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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 08-10-2018, 4:33 AM
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Dude. Do your have any capacity for critical thinking, or do you just parrot CNN?
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  #162  
Old 08-10-2018, 4:34 AM
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Sad thing is that people like Carlos do exist, and many of them vote.
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  #163  
Old 08-10-2018, 9:12 AM
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Sad thing is that people like Carlos do exist, and many of them vote.
The fact that he's supposedly old enough to be able to critically think and yet still can't is horrifying. He admits the woman started a gun rights group, and then says a representative of a gun rights group meeting other representatives of a different gun rights group is somehow suspicious.

Seriously. This guy is just clueless.


BTW Carlos, this is so much nothing the major media outlets arent even bothering to cover it, and you're using wikipedia as source material. My kid knew at 10 years old that wasn't a reliable citation source. Congratulations. A kid who can't even drive yet knows more than you do.
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Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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Dude went full CNN...
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  #164  
Old 08-10-2018, 1:28 PM
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The Trump administration is the most corrupt administration in the history of the US.
That's some funny **** right there.
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  #165  
Old 08-10-2018, 1:45 PM
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What a crock of utter BS the whole of the 'witch hunt' truly is!...........Hellfire, we screw with elections worldwide............and in this peculiar instance there is truly proof of foreign influence..............BRITISH foreign influence in the person of bro Steele!

But I'm biased, being of Irish extraction (mostly), I gotta kinda look at the cross of St. George in the same light a Jew perceives a swastica...



The whole of the matter is just distracting BS.
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  #166  
Old 08-10-2018, 2:20 PM
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Dude. Do your have any capacity for critical thinking, or do you just parrot CNN?
Carlos should apply for a job at CNN, he has the skill sets
Jeff Zucker looks for:















Noble
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  #167  
Old 08-10-2018, 6:54 PM
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What a crock of utter BS the whole of the 'witch hunt' truly is!...........Hellfire, we screw with elections worldwide............and in this peculiar instance there is truly proof of foreign influence..............BRITISH foreign influence in the person of bro Steele!

But I'm biased, being of Irish extraction (mostly), I gotta kinda look at the cross of St. George in the same light a Jew perceives a swastica...



The whole of the matter is just distracting BS.
It is indeed. The worst part though is that this sort of nonsense is the best the libs can come up with.
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  #168  
Old 08-11-2018, 2:05 PM
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Looks like Comrade Clarke left his Bedazzle pins home when he and the NRA leadership went to the homeland to get their orders. Butina’s arm around him is a nice touch. They got played big time.




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  #169  
Old 08-20-2018, 3:03 PM
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So champ here is the difference: Steele was not working for British Intelligence when he produced the report, he was paid for his work first by a right wing website, The Washington Free Beacon, and then by the Clinton Campaign, who no doubt declared it as a campaign expenditure. Maybe you need some critical thinking lessons from Offwidth or njineermike.





One would assume that with your self proclaimed superior critical thinking skills and your uncanny ability to tell truth from falsehood based solely on the source, that one of you, sooner or later, would be capable of posting a comment that was not a childish insult. Alas.

Meanwhile here are some pictures to brighten your day. Yeah, they are ugly but not as ugly as Noble's meme's, most of which do not make sense.

Attachment 732304

Attachment 732305
When you made the assertion that a second hand introduction of someone in a gun rights organization was tantamount to treason, you stopped warranting anything remotely akin to considering you smart. At this point you're comic relief at best. This isn't even trump derangement, it's just plain old deranged. Citing wikipedia was a hoot. You sure you're not Pierre Salinger?


BTW, that wasn't an insult. Calling you stupid or deranged is a compliment. Tell your nurse she shouldn't allow you to post while senile.
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Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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Dude went full CNN...

Last edited by njineermike; 08-20-2018 at 3:12 PM..
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  #170  
Old 08-20-2018, 3:07 PM
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Looks like Comrade Clarke left his Bedazzle pins home when he and the NRA leadership went to the homeland to get their orders. Butina’s arm around him is a nice touch. They got played big time.

OMG, that proves everything.


Seriously, just how dumb are you conspiracy theorists are?
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  #171  
Old 08-20-2018, 4:30 PM
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I appreciate your sharing your perspective in a respectful and clear way. While we disagree on several key points, I do dislike most "news" networks, though I prefer not to throw the baby out with the bath water, and rather to read between the lines. I am neither Democrat nor Republican, but I respect some people in both camps. We also agree that Hillary was not a good choice for president. One thing that really irritates me is that there doesn't seem to be an option for a party that supports human dignity and also the right to defend that dignity with the Second Amendment. It's either "I like guns and screw poor people and scientific data" or "I like big government and screw your ability to defend your rights". Where's the actual party that's working for the interests of the People? Then we have the NRA which is frankly in the pockets of the firearms lobby (more concerned with feeding fear to increase sales), and doesn't do a whole lot in terms of public education and actual outreach anymore. Where's the middle ground? And they back the party that gives handouts to the people at the top who don't need them, instead of small business owners. I'm tired of this broken system.


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So, you think that the party that supports gun rights doesn't care about poor people.

That's laughable on so many fronts.

You think the dems throwing poor people a bone with benefits (not their money) helps them in the long run. Because its been one hell of a long run and they are still on the plantation.
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  #172  
Old 08-20-2018, 4:57 PM
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So, you think that the party that supports gun rights doesn't care about poor people.



That's laughable on so many fronts.



You think the dems throwing poor people a bone with benefits (not their money) helps them in the long run. Because its been one hell of a long run and they are still on the plantation.


Actually that pretty accurately sums up my experience with Republican party members. Anyone who's poor is lazy, and anyone who accepts help is a moocher. Anyone who owns a corporation, no matter how exploitative, is a job creator, even if they cannibalize small businesses and then underpay employees. Anyone who argues against corporate mistreatment of skilled laborers is a communist, and anyone who thinks we could do better to spend money on our own infrastructure instead of corporate profiteering on war is a militarily hating traitor, and anyone who wants the government to keep religiously affiliated morality out of politics is un-American. And I'm tired of it. I know that's not everyone. But I'm tired of people towing the party line instead of looking out for less fortunate Americans.


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Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....
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  #173  
Old 08-20-2018, 5:50 PM
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Actually that pretty accurately sums up my experience with Republican party members. Anyone who's poor is lazy, and anyone who accepts help is a moocher. Anyone who owns a corporation, no matter how exploitative, is a job creator, even if they cannibalize small businesses and then underpay employees. Anyone who argues against corporate mistreatment of skilled laborers is a communist, and anyone who thinks we could do better to spend money on our own infrastructure instead of corporate profiteering on war is a militarily hating traitor, and anyone who wants the government to keep religiously affiliated morality out of politics is un-American. And I'm tired of it. I know that's not everyone. But I'm tired of people towing the party line instead of looking out for less fortunate Americans.


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No, its not everyone. It's a cherry picked mess. Both sides are guilty of this type of stereotyping, and it's why this country is so divided.
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  #174  
Old 08-20-2018, 5:52 PM
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No, its not everyone. It's a cherry picked mess. Both sides are guilty of this type of stereotyping, and it's why this country is so divided.


Agreed. But this is my experience, even in these forums.


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Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
Legislator "logic":
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Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....
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  #175  
Old 08-21-2018, 9:57 AM
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Actually that pretty accurately sums up my experience with Republican party members. Anyone who's poor is lazy, and anyone who accepts help is a moocher. Anyone who owns a corporation, no matter how exploitative, is a job creator, even if they cannibalize small businesses and then underpay employees. Anyone who argues against corporate mistreatment of skilled laborers is a communist, and anyone who thinks we could do better to spend money on our own infrastructure instead of corporate profiteering on war is a militarily hating traitor, and anyone who wants the government to keep religiously affiliated morality out of politics is un-American. And I'm tired of it. I know that's not everyone. But I'm tired of people towing the party line instead of looking out for less fortunate Americans.
Good assessment of many conservatives. But as an independent, I see most of the Dems portray anyone who is poor as a victim; anyone who lives off of government subsidies is deserving; anyone who owns a profitable corporation succeeded on the backs of the poor; any employer who pays minimum wage is greedy; labor unions should direct the course of a company rather than the people who own the company; we should raise taxes for infrastructure - but its fine to spend the money "fighting" global warming instead; war and military spending is unacceptable - unless their president does it; religion is bad - even though religious organizations do the majority of the actual work helping the poor; religious morality should be kept out of government - but acceptance of alternative lifestyles should be forced upon everyone; we must protect the 1st amendment - unless they find something offensive; overpopulation is one of our biggest problems, but opening up the border to millions of immigrants is fine; the 2nd amendment is outdated; any election they don't win is illegitimate, but winning elections by conveniently "finding" trunks full of ballots is legitimate; the FBI/CIA/DEA/BATF are oppressive tools of the government - unless they are used on Republicans; disagreeing with a Democrat means you are a racist, sexists, or homophobic; FOX news is one-sided, but CNN is totally neutral; people shouldn't resort to violence, but its fine that violence takes place every time a group of democrats protest anything; The government needs to protect us from ourselves.

As an independent libertarian-leaning atheist, I know that both sides are the enemy. Our only hope is to maintain the separation of powers and keep constitutionalist judges (rather than activists) in the courts.

I must also admit the the Democrat party is farther removed from constitutional principles than the Republican party. You would have to be blind not to see that.
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  #176  
Old 08-28-2018, 5:06 AM
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Originally Posted by desert dog View Post
Good assessment of many conservatives. But as an independent, I see most of the Dems portray anyone who is poor as a victim; anyone who lives off of government subsidies is deserving; anyone who owns a profitable corporation succeeded on the backs of the poor; any employer who pays minimum wage is greedy; labor unions should direct the course of a company rather than the people who own the company; we should raise taxes for infrastructure - but its fine to spend the money "fighting" global warming instead; war and military spending is unacceptable - unless their president does it; religion is bad - even though religious organizations do the majority of the actual work helping the poor; religious morality should be kept out of government - but acceptance of alternative lifestyles should be forced upon everyone; we must protect the 1st amendment - unless they find something offensive; overpopulation is one of our biggest problems, but opening up the border to millions of immigrants is fine; the 2nd amendment is outdated; any election they don't win is illegitimate, but winning elections by conveniently "finding" trunks full of ballots is legitimate; the FBI/CIA/DEA/BATF are oppressive tools of the government - unless they are used on Republicans; disagreeing with a Democrat means you are a racist, sexists, or homophobic; FOX news is one-sided, but CNN is totally neutral; people shouldn't resort to violence, but its fine that violence takes place every time a group of democrats protest anything; The government needs to protect us from ourselves.

As an independent libertarian-leaning atheist, I know that both sides are the enemy. Our only hope is to maintain the separation of powers and keep constitutionalist judges (rather than activists) in the courts.

I must also admit the the Democrat party is farther removed from constitutional principles than the Republican party. You would have to be blind not to see that.
I am wondering how that "independent libertarian -leaning atheist " is working out for you in California?
While free state republicans are influencing primary candidates, winning elections to further gun rights,securing the blessings of liberty and prosperity,Californians are stuck with propagandized losers who either vote democrat or waste their votes on unelectable 3rd party screwballs !

The fact you consider both sides the enemy sort of proves liberty and gun rights are not high on your list of priorities.

Please tell us what portions of the GOP platform you disagree with considering you just posted everything we republicans know to be true !

In all my life I never seen such nonsense as the NRA being accused of being involved with Russianians to elect President Trump!
I think its time for public televised hearing s on this and when those charges are aired in an open forum the next step are lawsuits for slander, libel or whatever will cause the most financial penalty for this FAKE senate/swamp/democrat attempt to overthrow and overturn the 2016 Presidential election.
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  #177  
Old 09-11-2018, 10:07 AM
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Really. You still grasping at this straw? But why?
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  #178  
Old 09-11-2018, 11:20 AM
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Really. You still grasping at this straw? But why?
Have you not seen his posts?
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When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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Dude went full CNN...
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  #179  
Old 09-11-2018, 5:25 PM
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Really. You still grasping at this straw? But why?
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Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
Have you not seen his posts?

Carlos desperately wants a Big Nothing Burger to somehow magically
convert into a Sumptuous, Over Flowing Buffet of NRA Malfeasance.

Carlos is a text book example of a Ideologue, about as helpful to 2A
Rights as Mike “The Gun Guy” Weisser...


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  #180  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:22 PM
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LOL sure the NRA has been subverted by the Russians.

Just called and gave the NRA some money..
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  #181  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:42 PM
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Good to see the "family values" party is now embracing "minor" corruption in both NGOs and government.


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Gun owners need to be the new illegals - undocumented firearm possessors if you will.
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Before long, the Feds via A.D.A. will probably require manufacturers to include Braille markings to accommodate blind shooters.....
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  #182  
Old 09-13-2018, 2:36 PM
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Good to see the "family values" party is now embracing "minor" corruption in both NGOs and government.
There is no corruption. Just bull**** smear campaign.
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  #183  
Old 12-10-2018, 3:27 PM
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And Butina is going to cop a plea! https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.c16f2596f201

Could be bad news for Republican operative Paul Erickson and the NRA.

Do you think it was a coincidence that Trump called on Butina at a presser in July of 2015 and she asked him about sanctions?
You should be proud of her, she was representing Russian communist just like you are.
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Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #184  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:09 PM
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Yeah, I attended some John Birch Society Meetings in the early 60s. They told me that the Commies were going to take over the US without firing a shot. Who would have known it was in 2016 with the aid and full cooperation of the Republican Party.

By the way Buzzfeed is reporting Butina is entering into a full co-operation agreement with the Feds. Could be some nervous people at NRA Headquarters.
Why would they be nervous?
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Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #185  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:23 PM
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Yeah, I attended some John Birch Society Meetings in the early 60s. They told me that the Commies were going to take over the US without firing a shot. Who would have known it was in 2016 with the aid and full cooperation of the Republican Party.

By the way Buzzfeed is reporting Butina is entering into a full co-operation agreement with the Feds. Could be some nervous people at NRA Headquarters.
Maybe you should be more concerned about your support of communist anarchist being displayed on this forum and your labeling of, and support of, violence against those with a different political view.
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Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 12-11-2018 at 1:55 PM..
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  #186  
Old 12-11-2018, 1:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
Yeah, I attended some John Birch Society Meetings in the early 60s. They told me that the Commies were going to take over the US without firing a shot. Who would have known it was in 2016 with the aid and full cooperation of the Republican Party.

By the way Buzzfeed is reporting Butina is entering into a full co-operation agreement with the Feds. Could be some nervous people at NRA Headquarters.
You appear to have no grasp on reality. The demonrat party is rife with communists and socialists.

Soory the truth hurts so bad, to quote you.
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  #187  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:45 AM
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Republican lobbyist and Maria Butina paramour Paul Erickson wrote in an October 2016 email to an acquaintance that was later obtained by the FBI, “I’ve been involved in securing a VERY private line of communication between the Kremlin and key [unnamed political party] leaders through, of all conduits, the [unnamed gun-rights organization].’

“And during an FBI raid of Erickson’s South Dakota home, investigators discovered a handwritten note suggesting Erickson may have been aware of a possible job offer from Russian intelligence services: ‘How to respond to FSB offer of employment?’ Erickson scratched, an apparent reference to the Russian equivalent of the CIA.”

I'll let you boys guess who the "unnamed political party" and the "unnamed gun rights organization" are. Let me know if you need some hints.
I bet Kavanaugh was involved in this somehow so was Trump. This is the thing that is going to take them down.
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Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #188  
Old 12-12-2018, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
And Butina is going to cop a plea! https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.c16f2596f201

Could be bad news for Republican operative Paul Erickson and the NRA.

Do you think it was a coincidence that Trump called on Butina at a presser in July of 2015 and she asked him about sanctions?
So my sense is, the “collusion” wet dream didnt pan out. Now the Russians, who were always darlings of the left until big bad Trump showed up, were trying to infiltrate, hmm? If there was collusion, there wouldnt be a need for honeypots and subterfuge.

Is it too much to ask that you people who have decided to hate trump far more than you love the country pick a story and stick with it?
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  #189  
Old 12-12-2018, 7:42 PM
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Is it too much to ask that you people who have decided to hate trump far more than you love the country pick a story and stick with it?
The answer seems to be: "yes"
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  #190  
Old 12-13-2018, 9:05 AM
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Annnnnd Butina pleads guilty and agrees to spill the beans:
Dang, Kavanaugh and Trump are in trouble now.
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Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #191  
Old 12-13-2018, 9:26 AM
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I can see it now..

A few years from now after memories have faded and attentions have turned to more daily matters, 2 planes will meet once again in Vienna and exchange their cargoes. Among them, Maria Butina will head back to Domo to a drabber, more uncertain fate. Maybe she will marry Edward Snowden.
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  #192  
Old 12-13-2018, 10:31 AM
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Annnnnd Butina pleads guilty and agrees to spill the beans:

Pleads guiltily to conspiracy against the United States, to be exact.



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  #193  
Old 12-13-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RozaShanina View Post
Annnnnd Butina pleads guilty and agrees to spill the beans:
Did you read it? She is pleading guilty to conspiring to infiltrate US organizations for Russia. Not WITH US organizations, rather, trying to do something TO those organizations. For Russia.

Not exactly what the mouth breathing nevertrumpers promised, is it?
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  #194  
Old 12-13-2018, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
Did you read it? She is pleading guilty to comapiring to infiltrate US organizations for Russia. Not WITH US organizations, rather, trying to do something TO those organizations. For Russia.



Not exactly what the mouth breathing nevertrumpers promised, is it?

Yup, exactly. For the purpose of doing harm to the U.S.


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Old 12-13-2018, 12:12 PM
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Did you read it? She is pleading guilty to comapiring to infiltrate US organizations for Russia. Not WITH US organizations, rather, trying to do something TO those organizations. For Russia.

Not exactly what the mouth breathing nevertrumpers promised, is it?
How dare you use facts and logic against the irrational claims of a radical communist intent on trolling a gun forum.
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Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #196  
Old 12-13-2018, 2:18 PM
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Unless you are with Pastor Whacko here and believe it is a giant conspiracy by the Democrats, Russia and the News Media to take down good, honest, god fearing Muricans:

Wow, you found a kindred spirit on the exact opposite side of the spectrum from you.
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Weiner is in jail for doing much less than Kavanaugh or your Dear Leader Trump have done and they are walking around free.
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Anything to protect Cheeto. Even though he just signed basically a gun confiscation order.
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  #197  
Old 12-14-2018, 10:51 AM
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She is pleading guilty in exchange for cooperation. There is no reason to simply plead guilty to the charge she accepted if that is all they had. In that case, she would have fought it in court and then if she lost, she lost.

No, this guilty plea goes like this: I will plead guilty to this one small charge, and in exchange, I'm going to tell you everything..

A lot of people say the NRA got duped. I doubt it. I think they knew exactly what was going on. That's why the guilty PLEA, in EXCHANGE for information from her.

This is far from over.

How are some of you thinking she plead guilty and this is done? what delusional world are you living in?
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  #198  
Old 12-14-2018, 2:47 PM
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Funny, I would ask you the same question. If her cooperation led to the magical super secret collusion you are alluding to, they would have waited to announce her cooperation and plea until after they had bagged the other guilty parties.

"That's why the guilty PLEA, in EXCHANGE for information from her." YES... exchange fro information on which RUSSIANS put her up to this.

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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
She is pleading guilty in exchange for cooperation. There is no reason to simply plead guilty to the charge she accepted if that is all they had. In that case, she would have fought it in court and then if she lost, she lost.

No, this guilty plea goes like this: I will plead guilty to this one small charge, and in exchange, I'm going to tell you everything..

A lot of people say the NRA got duped. I doubt it. I think they knew exactly what was going on. That's why the guilty PLEA, in EXCHANGE for information from her.

This is far from over.

How are some of you thinking she plead guilty and this is done? what delusional world are you living in?

Last edited by mit31; 12-14-2018 at 2:55 PM..
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  #199  
Old 12-14-2018, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Freedom2a View Post
She is pleading guilty in exchange for cooperation. There is no reason to simply plead guilty to the charge she accepted if that is all they had. In that case, she would have fought it in court and then if she lost, she lost.

No, this guilty plea goes like this: I will plead guilty to this one small charge, and in exchange, I'm going to tell you everything..

A lot of people say the NRA got duped. I doubt it. I think they knew exactly what was going on. That's why the guilty PLEA, in EXCHANGE for information from her.

This is far from over.

How are some of you thinking she plead guilty and this is done? what delusional world are you living in?
No, they plead guilty for many reasons, including lesser sentences in exchange for not having to spend the money to prosecute.

Wishful thinking on your part. There is EVERY reason to plead guilty instead of facing additional charges or a max sentence. They mayve offered to expel her, read, send her HOME, but threatened to imprison her here if she didnt take the plea.

You have no idea what they have on her or what she knows.

Also, if it was NOT infiltration, but, rather, collusion, as you appear to hope, the plea will be rejected by any court. If she didnt conspire with Russians to infiltrate, but instead conspired with nra and americans to collude, her plea is a lie.

Sorry.
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  #200  
Old 12-14-2018, 4:04 PM
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Her plea offer and statement of offense: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-co...utina-Plea.pdf
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