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  #1  
Old 09-22-2017, 9:19 AM
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Default The Infancy Gospels of Jesus

I saw a reference to this in another reading and found it quite interesting.

Not much is known about Jesus in his early years (before 12) but this record gives us some stories about the young Jesus and some of his early miracles, including raising the dead.

Here is a link to what I read:

http://gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2017, 3:31 PM
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If it's not in the Protestant Bible, it isn't truth. Lots of extra-biblical garbage floating around. We ignore it.

2 Peter 1:3 says we have all things pertaining to life and godliness in the Bible.


Bill
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Old 09-22-2017, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
If it's not in the Protestant Bible, it isn't truth. Lots of extra-biblical garbage floating around. We ignore it.

Bill
This is like going into a Subway and ordering a Turkey and cheese sandwich plain and then declaring there are no other ingredients.
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Old 09-22-2017, 8:07 PM
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Pretty much a non-starter. Gnostic Gospels are false gospel. Do yourself s favor and don't entertain what is published as Gnostic work. It will only lead you astray. For a more biblical answer see Bill's post above.
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Old 09-23-2017, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
If it's not in the Protestant Bible, it isn't truth. Lots of extra-biblical garbage floating around. We ignore it.
2 Peter 1:3 says we have all things pertaining to life and godliness in the Bible.
Bill
Wow. It's not like it is contradicting anything in the Bible. It is some info that is not in the Bible.
Not truth?....Biblical garbage? ...and you know this how?
It seems like a "Don't confuse me with facts" situation here with you Bill.

BTW, 2 Peter 1:3 doesn't mention the Bible that I could find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Pretty much a non-starter. Gnostic Gospels are false gospel. Do yourself s favor and don't entertain what is published as Gnostic work. It will only lead you astray. For a more biblical answer see Bill's post above.
So, the so called Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library that have ancient writings about those days are all "Biblical garbage" and false?
Those that wrote them were purposely writing down lies and falsehoods?
I don't think so. Why would they do that?

Thanks for the replies.
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  #6  
Old 09-23-2017, 9:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
Wow. It's not like it is contradicting anything in the Bible. It is some info that is not in the Bible.
Not truth?....Biblical garbage? ...and you know this how?
It seems like a "Don't confuse me with facts" situation here with you Bill.

BTW, 2 Peter 1:3 doesn't mention the Bible that I could find.



So, the so called Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library that have ancient writings about those days are all "Biblical garbage" and false?
Those that wrote them were purposely writing down lies and falsehoods?
I don't think so. Why would they do that?

Thanks for the replies.

Have you studied the Canonicity of the Bible? Do you know the history of the books we have and don't have - and why? Have you studied the inspiration and authority of Scripture - and what the Bible says about it? What about textual Criticism? Studied that? Of course, to be as defensive as you are, I assume you're well versed in ancient Greek and Hebrew and know how analyze the textual variations that mentioned for each verse? And the list goes on. Just a few tools needed to ascertain if additional writings should be considered the authoritative Word of God.

IOW, just checking the size and caliber of the guns you bring to the fight.

God bless,
Bill
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by billvau View Post
Have you studied the Canonicity of the Bible? Do you know the history of the books we have and don't have - and why? Have you studied the inspiration and authority of Scripture - and what the Bible says about it? What about textual Criticism? Studied that? Of course, to be as defensive as you are, I assume you're well versed in ancient Greek and Hebrew and know how analyze the textual variations that mentioned for each verse? And the list goes on. Just a few tools needed to ascertain if additional writings should be considered the authoritative Word of God.

IOW, just checking the size and caliber of the guns you bring to the fight.

God bless,
Bill
Geez Bill, calm down.
Fight?
I asked some questions and you accuse me of being defensive?
Then instead of answering the questions I asked you get defensive and rattle off a semi "wall of text" with your questions.
Have you done this or studied that or am I versed in Hebrew or Greek, etc., etc.,............

Maybe someone else here will engage in a calm, constructive conversion or have you run them all off with your holier than thou attitude.
Cheesh!
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:00 AM
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2 Tim 3:16-17
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  #9  
Old 09-23-2017, 1:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
Geez Bill, calm down.
Fight?
I asked some questions and you accuse me of being defensive?
Then instead of answering the questions I asked you get defensive and rattle off a semi "wall of text" with your questions.
Have you done this or studied that or am I versed in Hebrew or Greek, etc., etc.,............

Maybe someone else here will engage in a calm, constructive conversion or have you run them all off with your holier than thou attitude.
Cheesh!
Thats' an axiom, a saying. You know it's not a literal expression. If you took "fight" as literal, then why didn't you tell me what size and caliber gun you brought?

Nice try on redirecting so you didn't have to answer honest questions.

Seems you jumped on two of us responders first. So, asking if you're qualified to discuss is fair. And, yes, I can answer all those questions affirmatively.

Thanks,
Bill
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Old 09-23-2017, 9:15 PM
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The two earliest and still existing heresies are Gnosticism and Arianism. They have their take but they are not orthodox. None of their books were written by the Apostles and therefore we do not accept them a canon. If you wish to hold to them there is nobody stopping you. However, they are not part of the canon of Christianity and we have no reason whatsoever to accept them as true.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:28 PM
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The gnostic (the word means knowledge) writings were about gaining a secret knowledge that would give the person power over every one else around them. It was a philosophy of elitism and rulership.

Pretty much the opposite of what the Christians gospels were trying to teach!

The Christian virtues such as charity, humility, temperance, faith in the unseen, are the very things which the Gnostic were trying to learn how to live without.

Christianity and Gnosticism are direct opposites, 180 degrees out of phase. Old and ancient enemies.
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Old 09-24-2017, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billvau View Post
If it's not in the Protestant Bible, it isn't truth. Lots of extra-biblical garbage floating around. We ignore it.

2 Peter 1:3 says we have all things pertaining to life and godliness in the Bible.


Bill

around the 1600's is when the emergence of the protestant bible was introduced by the reformers who revised the original texts from the catholic
church -- they broke away from the authority of the catholic church. the protestant bible is missing books -- i would suggest grabbing a catholic bible
and comparing it to the books that your protestant bible doesn't have. There are a lot of great things to learn. a big one is purgatory in 2 maccabees
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric91 View Post
around the 1600's is when the emergence of the protestant bible was introduced by the reformers who revised the original texts from the catholic
church -- they broke away from the authority of the catholic church. the protestant bible is missing books -- i would suggest grabbing a catholic bible
and comparing it to the books that your protestant bible doesn't have. There are a lot of great things to learn. a big one is purgatory in 2 maccabees
It's not missing books. They left out the Apocrypha which the Hebrews do not consider inspired. They are good for historical reference but not inspired. Since they are not inspired there is no reason to have them in the canon. The great divide between Rome and the Protestants is Imputation. Since the Apocrypha is not inspired there is no reason to believe a thing like Purgatory. Neither Jesus, nor the Apostle's ever referenced Purgatory. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise that very day. Paul says that when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord. Jesus said, "it is finished" on the cross. Therefore there is no need for Purgatory and we certainly have no need for "pope" to grant us indulgences to get us out early. And if he had the ability then why would he be so cruel to leave anyone there? Because it is untrue and unnecessary and proof that following uninspired books is not useful. Thus the Protestants dumped them. They are not missing.
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Old 09-24-2017, 10:42 AM
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You would be right if they werent inspired by the Holy spirit -- but they were inspired! The Holy spirit descended on the infant church never to leave it. Well since the books were removed they are missing.

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Old 09-24-2017, 12:19 PM
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No. The Apocrypha were not inspired. They are pre New Testament and the Hebrews did not hold them as inspired either. Since they are not inspired by the Holy Spirit they are not missing. They are removed.
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:21 PM
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I understand what you are saying now and yes im sorry ... your right as far as the apocrypha being pre new testament but the magestirum of the catholic church consideres them part of the full canon.

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Old 09-24-2017, 12:29 PM
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You are correct. They do.
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Old 09-24-2017, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric91 View Post
around the 1600's is when the emergence of the protestant bible was introduced by the reformers who revised the original texts from the catholic
church -- they broke away from the authority of the catholic church. the protestant bible is missing books -- i would suggest grabbing a catholic bible
and comparing it to the books that your protestant bible doesn't have. There are a lot of great things to learn. a big one is purgatory in 2 maccabees
RAMCLAP answered correctly. I only called it the "Protestant Bible" because of the competing RCC Bible. We just call it "The Bible" and most people forget that the vast majority of the Bible was settled on at the time of Jesus! It's called the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible. Paul knew his writings were authoritative (1 Cor. 14:37) and the letters from him and the other authors of the NT circulated quickly. Did you know that right after the turn of the first century that the books of the NT were known and the list written down?

We, so often, just look at this from man's perspective. The Holy Spirit has been working through history to ensure that what we have is what He wants us to have! True Christians knew the inspired texts in their day because they were either written by an Apostle of Christ or a close disciple of an Apostle. BUT, even then, Christians knew that not all of their letters were inspired. We know from the Corinthian letters that Paul wrote at least two other letters to them. But, the Holy Spirit never intended them to be inspired and part of the Canon. The Holy Spirit has done His work and we have the Bible He intended.

The story of the Canon of Scripture is fascinating because it is the story of how the Holy Spirit worked through men to bring us the Bible. To a Christian today, it is easy to pick up a book and quickly KNOW that it is not inspired. This is because the Holy Spirit works in us, even now, to "illumine" us in the truth, and protect us from error.

Have a blessed Sunday!
Bill
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Old 09-27-2017, 1:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
I saw a reference to this in another reading and found it quite interesting.

Not much is known about Jesus in his early years (before 12) but this record gives us some stories about the young Jesus and some of his early miracles, including raising the dead.

Here is a link to what I read:

http://gnosis.org/library/inftoma.htm

Thoughts?
Thoughts regarding "The Infancy Gospel of Thomas": it was NOT written by Thomas, it does NOT contain the gospel of Christ, and it is NOT part of the Scriptures. No reason to read it; but a lot of reasons to NOT read it.

Absolute BEST-case scenario: it MAY contain some sayings of Christ with a lot of "lies and junk"; most LIKELY-scenario: it's nothing but a book of lies that misleads people about Who Christ really is and what He's actually like.
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Regarding Life and Death:
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Old 10-02-2017, 9:44 PM
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Extra historical writings, either OT or NT, can at best be considered fokelore, and discerning between fact and fiction is as difficult as separrating the pepper from the fly poop. It's best to leave it alone,IMO.
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