Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > SPECIALTY FORUMS > Calguns LEOs
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Calguns LEOs LEOs; chat, kibitz and relax. Non-LEOs; have a questions for a cop? Ask it here, in a CIVIL manner.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-09-2016, 1:30 PM
r6guy85 r6guy85 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 451
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default Ok here's a question for the veterans, OGs, people with seniority

Giving that times are ever changing in law enforcement and its training, policies and so forth. Do you guys with time on the department notice a change in the new trainees coming out of the academy? Are your department traditions still instilled upon new trainees? For ex: having to earn things on the job like wearing long sleeves, being able to work out on duty, wearing a certain holster or different gun, keep hair short until you have time on? Is this tradition fading?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-09-2016, 1:50 PM
Petee Petee is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Hawthorne, Ca
Posts: 45
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

I believe that the probationary period is still a time when the new officers are compliant with all of the traditions. They are trying to fit in and make their way through the FTO program and probation without creating any waves. But as soon as probation is over they know that they are off the hook. So as a senior member of the department you can either mentor and guide these young officers into what your department policing philosophy is about or you can alienate them like we did in the past. I understand both because I was alienated as a young officer and alienated younger officers then me. But being that it is very hard to find a good quality candidate to even get hired, make it through the academy and training that there is a very fine balancing act that needs to occur that the right amount of discipline is instilled without totally alienating this new officer who we are are supposed care about and protect. What this looks like keeps changing and everyone I speak to can't tell me exactly what it looks like. Sorry for the long answer but YES TRADITION IS FADING!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-09-2016, 5:24 PM
Rico911 Rico911 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 230
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Deep question, deeper answers....

I think there is a diffrent work ethic with people in their early twenties today. Numerous variables/exposures during upbringing that didn't exist with previous generations.

I was born in the mid seventies and was deffinitely raised by television. SWAT, 240 Robert, Magnum PI, Fall Guy, Threes company etc....I'm sure that had an affect.

No imagine growing up with the television of ten or fifteen years ago or having unsupervised access to the web??? The effects are unquestionable. This I believe forms the pesona of todays recruits. How many of them are obsessed with taking selfies? "Hey look at me" "See how important I am". Violence in media and video games also take a toll on how one values others.

Also, these young kids playing hours of Call of Duty are learning how to shoot and move very effectively. I had some sims training recently, opposing force were teenage kids of the instructors. They were very effective with no formal training. But that's another topic.....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-09-2016, 6:24 PM
1CavScout's Avatar
1CavScout 1CavScout is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SoCal / AZ
Posts: 3,234
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

When I was a training officer in the 90's the trainees had to earn certain things. They ate in the car, They took all paper on the beat, they took all priorities in the city if they were 10-8, they did not have casual conversations with others unless their TO's approved etc...

Training was very much like the military at my station. Not all stations were like this, but as the busiest station we had certain traditions. We also had a fairly high washout rate. Many were moved to slower stations and passed training.

By the early 2000's all that was changing. The department went after the old school TO's that would not change, and a lot of them were moved out of patrol. Trainees crying about being hazed and being worked too hard had changed the way training was conducted. I can only imagine what it's like today.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-09-2016, 7:15 PM
I Swan's Avatar
I Swan I Swan is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,778
iTrader: 70 / 100%
Default

Reminds me of the hazing and traditions of the military and the loss of some of those traditions for better or worse. I went through some of it but not to a high degree. PC behavior had already curtailed much of that but it still went on somewhat.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-09-2016, 8:49 PM
micro911's Avatar
micro911 micro911 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: LOS ANGELES COUNTY
Posts: 2,347
iTrader: 98 / 100%
Default

When you are cold, you wear long sleeve, when your hair gets long, you cut it. You wear department approved equipment. If you are authorized and trained with a firearm of your choice, you use it. Why would anyone restrict things like that?

I know a deputy played tough wearing a short sleeve shirt in the winter. He refused to wear a long sleeve or jacket. I don't know why, but I guess he may wanted to show he is tough. He eventually got pneumonia. That is pretty stupid in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-09-2016, 9:39 PM
roostersgt roostersgt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 5200'
Posts: 1,921
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1CavScout View Post
When I was a training officer in the 90's the trainees had to earn certain things. They ate in the car, They took all paper on the beat, they took all priorities in the city if they were 10-8, they did not have casual conversations with others unless their TO's approved etc...

Training was very much like the military at my station. Not all stations were like this, but as the busiest station we had certain traditions. We also had a fairly high washout rate. Many were moved to slower stations and passed training.

By the early 2000's all that was changing. The department went after the old school TO's that would not change, and a lot of them were moved out of patrol. Trainees crying about being hazed and being worked too hard had changed the way training was conducted. I can only imagine what it's like today.
Almost exactly my same experiences, scary. I retired and now work the "paddy wagon" on swings. I love the work ethic and enthusiasm of the new guys on my shift. My department is very selective in who they hire, so I'm not that surprised by the high caliber of deputies we have. I'm still impressed though, because I know when I was a youngster we often slacked off after 2am (when it slowed) and held court over tacos etc.... The times and traditions have changed though. Our trainees and new guys are still kept on the short leash, even after they're done training, by the senior guys. Peer pressure and seniority is still a *****. Our toughest FTO's still have the utmost respect from both our command staff, and their supervisors, and if someone isn't cutting it, they're washed, period.

No more shift parties after work etc... Camaraderie lacks in that sense, but nowadays the DUI laws and public perception trump everything. All for the good, I guess.

Last edited by roostersgt; 02-09-2016 at 9:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-09-2016, 9:50 PM
bobboberson bobboberson is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 72
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

As a new officer I have a little different perspective on this topic. I do believe that tradition is fading but it's a combination of factors. Every station has a different set of traditions.
Unfortunately I didn't do any of my field training at my station because the FTO at my station had transferred. As a result when I started solo I knew nothing about my beat, partners, or our traditions. I screwed aloooooot of stuff up. At one point one of my partners told me ,"for the first 6 months I worked here I thought about quitting all the time". That was the closest thing to help I got. Most of the time my partners just didn't talk to me. So I continued to try to be the best officer I could possibly be.
Fast forward over a year and I'm finally getting **** right and doing things in line with how my station runs.
To the old timers I probably looked like I didn't care about there standards and traditions but the opposite is true. I cared very deeply but I didn't know what the expectations where. If the new guys aren't going with the program they may not know what the program is. That's where we need you guys to mentor and help shape us.
But then again what do I know. Dam FNG :-)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-09-2016, 10:05 PM
roostersgt roostersgt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 5200'
Posts: 1,921
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

With my agency, a sheriff's department, everyone starts at the jail so by the time patrol rotation comes around, everyone at least knows your name and a brief history. In patrol, in my county, you are never by yourself. Every call after 3pm is at least a two man call and often involves more due to the seriousness and danger of the calls we take. You wouldn't have made it two weeks if you had any doubts about your wanting to do the job. Sorry to hear about your situation. I should add that our guys, me included, beat the standards and expectations into everyone in patrol. I constantly give pep talks and lead by example, as do our senior guys. Pay attention to the shift leaders and FTO's, I sure you, the sergeants and lieutenants are. By the time your training is over, you should be very sure what is expected. The only question then is can you deliver everyday? People are watching and the cream generally rises to the top. Earn your seniors respect, and then some.

I have to add that a co-worker of mine is a SF guy and told me the easiest part of being a Green Beret was going through Q school and getting his long tab. He said the hardest part was working to earn/keep it everyday afterward. Not exactly the same, but it does have some meaning here.

Last edited by roostersgt; 02-09-2016 at 10:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-09-2016, 10:22 PM
bobboberson bobboberson is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 72
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Ya we are a smallish state agency. Don't get me wrong I love my job, department, and partners(now that they talk to me lol). When I started my department and station where going through some tough times. My co-workers and I have had some good laughs at how I started. The first hour I was on duty I arrested a dui only to realize I had no clue where the jail was because I trained in SO cal and was now working in nor cal. Great first impression "hey guys, where's the jail?"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-09-2016, 10:30 PM
roostersgt roostersgt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: 5200'
Posts: 1,921
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

You have my respect. Anyone going into this job today is having it far tougher than when I started, in many ways. Cameras, media perception, force scrutiny etc...Believe me when I say you have it much tougher. Most people supported my generation, no matter how ham handed we handled a situation. We've all had moments like your jail question. Don't ever stop doing your job because you don't know the ancillary stuff, ask others , they'll know. We've all made mistakes you can only imagine. Nothing is truly new, only re-learned. Have a safe career and pay attention. Learn from others mistakes and never ever repeat them. Love the guys and gals you're with when working, they're all you've got. Hopefully, you'll never have to truly understand what that means.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-10-2016, 4:02 PM
michaelinfv's Avatar
michaelinfv michaelinfv is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 92
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

My FTO gave me great advice. " It's not what you do that will get you in trouble its what you say" "When you get off training go to as many calls to assist as possible observe how they handle the calls and learn the good ways and the bad ways to handle the same type of call."and the best piece of advice. "Treat everyone as if you would want your family member treated by a police officer. However if that person turns into an *** hole. Then disregard and treat him like you would treat any other *** hole"
Remember this advice was given to me about 30 years ago

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:22 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy