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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 06-12-2018, 7:51 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnyh75 View Post
I refuse to register my AR I converted them to feature less about to months ago but recently converted them back to normal planing to go to Texas,Arizona,Nevada wich ever i find and opening in my field My wife is good to go my kids are home school so I'm just waiting to save more money I love it here have roots here I never thought I would leave Ca is not what i feels is home anymore GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND THE REPUBLIC USA
Go back to featureless while you are here. Don't take unnecessary risks.
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  #82  
Old 06-12-2018, 8:28 AM
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By not registering you are ruining one of our only hopes which is “common use”. You are a selfish ***** ruining the cause. Have fun with your useless featureless monstrosity. If you want to cave and submit by making your rifle useless then that’s your business. As a marine infantrymen I would rather have to spend an extra second changing mags then carry a useless piece of junk. You guys know who the next governor is going to be right?

I’ve already begun the process of moving to the state of my birth Texas. Getting out is the only hope any of you have.
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  #83  
Old 06-12-2018, 8:47 AM
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There are two camps and we won't know who's right for a few years.

We can have confiscation of registered rifles, we can have a court strike down the parts of regulations that are not in the code, we might have a test case that ends up allowing registered owners to take off BBs, we might have a future featureless registration, we might even have featureless+fixed magazine requirement (legislators are really upset about fin grips), or featureless+fixed+registration.

For most of us, the key is to monitor legislation and make our moves way ahead of any meaningful new law. If they start passing confiscation, it's time to unregister. If they start attacking featureless, the few registered guns might be all that is left.

Choose wisely and be prepared to bear the consequences whatever your choice. Either camp might regret their decision. Hedge your bets too.
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  #84  
Old 06-12-2018, 8:55 AM
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BBs are not "safe" enough for those politicians.

and now you believe a grip wrap + muzzle will satisfy them.

i know Newsom is not satisfied. He called it "AW loopholes"


Gun stores are still selling ARs and such which can be converted back to BBAW, normal AW in minutes with basic tools.

this is what they will do next.
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  #85  
Old 06-12-2018, 9:33 AM
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There are two camps and we won't know who's right for a few years.

We can have confiscation of registered rifles, we can have a court strike down the parts of regulations that are not in the code, we might have a test case that ends up allowing registered owners to take off BBs, we might have a future featureless registration, we might even have featureless+fixed magazine requirement (legislators are really upset about fin grips), or featureless+fixed+registration.

For most of us, the key is to monitor legislation and make our moves way ahead of any meaningful new law. If they start passing confiscation, it's time to unregister. If they start attacking featureless, the few registered guns might be all that is left.

Choose wisely and be prepared to bear the consequences whatever your choice. Either camp might regret their decision. Hedge your bets too.
I feel like more legislation against featureless rifles is one of the more probable things that could happen in the future. It's clear they hate guns, and the AR in particular, and they will not be satisfied with what they're getting. AR sales in CA are higher than other parts of America because of the fear of legislation, even in featureless configurations.

I could definitely see politicians claiming "loopholes" when talking about fin grips and muzzle brakes, which ironically would highlight the useless of defining a weapon by cosmetic features.

Let's all not forget that CA has kept the DROS info on all long guns sold since 2014 and we've already seen them contact people registering guns from that period knowing their details are wrong. So they have ready access to that info, so if your 2015 AR is featureless, they're going to assume you have it.

People need to do what they're comfortable with, but I don't think going featureless is 'beating' them. It's another delaying tactic. Eventually this ends in court, but we don't know how that will end and we don't even know when it will truly start.
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  #86  
Old 06-12-2018, 9:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Echo4kilo View Post
By not registering you are ruining one of our only hopes which is “common use”. You are a selfish ***** ruining the cause. Have fun with your useless featureless monstrosity. If you want to cave and submit by making your rifle useless then that’s your business. As a marine infantrymen I would rather have to spend an extra second changing mags then carry a useless piece of junk. You guys know who the next governor is going to be right?

I’ve already begun the process of moving to the state of my birth Texas. Getting out is the only hope any of you have.
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  #87  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:26 PM
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it is funny to see people saying "F U DOJ, i will not comply. i have already BOUGHT the parts and converted my AR/AK to featureless, even those with 14.5 inch barrels"
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  #88  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:48 PM
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There are two camps and we won't know who's right for a few years.
But there is only one way to participate in both camps. No registration = stuck in featureless camp.

What if a court does decide that the BBs can come off? All the featureless geniuses will have irretrievably forfeited their chance at a full-featured, normal mag release semi-auto. There will be no going back.
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  #89  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:50 PM
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it is funny to see people saying "F U DOJ, i will not comply. i have already BOUGHT the parts and converted my AR/AK to featureless, even those with 14.5 inch barrels"
Yes that's my favorite. FU DOJ, I'm not registering my BBAW, I'm getting rid of it! Take THAT! NOW who's in charge! Ha!
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  #90  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:57 PM
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But there is only one way to participate in both camps. No registration = stuck in featureless camp.

What if a court does decide that the BBs can come off? All the featureless geniuses will have irretrievably forfeited their chance at a full-featured, normal mag release semi-auto. There will be no going back.
this will happen. it is really the reason why DOJ doesnt want people to register.

if confiscation is their goal, why they made registering so difficult? even telling people to correct irrelevant mistakes?
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  #91  
Old 06-12-2018, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
But there is only one way to participate in both camps. No registration = stuck in featureless camp.

What if a court does decide that the BBs can come off? All the featureless geniuses will have irretrievably forfeited their chance at a full-featured, normal mag release semi-auto. There will be no going back.
Two years from now we will be arguing if you can put a pistol grip back on a FAW "Featureless Assault Weapon". The CADOJ will argue you can't because it makes it a different "assault weapon".

Regarding your main point, I don't think there will ever be a situation where taking the bullet button off argument enters court.

1. CRPA lawsuits over the regulations will probably lose due to the fact that the 9th circuit is corrupt.

2. On an individual basis, its going to be a fairly rare situation, and when it does occur (based on what I've seen) they will confiscate the firearm but not bother pressing charges so they don't have to test it. (Regarding Bakerfield, I'm assuming the rifles with standard mag releases were never registered or attempted to be registered)
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  #92  
Old 06-12-2018, 5:39 PM
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It's even worse than that. But, you having left, it's no longer any if your business. Go tell your friends on IDguns.
That is very very short sighted thinking. It is my business. Unfortunately the California liberal insanity is spreading. Court cases out of California can have serious ramifications all over the country. So I will always pay attention to California and it's stupidly.

But all that said it won't stop me from laughing.....
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  #93  
Old 06-12-2018, 5:49 PM
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Regarding your main point, I don't think there will ever be a situation where taking the bullet button off argument enters court.
Oh it'll get to court, it just won't go anywhere. I give it a 1:10 chance. But, it is still a chance.
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  #94  
Old 06-12-2018, 5:52 PM
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That is very very short sighted thinking. It is my business. Unfortunately the California liberal insanity is spreading. Court cases out of California can have serious ramifications all over the country. So I will always pay attention to California and it's stupidly.

But all that said it won't stop me from laughing.....
So do that on IDguns or SpudGunz or whatever you all have over there. That's where your fight is. You should be busy growing potatoes or whatever, over there, not gloating back here in CA.
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  #95  
Old 06-12-2018, 7:26 PM
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I think the current rate of registrations is about 150 weapons per day. I did a detailed analysis of my CRIS #'s, and the times they were generated, and across multiple CFARS accounts (because of joint registration).

The CRIS #'s do increase predictably, the average increment from my data was 7 (and ranged from 2-10, from a sample size of about 30). Day-to-day, they do increase by about 100K, but intra-day they only increase at about 45 / hour, so there's some weird discontinuities across days (do the math, 100K / day is over 4K / hour). 45 * 24 / 7 = 154 transactions a day.

Factors that my estimate is low:
- I'm assuming I'm the only user of the system, the actual avg. increment between CRIS #'s may be much less than 7 if many others are using system same time as me (but can't be too many others, gap is 2-10 and increment cannot be < 1, so 1-9 other users maximum).
- I'm sure as we get closer to deadline, traffic will increase.

Factors that my estimate is high:
- CRIS is used for things other than AW registration, like new resident report, C&R firearm report, etc... These don't seem like they'd be high volume though.
- Just because a CRIS # is generated, doesn't mean a weapon gets registered. I had many firearms in my cart, with #'s, that I had to throw out because when the webpage timed out it reset some things.

Overall, when the dust settles, I'm pretty certain at least several thousand firearms will have been registered, maybe even 10K or more (especially if there is a huge surge later this month, the way there was a huge rush of people buying their BB weapons right up until Christmas of 2016).
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  #96  
Old 06-12-2018, 7:41 PM
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So do that on IDguns or SpudGunz or whatever you all have over there. That's where your fight is. You should be busy growing potatoes or whatever, over there, not gloating back here in CA.
You should stop telling my what to do son.............. .
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  #97  
Old 06-12-2018, 7:46 PM
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Well gee whiz dad, maybe you need some pointers in your advanced age.
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  #98  
Old 06-12-2018, 9:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Echo4kilo View Post
By not registering you are ruining one of our only hopes which is “common use”. You are a selfish ***** ruining the cause. Have fun with your useless featureless monstrosity. If you want to cave and submit by making your rifle useless then that’s your business. As a marine infantrymen I would rather have to spend an extra second changing mags then carry a useless piece of junk. You guys know who the next governor is going to be right?
Useless? How so? My featureless has a regular mag release and a Thorsden stock that is actually long enough for my frame. Monstrosity? Have you seen the new model Thorsden stock? It is rather comely. The only thing I need to do is to find something to replace the A2 muzzle device I had to take off; the thread protector is really not very sexy.
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  #99  
Old 06-12-2018, 9:56 PM
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What I'm seeing is the closer the deadline, the people I know that were considering registering have said screw it. With an almost certainty of Newsom being elected they are deciding to take their chances.
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  #100  
Old 06-12-2018, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Echo4kilo View Post
By not registering you are ruining one of our only hopes which is “common use”. You are a selfish ***** ruining the cause. Have fun with your useless featureless monstrosity. If you want to cave and submit by making your rifle useless then that’s your business. As a marine infantrymen I would rather have to spend an extra second changing mags then carry a useless piece of junk. You guys know who the next governor is going to be right?

I’ve already begun the process of moving to the state of my birth Texas. Getting out is the only hope any of you have.
Do you really believe the only way you can prove common use is to register firearms with the government? Who taught you that idiocy? (or did you make it up yourself?

No matter. If you are fleeing the state for easy liberty it should not matter to you one whit. Deprive us of your presence, sooner rather than later,... and we will forget you were ever our countryman.
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  #101  
Old 06-13-2018, 4:59 AM
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Well gee whiz dad, maybe you need some pointers in your advanced age.
You're one of the reasons law abiding guns are loosing in California....
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  #102  
Old 06-13-2018, 5:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SmallShark View Post
registering = bend over?

i think it is the other way around.
Lately it has proved the other way around. Are you willing to speng Boo Koo $$$ on a Lawyer defending you from the DOJ with a anti American Prog. Judge, hell bent in prosecuting a white gun owners, just because you screwed up when you sent pics of your AW?
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  #103  
Old 06-13-2018, 9:37 AM
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Based on CRIS numbers the current daily rate of registration is 100K. Also, though based on very limited experience, registering after, say, noon is really slow, but late at night is great.
B.S.
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  #104  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:03 AM
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Only idiots register their rifles. These will be the first ones confiscated by the Marxist Newscum.
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  #105  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:15 AM
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Only idiots register their rifles. These will be the first ones confiscated by the Marxist Newscum.
Maybe but thats a couple years down the road + another couple years of court cases. If in 7 to 10 years they win, I lose 1 75 dollar lower or move it out of state. No big deal to me. (I registered only 1 rifle.. probably should have grandfathered two just in case.... but whatever)
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  #106  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:39 AM
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I burned through a few numbers as well before I got it right. Some interesting numbers will be:

1. How many individuals registered (not counting spouses)
2. Total number of firearms registered
3. Total registrations
4. Total denials

My guess is that this is going to have a fairly small turnout. We couldn’t even get enough signatures for gunmaggedon and that was advertised all over the place. If there are more registrations than gunmaggedon signatures then people are just stupid.


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- Just because a CRIS # is generated, doesn't mean a weapon gets registered. I had many firearms in my cart, with #'s, that I had to throw out because when the webpage timed out it reset some things.
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  #107  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
But there is only one way to participate in both camps. No registration = stuck in featureless camp.

What if a court does decide that the BBs can come off? All the featureless geniuses will have irretrievably forfeited their chance at a full-featured, normal mag release semi-auto. There will be no going back.
This isn't a bad argument. Counting on the courts, seems very perilous, though. The way it plays out is even if there's a win at the lower court, there will be an immediate appeal and a stay as it climbs up to the 9th Circus and then to SCOTUS. Of course, if we lose, it tends to be immediate with stays being rejected and the noose only seems to get tighter.

As it is, the 9th is stacked with leftists and SCOTUS tends to decline cert, etc and as long as Ginsburg and Kennedy remain on the Court, it's all relying on Kennedy who isn't very reliable. If/when Trump can replace one or both of them, this gets more possible... but in the meantime, we have to hope against hope one of the solid conservatives doesn't retire or die, as well.
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  #108  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:26 PM
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You're one of the reasons law abiding guns are loosing in California....
You could not be more wrong. Keep your assumptions to yourself. In Idaho.
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  #109  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:30 PM
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Only idiots register their rifles. These will be the first ones confiscated by the Marxist Newscum.
And the name-calling comes out when the arguments fall apart.

You do realize that the form 4473 is a type of registration, right? So either you have no legally-acquired MSRs, or you are, as you put it, a what?
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  #110  
Old 06-13-2018, 2:11 PM
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the whole registration is just a show that the DOJ plays for the legislators.

the laws were passed so CADOJ has to do something.

unlike those those politicians who know nothing about guns, there are people in CADOJ, who actually know guns. they know the law will create millions of new AWs.

when it is getting close to 01-01-2017, no gun stores had any complete ar in stock. i was in the Gun Range once. people lined up for Ruger lowers, and most of them bought more than 1.

why people lined up to buy AR/AK before the deadline? so they could own a featureless?

NOW, featureless and lowers are plenty at gun stores, i dont see people lining up for them.

Why it took CADOJ that long to get the registration started? i believe there were countless debates at the dpt.

follow the law would make tens of thousands if not million of gun owners happy, also makes our legislators look like jackasses.

they decided to write their underground regulations hoping (or knowing) the court would side with them. if a judge strikes it down in the future, at least there would be fewer new AWs.

the law suit against the regulations lost, but more suits will follow.


before 2017, they had BB AR/AK for torturing. later, they will have featureless AR/AK to play with.

registering is possession protected by the laws passed by anti-gun legislators. if they have other targets to go for, they wouldnt slap their own faces

register when you still can. if featureless is indeed way to go, go buy a lower NOW or ten of them.
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Old 06-13-2018, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Yes that's my favorite. FU DOJ, I'm not registering my BBAW, I'm getting rid of it! Take THAT! NOW who's in charge! Ha!
As Rush once sang "If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice".
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  #112  
Old 06-13-2018, 3:02 PM
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I think the real argument that is ignored is how many people know to register? If the actual numbers are really low compared to the known number of DROS'd rifles, then I would think it means people did not know.

Or people really did chose to not register.

Until June 30th, the CADOJ is going after the obvious violations. After this date, then we get to hear the facts. If there are alot of cases where at ranges, or stores average people are being arrested for the old BB configurations with unregistered rifles, then the state should(but probably will not) start a campaign to tell owners they need to convert to featureless or fixed mag and have missed the registration deadline.
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  #113  
Old 06-13-2018, 3:06 PM
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I think the real argument that is ignored is how many people know to register? If the actual numbers are really low compared to the known number of DROS'd rifles, then I would think it means people did not know.

Or people really did chose to not register.

Until June 30th, the CADOJ is going after the obvious violations. After this date, then we get to hear the facts. If there are alot of cases where at ranges, or stores average people are being arrested for the old BB configurations with unregistered rifles, then the state should(but probably will not) start a campaign to tell owners they need to convert to featureless or fixed mag and have missed the registration deadline.
yep, soon there will be a case for removing BB.
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  #114  
Old 06-13-2018, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ej6fade View Post
Lots of people are ok with bending over and taking it
And being forced to use a grip wrap is not bending over?
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Old 06-13-2018, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by wopshooter View Post
And being forced to use a grip wrap is not bending over?
dont forget the mag lock.

separate the receivers then release the magazine, then brag about how fast they can do it
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Old 06-13-2018, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by stormtrooperx View Post
I think the current rate of registrations is about 150 weapons per day. I did a detailed analysis of my CRIS #'s, and the times they were generated, and across multiple CFARS accounts (because of joint registration).

The CRIS #'s do increase predictably, the average increment from my data was 7 (and ranged from 2-10, from a sample size of about 30). Day-to-day, they do increase by about 100K, but intra-day they only increase at about 45 / hour, so there's some weird discontinuities across days (do the math, 100K / day is over 4K / hour). 45 * 24 / 7 = 154 transactions a day.

Factors that my estimate is low:
- I'm assuming I'm the only user of the system, the actual avg. increment between CRIS #'s may be much less than 7 if many others are using system same time as me (but can't be too many others, gap is 2-10 and increment cannot be < 1, so 1-9 other users maximum).
- I'm sure as we get closer to deadline, traffic will increase.

Factors that my estimate is high:
- CRIS is used for things other than AW registration, like new resident report, C&R firearm report, etc... These don't seem like they'd be high volume though.
- Just because a CRIS # is generated, doesn't mean a weapon gets registered. I had many firearms in my cart, with #'s, that I had to throw out because when the webpage timed out it reset some things.

Overall, when the dust settles, I'm pretty certain at least several thousand firearms will have been registered, maybe even 10K or more (especially if there is a huge surge later this month, the way there was a huge rush of people buying their BB weapons right up until Christmas of 2016).
Wow, the important posts always go unnoticed. This is the first breakdown that makes any sense whatsoever. 100k a day? Please, we all thought 100k total was going to be a miracle.

Given the ease of registration during 89 and 00/01 and the fact that CA spent money airing commercials and passing out flyers at gun stores and it was basically a postcard open to anything (even bare receivers) and they only got 150k total in all those periods I have no hope that this system did anything but crash and burn. Judging by the LGS and range talk, no one even knows whats happening.

I'd take the under on 250k total.

Maybe we should re-evaluate the 2nd amendment to have a minimum IQ of 70 to participate?
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 06-13-2018, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
What if a court does decide that the BBs can come off? All the featureless geniuses will have irretrievably forfeited their chance at a full-featured, normal mag release semi-auto. There will be no going back.
And 26", don't forget. Never again be able to fold your rifle unless you reg some now. It's not exactly a normal rifle but it's closer.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #118  
Old 06-13-2018, 9:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
Two years from now we will be arguing if you can put a pistol grip back on a FAW "Featureless Assault Weapon". The CADOJ will argue you can't because it makes it a different "assault weapon".
Won't work with the "FAW" nomenclature because in 4 years they will open the "fixed-mag assault weapon" registration.

Maybe if they go with FMAW? Do you have RAW, BBAW, FAW, or FMAW?

Our only hope is MAGAW?
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 06-13-2018, 9:14 PM
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No way in hell will the 9th ever let you take your bullet button off. All that being said correct me if I'm wrong, once it's registered as a assault rifle, where does it say you couldn't use a magnet or something like it to help with mag changes? For what it's worth I would lean towards featureless and no registration.

Last edited by Rosamond; 06-13-2018 at 9:17 PM..
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  #120  
Old 06-13-2018, 9:18 PM
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All that being said correct me if I'm wrong, once it's registered as a assault rifle, where does it say you couldn't use a magnet or something like it to help with mag changes?
In the regulations.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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