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  #81  
Old 02-14-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Stupid management decisions like dropping the H&R Handi-Rifle
Dropping the H&R single-shot shotguns was another marketing error.
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  #82  
Old 02-14-2018, 6:19 PM
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Originally Posted by John Browning View Post
My experience:

1. Internet fanbase says "REMINGTON IS AWESOME!"
2. I spend my own money based on internet saying they are good to go.
3. Remington sends crap product.
4. Remington takes months to refit a stock. Sends back rifle. Rifle still unsafe to shoot.
5. Remington tries again. Fails.
6. Six months after purchase, rifle is finally usable.
7. Document just the facts on the internet.
8. Internet complains, says "REMINGTON IS AWESOME!"
9. Remington goes bankrupt
10. Internet complains, says "REMINGTON IS AWESOME!" and blames bad internet people who describe personal experience.

Did you ever stop to ask yourself why, if nobody agrees with me that Remington now sucks, why they're going under? I wish I could say that it is all my work to bring them down, but alas, I don't think I deserve any credit.

My first gun was a Remington and they made some awesome products up until about 2000. I wouldn't recommend a new Remington to anybody based on my own personal experience using my own money and with no interest or care for what happens to Remington.

Your one example isn't even a drop in the bucket and most who viewed your pictures weren't in agreement with your assessment.
Remington is 200 years old so anything you think you influenced is purely in your head.
The facts don't lie that Remington is the gun of choice for more accuracy minded shooters than all others combined.
We just went through the largest gun buying years in American history and ammo shortages lasted for 5 years. Remington was running around the clock to keep up with demand and demand for outweighed production.
To most when demand is so great it can't be met that is great news for any company. Only a company poorly managed would not survive such a prosperous period.
I read your rant on the centerfire bolt action forum so I doubt you will get any of what was just posted.
Maybe you can do some Google searching about recalls made by Chevrolet and bankruptcy and let us all know how that has affected them today?
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  #83  
Old 02-15-2018, 4:16 AM
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CNBC is now 'suggesting' that the bankruptcy may have to do with avoiding 'legal responsibilities.'

Remington attorney declines to say if bankruptcy would put rifle settlement at risk

Uh, huh.
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  #84  
Old 02-15-2018, 1:56 PM
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http://randywakeman.com/TheLatestCha...aChapter11.htm
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  #85  
Old 02-15-2018, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Your one example isn't even a drop in the bucket and most who viewed your pictures weren't in agreement with your assessment.
Remington is 200 years old so anything you think you influenced is purely in your head.
The facts don't lie that Remington is the gun of choice for more accuracy minded shooters than all others combined.
We just went through the largest gun buying years in American history and ammo shortages lasted for 5 years. Remington was running around the clock to keep up with demand and demand for outweighed production.
To most when demand is so great it can't be met that is great news for any company. Only a company poorly managed would not survive such a prosperous period.
I read your rant on the centerfire bolt action forum so I doubt you will get any of what was just posted.
Maybe you can do some Google searching about recalls made by Chevrolet and bankruptcy and let us all know how that has affected them today?


Thinking that because Chevy emerged OK from Chapter 11 means that Remington will be great fits with your very, very limited ability to make an honest and intellectual assessment. I don't need to do any Google searches, but if you're bored, maybe look up Enron or Lehman Brothers. They also used Chapter 11.

I'm honestly sad for you. You're blindly loyal, and when you're not blindly loyal, your head is in the sand.

Anyway, Remington sucks, the market agrees with me, and that's why they are in bankruptcy.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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  #86  
Old 02-15-2018, 5:42 PM
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I am sure there will still be a Remington Arms company in the future. A name that big will never really go away. Here is to hoping that they get there act together like Savage Arms did and become a better company on the other side of their bankruptcy.
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  #87  
Old 02-16-2018, 5:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Browning View Post
Thinking that because Chevy emerged OK from Chapter 11 means that Remington will be great fits with your very, very limited ability to make an honest and intellectual assessment. I don't need to do any Google searches, but if you're bored, maybe look up Enron or Lehman Brothers. They also used Chapter 11.

I'm honestly sad for you. You're blindly loyal, and when you're not blindly loyal, your head is in the sand.

Anyway, Remington sucks, the market agrees with me, and that's why they are in bankruptcy.

Like I suspected it flew over your head like the space shuttle in that you didn't even remotely see it.
Enjoy your used marlin and good luck in your future mail order purchases as I am positive those dealing with you can't wait.
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  #88  
Old 02-16-2018, 8:35 PM
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Can you say savage, I bought two more last year. Every Savage i have owned has been a great shooter. My friend just bought a savage target rifle in 308 WOW.
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  #89  
Old 02-17-2018, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTABIKER View Post
Can you say savage, I bought two more last year. Every Savage i have owned has been a great shooter. My friend just bought a savage target rifle in 308 WOW.
To those that say general internet feedback does not have an influence, the more I see posts like this from respectable people like NOTABIKER, and there have been more and more lately, the more I've considered buying a Savage, wherein times past I have not, other than for their older guns as collector items, and particularly the Model 99.

So it works both ways.

I've seen a lot of credible posts expressing the quality and accuracy of Savage rifles, just as I've seen as many credible posts exposing the questionable quality and flaws from Remington/Marlin/Bushmaster, etc. Likewise, I consider 'John Browning' equally respectable, knowledgeable, and followed his very fair and warranted thread exhibiting his patience and eventual disgust with his Marlin debacle a considerable flag of caution about Marlin products.

And I really like Remington as a brand; or at least their former selves. I have no shortage of older Remingtons in my stables and I am a proponent of the Model 700. However, I've had no wish to buy anything from them these last several years.

.

Last edited by CALI-gula; 02-17-2018 at 10:42 AM..
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  #90  
Old 02-17-2018, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
And I really like Remington as a brand; or at least their former selves. I have no shortage of older Remingtons in my stables and I am a proponent of the Model 700. However, I've had no wish to buy anything from them these last several years.
I see a lot of Remington 700’s through my shop, mostly for barrel threading to put on a muzzle brake, but I also true and rebarrel a bunch of them.

What I see if the guns from the last 12-15 years when they changed over to CNC machines to make the receivers and cheapened the finish work is that the newer receivers are mechanically better, it cosmetically inferior to older guns.
The complaints you hear about Remington 700 quality are primarily in the finish and have nothing to do with the mechanics.

The mechanics are better on the newer guns.
The finish work is better on the older guns.

If your primary concern is the finish quality, you want an older gun.
If your primary concern is accuracy/mechanics, you want a newer gun.
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  #91  
Old 02-17-2018, 6:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
I see a lot of Remington 700’s through my shop, mostly for barrel threading to put on a muzzle brake, but I also true and rebarrel a bunch of them.

What I see if the guns from the last 12-15 years when they changed over to CNC machines to make the receivers and cheapened the finish work is that the newer receivers are mechanically better, it cosmetically inferior to older guns.
The complaints you hear about Remington 700 quality are primarily in the finish and have nothing to do with the mechanics.

The mechanics are better on the newer guns.
The finish work is better on the older guns.

If your primary concern is the finish quality, you want an older gun.
If your primary concern is accuracy/mechanics, you want a newer gun.
How's the finish on today's high grade Remington 700s?
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  #92  
Old 02-17-2018, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springfield45 View Post
I am sure there will still be a Remington Arms company in the future. A name that big will never really go away. Here is to hoping that they get there act together like Savage Arms did and become a better company on the other side of their bankruptcy.
x2.
agreed
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  #93  
Old 02-17-2018, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
How's the finish on today's high grade Remington 700s?
The bead blasted stainless guns are beautiful.
I don’t see any of the polished/blued ones.
Those tend to be the expensive wood stockd guns that not many people buy.
The vast majority that I see are the cheapest SPS models with sandblasted and black oxided finish.
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  #94  
Old 02-17-2018, 7:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The bead blasted stainless guns are beautiful.
I don’t see any of the polished/blued ones.
Those tend to be the expensive wood stockd guns that not many people buy.
The vast majority that I see are the cheapest SPS models with sandblasted and black oxided finish.
What's wrong with black oxide? Does it wear off fast or something? Seem to be doing fine on my 783 so far, if that's black oxide finish on it.
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  #95  
Old 02-17-2018, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
CNBC is now 'suggesting' that the bankruptcy may have to do with avoiding 'legal responsibilities.'

Remington attorney declines to say if bankruptcy would put rifle settlement at risk

Uh, huh.


Interesting article. Thanks for posting
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  #96  
Old 02-18-2018, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
What I see if the guns from the last 12-15 years when they changed over to CNC machines to make the receivers and cheapened the finish work is that the newer receivers are mechanically better, it cosmetically inferior to older guns.
The complaints you hear about Remington 700 quality are primarily in the finish and have nothing to do with the mechanics.
Good points to add, and being that I know of your expertise, I will take it to heart. It's a very important distinction to be made, as inevitably people will judge a lower quality finish to mean other corners and attention to quality were cut as well.

Remington should take note of that in any case. People will gladly pay more to get the best of both worlds. I would.

.
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  #97  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
What's wrong with black oxide? Does it wear off fast or something? Seem to be doing fine on my 783 so far, if that's black oxide finish on it.
The black oxide is not an issue.
The issue is the elimination of polishing.
They sandblast the raw action and then black oxide it.
The sandblasted surface is rough.
Black oxide does not give any rust prevention.

The rougher surface of sandblasting will hold oil IF you oil it, but many people do not.
Those guns which are not cared for (oiled) will rust easier than the older polished and blued guns when they are also ignored (not oiled).

Bluing does not protect against rust anymore than black oxide, but the smoother polished surfaces of the old blued guns will not hold moisture as easily, so they do not tend to rust as easily.

The net result of the coarse sandblasted finish is that they rust easier because the rough finish will hold moisture easier than a polished finish.
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  #98  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
It's a very important distinction to be made, as inevitably people will judge a lower quality finish to mean other corners and attention to quality were cut as well.
I believe this is very much the case.
You have a few people complaining about the overall quality, but it's really just the finish work they are complaining about.
Then you have a whole BUNCH more people that are not qualified to understand the differences and just parroting that the overall quality is down with no actual understanding of what they are repeating.

The dimensional quality/consistency is actually UP compared to 20 years ago due to manufacturing processes getting better, but when you hold a 20-50-yr old gun in your hands and compare it to a new one, the things you FEEL/SEE are primarily the differences in finish.

Few people are able to separate the feel/look from the mechanics though.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 02-18-2018 at 11:35 AM..
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  #99  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
Remington should take note of that in any case.
People will gladly pay more to get the best of both worlds. I would.
They still sell BDL's and Senderos with nice blued finishes.

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bol.../model-700-bdl
https://www.remington.com/rifles/bol.../model-700-vls
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  #100  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:41 AM
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I bought a 700 AAC-SD this last fall and I love it. But I also just recently watched MAC's videos on the R51 and R1(?) and if that's any indication of the quality of their production, they deserve to go out of business.
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  #101  
Old 02-20-2018, 8:25 PM
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I am not an investor, nor do I relish the demise of any firearms company, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why would a company open itself to being raped by a serial rapist (Cerberus)???

Seems the notoriety of Cerberus is known world wide, so why still allow yourself be under its jaws in the first place? A thug is a thug is a thug. A leopard does not change its spots.
Cerberus is frequently a lender of last resort when nobody else will touch your company. In the short term you might avoid bankruptcy, pay a steep price and maybe recover. Sometimes you just put off the inevitable and file for bankruptcy later after the three headed dog has sucked you dry. Frequently you have to look at the personal greed of upper management to understand why they would take money from Cerberus, where corporate insiders bail out with some return on their investment while the majority of the workers get screwed.
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  #102  
Old 02-21-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
To those that say general internet feedback does not have an influence, the more I see posts like this from respectable people like NOTABIKER, and there have been more and more lately, the more I've considered buying a Savage, wherein times past I have not, other than for their older guns as collector items, and particularly the Model 99.

So it works both ways.

I've seen a lot of credible posts expressing the quality and accuracy of Savage rifles, just as I've seen as many credible posts exposing the questionable quality and flaws from Remington/Marlin/Bushmaster, etc. Likewise, I consider 'John Browning' equally respectable, knowledgeable, and followed his very fair and warranted thread exhibiting his patience and eventual disgust with his Marlin debacle a considerable flag of caution about Marlin products.

And I really like Remington as a brand; or at least their former selves. I have no shortage of older Remingtons in my stables and I am a proponent of the Model 700. However, I've had no wish to buy anything from them these last several years.

.
His rant was only good on the front sight. The rest was a waste of bandwidth as it didn't affect the guns functionality.
This website has all kinds of posters. Some use there equipment frequently and for a purpose. Some just admire there equipment and never use it. Most fall somewhere in the middle.
I use my equipment and a stock that is 1/16 of an inch off on a lever gun is cosmetic and had I sold it I would have refunded his money the first time he opened his mouth and never dealt with him again.
Others here polish there guns 3 times a week and never let dust settles on them. I like buying used guns from them but would never sell anything to them it's just too much hassle.
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  #103  
Old 02-21-2018, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
His rant was only good on the front sight. The rest was a waste of bandwidth as it didn't affect the guns functionality.
This website has all kinds of posters. Some use there equipment frequently and for a purpose. Some just admire there equipment and never use it. Most fall somewhere in the middle.
I use my equipment and a stock that is 1/16 of an inch off on a lever gun is cosmetic and had I sold it I would have refunded his money the first time he opened his mouth and never dealt with him again.
Others here polish there guns 3 times a week and never let dust settles on them. I like buying used guns from them but would never sell anything to them it's just too much hassle.
Bet that bent front sight did not happen at the factory, but the rant about poor fitted stock a butt pad was justified unless the price was lower because of it. Like you say there are a lot of hunters that could care less about the cosmetic issues because they're going to use it and it'll end up scratched and dinged up anyway.
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  #104  
Old 02-21-2018, 2:26 PM
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Doe Remington still make a Mauser 98 action?
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  #105  
Old 02-21-2018, 4:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TMB 1 View Post
Bet that bent front sight did not happen at the factory, but the rant about poor fitted stock a butt pad was justified unless the price was lower because of it. Like you say there are a lot of hunters that could care less about the cosmetic issues because they're going to use it and it'll end up scratched and dinged up anyway.
I don't own any new lever actions but the old Winchesters I own have factory wood with the same fit he showed in his pictures.
They sent him new wood and it fit the same way as the old wood which is no surprise to me and it doesn't affect the functionality.
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  #106  
Old 02-21-2018, 5:21 PM
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Lynn, you are a moron.

The lever they sent me had casting voids you could get a nail in. Also, accuracy in a lever gun depends on the fit the stock to a meaningful degree.

Your shilling and excuses for a company is sad. Remington produces products like you produce opinions.
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  #107  
Old 02-21-2018, 6:34 PM
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I've put more rounds downrange than you have ever seen but I do wish you luck on your next online purchase.
Reading your rant half killed most of the more serious shooters.
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  #108  
Old 02-21-2018, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HUTCH 7.62 View Post
Doe Remington still make a Mauser 98 action?
Last I saw, they were contracting Zastava to make the Remington 798's and 799's, but this was about 10 years ago.
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Last edited by ar15barrels; 02-21-2018 at 11:50 PM..
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  #109  
Old 02-22-2018, 3:36 AM
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They will be purchased by a large investment group, their debt restructured, maybe some product lines either sold off or licensed, but the name will live on under some new entity same as Kodak,
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  #110  
Old 02-22-2018, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
They will be purchased by a large investment group, their debt restructured, maybe some product lines either sold off or licensed, but the name will live on under some new entity same as Kodak,
Yup. Pretty much. Might even have a positive effect on quality if the right company takes over.
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Old 03-01-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Trump getting elected has hurt all firearms sales. Remember the panic buying when O was elected? I'm sure the if H had been elected, the panic buying would have made the post O's election and the post Sandy Hook panics look like nothing. Right now, primers would be bringing +25 cents each, any ammo would be over $1/round, ARs and AK would be +$2500 and single shot .22s and single shot shotguns would be $500 at the minimum. Instead, Trump was elected and the shelves are full.
It hurt everyone - but it bankrupted Remington? No. Ups and downs are a normal part of the business environment. Remington is in trouble because they poured tons of money into developing new pistols that nobody asked for and they had a massive series of recalls to pay for.
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Old 03-02-2018, 8:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
They will be purchased by a large investment group, their debt restructured, maybe some product lines either sold off or licensed, but the name will live on under some new entity same as Kodak,
Maybe Henry will buy them?
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