Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > 2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-21-2013, 12:04 AM
fizux's Avatar
fizux fizux is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,540
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Richards v. Prieto (CCW)

Richards v. Prieto [Yolo County]
(FKA Sykes v. McGinness)
Issue: 2A Right to Bear Arms Outside the Home

Current Status:
As of 3/24/2014: Richards' response due 4/11/2014; possible en banc review.

3/21/2014: Court directs Richards to file response to petition NLT 4/11/2014.
3/18/2014: Prieto/Yolo petition for rehearing en banc.
3/5/2014: 9CA Panel Opinion (unpublished); (attached pending RECAP)
11/26/2013 - SAF's 28(j) reply letter (Piszczatoski/Drake v. Filko), and 28(j) letter (U.S. v. Chovan).
11/13/2013 - Yolo's 28(j) letter (Piszczatoski/Drake v. Filko)
9/16/2013 - SAF's 28(j) letter (People v. Aguilar)
12/6/2012 - Oral Argument (Audio)
12/2/2012-5/29/2013 - Various 28j / Supp. Auth. filed


Trial Court: E.D. Cal.
Case No.: 2:09-cv-01235
Docket: http://ia700408.us.archive.org/4/ite...26.docket.html

Appellate Court: 9CA
Case No.: 11-16255
Docket: http://ia601700.us.archive.org/8/ite...55.docket.html

Links:
CGF Wiki for this case: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Richards_v._Prieto
CGF Wiki Litigation page: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Li...st_and_Present
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 11-16255_Documents.pdf (196.2 KB, 105 views)

Last edited by fizux; 03-24-2014 at 6:12 PM.. Reason: updates
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-21-2013, 4:11 AM
hardlyworking hardlyworking is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,207
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Interesting that the same exact 3-judge panel has both this and the Peruta cases. I guess if they can get in line with Heller/MacDonald it could work out well for us!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-21-2013, 8:19 AM
taperxz taperxz is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,359
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardlyworking View Post
Interesting that the same exact 3-judge panel has both this and the Peruta cases. I guess if they can get in line with Heller/MacDonald it could work out well for us!
UHHHH, maybe because they were heard one after the other on the same day?

Just an FYI
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-21-2013, 1:53 PM
stix213's Avatar
stix213 stix213 is offline
AKA: Joe Censored
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Manteca
Posts: 18,955
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Does anyone know if there is a date either of these decisions by the 9th have to be made by? Or is it just whenever they feel like it?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:02 AM
skyy_capt skyy_capt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: norcal
Posts: 140
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Curious also. Was thinking of trying to get my ccw before Christmas.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-22-2013, 6:11 AM
flyonwall flyonwall is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 309
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The have no deadline but average 6 months to a year.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-22-2013, 7:08 AM
fizux's Avatar
fizux fizux is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,540
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
Does anyone know if there is a date either of these decisions by the 9th have to be made by? Or is it just whenever they feel like it?
Part of the delay may be related to another case (Mehl) which had procedural priority at 9CA, so the decision in this case would have had to follow Mehl's holding if it was on point. Mehl came out recently, and thankfully didn't do any damage, so the coast is clear for the Richards/Peruta/Baker panel.
__________________
Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL.

Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay

Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:10 AM
Falstaff's Avatar
Falstaff Falstaff is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,317
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
Does anyone know if there is a date either of these decisions by the 9th have to be made by? Or is it just whenever they feel like it?
"The STENCH from the BENCH is making me CLENCH"
-Michael Alan Weiner
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-24-2013, 4:19 AM
press1280 press1280 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 3,017
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizux View Post
Part of the delay may be related to another case (Mehl) which had procedural priority at 9CA, so the decision in this case would have had to follow Mehl's holding if it was on point. Mehl came out recently, and thankfully didn't do any damage, so the coast is clear for the Richards/Peruta/Baker panel.
Curious if the panel would even start working on their opinion before Mehl was decided? If not then we could be waiting a while, to the point where if this were THE case to go to SCOTUS it wouldn't happen until the 2014-2015 term.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-24-2013, 1:29 PM
Window_Seat's Avatar
Window_Seat Window_Seat is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ (The United States of America)
Posts: 3,533
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Just for info, Mehl was unpublished, but could it still be cited as direct application? Did Boyd v. Benton County (a case I'm thinking off the top of my head) make mention of that or is it not optional for judges to cite unpublished material? When I listen to oral arguments (every night at work) in the 9th Cir., I hear Counsel sometimes cite unpublished holdings, and they (for the most part) will make sure that it's known that whatever is cited is unpublished.

Edit:
One other quick note, the 3 cases in Peruta, Richards & Baker were heard by the same panel in one court session.

Erik.

Last edited by Window_Seat; 08-24-2013 at 1:40 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:47 PM
Nick Justice's Avatar
Nick Justice Nick Justice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, CA
Posts: 1,985
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
Just for info, Mehl was unpublished, but could it still be cited as direct application? Did Boyd v. Benton County (a case I'm thinking off the top of my head) make mention of that or is it not optional for judges to cite unpublished material? When I listen to oral arguments (every night at work) in the 9th Cir., I hear Counsel sometimes cite unpublished holdings, and they (for the most part) will make sure that it's known that whatever is cited is unpublished.

Edit:
One other quick note, the 3 cases in Peruta, Richards & Baker were heard by the same panel in one court session.

Erik.
Unpublished cases generally cannot be cited as binding precedent to support an argument. (Why they choose to avoid publication is a mystery.) As you say, if you want the court to consider an unpublished case, you MUST declare it as unpublished. As such, the case is persuasive, non-binding authority. "Justice O'Scannlain, You might want to consider this case."
The court must follow binding case law and authority, but can dismiss persuasive authority without comment or consideration.
__________________
It doesn't matter how scary, ugly, uncomfortable, or inconvenient self defense can be. Like it or not, you will never, ever be relieved of your duty and responsibility to defend your life, your family, your country and your freedom.

How much ammo do I need? Enough to last me the rest of my life, and then lot more for later.

The government does not come knocking at your door. It comes knocking down your door.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-26-2013, 1:39 PM
fizux's Avatar
fizux fizux is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,540
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Justice View Post
Why they choose to avoid publication is a mystery.
Because the case doesn't add any useful jurisprudence in the eyes of the panel. In Mehl, the case went away for administrative reasons (didn't complete application, etc.) that were unrelated to the 2A issues raised.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-26-2013, 4:10 PM
stix213's Avatar
stix213 stix213 is offline
AKA: Joe Censored
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Manteca
Posts: 18,955
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
Just for info, Mehl was unpublished, but could it still be cited as direct application? Did Boyd v. Benton County (a case I'm thinking off the top of my head) make mention of that or is it not optional for judges to cite unpublished material? When I listen to oral arguments (every night at work) in the 9th Cir., I hear Counsel sometimes cite unpublished holdings, and they (for the most part) will make sure that it's known that whatever is cited is unpublished.

Edit:
One other quick note, the 3 cases in Peruta, Richards & Baker were heard by the same panel in one court session.

Erik.
I thought I read in another thread that they went back and published it
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-26-2013, 4:40 PM
Window_Seat's Avatar
Window_Seat Window_Seat is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ (The United States of America)
Posts: 3,533
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
I thought I read in another thread that they went back and published it
I just looked around the ca9 and ecf.ca9 pages, and nothing about going back to publish it. The only thing that is moving about the case is the petition for rehearing en banc, and that is a pending decision. My hope is that it is not reheard. I don't even know if briefs are due or not at this point.

I'm starting to wonder at this point if Peruta, Richards & Baker are being delayed pending the Mehl en banc reconsideration decision.

Erik.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-26-2013, 5:35 PM
Window_Seat's Avatar
Window_Seat Window_Seat is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ (The United States of America)
Posts: 3,533
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Justice View Post
Unpublished cases generally cannot be cited as binding precedent to support an argument. (Why they choose to avoid publication is a mystery.) As you say, if you want the court to consider an unpublished case, you MUST declare it as unpublished. As such, the case is persuasive, non-binding authority. "Justice O'Scannlain, You might want to consider this case."
The court must follow binding case law and authority, but can dismiss persuasive authority without comment or consideration.
That about makes sense, and the authority for that might be here in Boyd v. Benton County, 374 F.3d 773, 781 (9th Cir. 2004), no?

"In the Ninth Circuit, we begin our inquiry by looking to binding precedent. See Capoeman v. Reed, 754 F.2d 1512, 1514 (9th Cir. 1985). If the right is clearly established by decisional authority of the Supreme Court or this Circuit, our inquiry should come to an end. On the other hand, when ‘‘there are relatively few cases on point, and none of them are binding,’’ we may inquire whether the Ninth Circuit or Supreme Court, at the time the out-of-circuit opinions were rendered, would have reached the same results. See id. at 1515."

But Boyd doesn't tell us that cases which look to unpublished authority must be rendered unpublished, correct?

The Supreme Court talks about their own precedent "ha[ving] direct application in a case, yet appear[ing] to rest on reasons rejected in some other line of decisions", and how "the Court of Appeals should follow the case which directly controls," (Rodriguez de Quijas v. Shearson/American Express, Inc., 490 U.S. 477, 484 (1989)), but I think that this was an admonition to the lower courts from the Supreme Court that thou shalt not tinker with long standing Supreme Court precedent, even if it has no stare decisis effect before any court, which is probably why the Boyd Court didn't mention Rodriguez for that purpose, no? Anyone care to chime in on that one? I've been kinda interested in that part of case law lately.

Erik.

Last edited by Window_Seat; 08-26-2013 at 5:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-30-2013, 7:31 AM
dave86's Avatar
dave86 dave86 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 52
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default Whenever they feel like it

Quote:
Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
Does anyone know if there is a date either of these decisions by the 9th have to be made by? Or is it just whenever they feel like it?
From the 9th Circuit FAQs:
18. How long does it take from the time of argument to the time of decision?

The Court has no time limit, but most cases are decided within 3 months to a year.
__________________
I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.

Margaret Thatcher
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-30-2013, 7:19 PM
thedrickel's Avatar
thedrickel thedrickel is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lost in the wheels of confusion
Posts: 5,526
iTrader: 140 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave86 View Post
From the 9th Circuit FAQs:
18. How long does it take from the time of argument to the time of decision?

The Court has no time limit, but most cases are decided within 3 months to a year.
I don't think 2013 is going to be the year. Hopefully the first half of 2014 will be fruitful, since we are looking at 3 cases together.
__________________
I hate people that are full of hate.

It's not illegal to tip for PPT!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-31-2013, 1:53 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,370
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I think its partially what Erik said and I think the Ninth Circuit is waiting to see whether Drake is granted cert. If so they will hold off on rendering a decision in the three cases. Its been eight months since arguments I doubt that its going to be much longer if Drake cert is denied. I am merely speculating. There have been a lot of 28j letters filed by both parties in Baker. Every case in the country has been good for us. Most recently the Mass. Supreme Court issued a decision I filed which is just spot on. This is the 28j notice and the attached case.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/160149338/Filed-Simkin-Notice

As to citing unpublished sources. I am horrible at citations but the way you tell the court a decision is unpublished is simply by how you do the citation
this is just a example Holder, 342 F. App’x 907, 908-09 (4th Cir. 2009)
that is unpublished
this is published Tucson Woman’s Clinic v. Eden, 379
F.3d 531, 544 (9th Cir. 2004)

You really should not cite to unpublished cases unless you literally have nothing else to cite to. They do not have a lot of value especially if they are from another jurisdiction. The reason cases are not published is the Court thinks the case was poorly done and does not want it as precedent or the case is not very important.

Last edited by wolfwood; 08-31-2013 at 2:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-01-2013, 7:23 AM
Paladin's Avatar
Paladin Paladin is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SFBA
Posts: 12,278
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I think its partially what Erik said and I think the Ninth Circuit is waiting to see whether Drake is granted cert. If so they will hold off on rendering a decision in the three cases. Its been eight months since arguments I doubt that its going to be much longer if Drake cert is denied. I am merely speculating.
If SCOTUS grants cert. in Drake, would the 9th inform the parties that they're holding off in Peruta-Richards-Baker pending a decision in Drake or do they just hold off w/o informing anyone?

Either way, could SCOTUS tell the 9th not to hold off, to come to a decision in Peruta-Richards-Baker because they want the benefit of the opinion of the 9th before deciding Drake? That's what I'm hoping for.

Could Alan word his brief in such a way that he raises this issue (basically suggest to SCOTUS that they "ask" the 9th to come to a conclusion ASAP for the benefit of SCOTUS)?

Last edited by Paladin; 09-01-2013 at 7:26 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-01-2013, 3:40 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,370
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
If SCOTUS grants cert. in Drake, would the 9th inform the parties that they're holding off in Peruta-Richards-Baker pending a decision in Drake or do they just hold off w/o informing anyone?

Either way, could SCOTUS tell the 9th not to hold off, to come to a decision in Peruta-Richards-Baker because they want the benefit of the opinion of the 9th before deciding Drake? That's what I'm hoping for.

Could Alan word his brief in such a way that he raises this issue (basically suggest to SCOTUS that they "ask" the 9th to come to a conclusion ASAP for the benefit of SCOTUS)?
I believe that there is a very strong chance that the panel would issue a stay if Drake were taken. It is up to them.

My understanding is SCOTUS can not order that and I don't know of a situation where they've even asked a Circuit panel to render a opinion before it was ready.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-01-2013, 5:33 PM
Paladin's Avatar
Paladin Paladin is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SFBA
Posts: 12,278
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
I believe that there is a very strong chance that the panel would issue a stay if Drake were taken. It is up to them.

My understanding is SCOTUS can not order that and I don't know of a situation where they've even asked a Circuit panel to render a opinion before it was ready.
Not before it is ready, but rather request/suggest/instruct them not to put it on ice until SCOTUS decides Drake.

IIRC, all lower fed cts are creations of SCOTUS, just the way that all local gov'ts are creations of a state.

Maybe they could even say we'd like that opinion by 2014 Jan 01. That way both sides could deal w/any new arguments the 9th raised, if any, in supplemental briefs and in oral arguments.

I mean, its not like the judges on the 9th never had a due date for an assignment before.... It's just telling them, this is an important issue that we, SCOTUS, are going to deal w/so we'd like your input in a timely manner, esp since this is a FUNDAMENTAL and ENUMERATED right we're dealing with. Make writing an opinion in this case a high, or even your highest, priority.

Has SCOTUS has faced this situation before? If so, any Con. law experts here know what happened then?

Last edited by Paladin; 09-01-2013 at 5:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-01-2013, 5:50 PM
Al Norris Al Norris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 386
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Article III Section 1:
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.
So while the Supreme Court has the final judicial say, the lower courts are in fact, creatures of the legislature.
__________________
Listings of the Current 2A Cases, over at the Firing Line.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-01-2013, 6:30 PM
Paladin's Avatar
Paladin Paladin is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SFBA
Posts: 12,278
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Norris View Post
Article III Section 1:
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.
So while the Supreme Court has the final judicial say, the lower courts are in fact, creatures of the legislature.
Ah, thx. Haven't gone over Art. III in quite awhile.

Do you know if SCOTUS can request the 9th to release their opinion in time for SCOTUS to review it this term in re. Woollard?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-01-2013, 11:03 PM
Paladin's Avatar
Paladin Paladin is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SFBA
Posts: 12,278
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
If SCOTUS grants cert. in Drake, would the 9th inform the parties that they're holding off in Peruta-Richards-Baker pending a decision in Drake or do they just hold off w/o informing anyone?

Either way, could SCOTUS tell the 9th not to hold off, to come to a decision in Peruta-Richards-Baker because they want the benefit of the opinion of the 9th before deciding Drake? That's what I'm hoping for.

Could Alan word his brief in such a way that he raises this issue (basically suggest to SCOTUS that they "ask" the 9th to come to a conclusion ASAP for the benefit of SCOTUS)?
Um, I see that you were talking about Drake, so I just started talking about Drake even though Drake is pending a decision re. going en banc.

I meant to talk about Woollard which Gura has already requested cert. for.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-02-2013, 1:24 PM
flyonwall flyonwall is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 309
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Neither Woollard or Drake would have no impact on what the 9th does, and more likely the reverse. Scotus will deny both and wait for the 9th to complete their work to get a comprehensive opinion addressing all of the Circuits. Circuit Courts are independent courts' of final determination. There is no appellate right beyond their decision other than a request for cert.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-03-2013, 11:30 AM
Drivedabizness's Avatar
Drivedabizness Drivedabizness is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Nevada City, CA
Posts: 2,587
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Norris View Post
Article III Section 1:
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.
So while the Supreme Court has the final judicial say, the lower courts are in fact, creatures of the legislature.
Congress authorizes ordains and establishes inferior Courts. They can abolish and re-institute if/as they want (hasn't happened in 200 years).
__________________
Proud CGN Contributor
USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot
Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-03-2013, 1:11 PM
press1280 press1280 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 3,017
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Um, I see that you were talking about Drake, so I just started talking about Drake even though Drake is pending a decision re. going en banc.
I meant to talk about Woollard which Gura has already requested cert. for.
Already denied by a vote of 8-4. Clock is ticking on a cert petition.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-03-2013, 8:29 PM
Paladin's Avatar
Paladin Paladin is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SFBA
Posts: 12,278
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
Already denied by a vote of 8-4. Clock is ticking on a cert petition.
You're right! On 2013 Aug 27 the request was denied. They've got 90 days from then to ask for cert.

Somehow, I don't think they'll wait until the last minute to decide whether to ask for cert or not....

Last edited by Paladin; 09-04-2013 at 8:07 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-04-2013, 2:18 AM
press1280 press1280 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 3,017
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Agreed. If they take the whole 90 days, add in the guaranteed "I need more time!", and you may find yourself waiting until NEXT term (2014-2015).
They can probably wait until SCOTUS decides on Woollard and stay in this term.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-04-2013, 7:50 AM
Cowboy5150's Avatar
Cowboy5150 Cowboy5150 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 38
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Still in a holding pattern?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-12-2013, 6:01 AM
fizux's Avatar
fizux fizux is offline
Senior Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,540
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy5150 View Post
Still in a holding pattern?
Yarp.
__________________
Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL.

Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay

Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA).
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:21 PM
Window_Seat's Avatar
Window_Seat Window_Seat is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ (The United States of America)
Posts: 3,533
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Cool FRAP 28(j) authority by Appellees

FRAP 28(j) letter filed by "Appellees County of Yolo and Ed Prieto" to note the holding in Drake v. Filko, 724 F.3d 426, 428 (3d Cir. 2013), Woollard v. Gallagher, 712 F.3d 865 (4th Cir. 2013) and the fact that SCOTUS denied cert in Woollard and Kachalsky. People getting all excited over SCOTUS denying cert.

I'm still wondering if 28(j) Authority will be filed by our side regarding the interesting holding I note here.

Erik.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 28(j) by Prieto - 11-13-2013.pdf (53.9 KB, 43 views)

Last edited by Window_Seat; 11-14-2013 at 10:25 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-15-2013, 12:27 AM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 949
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
FRAP 28(j) letter filed by "Appellees County of Yolo and Ed Prieto" to note the holding in Drake v. Filko, 724 F.3d 426, 428 (3d Cir. 2013), Woollard v. Gallagher, 712 F.3d 865 (4th Cir. 2013) and the fact that SCOTUS denied cert in Woollard and Kachalsky. People getting all excited over SCOTUS denying cert.

I'm still wondering if 28(j) Authority will be filed by our side regarding the interesting holding I note here.

Erik.
Who signs a legal document "very truly yours"... are they sleeping together or what?
__________________
Lawyer, but not your lawyer. Posts aren't legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-15-2013, 5:34 AM
press1280 press1280 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: WV
Posts: 3,017
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
FRAP 28(j) letter filed by "Appellees County of Yolo and Ed Prieto" to note the holding in Drake v. Filko, 724 F.3d 426, 428 (3d Cir. 2013), Woollard v. Gallagher, 712 F.3d 865 (4th Cir. 2013) and the fact that SCOTUS denied cert in Woollard and Kachalsky. People getting all excited over SCOTUS denying cert.

I'm still wondering if 28(j) Authority will be filed by our side regarding the interesting holding I note here.

Erik.
SCOTUS has said that denials of cert are just that; it is not an endorsement of the judgement below. Yolo is obviously trying to give CA9 the impression that SCOTUS rubber stamped Kachalsky and Woolard.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-15-2013, 6:24 AM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,370
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimes View Post
Who signs a legal document "very truly yours"... are they sleeping together or what?
Nearly all attorneys do when engaged in official correspondence with people they are not familiar with. That includes your attorneys.
I would note that they should have attached the decision and there is not much point in filing one since the government's attorney in Baker already filed a 28j letter regarding Drake.

Last edited by wolfwood; 11-15-2013 at 6:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-15-2013, 9:21 AM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 949
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
Nearly all attorneys do when engaged in official correspondence with people they are not familiar with. That includes your attorneys.
I would note that they should have attached the decision and there is not much point in filing one since the government's attorney in Baker already filed a 28j letter regarding Drake.

Very truly yours belongs in a love letter! You lose cool points if you do that :P. Clearly, no man card exists if you are signing letters like this!
__________________
Lawyer, but not your lawyer. Posts aren't legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-15-2013, 12:13 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,370
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

fair enough brother
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-16-2013, 10:05 PM
Window_Seat's Avatar
Window_Seat Window_Seat is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ (The United States of America)
Posts: 3,533
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

My elementary school teachers would address their signatures with "very truly yours" when there was a letter to my parents, which would have resulted in certain punishment.

Erik.

Last edited by Window_Seat; 11-16-2013 at 10:07 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-20-2013, 1:59 PM
sarabellum sarabellum is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,235
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
Just for info, Mehl was unpublished, but could it still be cited as direct application? Did Boyd v. Benton County (a case I'm thinking off the top of my head) make mention of that or is it not optional for judges to cite unpublished material? When I listen to oral arguments (every night at work) in the 9th Cir., I hear Counsel sometimes cite unpublished holdings, and they (for the most part) will make sure that it's known that whatever is cited is unpublished.

Edit:
One other quick note, the 3 cases in Peruta, Richards & Baker were heard by the same panel in one court session.

Erik.
Citing to unpublished decisions is sanctionable conduct, as attorneys have a duty of candor to the tribunal to only put forward meritorious legal theories:
In Alicia T. v. County of Los Angeles (2nd Dist. 1990) 222 Cal.App.3d 869, 271 Cal.Rptr. 513, the court found that a lawyer's conduct in failing to address adverse controlling authority and instead persisting in citing to an unpublished case, despite knowledge of these defects, warranted sanctions. Nevertheless, the court could not (and did not) point to the CRPC in support of its order to impose sanctions; rather, the Court first attempted to find that the lawyer had violated a local court rule governing the form of briefs. The court then "rejected these options because the violations in issue here involve more than the mere form of the brief." Id. at 886. The Court proceeded to order "a more severe sanction than those set forth in California Rules of Court, rule 18," though its struggle to find authority for such sanctions is apparent in the decision. Id.
Best regards.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-20-2013, 2:53 PM
M. D. Van Norman's Avatar
M. D. Van Norman M. D. Van Norman is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California refugee
Posts: 4,168
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
SCOTUS has said that denials of cert are just that; it is not an endorsement of the judgement below.
A notion that doesn’t fool anyone.
__________________
Matthew D. Van Norman
Dancing Giant Sales | Licensed Firearms Dealer | Rainier, WA
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:22 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy