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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 07-10-2018, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I am expecting and/or hoping for a narrow ruling on Hawaii's complete ban on handgun carry which won't produce a decision that the liberals will want to take en banc.
And I'm hoping for a unicorn to bring me supermodels who will feed me grapes while I watch today's World Cup game.

You need to get ready for SCOTUS. No time to be posting on CalGuns. #WorkWorkWork
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  #122  
Old 07-10-2018, 1:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I am expecting and/or hoping for a narrow ruling on Hawaii's complete ban on handgun carry which won't produce a decision that the liberals will want to take en banc.
1) I expect the opinion in Young will not be released in the near or mid-future
2) I expect the opinion in Nichols to be released before the opinion in Young
3) I think the odds of a narrow victory in Young increased slightly as a result of Kennedy's retirement (I'm sad to believe this)
4) I think the odds of a true victory in Young, even on fairly narrow grounds, are low
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  #123  
Old 07-10-2018, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kukuforguns View Post
1) I expect the opinion in Young will not be released in the near or mid-future
2) I expect the opinion in Nichols to be released before the opinion in Young
3) I think the odds of a narrow victory in Young increased slightly as a result of Kennedy's retirement (I'm sad to believe this)
4) I think the odds of a true victory in Young, even on fairly narrow grounds, are low
Nichols was vacated for Young.
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  #124  
Old 07-10-2018, 2:40 PM
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So is this going to be a good case in a good position to go to the new SCOTUS and unlock RKBA rights nationally?
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  #125  
Old 07-10-2018, 2:45 PM
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Nichols was vacated for Young.
Thank you.
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  #126  
Old 07-10-2018, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I've got a little money saved up if I need to draft a cert petition. My plan is to try and take a couple weeks off work and just work on the petition. I worked on one opposition to cert a few years ago and those things take time.

Hopefully the gun rights orgs will file amicus briefs but I doubt it. I am pretty sure none of them want a lone wolf up there at the Supreme Court.
If that happens, ask for help here. I'm happy to help however I can.

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  #127  
Old 07-10-2018, 8:42 PM
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If that happens, ask for help here. I'm happy to help however I can.
Me too. And I really hope the major gun rights orgs will help out on this and everyone can put personal feelings aside and work together. This seems like our best case.
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  #128  
Old 07-14-2018, 9:00 PM
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What exactly is being won?

=8-|
More and more CA sheriffs are being "won" over to our side re. issuing CA CCWs!

More and more CA sheriffs, over the years, have tried liberalizing acceptable GC for their counties and NONE (that I can recall, other than OC for a short while), went back to restrictive issuance. Not only do the vast majority of sheriffs (45 out of 58) readily issue CCWs; not only can residents in the vast majority of the state's territory readily get CCWs, but since SDSO/Gore liberalized issuance last fall, for the first time that I know of, a majority of CA's population (53%) lives in counties where they can readily get CCWs. ETA: For the first time EVER, CA should be about to or has recently passed a total of 100,000 CCWers!

We are winning!

An aside to all: I don't usually check court case threads that are only active because of CGNers debating vs actual movement in the case. If you make a post directed to me and I don't reply a week later (trying to just visit on weekends), just PM a link of your question/comment to me and I'll try to reply.
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  #129  
Old 07-14-2018, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
San Mateo should be dark red.
Rather than taking this Young thread further Off Topic, please PM me to explain why you believe that and what evidence you have to support your belief. Thx!
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  #130  
Old 07-18-2018, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kukuforguns View Post
If that happens, ask for help here. I'm happy to help however I can.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
Me too. And I really hope the major gun rights orgs will help out on this and everyone can put personal feelings aside and work together. This seems like our best case.


I will also chip. PM me when the time comes.
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  #131  
Old 07-19-2018, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
More and more CA sheriffs are being won over to our side re. issuing CA CCWs!

More and more CA sheriffs, over the years, have tried liberalizing acceptable GC for their counties and NONE (that I can recall, other than OC for a short while), went back to restrictive issuance. Not only do the vast majority of sheriffs (45 out of 58) readily issue CCWs; not only can residents in the vast majority of the state's territory readily get CCWs, but since SDSO/Gore liberalized issuance last fall, for the first time that I know of, a majority of CA's population (53%) lives in counties where they can readily get CCWs. ETA: For the first time EVER, CA should be about to or has recently passed a total of 100,000 CCWers!

We are winning!

An aside to all: I don't usually check court case threads that are only active because of CGNers debating vs actual movement in the case. If you make a post directed to me and I don't reply a week later (trying to just visit on weekends), just PM a link of your question/comment to me and I'll try to reply.
So, you take the position that greater access to what is considered or treated as a "privilege" that can be restricted or rescinded at any time "winning"?

=8-/
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  #132  
Old 07-19-2018, 9:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
So, you take the position that greater access to what is considered or treated as a "privilege" that can be restricted or rescinded at any time "winning"?

=8-/
After the last couple years any movement at all that isn't to the left sure feels like winning. It is totally a case of battered "gun owner" syndrome.
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  #133  
Old 07-19-2018, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7se...ature=youtu.be



Starts at 19:40



I think it went well for us, or another way to put it is VERY bad for Hawaii. Their counsel has basically conceded he can't win unless the panel finds the 2A is home bound. Not to mention he has also admitted to ZERO permits issued in 20 years.

Judges were not buying it.



This is an open carry lawsuit BTW.


Next stop the 9th circus that will uphold the ban, but this time a SCOTUS appeal may actually be certed and won if wishy washy Roberts grows a spine.


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  #134  
Old 07-19-2018, 3:06 PM
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The anti's are going to have to weigh this carefully. They will probably loose the 9th, if they appeal they will probably loose the country. We are in a good time.
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  #135  
Old 07-19-2018, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mrrabbit View Post
So, you take the position that greater access to what is considered or treated as a "privilege" that can be restricted or rescinded at any time "winning"?

=8-/
Yes. Don't confuse "winning" with having "won."

Since 1986 more and more states switched to "Shall Issue" for permission slips from the Nanny State to CCW. Similarly, within CA we're gaining territory and getting more CAians issued CCWs. In both cases, we are advancing and the antis are retreating. I don't consider that to be losing or a stalemate. "Shall Issue" permission slips prepared those states for eventually considering ConCarry. No state went directly from "No Issue" or "May Issue" to ConCarry.

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  #136  
Old 07-20-2018, 4:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
Next stop the 9th circus that will uphold the ban, but this time a SCOTUS appeal may actually be certed and won if wishy washy Roberts grows a spine.


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Roberts was not the problem as far as we know. It was Kennedy holding up cert of cases and Roberts did not want to risk losing an important case.
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  #137  
Old 07-20-2018, 8:21 AM
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Roberts was not the problem as far as we know. It was Kennedy holding up cert of cases and Roberts did not want to risk losing an important case.


Roberts has not been as reliable as thought. Remember he was the swing vote to uphold Obama Care as constitutional.


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  #138  
Old 07-24-2018, 8:27 AM
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Great news coming from CA9! Congrats to Wolfwood...

https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost....5&postcount=48
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  #139  
Old 07-24-2018, 8:29 AM
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Looks like the Plaintiffs won at the 9th Circuit 3-judge panel? Congrats to the plaintiffs. Expect the 9th to take the case up en-banc and screw us all like they did for Peruta. Could be a case that's fast-tracked to SCOTUS if we're lucky with Kavanaugh in the bench by then.


U.S. appeals court: Constitution gives right to carry gun in public
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  #140  
Old 07-24-2018, 8:30 AM
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Great job Wolfwood!

And nice to see federal judges calling each other out on judicial malfeasance!
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  #141  
Old 07-24-2018, 8:42 AM
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Can I open carrying in California now??? I'm about to head out the door! ��
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  #142  
Old 07-24-2018, 8:44 AM
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So what effect does this have on the Nichols case?
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  #143  
Old 07-24-2018, 8:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuug View Post
Roberts was not the problem as far as we know. It was Kennedy holding up cert of cases and Roberts did not want to risk losing an important case.
We're not 100% if it was Kennedy or Roberts being a squish on granting cert for 2A cases like Peruta which was denied cert. We know that Gorsuch, Alito, and Thomas are likely gonna vote in our favor because they have all concurred with dissents on cert denials for 2A cases in the recent past, especially Gorsuch and Thomas with Peruta. Read their dissent on denial of cert for Peruta here - "The Court’s decision to deny certiorari in this case reflects a distressing trend: the treatment of the Second Amendment as a disfavored right."

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...6-894_p86b.pdf


We will see if Roberts was the dissenting voice in granting cert if there are any 2A appeals in the docket and they deny cert for any one of them. It takes four votes to grant a case for cert. The conservatives on the bench do not want to take up a case if they feel like they don't have the majority of votes to rule favorably. I personally am not comfortable taking up an AWB case in front of SCOTUS even if Kavanaugh is confirmed, I feel like Roberts would be a squish, like he was on the Obamacare case. To be ultra-safe, best wait until RBG is replaced, but who knows when that will be. I do feel however that once Kavanaugh is confirmed, the time is ripe for a CCW case to finally be resolved in our favor in front of SCOTUS. It's about time.
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  #144  
Old 07-24-2018, 8:54 AM
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The anti's have a really tough choice now, take this loss or appeal and risk loosing the entire country in our new SCOTUS.
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  #145  
Old 07-24-2018, 8:56 AM
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I need wolfwood to explain how this affects us in CA regarding the loaded ban and the CA gun free school zone 1000' bubble...

Are those hurdles still remaining in CA?
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  #146  
Old 07-24-2018, 9:58 AM
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I'll try and type something up later today. I am in NY for work so I am a little busy right now.
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  #147  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:00 AM
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Congratulations to Wolfwood and to Justice O'Scannlain!
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  #148  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I'll try and type something up later today. I am in NY for work so I am a little busy right now.
Thanks again, and congrats!
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  #149  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:01 AM
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I'll try and type something up later today. I am in NY for work so I am a little busy right now.
Nice work!
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  #150  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I'll try and type something up later today. I am in NY for work so I am a little busy right now.
Excellent work and reward for your efforts! Understanding the war is not over, thanks for this victory.
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  #151  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:33 AM
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Good opinion, great work by Wolfwood.

I expect Nichols to be held/stayed until after en banc shenanigans and cert petition by one or both parties.

Don’t open carry based on this decision yet, but maybe order that new gun belt and holster?!
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  #152  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:39 AM
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Default Open carry for all states?

How will this affect those of us behind enemy lines?
https://www.dailywire.com/news/33502...t-hank-berrien
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  #153  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by sfpcservice View Post
I need wolfwood to explain how this affects us in CA regarding the loaded ban and the CA gun free school zone 1000' bubble...

Are those hurdles still remaining in CA?
Wolfwood's victory (WELL DONE!) has no immediate effect on the validity of California's regulatory scheme regarding public carriage of firearms. It applies to HI laws.

Moreover, the 9th Circuit has not actually held that HI's laws are invalidated as that question was not before the 9th Circuit (the 9th Circuit did explain that HI's laws are inconsistent with the 2d Amendment). The Young appeal arose from an order granting the County's motion to dismiss Young's action. The 9th Circuit reversed the trial court's order because the 2d Amendment does protect the right to carry guns in public (the District Court took the contrary view when granting the County's motion to dismiss). This is demonstrated by the second to last sentence of the opinion: "Young has indeed stated a claim that section 134-9’s limitations on the issuance of open carry licenses violate the Second Amendment."

The case will now proceed to the District Court (or it could go en banc) which will likely have to consider a motion for summary judgment by Young. While the opinion is technically limited to the issue of whether Young stated a claim, the 9th Circuit's opinion strongly points the way for the District Court ("REMANDED for further proceedings consistent with this opinion").

Moreover, the 9th Circuit's opinion does not criticize in any fashion a government's right to prohibit carriage of weapons in "sensitive" places. Whether the 1000' bubble around schools is a "sensitive" place is not addressed by the opinion.

In short, Wolfwood and his client have secured an important victory in the battle for open carriage. The war is not over though.
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  #154  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:43 AM
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“The war is not over though.”

True, but the Allies have successfully taken Normandy and the enemy is in retreat.
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  #155  
Old 07-24-2018, 10:54 AM
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Nice job, Alan. Congratulations.
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  #156  
Old 07-24-2018, 11:04 AM
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See the thread literally right above yours: Young V. Hawaii


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Originally Posted by glockmen17 View Post
How will this affect those of us behind enemy lines?
https://www.dailywire.com/news/33502...t-hank-berrien

Last edited by mit31; 07-24-2018 at 1:19 PM..
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  #157  
Old 07-24-2018, 11:10 AM
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Good job Wolfwood!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfpcservice View Post
The anti's have a really tough choice now, take this loss or appeal and risk loosing the entire country in our new SCOTUS.
It's really not a tough choice. They will not appeal, for the same reason DC didn't appeal. Whatever logic DC had for not appealing, we have the same logic here, but more so, with Kennedy's replacement happening in the near term, and RBG possibly leaving the court any time, and now with a solid circuit split on concealed carry.

Will they go for en banc? They might but game theory says that's all risk. I don't think they will.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
Good job Wolfwood!



It's really not a tough choice. They will not appeal, for the same reason DC didn't appeal. Whatever logic DC had for not appealing, we have the same logic here, but more so, with Kennedy's replacement happening in the near term, and RBG possibly leaving the court any time, and now with a solid circuit split on concealed carry.

Will they go for en banc? They might but game theory says that's all risk. I don't think they will.
Great analysis! Here’s hoping!

When should I order some rentention holsters?
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  #159  
Old 07-24-2018, 11:31 AM
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It's very important to note that the majority does not seem to say specifically about a right to open carry, but that generally "the Second Amendment does
protect a right to carry a firearm in public for self-defense."

Hopefully the Kavanaugh nomination scares the 9th circuit from going en banc. I want this to be in place soon so we can sue California and Sheriff Gore again.
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Old 07-24-2018, 11:50 AM
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Anyone have a link to the text that came out of the 9th?

edit: nevermind, its in the mdshooters link
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