work out???

Tiberius is spot on.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:31 PM
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so does this now mean locked transportation of long guns?
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Old 07-06-2012, 1:50 AM
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so does this now mean locked transportation of long guns?
There would be two options for long guns:

"in a locked container"

OR

"enclosed in a case that is expressly made for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no part of that firearm exposed."
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:51 PM
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Blaming oc'ers is like blaming chocolate made you fat and of course the famous quote "if guns kill people, a spoon made rosie odonnel fat"
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Old 07-05-2012, 1:32 PM
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Guys Im from Washington state, moving to Kalifornia at the end of the week for work and family. I conceal carry here in WA, and most people I know do aswell. Under no circumstance would i ever open carry, nor have I ever seen anyone besides an LEO do so. WTF are you guys thinking?? hurr durr my rights!!! All your doing is stripping rights away from those of us with some common damn sense.
Not to mention if it ever comes time for a battle of lexington II, youll be arrested before you even take a stand becuase you thought you were a cowboy and it was a good idea to carry your rifle to starbucks for your *&%(* latte frappacino with extra whipcream.

Last edited by Highsaw; 07-05-2012 at 1:48 PM.. Reason: add
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Old 07-05-2012, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ICONIC View Post
Spot On. How can we advance the notion that those with firearms are not dangerous or rabid individuals. All you are doing is scaring soccer moms in Starbucks.
perhaps if people with firearms are not acting dangerous or rabidly, people could deduce that the mere presence of a firearm does not make any of them dangerous or rabid. if this were to become commonplace, perhaps even the soccer moms would learn to not be scared.


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Originally Posted by ICONIC View Post
If I saw some guy walk into a Starbucks with an AR 15, I am thinking Spree shooter and I am probably going to take you down. What we need in California is ccw. Firearms should be concealed not carried in the open.
what we need is constitutional carry, so people can carry any way they like. there's no reason open carry should be illegal -- NONE.


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Originally Posted by Highsaw View Post
Guys Im from Washington state, moving to Kalifornia at the end of the week for work and family. I conceal carry here in WA, and most people I know do aswell. Under no circumstance would i ever open carry, nor have I ever seen anyone besides an LEO do so. WTF are you guys thinking?? hurr durr my rights!!! All your doing is stripping rights away from those of us with some common damn sense.
so ... don't do something which is completely legal (which open carry was at the time) because it might be made illegal? that seems to conflict with the notion of citizens living in a free society. you should run for legislative office once you get here; you'll fit right in.


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Originally Posted by Fate View Post
I blame the UOCers because they intentionally poked the bear. They were warned multiple times that it was a bad idea, yet they wanted to make a point. A political statement. Well they got the bear to wake up, take notice and kick them to the curb.
of course: the fault obviously lies with the citizens who were exercising their constitutional rights, not with the legislators who chose to arrogate those rights. if you apply this line of "reasoning" to the first amendment, reductio ad absurdum takes effect really quickly.
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Last edited by strongpoint; 07-05-2012 at 9:50 PM..
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by strongpoint View Post
what we need is constitutional carry, so people can carry any way they like. there's no reason open carry should be illegal -- NONE.
I agree. We need to be able to carry LOADED and FREELY. Open, concealed doesn't matter. Those cases are working their way thru the system to make that a possibility in CA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strongpoint View Post
of course: the fault obviously lies with the citizens who were exercising their constitutional rights, not with the legislators who chose to arrogate those rights. if you apply this line of "reasoning" to the first amendment, reductio ad absurdum takes effect really quickly.
Oh I blame the legislators for being anti-gun, political hacks too. I just don't believe in the way the majority of the UOC "movement" was conducted. It was designed to provoke a response. It achieved that goal, though the proponents didn't seem to realize that's what was going to happen. Actions have consequences. Some good, some bad. Some unintended. Wisdom is hard earned for those unwilling to listen to the wise before it's playing for keeps.
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