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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 72 8.08%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 603 67.68%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 19 2.13%
I paid too much for my Membership! 40 4.49%
They will go out of business this year! 22 2.47%
Don't want anything to do with them! 135 15.15%
Voters: 891. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4961  
Old 01-29-2015, 7:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Hookalakupua View Post
I'm your Huckleberry!



How do you want to go about this? Meet at FS?

I think all three of my sons can take him on
They went through FS at 12/14/17
My wife could even, and she don't like shooting
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  #4962  
Old 01-29-2015, 8:58 AM
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If you guys want to go seek him out on whatever forum that is fine. Friendly contest are all well and good, but keep it fun please or take it elsewhere.

Since we asked him to take his comments elsewhere already please go find him to banter or just let it drop here.
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  #4963  
Old 01-29-2015, 10:00 AM
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Do the weekend course's start on Friday or Saturday? Im going to take my first class next month just need to know if it actually starts on Friday?
'Weekend' courses start mostly on Fridays... but a rare few sometimes start on Saturday or even Sunday... However, I've also noticed that a course that started on Sat or Sun has also been listed as a 'Midweek' course. I once commented once to FS, but no one ever responded about it... always made me wonder if that was done on purpose for some reason.

Best to just check the posted schedule. I took a skill builder that was Sat/Sun last year and just took another skill builder that was Sun/Mon earlier this month.
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  #4964  
Old 01-29-2015, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AlleninLA View Post
'Weekend' courses start mostly on Fridays... but a rare few sometimes start on Saturday or even Sunday... However, I've also noticed that a course that started on Sat or Sun has also been listed as a 'Midweek' course. I once commented once to FS, but no one ever responded about it... always made me wonder if that was done on purpose for some reason.



Best to just check the posted schedule. I took a skill builder that was Sat/Sun last year and just took another skill builder that was Sun/Mon earlier this month.

Saturday starts are usually "advanced" classes or skill builders and appear to be to accommodate scheduling. He said he's going for the first time. Means no matter what discipline he's going to be in a basic defensive class. That's going to be a Friday start.


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  #4965  
Old 01-29-2015, 11:01 AM
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The rare Saturday starting classes are packed too, I like a bunch of others try to minimize vacation day losses as much as possible. But almost always tge 4 day intro classes start either on a Friday or traditionally Sunday with the CCW in Thursday. However I have seen a lot more starting on Mondays with the CCW on Friday. This last HG class I took was over MLK weekend with first day starting on Monday. The turn out was ok, but nowhere near what it has been in the past. I would say there was a bit over 200 handgun nerd for 2/4 day handgun and probably 40ish for rifle and 30ish for 4 weapons.
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  #4966  
Old 01-29-2015, 11:43 AM
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Is there a reason why FS does not have a single shared calendar date for 2 day handgun skill builder & 2 day defensive HG?

My wife and I are planning our 2nd trip. I want to take the skill builder and she wants to repeat the 2DDH. We both took the 4DDH our first trip. I don't suppose I could convince FS to accommodate this scheduling request?

Assuming they wouldn't, can anyone shed light on the skill builder course and how my wife might do? She is a total noob. After the 4DDH, she had the competency to draw, fire, and keep all her rounds on paper out to 7 yards without any time pressure. Note I said on paper, not necessarily on target... She also received a lot of 1 on 1 attention from the instructors as she really needed it.

Will she get buried and overwhelmed in the skill builder?
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  #4967  
Old 01-29-2015, 12:06 PM
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Pretty much, the skillbuilder is the 4 day course shooting skills compressed into two days. It is a lot faster paced because of this. It is doable when newer but can be very stressful if your trying to keep up, especially after lunch on day one, you'll shoot from concealment. Best bet is to request an end target as to stay stationary (they go to rotating targets in the skillbuilder course) and go at your pace from the beginning of day one.

Last edited by DSMeyer; 01-29-2015 at 12:13 PM..
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  #4968  
Old 01-29-2015, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdDeadHands1 View Post
Is there a reason why FS does not have a single shared calendar date for 2 day handgun skill builder & 2 day defensive HG?

My wife and I are planning our 2nd trip. I want to take the skill builder and she wants to repeat the 2DDH. We both took the 4DDH our first trip. I don't suppose I could convince FS to accommodate this scheduling request?
that is the #1 problem I have with FS. the limited scheduling options.

we have some people that need to do a 4DHG class while another wants to retake the 4D rifle class. I'd like to go with them but I would rather retake the 4DSG class or try something else. we want to go as a group for the enjoyment and the cost savings by ride and room sharing, but I've already DG'ed both pistol and rifle and would rather do something else. I'll probably end up doing HG support side to at least make it interesting.

Quote:

Assuming they wouldn't, can anyone shed light on the skill builder course and how my wife might do? She is a total noob. After the 4DDH, she had the competency to draw, fire, and keep all her rounds on paper out to 7 yards without any time pressure. Note I said on paper, not necessarily on target... She also received a lot of 1 on 1 attention from the instructors as she really needed it.

Will she get buried and overwhelmed in the skill builder?
she might. the Skill builder class is normally run completely on turning targets so there is time pressure. she can have them pin a target for her to use that won't turn so that she can wouldn't have to worry about that.
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  #4969  
Old 01-29-2015, 1:28 PM
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Another trick she can do is to sign up for the four day. On day 2 let them know she can't stay passed the end of the day and they should give a cert for the two day class. Let them know early enough though.


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  #4970  
Old 01-29-2015, 1:32 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoomedman View Post
Another trick she can do is to sign up for the four day. On day 2 let them know she can't stay passed the end of the day and they should give a cert for the two day class. Let them know early enough though.


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that would work for her if they scheduled a 4DHG class to start on the same day as the 2DSB that he would take, but they normally don't.
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  #4971  
Old 01-29-2015, 1:59 PM
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that would work for her if they scheduled a 4DHG class to start on the same day as the 2DSB that he would take, but they normally don't.

Correct. But if you aren't looking for a specific date.

He can do the night course on July 2nd which are actually both of what he wants. The skill builder and the two day. Have to have done the same course during the daytime though.

Otherwise SOL it looks like. Just do the skill builder and ask for a pinned target until she gets her groove.

And to answer the question why they do that... There are all the theories about keeping attendance down in the non bread and butter basic classes. But also I think it has a lot to do with turning targets. Turning targets are only on ranges 1-8. Four day class is down there the first two days. Skill builder is down there and uses turning targets. Two day is down there and advance classes use the turning targets. It could be rectified by putting the 2 day and/or 4 day completely on phase 2 since turning targets aren't used but I think it's also logistics and time savings with stacked 2 and 4 day classes as well as being close to the classroom for lectures.


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  #4972  
Old 01-29-2015, 2:25 PM
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Anybody know if in (formerly Advanced) Tactical Handgun course they still offer the night class on the 1st day?




This might be my last FS class. Too many non FS classes, wife getting p***ed!
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  #4973  
Old 01-29-2015, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Anybody know if in (formerly Advanced) Tactical Handgun course they still offer the night class on the 1st day?




This might be my last FS class. Too many non FS classes, wife getting p***ed!

I believe so. Breezin just went. Maybe he'll chime in. The recap is a few pages back.

I hear you about the classes. I think it's time to do some more local ones and be selective about FS. The thing is it's easy to get a pass for FS because it's "free". I have to break it down for her though. I might be spending money on tuition for a local class but I'm not spending on gas and lodging etc. And weekend classes actually start on Saturday so no needing childcare and all that mess.


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  #4974  
Old 01-29-2015, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoomedman View Post
I believe so. Breezin just went. Maybe he'll chime in. The recap is a few pages back.

I hear you about the classes. I think it's time to do some more local ones and be selective about FS. The thing is it's easy to get a pass for FS because it's "free". I have to break it down for her though. I might be spending money on tuition for a local class but I'm not spending on gas and lodging etc. And weekend classes actually start on Saturday so no needing childcare and all that mess.


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Yup, in the end it was the FS class curriculum and graduation path that killed it for me.

This is how I broke the costs down:

Plane tickets $80 x 2 = $160 --- maybe less if I drive, depending on which car I take, but the time to drive from the Bay Area can be costly too.
Lodging $70 x 2 nights=$140 --- Pahrump of course
Rental car (w/o gas)= $80 --- gas costs not counted since I still have to pay gas for a local class

Total = $380
Now, for a 2 day class, I am forced to miss one day of work.

A local class costs $300-$575 depending on the name of the instructor.

The real question is how much money do I lose by missing a day of work? At the worst case scenario, the $575/weekend class is ~$200 over FS costs. I lose way more than $200/day of income if I skip work.
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  #4975  
Old 01-29-2015, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Yup, in the end it was the FS class curriculum and graduation path that killed it for me.



This is how I broke the costs down:



Plane tickets $80 x 2 = $160 --- maybe less if I drive, depending on which car I take, but the time to drive from the Bay Area can be costly too.

Lodging $70 x 2 nights=$140 --- Pahrump of course

Rental car (w/o gas)= $80 --- gas costs not counted since I still have to pay gas for a local class



Total = $380

Now, for a 2 day class, I am forced to miss one day of work.



A local class costs $300-$575 depending on the name of the instructor.



The real question is how much money do I lose by missing a day of work? At the worst case scenario, the $575/weekend class is ~$200 over FS costs. I lose way more than $200/day of income if I skip work.

Yep. FS is great if you are local or if you group it. It's not bad for us SoCal folk. We go and camp or find a cheap spot. It's about the same as the RV's eat so much gas. Either way we get to split the costs. It's worth it to do that or take the kids to that class.

Just not worth it to go alone and hit up a basic class or the not worth it anymore tactical class. I'll still go but grab my DG in rifle and Shotgun so I can do scenarios. I know HCM is supposed to be good too. Basic classes are great for those who need it and also as a refresher if going as a group. The top end fun stuff seems worth it PO but so much damn rigamoroll in order to get into those classes.


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  #4976  
Old 01-29-2015, 4:15 PM
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yup, SoCal with a group is cheap,

2-day class
$80 fuel
$140 lodging
$220 total divided 2-4 ways. $55-110 for a 2-day class is nothing.

4-day class
$80 fuel
$240 lodging
$320 total divided 2-4 ways. $80-160 for 40-days is great.

and with us in SoCal, we can drive up after work and drive home right after class and not miss any extra days for travel. we still miss 1-2 days off of work for "weekend" classes, but I have plenty of comp and PTO time that I have to use so why not use it for training.
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  #4977  
Old 01-29-2015, 4:41 PM
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The only persons I take to FS regularly are my wife, so instead of splitting the costs, I double them; and my brother from TX, who snores like a bull, so no way I am sharing a room with him LOL


Yea, FS is ideal if you're in SoCal. Even their no-steel-ammo policy is SoCal
What is it, 3 hr drive from the Greater LA Area?
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  #4978  
Old 01-29-2015, 4:49 PM
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If you guys want to go seek him out on whatever forum that is fine. Friendly contest are all well and good, but keep it fun please or take it elsewhere.

Since we asked him to take his comments elsewhere already please go find him to banter or just let it drop here.
Thank you. Sound advice.
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  #4979  
Old 01-29-2015, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
The only persons I take to FS regularly are my wife, so instead of splitting the costs, I double them; and my brother from TX, who snores like a bull, so no way I am sharing a room with him LOL


Yea, FS is ideal if you're in SoCal. Even their no-steel-ammo policy is SoCal
What is it, 3 hr drive from the Greater LA Area?

Even though taking my wife doesn't share in costs it does make it so I don't have to pay double tuition at a local school. Still come out ahead financially. Going alone doesn't make sense.

But forgoing an advanced class somewhere else and going to a basic FS class I can sleep through and DG doesn't make sense just because it's free. Good to refresh basics occasionally but I'm going to go for a specific purpose and not just because it's free.

Yeah it's a 3 hour drive from the Ontario, Chino, Corona, Pomona area.


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  #4980  
Old 01-29-2015, 6:33 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Anybody know if in (formerly Advanced) Tactical Handgun course they still offer the night class on the 1st day?




This might be my last FS class. Too many non FS classes, wife getting p***ed!
The last adv HG class I took with breezin had the night shoot as well as both scenarios. one of the scenarios was at night on day 1. But who knows, dr p keeps changing the curriculum as he sees fit it seems.
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  #4981  
Old 01-29-2015, 7:42 PM
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The last adv HG class I took with breezin had the night shoot as well as both scenarios. one of the scenarios was at night on day 1. But who knows, dr p keeps changing the curriculum as he sees fit it seems.
Night shoot scenario?!?

Or did I just read it too fast?
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  #4982  
Old 01-29-2015, 8:41 PM
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Night shoot scenario?!?

Or did I just read it too fast?

Don't count on it. Only because they keep jacking with stuff. When I went it didn't have it. But when I did advanced integrated then it did. Then the instructor was getting on me about my light usage while pieing the door. Said I should have done it in the tactical night shoot. I told him that we didn't do shoot houses in the tactical night shoot. Almost like he didn't believe me.

The scenarios are the real ticket but I'm sure expensive and not money makers from us with memberships.


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  #4983  
Old 01-29-2015, 8:41 PM
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Night shoot scenario?!?

Or did I just read it too fast?
You read right. Surprised me also, but what an experience that actually related to advanced tactics. I really hope it stays included.
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  #4984  
Old 01-30-2015, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by voodoomedman View Post
I'll still go but grab my DG in rifle and Shotgun so I can do scenarios.
just did scenario few weeks ago.

zero long gun used.

airsoft handgun only

fired may be 40 BBs in 2 days.

pace is very slow.

I wouldn't do scenario again......
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  #4985  
Old 01-30-2015, 9:34 AM
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Originally Posted by voodoomedman View Post
Yeah it's a 3 hour drive from the Ontario, Chino, Corona, Pomona area.
that's where I am. I only take 2 day classes (due to work).

leave on the morning of class around 4:15am. almost always get to FS by 7:30am after a fuel stop and breakfast stop in Barstow.

come home right after the class. usually makes it home by 8:30pm (more traffic driving back).

I have a hybrid, so fuel cost is about $25 round trip. plus $70 for 1 night of hotel.

Last edited by bellwilliam; 01-30-2015 at 9:36 AM..
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Old 01-30-2015, 9:39 AM
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I only have few classes left I want to take:

2 day long gun - taking it in 2 weeks. hopefully it is a good class. anybody ?

Advanced Tactical Handgun - took this once, missed to DG by 1 point !!! I need to DG this so I can take 2 day HCM.

2 day HCM - can't take 4 day HCM......too much time off work.
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  #4987  
Old 01-30-2015, 11:23 AM
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Not sure if this was posted yet

https://www.frontsight.com/honor/
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  #4988  
Old 01-30-2015, 11:34 AM
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Not sure if this was posted yet

https://www.frontsight.com/honor/
I've only received about 50 emails so far...
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:51 AM
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I've only received about 50 emails so far...
Yeah they go to a special folder. I only look on occasion.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
just did scenario few weeks ago.



zero long gun used.



airsoft handgun only



fired may be 40 BBs in 2 days.



pace is very slow.



I wouldn't do scenario again......

Damn. That sucks. Looks cool but it used to be simunitions. When did you do it last? Quality is going down on anything other than 4 day handgun, skill builder, or HCM. Kids class is good too. Ropes may be fun. I've heard good about martial arts but we did the 2 day integrated handgun and it sucked. I'm hoping that after all the tweeking they get things fixed. Poor scheduling I can deal with if the class is worth it.


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Old 01-30-2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
that's where I am. I only take 2 day classes (due to work).

leave on the morning of class around 4:15am. almost always get to FS by 7:30am after a fuel stop and breakfast stop in Barstow.

come home right after the class. usually makes it home by 8:30pm (more traffic driving back).

I have a hybrid, so fuel cost is about $25 round trip. plus $70 for 1 night of hotel.

Crap I think I'm going with you next time.


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Old 01-30-2015, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
I only have few classes left I want to take:

2 day long gun - taking it in 2 weeks. hopefully it is a good class. anybody ?

Advanced Tactical Handgun - took this once, missed to DG by 1 point !!! I need to DG this so I can take 2 day HCM.

2 day HCM - can't take 4 day HCM......too much time off work.

That's cool that you can do that now so you can just go do two day HCM. After doing ropes for fun etc then maybe I'll just stick to HCM for core training and go elsewhere for tactics. Such a waste though. Nobody else but police academies etc. have all those simulators.


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Old 01-30-2015, 12:34 PM
bellwilliam bellwilliam is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoomedman View Post
Damn. That sucks. Looks cool but it used to be simunitions. When did you do it last? Quality is going down on anything other than 4 day handgun, skill builder, or HCM. Kids class is good too. Ropes may be fun. I've heard good about martial arts but we did the 2 day integrated handgun and it sucked. I'm hoping that after all the tweeking they get things fixed. Poor scheduling I can deal with if the class is worth it.


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I did Scenario class on 1/14/15. 2 weeks ago.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:45 PM
voodoomedman voodoomedman is offline
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I did Scenario class on 1/14/15. 2 weeks ago.

Hope it gets fixed. And for Petes sake go bake to simunitions. I personally wouldn't mind paying to rent the crap. I'm sure airsoft can be useful such as a blue gun can but you need the real thing. I'm guessing there would be a lot of goofing off with airsoft. Simunitions makes it real. I know of cop training where people get hit and it takes them out mentally. Like they drop and lay there rather than stay in the fight.

Also the marking lets you know how you really faired in the battle.

Not only the videos but I've talked to instructors. There used to be fights down I. The tunnels etc. too.

Had a buddy who did advanced integrated years back and they did the ATM scenario and a bunch of other real world stuff. Nope not done when we took it. Shooting from the Volvo was neat and also the wilson truck. But I want more of that.


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Last edited by voodoomedman; 01-30-2015 at 2:05 PM..
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  #4995  
Old 02-02-2015, 10:42 AM
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meyerlemony meyerlemony is offline
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that's where I am. I only take 2 day classes (due to work).

leave on the morning of class around 4:15am. almost always get to FS by 7:30am after a fuel stop and breakfast stop in Barstow.

come home right after the class. usually makes it home by 8:30pm (more traffic driving back).

I have a hybrid, so fuel cost is about $25 round trip. plus $70 for 1 night of hotel.
Sounds about right. I'm usually home by 9 / 9:30 depending on traffic, I'm in Burbank. I don't do morning of, though - I'm just not that much of a morning person, so I drive out the night before after work. Adds a hotel night, but not too bad.
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  #4996  
Old 02-02-2015, 6:34 PM
dok dok is offline
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I am new to the shotgun thing but would like opinions on weather the front site program and specifically the skills test is better served with bead sites,ghost rings or rifle type dovetails.I did search the archives but I found nothing that addressed this issue-thanks
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Old 02-02-2015, 7:12 PM
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I am new to the shotgun thing but would like opinions on weather the front site program and specifically the skills test is better served with bead sites,ghost rings or rifle type dovetails.I did search the archives but I found nothing that addressed this issue-thanks
Lots of successful folks with bead sights and ghost ring sights.
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Old 02-02-2015, 8:26 PM
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I am new to the shotgun thing but would like opinions on weather the front site program and specifically the skills test is better served with bead sites,ghost rings or rifle type dovetails.I did search the archives but I found nothing that addressed this issue-thanks
I run a old 870 duck gun converted over with a 18" rifle sighted barrel. Works great for me.
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Old 02-03-2015, 8:37 AM
Larryect Larryect is offline
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I am new to the shotgun thing but would like opinions on weather the front site program and specifically the skills test is better served with bead sites,ghost rings or rifle type dovetails.I did search the archives but I found nothing that addressed this issue-thanks
I used and really liked the stock sights on my Mossberg 930 SPX, which is ghost ring rear and fiber optic front sights.

Guy next to me was using a bead and doing good. But, he had to compensate for the point of aim for the whole class since bead sight is not adjustable. You need to be able to make hits on silhouette targets with slugs out to 50 yards.
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Old 02-03-2015, 11:09 AM
ronson ronson is offline
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The new Scenarios class is Airsoft? They were making so much noise last year about their vendor with laser SIRT guns, laser vests with electric shock... Was that all BS?

I've done the simunition version quite a few times, but I'd really rather not have to wear all that expensive, hot, suffocating protective gear. and I saw quite a few people take wounds that have to raise liability concerns for mgmt
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