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  #1  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:18 AM
nidm nidm is offline
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Default after fullsize - "ring" at the bottom

hi, folk,

is this normal? this is 308 after full size. thanks
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:25 AM
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Perfectly normal.
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:35 AM
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I concur
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  #4  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:49 AM
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I recommend testing them with the pin thing just to be sure.

But I will get those too as that section is where the brass is worked a lot.
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:13 PM
nidm nidm is offline
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folks,

thanks for the quick responds. so I won't worry too much.

BTW, I did the "pin-test" with the dental tool as MarikinaMan suggested above, and feel the brass is OK.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:18 PM
robert101 robert101 is offline
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Yes that is normal. Actually, the die looks like it is contacting a major portion of the case. That is good if you want to return the case to more of a SAAMI Standard. Otherwise, working the neck and shoulder to a lesser degree could provide results more favorable to better accuracy. It really depends on what gun and for what use you intend for your reloads.
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  #7  
Old 05-19-2020, 12:30 PM
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I got that when i switched from my lee carbide 9mm sizing die to the undersized sizing die
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  #8  
Old 05-19-2020, 1:42 PM
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Why undersized die? Normal should be fine. The ring looks a little tall. Is your die set all the way down against the shell holder? I run mine down until it touches then give it a little more so you can feel the handle has a little cam over feel.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2020, 1:47 PM
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OP, your cases are good. Normal and no worries.
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  #10  
Old 05-19-2020, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Why undersized die? Normal should be fine. The ring looks a little tall. Is your die set all the way down against the shell holder? I run mine down until it touches then give it a little more so you can feel the handle has a little cam over feel.
Thatís a great way to induce headspace separation.
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2020, 8:17 PM
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Not enough time in the food dehydrator?
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2020, 7:57 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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Quote:
is this normal? this is 308 after full size.
What does this mean?

Your shell holder has a deck height of .125" meaning the shell holder is not involved in sizing the case. Not all of the die is involved in sizing the case meaning the base of the die is larger in diameter then the base of the case. I have suggested the reloader turn the case around and stick the case head into the die. That would require the reloader to remove his hands from the key board or out of his pockets.

Anyhow I have reversed cases and shoved them into the die; as a rule all of the case heads fit into the open end of the die with very few exceptions, and for that I do not believe I will live long enough to explain what all that means.

Reloaders have gigs and gigs of space used up when talking about small base dies or the need for small base dies. I know no one want to hear about my small base die but I am the only reloaders with small base dies and I am the only one that can measure the base of the die for 'shortness'.

F. Guffey
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2020, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
Thatís a great way to induce headspace separation.
More like headcase separation,
OR more accurately case-head seperation...
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  #14  
Old 05-21-2020, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
Thatís a great way to induce headspace separation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
More like headcase separation,
OR more accurately case-head seperation...

Typically, I see case head separation occur if you sized cases with more than 0.005" shoulder bump.

In my early days of reloading, I did a whole batch of 6.5 creedmoor. I was getting case head separation on every shot. I packed up, went home, pulled a bullet and found that I had sized the cases with 0.007-0.008" shoulder bump. My setscrew on my die was not locked down There went 90+ cases and pulling the bullets and powder was not fun.
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2020, 5:53 AM
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Quote:
In my early days of reloading, I did a whole batch of 6.5 creedmoor. I was getting case head separation on every shot. I packed up, went home, pulled a bullet and found that I had sized the cases with 0.007-0.008" shoulder bump.
and then;

Quote:
My setscrew on my die was not locked down....
Because you are on the 'U.S. RIFLE TEAM' I believe I am allowed to disagree with you. If the locking nut gets loose and the die backs out the distance between the shoulder and case head increases. When that happens clearance is increased. As you should know I am the one that cannot move the shoulder back when sizing a case with a die that has full body support. I am the fan of off setting the length of the chamber with the length of the case.

F. Guffey

Last edited by fguffey; 05-22-2020 at 5:56 AM..
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  #16  
Old 05-22-2020, 7:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
and then;



Because you are on the 'U.S. RIFLE TEAM' I believe I am allowed to disagree with you. If the locking nut gets loose and the die backs out the distance between the shoulder and case head increases. When that happens clearance is increased. As you should know I am the one that cannot move the shoulder back when sizing a case with a die that has full body support. I am the fan of off setting the length of the chamber with the length of the case.

F. Guffey
I cannot follow your post...

If the distance between the shoulder and case head increases, then clearance is decreased in the chamber. The locking ring not being tight allows the die to move up and down.

You cannot set the length of the chamber (which is already cut) with the length of the case. You do it the other way around and size the case to your chamber.

Brass is very malleable. Brass will flow where it needs to flow and typically, brass flows upwards, hence the need for trimming. Happens all the time in FL sizing dies. Also, brass is not "fully supported" technically in a FL sizing die. The whole inside of the case is not supported.
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  #17  
Old 05-22-2020, 8:13 AM
J-cat J-cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the86d View Post
More like headcase separation,
OR more accurately case-head seperation...
Lol! not enough sleep
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2020, 10:47 AM
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Lightbulb

Interestingly enough, I remember seeing West German (MEM?) .308 brass looking that NEW back in the day. Not sure why...
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  #19  
Old 05-23-2020, 6:14 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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Quote:
You cannot set the length of the chamber (which is already cut) with the length of the case. You do it the other way around and size the case to your chamber.
I cut the 8mm/06 chambers with my reamer. I did nothing to the 8MM57 ammo, I chambered it and I fired it and was not surprise the cases did not come out the way reloaders thought they would. There was .127" clearance and the case did not suffer case head separation.

That is the reason long cases are my favorite cases, I purchase a rifle, I measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face; after that I start forming.

I off set the length of the chamber with the length of the case from the shoulder of the case to the case head.

Again: I have a M1917 with a chamber that is field reject length +.002”, that would be a chamber that is .016” longer than a minimum length/full length sized case or .011” longer than a go gage length chamber.

I off set the length of the chamber with 280 Remington cases, I adjust the die off the shell holder .014” and then start sizing/forming with a 30/06 forming die.

F. Guffey.
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  #20  
Old 05-23-2020, 6:33 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
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Quote:
Also, brass is not "fully supported" technically in a FL sizing die. The whole inside of the case is not supported.
Very good, that is the reason I say it is impossible to move the shoulder back when full length sizing with a die that has case body support. And then there is that thing with bumping.

The outside of the case is supported 100%, and then the case is empty, the inside of the case is not supported except by the case body itself, if the case is not supported on the outside when being sized the case will collapse. part if the collapse in inward and part of the collapse is outward, meaning the case is turned into something that looks an accordion a thermostat with bellows. To understand you would have to crawl under an old Volkswagen in the winter.

F. Guffey

I can move the shoulder of the case back and at the same time I can shorten the case from the shoulder to the case head; problem I can not do it with a die that has full case body support.
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  #21  
Old 05-23-2020, 6:38 AM
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OK, Joe.
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