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#1
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A bit slow at calling the cops
UPDATE: 16 year old male identified as a suspect in a residential burglary
DATE/TIME: Saturday, July 14, 2018 - 6:13 pm INCIDENT: Assault with a Deadly Weapon LOCATION: Unknown SUSPECTS: Confidential - black male juvenile 16 years of age a resident of Desert Hot Springs; Confidential white male adult 69 years of age a resident of Yucaipa SUMMARY: ***** UPDATE ***** Following up on this shooting investigation, detectives learned that the 16-year-old juvenile was dropped off at the 7-11 location by two black males and an unknown female, who were driving a Ford Mustang GT. Just prior to the shooting, the three male suspects attempted to burglarize a residence in 33000 block of Wallace Way in the City of Yucaipa. As they attempted to force entry into the home through a backyard window, they were confronted by the 69-year-old homeowner. The suspects attempted to flee from the residence. As they did, the homeowner armed himself with a handgun and fired one round at the suspects, striking the 16-year male suspect. The homeowner reported the attempted burglary approx. 30 minutes after it occurred but failed to report that he fired his weapon at the suspects. I want to see how this one plays out . |
#5
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#6
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Yikes!
From my CCW class, always give the least amount of information as possible whenever a firearm is involved. In any situation it is better to be detained or even arrested than to give a statement.
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#7
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#8
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Simply put: by leaving stuff out you damage your credibility and it looks like you think you're guilty of something.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#10
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He should of called 911 ASAP, but fear, stress, getting your head right can delay the process.
He doesn't have to say he shot anyone, just say shots have been fired. When the 911 recording is played back in court, him requesting an ambulance for the shot bad guy would make him look good with the jury. He could also claim he tried first aid on the shot bad guy, which is why there was a delay in calling 911.
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"I saved your life, AND brought you pizza" -- Me |
#11
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How ironic, I just reading thread Captain Save a Woman, and then see this.
You never know, there could have been something illegal / or that had to be destroyed. It may have been a random or targeted. I feel bad for 16 year old, but that's the risk one takes when they try living the street life. |
#12
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Not me. Not at all.
Last edited by God Bless America; 07-19-2018 at 12:04 PM.. |
#13
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Also leaving things out is different than refusing to answer a question. |
#14
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A lot depends on situation and purpose. So, for example, someone who is a mere witness (not a person of interest) might at times be compelled to answer questions or provide information pursuant to a subpoena, or things pursuant to a search warrant. And in the context of the subject being discussed in this thread, i. e., the homeowner's failure to disclose when reporting an incident, that he fired shots, that is (1) misleading; and (2) not useful. You're assuming that without a specific statute one's conduct doesn't have legal significance. But as I outlined, conduct can be used in evidence and therefore affect the outcome of a legal proceeding in which you are the subject. So, for example, if the DA chooses to charge the homeowner with assault, the DA could comment to a jury that the jury should consider the homeowner's failure to disclose, when he reported the incident, that he fired his gun as evidence of guilt, i. e., knowledge that under the circumstances any threat had passed and thus he was justified in using lethal force. Quote:
Do you in fact know what the Fifth Amendment actually says. Well here it is (emphasis added): That does not describe a broad right to not say anything to the police. And Salinas, outlined in post 5, helps illustrate one way in which that Fifth Amendment is limited. So in Salinas, under the circumstances of that case, i. e., a non-custodial interview in which Salinas had not formally claimed Fifth Amendment protection, Salinas could not assert a Fifth Amendment right to prevent the prosecutor from commenting on Salinas' conduct during that interview, viz., a failure to answer a particular question, and to suggest to the jury that Salinas' conduct in that regard could be considered evidence of guilt. What would matter is whether Fifth Amendment protections would apply. If they do not, conduct generally would be fair game for comment by a prosecutor, and that could include a failure to answer a question, making a statement that's untrue, leaving information out or a statement, etc. See the cases cited in post 5.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#15
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Help me understand.
Assuming it was a "good shoot", why is the shooter in court, and why the grand jury stuff? If you're talking civil suit, 2 things... You can and may be sued for anything...which is why you carry liability insurance and have an attorney. To my knowledge, grand juries function in criminal, not civil, matters. Correct?
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True wealth is time. Time to enjoy life. Life's journey is not to arrive safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "holy schit...what a ride"!! Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. Mark Twain A man's soul can be judged by the way he treats his dog. Charles Doran |
#16
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#17
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Which law requires anybody to speak with the police?
As originally asked: What law did he break by not telling them he fired a weapon? Cite that law. No more walls of text. Just cite that law. Cite now, or forever hold your peace. Last edited by God Bless America; 07-19-2018 at 3:31 PM.. |
#19
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Stay classy, CGF and Calguns. |
#20
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All sorts of things will factor into the making of those decisions -- including things you said, or didn't say, or left out of your statements, or inconsistencies in different statements made at different times, or other things you did or didn't do after the incident. And looking at the OP, it can't be assumed that the homeowner here is out of the woods. Of course, this happened only a few days ago, so we don't have all the information. But it looks like the guy shot at a couple of bad guys who were running away. That's not the sort of fact that will be likely to help the powers that be conclude this was a good shoot. And his failure to mention that he fired could lead to the inference that he knew he was in the wrong to have done so and tried to cover it up/ Quote:
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But the role of a civil grand jury is to investigate and report on the operations of county and local government entities. So they're irrelevant to this discussion Don't tell me how to respond. If I choose to answer one of your questions I will answer in a manner I decide is appropriate and is accurate. And don't tell me to "hold my peace." As long as I'm a member here I will post as I see fit -- subject only to the rules of this board. Quote:
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It's often not a matter of violating a statute. It's often a matter of certain acts or omissions in certain contexts are likely to have adverse legal consequences. And things you say or don't say, or things you do or don't do, can sometimes be used against you.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#21
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I didn’t ask if he could be held I contempt of court, I didn’t ask if he had to respond to a subpoena, testify before a grand jury, etc.
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Stay classy, CGF and Calguns. |
#23
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#24
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Integrity is paramount to a lawyer's reputation, and integrity requires answering a question honestly, even if it is unpleasant or embarrassing to do so. I don't know if he is really unable to understand that he is not answering the question, i.e., poor reading comprehension, or if he is refusing to for some other reason, but either way I predict another irrelevant wall of text in an effort to distract. He certainly will not give the short answer. |
#25
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Stay classy, CGF and Calguns. |
#26
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How would you know? You're certainly no kind of a lawyer.
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In effect, the questions asked are meaningless, or rather assume a reality that doesn't exist. Whether or not the homeowner broke some law by not reporting at the time he reported the incident that he fired a shot assumes that's what matters. But it's not. What matters, in the context of legal process is that the omission can have adverse legal consequence to the homeowner (and I've explained how). Whether or not the homeowner committed a crime by firing simply can't be answered with the limited information available. On it's face it's always at least an assault to fire a gun at someone, and apparently the homeowner hit someone. That's prima facie aggravated assault. But the important question is whether the homeowner can show justification and thus avoid criminal liability. That's likely to be a tough sell since the guys were running away. But there might be information we don't now have which could turn that around.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#27
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'Just whose side are you on? Enough of your bull****. We have a right to remain silent. I didn't serve 22 years in the military to throw away my rights because some old guy on calguns cites stuff contrary to my constitutional rights. If this thug didn't try to illegally break into an elderly man's home he never would have been shot. Don't end up making the homeowner the bad guy in this - he was just protecting his life/home. Just like you liberals bend over backwards for ILLEGAL aliens - they never should be in the country to begin with so spare me the crocodile tears for separating children from them - it's their own damn fault just like it's the burglars fault for committing this crime. It was his bad luck a homeowner was armed to defend said property and his life.
Last edited by bronco75a; 07-19-2018 at 7:34 PM.. |
#28
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The question was (and still remains) as presented in post #3: What law did the OP break by not telling the police he fired a weapon? But fiddletown will not give a straight answer - because there is no such law, and he will not admit that. I suspect he is embarrassed to do so at this point. And thx bronco for defending our rights! Last edited by God Bless America; 07-19-2018 at 9:06 PM.. |
#29
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And I'm on the side of those who would like to understand the law as it actually is. How the law actually works is important because in the real world that's how things will be decided. Those who, as many here, fixate on how they would like things to be could be in for a big surprise if they find themselve entangled in the legal system. Quote:
Accept if or not, your choice. Learn or remain ignorant, again your choice. It doesn't matter to me.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#30
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As an investigating officer, failure to mention shots fired would immediately raise a bunch of red flags. That would immediately bring suspicion on the shooter. If the suspect was running away, that seriously complicates matters and could lead to criminal charges. If the homeowner was upfront and honest, I could easily ask certain questions that could mitigate the situation some. I’d NEVER falsify anything in a report, but the right questions could show that there wasn’t criminal intent by the shooter. Lie to me, and he’s got nothing coming. Waiting 30 minutes to call and report the incident is a problem, but could be explained depending on the circumstances.
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#31
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I was in a class a few years ago about what to do after a self-defense shooting. They recommended giving a brief statement of facts to the police. I.e. there was an intruder in my house, I feared for my life, I fired at the intruder, and they fled out the back door. Without a lawyer, I don't think I would feel comfortable saying much more than that, but at least you are being up front about what happened.
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#32
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You'll probably need to make a more detailed statement later on. By then you should have gotten yourself a lawyer, and you can let him do the talking. Also, several years ago a lawyer by the name of Lisa Steele wrote an excellent article for lawyers on defending a self defense case. The article was entitled "Defending a Self Defense Case" and was published in the March, 2007, edition of the journal of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, The Champion. It was republished in four parts, with permission, on the website, Truth About Guns. The article as republished can be read here: Part 1; Part 2; Part 3; and Part 4. As Ms. Steele explains the unique character of a self defense case in Part 1:
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#33
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A lie starts things off on the wrong foot and could end badly.
__________________
LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor |
#34
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It is generally illegal to discharge a firearm within city limits.
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It was not a threat. It was an exaggerated response to an uncompromising stance. I was taught never to make a threat unless you are prepared to carry it out and I am not a fan of carrying anything. Even watching other people carrying things makes me uncomfortable. Mainly because of the possibility they may ask me to help. |
#35
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There was an illegal alien who shot and killed a nice young woman in SF. He lied and said it was an accident.
Home owner should just say he fired his weapon but accidentally struck the nice young man.
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Calguns- redacted more than Hillarys bengazi emails. Quote:
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#36
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Take a guess how well that's going to work out for you.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member Calguns.net an incorported entity - President. The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President. The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director. DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW! Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA. |
#37
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Yes I realize that, but as has been discussed, I was singling out whether there exists any state of federal statute that mandates you talk to the police. It has nothing to do with whether the action of firing the weapon was legal or not.
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#38
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I am not arguing that its a good idea to stay quiet which could lead to consequence against the shooter. I am simply saying there is no law that forces anyone to speak to the police. This is why i phrased my original question the way I did which for some reason sent you on some sort of legal mumbo jumbo tirade. I was simply asking what law would the shooter be in violation of by no talking to the police? That question does, in fact, have a very simple answer. |
#39
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Things like not reporting the incident promptly can work against you. Not saying anything to police can work against you. Saying too much at the wrong time can work against you. Talking but leaving things out can work against you. Saying the wrong things can work against you. Not telling the truth can work against you. And understanding how the law works can help you better prepare to handle things in ways that will help increase you chances for a good outcome.
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#40
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