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  #1  
Old 04-16-2014, 3:46 PM
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Default COE useless due to new DOJ system

Hi Folks. Just ran into a frustrating issue that I want to share with the board.

Today I met up with another calgunner to do a PPT of a C&R handgun. I have a C&R license as well as a COE. As you may know, the law states that having both a C&R and COE will exempt me from the 10 day waiting period for a handgun transfer.

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If the licensee also holds a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from the California DOJ, they are exempt from the 10-day waiting period when buying C&R firearms from a dealer. [PC 12078(t)(1)]
I have in the past used this exemption to purchase handguns and take possession of them the same day.

HOWEVER, the DROS system was completely switched out at the beginning of this year. It appears that there is no way to enter the C&R and COE exemption into the new system.

The store I was at called the DOJ DROS hotline. While they were aware of the C&R + COE exemption, after some research confirmed that the system does not support this exemption.

The seller and I also called several other gun shops in the area. They all confirmed that they have not been able to process this exemption since the new system went online.

ARRRGGGHHH. What use is the COE now?

by the way I posted this originally in the FFL forum because I was at the store and we were trying to figure out how to enter it into the system. This was before the DOJ confirmed that there is no way to do this
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Old 04-16-2014, 3:57 PM
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Sounds like it may be limited to just PPT's on handguns. I've been able to purchase both a C&R handgun and long gun with my FFL/COE without issue within the last month or so.
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Old 04-16-2014, 4:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter View Post
Sounds like it may be limited to just PPT's on handguns. I've been able to purchase both a C&R handgun and long gun with my FFL/COE without issue within the last month or so.
Yes, good clarification. They showed me the screens for a normal store transfer of a C&R, the exemption is there.

It is just missing for the PPT.
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Old 04-17-2014, 5:11 AM
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This is very true. If you are buying a pistol from a shop who owns the pistol your COE with FFL03 will work. If it is on consignment or being done as a PPT the COE is useless. The drop down menu does not support COE with Lic. on PPTs. This has happened twice to me this year already. And I don't believe there is any movement to change this error. The only use I can see with a COE is to be able to have a long gun that is over 50 years delivered to your house.
I dont know who or how this error can be fixed. I feel that this is just another way to stop people or slow down legal gun purchases.
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Old 04-17-2014, 7:47 AM
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I have not use the new system yet but on the old one the 10 day wait period was marked collector and you did not have to state the reason. It was up to the FFL to know the law and ok the exemption.

Last edited by zinfull; 04-17-2014 at 2:38 PM..
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:26 AM
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The new system has a drop down window and it does not give the FFL any selection for COE exemption.
Again no body I know encluding Cal Guns is working on fixing the error. It would be nice to see this error fixed. Just lost another right.
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinemann View Post
The new system has a drop down window and it does not give the FFL any selection for COE exemption.
Again no body I know encluding Cal Guns is working on fixing the error. It would be nice to see this error fixed. Just lost another right.
this is 100% correct. the new system does not have a drop down for COE. Because of there is no way to mark the PPT as exempt using this method, C&R + COE holders are forced to go back to a standard PPT including 10 day wait.

DOJ knows about this issue but they do not appear to be doing anything about it.
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:12 PM
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Hmm...wonder if a nice little lawsuit would prod them toward enabling FFL01 and FFL03 holders to actually follow the law as it is written? Our gun rules here are insanely restrictive and stupid enough, then we get Kamala's goons who won't even follow them?

This seems as if it would not be a very difficult one for the CGF/SAF or CRPA to file on or at least send them a letter of intent if they don't comply, anyone comment from any of these orgs on this?
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Old 04-17-2014, 12:14 PM
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Who needs the law when you can just write the software to do whatever you want?
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Old 04-17-2014, 2:09 PM
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The old system never had a drop down for COE either.
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Old 04-17-2014, 3:19 PM
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There is a drop down window that exempts law enforcement for PPT But there is nothing for COE in the exemption drop down window. Because there is no COE listed the shops won't release the pistol with out the waiting period. For store owned pistols and not a PPT there is a line in the drop down menu listing COE.
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Old 04-17-2014, 3:51 PM
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With out the COE being listed as a exemption in the drop down window shops refuse to release before 10 day waiting period on PPTs. They are worried that DOJ will come down on them.
It's a good question on what value having a COE? I'm not sure if I will renew mine. It serves no value when I go out of state and make a purchase. I've only kept it for in state purchases.
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Old 04-17-2014, 4:26 PM
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More shops screwing their customer base.
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Old 04-17-2014, 4:28 PM
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I can't imagine shops fighting this. PPT is unprofitable, and if you have to wait 10 days you have to go into their shop twice as much, increasing likely-hood of additional purchases.
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Old 04-17-2014, 4:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinemann View Post
With out the COE being listed as a exemption in the drop down window shops refuse to release before 10 day waiting period on PPTs. They are worried that DOJ will come down on them.
It's a good question on what value having a COE? I'm not sure if I will renew mine. It serves no value when I go out of state and make a purchase. I've only kept it for in state purchases.
That's why. When a shop ends up having something you've been looking for and want to take it home same day or if you want to C&C a long gun from a private party.
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Old 04-17-2014, 4:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfull View Post
I have not use the new system yet but on the old one the 10 day wait period was marked collector and you did not have to state the reason. It was up to the FFL to know the law and ok the exemption.
This is a real nuisance to have to go back to the shop to pick up a purchase, and it could be a deal breaker in this state if you were traveling out of town and tried to make a purchase.
In the new system there is now a drop down window for exceptions were there was not in the past. The shops are not going to risk their licence this area.
The two shops that I have had this happen to me were very apologetic and sorry for the inconvenience. But their hands are tied till this gets settled one way or another. Either DOJ adds COE in the exemption drop down, or the new rule is a 10 day wait on PPTs for collector FFLs.
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  #17  
Old 04-17-2014, 10:14 PM
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Thanks for the heads-up on this...what a drag.

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Old 04-18-2014, 8:20 AM
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That's too bad. I can confirm that the COE still works for C&R long guns on consignment...I bought an 1903a3 and a T-38 that were on consignment earlier this year and was able to walk right out the door with them. The LGS did have to call the CADOJ to find the right screen and drop-down menu, but it only took a few minutes to straighten it out.
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Old 04-18-2014, 8:33 AM
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It is a problem for PPTs with pistols. And the question is how to get this fixed so that FFL-03 with COEs can make a purchase with 1 trip?
Does Cal Guns have a interest in fixing this error?
I personally don't know where to start to fix this problem.
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Old 04-19-2014, 6:10 AM
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Cal guns!
How can this issue on PPTs be fixed?
Or is this a dead issue?
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:41 AM
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Wow... Talk about screwed. What would happen if FFL used the exemptions listed and noted the DOJ agent they talked to along with listing the COE in the comments?
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Old 04-19-2014, 10:55 AM
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I went to oc firearms last month and tried to use my 03 + COE so I didn't have to go through the 1 in 30 bs (was planning to buy another gun that same day). The system they were using wouldn't work and I was told I had to activate my COE. Is that right?
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Old 04-19-2014, 11:14 AM
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There is no activation on a COE. You just have to give the shop a copy of your COE showing the experation date.
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Old 04-19-2014, 9:07 PM
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In that case, anyone ever used there 03 and COE at oc firearms?
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Old 04-21-2014, 6:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinemann View Post
This is very true. If you are buying a pistol from a shop who owns the pistol your COE with FFL03 will work. If it is on consignment or being done as a PPT the COE is useless. The drop down menu does not support COE with Lic. on PPTs. This has happened twice to me this year already. And I don't believe there is any movement to change this error. The only use I can see with a COE is to be able to have a long gun that is over 50 years delivered to your house.
I dont know who or how this error can be fixed. I feel that this is just another way to stop people or slow down legal gun purchases.
The 50 year requirement went away 1 January. You can get any C&R long gun sent to you with an 03 FFL and COE.
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Old 05-01-2014, 4:51 PM
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I had the same problem today - bought a C&R handgun from a local seller, and there was no way to select C&R + COE exemption from 10-day wait. So is it a bug in the system or is there a new law?
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Old 05-01-2014, 9:12 PM
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More gun control and hassle for law abiding citizens, masquerading as operational incompetence.
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Old 05-02-2014, 5:02 AM
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Has anyone contacted these so called pro-Second Amendment Republican Rulers in Sacramento, we are told to support, about this issue? Does the NRA know about it, or even care?
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Old 05-02-2014, 5:12 AM
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I don't remember the law changing regarding C.O.E with a FFL-03 on PPT's. And I ran a tread on this topic back in Jan on this hoping Cal Guns people who know the the law would step up and clear the air in this topic. So far none of the legal people from Cal Guns have responded to this topic.
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Old 05-02-2014, 6:17 AM
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Query sent to DOJ. Let's see what they say.
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Old 05-02-2014, 5:04 PM
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This is not the first time the Ca. Govt has effectively removed our rights or outlawed something de facto by an administrative or clerical shortfall. Whether or not it is intentional is beside the point.
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Old 05-02-2014, 6:17 PM
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Jess,
Thank you for sending a inquire to DOJ about this issue. Look forward to what they have to say about the use of COE in Calif.
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Old 05-05-2014, 9:17 AM
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reported the problem to the calgunsfoundation DOJ watch
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Old 05-13-2014, 4:38 PM
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Has anyone received any feedback yet from DOJ in to why you cant use your COE when doing a PPT? Im curious to hear what their reasoning for taking away this use of the COE.
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Old 05-13-2014, 7:59 PM
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I would like to know why all of the money I have donated to the CGF is not being used to sue these clowns who are taking our rights away illegally? Anyone? Add this to the other COE denial up at the top of the forum and you have a state agency that is breaking the law, repeatedly. Who is going to be the Ed Peruta for stopping this from happening?

I don't have the funds or time but somebody has to.
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Old 05-13-2014, 8:50 PM
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I submitted the issue to the CGF DOJ watch, but no response at all.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:26 PM
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Will anyone from the CGF respond to this thread and let us know what the plan of action is? This is ridiculous, we are losing rights just because we are letting these tyrants get away with it. Guess maybe we need to approach the NRA ILA, SAF and CRPA? Anyone else who might help us instigate a lawsuit about what these idiots are doing?
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Old 05-14-2014, 3:20 AM
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Another example of law abiding citizens being hassled by a system that is
slowly eroding our rights. Hope this can be fixed. Pete
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Old 05-14-2014, 4:55 AM
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Quote:
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Another example of law abiding citizens being hassled by a system that is
slowly eroding our rights. Hope this can be fixed. Pete
It's a California thing. And no, overall, it can not be 'fixed'. Something else will pop up to replace it. Get used to it.
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Old 05-14-2014, 6:03 AM
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It cannot be fixed, we play Whack a Mole with the stupid politicians and agencies here but we can Whack this one with a hammer (lawsuit) because it is so flagrantly illegal.
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