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  #41  
Old 12-26-2017, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helius Lights View Post
I'm speaking of the accupower guys not the accupoint. But as I thought nothing concrete can be discuss to we have a comparison of both and see why the NF 34mm is worth 1k more base off specs it shaves off 4oz to a comparable accupower 1-8.

Whether it's worth it is up to the individual, People also are unaware of the $300ish or so IP upcharge for a Horus/Christmas tree type reticle on Nightforce and many scopes which will add to the cost of the ATACR.
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  #42  
Old 12-26-2017, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Helius Lights View Post
I'm speaking of the accupower guys not the accupoint. But as I thought nothing concrete can be discuss to we have a comparison of both and see why the NF 34mm is worth 1k more base off specs it shaves off 4oz to a comparable accupower 1-8.
Ah, misread. The accupowers actually are decent scopes, but I didn't find it to be any better than the Burris XTR II 1-8. Will have to wait and see how the NF compares.
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  #43  
Old 12-26-2017, 8:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CSTactical View Post
Whether it's worth it is up to the individual, People also are unaware of the $300ish or so IP upcharge for a Horus/Christmas tree type reticle on Nightforce and many scopes which will add to the cost of the ATACR.
My biggest disappointment with the accupower, razor and kahles and other 1-4-1-8 scopes is there low light performance. It could just be a personal issue but I use my rifle almost daily. I just hope the 34mm NF has great low light performance
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  #44  
Old 12-26-2017, 9:53 PM
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What's the benefit of a 34mm tube on an 8x scope?
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  #45  
Old 12-29-2017, 6:09 AM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
What's the benefit of a 34mm tube on an 8x scope?
Same as for any other scope: there is more real estate available, so it easier to fit a decent 8x erector mechanism in there. The higher the magnification ratio, the harder it is to fit in a smaller tube. To make everything work you have to go with a very short focal length objective system, which causes rather shallow depth of field, which is a problem for scopes without parallax/focus adjustment.

ILya
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  #46  
Old 12-29-2017, 6:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helius Lights View Post
My biggest disappointment with the accupower, razor and kahles and other 1-4-1-8 scopes is there low light performance. It could just be a personal issue but I use my rifle almost daily. I just hope the 34mm NF has great low light performance
Low light performance is not really effected by the main tube diameter. For scopes of overall comparable quality, like the ones you mentioned, low light performance is largely determined by the objective lens diameter, which is the same in all of these.

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  #47  
Old 12-29-2017, 8:10 AM
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I picked up the SWFA SS HD 1-6 when they first came out and it was very impressive. Not sure how they compare to the NF without having one in each hand though.
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  #48  
Old 12-29-2017, 8:59 AM
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Originally Posted by koshkin View Post
Low light performance is not really effected by the main tube diameter. For scopes of overall comparable quality, like the ones you mentioned, low light performance is largely determined by the objective lens diameter, which is the same in all of these.

ILya
www.opticsthoughts.com
I'm aware of this just wish I could have stellar low light performance.
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  #49  
Old 12-29-2017, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Helius Lights View Post
I'm aware of this just wish I could have stellar low light performance.
It is difficult to find better low light performance with low range variable like these. The next tangible step up in terms of objective size is 32mm tweeners, like Vortex Razor HD LH 1.5-8x32. That one works very nicely in low light as do a few others. I have looked at a couple of 28mm objective scopes out there and they do not produce enough difference over a 24mm to be terribly concerned about.

For years, a sort of a general purpose low magnification design has been the 1.5-6x42, but that was largely abandoned by manufacturers until the recent wave of high erector ratio scopes. However, no matter how you slice it, if you want better low light performance, you have to give up 1x on the low end. I have worked around that by taking a larger objective scope and adding a miniature red dot sight on a 45 degree mount.

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  #50  
Old 12-30-2017, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koshkin View Post
It is difficult to find better low light performance with low range variable like these. The next tangible step up in terms of objective size is 32mm tweeners, like Vortex Razor HD LH 1.5-8x32. That one works very nicely in low light as do a few others. I have looked at a couple of 28mm objective scopes out there and they do not produce enough difference over a 24mm to be terribly concerned about.



For years, a sort of a general purpose low magnification design has been the 1.5-6x42, but that was largely abandoned by manufacturers until the recent wave of high erector ratio scopes. However, no matter how you slice it, if you want better low light performance, you have to give up 1x on the low end. I have worked around that by taking a larger objective scope and adding a miniature red dot sight on a 45 degree mount.



ILya

www.opticsthoughts.com


The NF 2.5-10x32 with Velocity reticles were always great for me on my AR-10s. Sadly, those are now 42mm and the Velocity reticles are gone as well.


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  #51  
Old 01-03-2018, 4:33 PM
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A decent review on the ATACR here:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/nig...e-full-review/
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  #52  
Old 01-03-2018, 6:08 PM
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This looks like something EVERYONE needs to be coping again from NF. I remember when they made that 2-10 scope and that was awesome. I might sell my Trijicon ECOS for this.
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  #53  
Old 01-04-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mlevans66 View Post
This looks like something EVERYONE needs to be coping again from NF. I remember when they made that 2-10 scope and that was awesome. I might sell my Trijicon ECOS for this.

I can't wait for them to come in
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  #54  
Old 01-10-2018, 8:14 AM
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Always interested in what NF puts out. That said, I have a Sig Tango6 FFP 1x6-24 and love it.

Can anyone compare these two?

Thanks.
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  #55  
Old 01-10-2018, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytil View Post
The NF 2.5-10x32 with Velocity reticles were always great for me on my AR-10s. Sadly, those are now 42mm and the Velocity reticles are gone as well.


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2.5-10x32 was a nice scope, but Velocity reticle was not my thing. The 2.5-10x42 is only marginally larger and quite a bit nicer than the 2.5-10x32 was in every way possible.

ILya
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  #56  
Old 01-10-2018, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koshkin View Post
2.5-10x32 was a nice scope, but Velocity reticle was not my thing. The 2.5-10x42 is only marginally larger and quite a bit nicer than the 2.5-10x32 was in every way possible.



ILya


What is your preferred NF reticle, ILya?


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  #57  
Old 01-11-2018, 9:45 AM
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What is your preferred NF reticle, ILya?


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I do not like BDC/holdover style reticles in SFP scopes in general. I can tolerate them when I have to, but generally, that is just a bad idea.

All I want is a simple mil-scale and some wind holds. Unfortunately, that is not real easy to get from Nightforce unless you like Horus reticle (which I distinctly don't).

In the 2.5-10x42 NXS, the only reticle I kinda like is Mil-R. It is pretty easy to live with.

In general, I think the most promising reticle design I have seen come from Nightforce lately has been the FC-DM in the new ATACR F1 1-8x24. I would really like to see some evolutions of that basic design propagate through their FFP line-up.

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  #58  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by koshkin View Post
I do not like BDC/holdover style reticles in SFP scopes in general. I can tolerate them when I have to, but generally, that is just a bad idea.

All I want is a simple mil-scale and some wind holds.
+1 on this big time.
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  #59  
Old 01-17-2018, 11:05 AM
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As soon as the 34mm come in I'll pick one up. I'll report my findings vs my accupower 1-8.
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  #60  
Old 01-23-2018, 9:01 PM
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Day 1 Shot done. First impressions of the new 1-8 offerings. The NX8 is nice and light. Good brightness and should be daytime visible, though hard to tell from inside the center. The ATACR, absolutely amazing eyebox. Think nearly unnoticeable bezel, like the Vortex Razor HD II 1-6x but with slightly better looking optics. My opinion. Worth the extra cost. I'd take one in a heartbeat, just for that eyebox alone. Everything else is typical Nightforce quality.
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  #61  
Old 01-24-2018, 8:16 AM
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Day 1 Shot done. First impressions of the new 1-8 offerings. The NX8 is nice and light. Good brightness and should be daytime visible, though hard to tell from inside the center. The ATACR, absolutely amazing eyebox. Think nearly unnoticeable bezel, like the Vortex Razor HD II 1-6x but with slightly better looking optics. My opinion. Worth the extra cost. I'd take one in a heartbeat, just for that eyebox alone. Everything else is typical Nightforce quality.
We can't wait!
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  #62  
Old 02-08-2018, 12:31 PM
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We can't wait!
Why on Gods Earth has NF not done a real review? I know we have like a hand full of mag articles but i really want to see a youtube video?
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  #63  
Old 02-08-2018, 12:33 PM
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Why on Gods Earth has NF not done a real review? I know we have like a hand full of mag articles but i really want to see a youtube video?
I rarely see them make video reviews
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  #64  
Old 02-19-2018, 3:20 PM
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Anyone have any idea how this new NF 1-8 compares with Swarovski’s Z8i 1-8?


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  #65  
Old 02-19-2018, 3:42 PM
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Anyone have any idea how this new NF 1-8 compares with Swarovski’s Z8i 1-8?


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Dealers are just getting the NX8's today and I'd put the Swaro Z8i 1-8 in the same class as the ATACR 1-8 which is not available yet.
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Old 02-19-2018, 3:44 PM
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So, even money would you go with the Swaro Z8i 1-8 or the ATACR 1-8, and why?


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  #67  
Old 02-19-2018, 3:45 PM
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So, even money would you go with the Swaro Z8i 1-8 or the ATACR 1-8, and why?


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That's a difficult question considering the ATACR is not released yet to compare
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  #68  
Old 02-19-2018, 4:06 PM
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Do you expect the nf 1-4s to get cheaper ? Seems like if the 1-8s are in the 1500-1700 range nobody would be burying 1-4s at 1300
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Old 02-19-2018, 4:11 PM
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Do you expect the nf 1-4s to get cheaper ? Seems like if the 1-8s are in the 1500-1700 range nobody would be burying 1-4s at 1300
The price has not changed as of right now.
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Old 02-19-2018, 4:48 PM
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That's a difficult question considering the ATACR is not released yet to compare
I guess its a bit presumptuous of me to be expecting a psychic premonition review.

When do you expect the ATACR to be available?

I've been sitting on the fence for quite some time about buying the Z8i 1-8. I like the idea of having an "all-in-one" solution that gives me the 1:1 of a red-dot with no distortion and still have the max zoom to bring targets in over distance. The z8i seemed to be (up until the announcement of the new ATACR) *THE* solution that would deliver all of this with no real compromise (save for $$$). I know the z8i is perfect at 1:1 and I know at 8x its gathering more light than anything else in its class. The question is whether or not I'll get the same from the NF solution - with the benefit of less cost.
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Old 02-20-2018, 8:05 AM
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So, even money would you go with the Swaro Z8i 1-8 or the ATACR 1-8, and why?


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I would like a comparison between the Minox ZP8 1-8x24 and the ATACH 1-8.
I have been holding off on my purchase for over 5 months now. Very slow release but good marketing from NF. I don't know why they didn't use a 28mm or larger objective lens like Trijicon did.
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  #72  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:08 AM
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The ATACR 'should be available in a few weeks, Nightforce did not give a specific date on when they will be released. The Swaro is a great 1-8 overall and we've sold quite a few, same with the Kahles 1-6 plus they are both lightweight. The Minox ZP8 1-8 is still one of our favorite 1-8's with fantastic glass and the Dual Focal Plane that works like an Aimpoint at 1x and switches to a reticle when the magnification goes above 2.5x.
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Old 02-26-2018, 11:14 AM
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An excellent post that covers LPV's in general including the Nightforce Duo and competitors... https://forum.snipershide.com/thread...4#post-6927319

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00bullitt, post: 6927319, member: 50025
Guys....I haven't been on here posting in a loooong time due to some issues that arose a few years ago. I work for Nightforce on the MIL-GOV-LE side of the house. I most likely won't post much beyond this, so I apologize if you ask questions and I don't follow up in a timely manner or at all.


I just thought it would be worthwhile to mention the largest differentiating factor for true 1x scopes; that is the focal plane that the reticle is located in. FFP and SFP are going to differ vastly in performance in the FOV arena. Its based on pure physics and size limitations. Until glass technology matures, right now a SFP 1x will always have more FOV.


SFP is typically always going to have more FOV due to the distance the reticle is located from the objective. It is further away. When you have a short scope, typically you have to account for more FOV by increasing the diameter of the fixed lens in the erector system. Often, the body tube is considered a limiting factor as that affects overall size and weight of a carbine type optic for a personal/primary weapon which is not meant to be huge (glass types being the same). The ATACR has a 34mm tube for a reason; design dictated a specific size of lens to accomplish a certain amount of FOV in the system at the given length for the type/spec of ED Glass used.


Fenix Mike nailed it above as the NX8 was developed with a purpose in mind and that was compact size for covert application on compact weapon systems with limited rail space. It was developed to meet certain requirements that dictated size and weight; size and weight being a higher priority than eyebox. The ATACR was also designed and developed around certain design parameters to meet a requirement; size and weight were one consideration. Eyebox (not eye relief) being up higher on the priority list. They both could be improved by making them larger/longer. Optical design is all about trade-offs and striking a balance to accomplish your end goal. Take a look at some of the European SFP 1x scopes. There is a reason they have 126'+ FOV at 1x. Look at their length.


I met Fenix Mike about 2 years ago while we were demoing to some Fed agencies in of all places....Phoenix. The gun guys who get it typically stand out at those demos as they can shoot at a higher level and understand application a bit more than others, and typically participate on forums like these. They stay much more tuned in. The 1-8's have been in development for some time. He certainly got a peek at them early on in their infancy.


The NX8 is FFP with a 30mm tube and only 8.6" long at 17 ounces. It performs very well.....FOR ITS SIZE. But it WILL NOT measure up to the ATACR in any way in performance, nor the Vortex......it was not designed to. The FFP ATACR with a 34mm tube is 10" and 21 ounces. The 34mm tube and slightly longer length allow for a larger diameter fixed erector lens. The eyepiece on the ATACR is much larger, but FOV is less than the NX8; yet the perceived performance is that the ATACR has a larger FOV as the edge to edge clarity and eyebox combine to form a fantastic image with a ton of forgiveness which makes it very fast to acquire the target. Designed to be more in line with the performance of the Vortex Razor minus the FOV.


The Vortex Razor is going to excel in the FOV arena as it has 115' on 1x; substantially more than the two NF 1-8's. The Razor eyebox is massive like the ATACR and it is fast to acquire the target. A huge recipe for 1x success is a large forgiving eyebox with as much FOV as you can squeeze out of it. Becuase lets face it....its al about speed and violence of action when you are on 1x, right?

The ATACR and Razor glass can be considered comparable.....I typically won't argue glass quality as that is a very subjective topic. What and how I see is not what/how everyone else sees. Both have excellent ED glass.


In my opinion, when close proximity CQB type of engagements trump the distance capability of an optic such as that of an assaulter/entry guy or 3 Gun Competitor, the SFP 1-6 very well may excel in certain scenarios (depending on its performance). If the emphasis is more on a DMR/SDM capability with CQB being the lower priority the FFP 1-8 makes good sense assuming it performs as needed. There is a reason that the Vortex Razor 1-6 receives such praise from the T1 units whom are using it. It does not compromise their ability to engage close targets with no sacrifice in speed over their prior EOTechs and it gives them enhanced PID capability on 6x for those distant engagements. Enhanced capability, right? 3 Gunners have been doing that for years.


Being a prior 3 Gun Competitor, I can tell you that I have always been very fond of the Vortex Razor 1-6 and the Swaro Z6i. 6x is the max that I prefer to contend with for a SFP 1x scope. If I were to go over 6x, I prefer FFP. The limiting factor has always been the reticle and daylight visibility of the dot that is formed for close work in FFP 1x scopes.


I have had the privilege over the past 30 months to put 10's of thousands of rounds through our new scopes and can form a very solid opinion of how they perform for a given application, but my opinion is just that. Fenix Mike addressed the application part pretty well. He has a criteria just like I do. They may not be the same, but we all have our considerations of what we want to accomplish with our tools. None of them are wrong.....just different


Both of the NF 1-8's share the same exact same FFP reticle technology and are extremely daylight visible in the brightest of daylight conditions. The ATACR has the inclusion of the drop down dot grid which is not inclusive of the NX8.


That brings up another point.....dot size or illuminated feature size. Remember that dot size is either fixed in relation to the target or in proportion. When in proportion (FFP), dot size is consistent through he mag range, When fixed, it only subtends properly on one setting. For example a 6x scope may have a dot size of 1moa on 6x. On 1x, it now subtends 6moa when the target is much smaller. On a FFP scope, like the NX8 and ATACR, the dot size is 2mils or 6.88moa. Yes....larger, but also consistent through the mag range and the segmented circle feature, now forms the dot on 1x.


I know there will probably be questions of me as to why we did "X" or "Y". I'd prefer not answer those questions on here as there were internal decisions that dictated why we did what we did. All had good reasons to support the decisions. These are brand new products for us. There may be changes to these models in the future; but please don't construe that as soon. It would be at least a year before you saw any additional skus.


I'd like to be as helpful as possible on here, but there are some things better left undiscussed on a public forum.


Hope you guys find the above info to be insightful and most of all thank you for your support of our products.
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Old 05-22-2018, 9:29 AM
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Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics did a review on the Nightforce NX8 today

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Old 05-22-2018, 9:52 AM
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Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics did a review on the Nightforce NX8 today

Thank you - but not a challenger to the Swaro Z8i 1-8. Coming down to the wire for me on making a purchase decision. Best as I can tell, the Swaro is still the higher quality piece of glass (if even, just ever so slightly) - anyone else have any other new info/input to add?
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Old 05-22-2018, 9:58 AM
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Different scope for different purpose IMO, I'd look at the ATACR version for comparison to the Z8i in terms of Glass and eyebox. Like indicated in the review, the NX8 is like having an Aimpoint that has magnification.



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Originally Posted by DanielJS View Post
Thank you - but not a challenger to the Swaro Z8i 1-8. Coming down to the wire for me on making a purchase decision. Best as I can tell, the Swaro is still the higher quality piece of glass (if even, just ever so slightly) - anyone else have any other new info/input to add?
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:09 AM
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From all practical information I can gather online, the Swaro Z8i 1-8 has ZERO distortion at 1x, an exceptional FoV and eyebox and as such more than surpasses the performance of an Aimpoint or any comparable solution. Factor in a fast moving magnification to 8x with the same optical performance and again, superior to an Aimpoint with magnification. Of course, it certainly weighs more than an Aimpoint with a magnifier. BUT - it weighs ever so slightly less than the Nightforce 1-8F1. BUT - is it better? I think so - but I haven't found anything that definitively compares the two scopes.

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Originally Posted by CSTactical View Post
Different scope for different purpose IMO, I'd look at the ATACR version for comparison to the Z8i in terms of Glass and eyebox. Like indicated in the review, the NX8 is like having an Aimpoint that has magnification.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:39 AM
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From all practical information I can gather online, the Swaro Z8i 1-8 has ZERO distortion at 1x, an exceptional FoV and eyebox and as such more than surpasses the performance of an Aimpoint or any comparable solution. Factor in a fast moving magnification to 8x with the same optical performance and again, superior to an Aimpoint with magnification. Of course, it certainly weighs more than an Aimpoint with a magnifier. BUT - it weighs ever so slightly less than the Nightforce 1-8F1. BUT - is it better? I think so - but I haven't found anything that definitively compares the two scopes.

Swaro did a fantastic job on the Z8i and is an excellent General Purpose and 3Gun LPV, it has great glass a fantastic eyebox, FOV and is lightweight in this class. 6x and below, SFP makes sense but above that then FFP has its advantages IMO.



Nightforce makes some of the most rugged scopes on the planet and their main market for these was Military and Law Enforcement. Front Focal Plane was chosen for these scopes since they were likely to be used at in between magnifications for Positive Identification and keeping the reticle in relation to what magnification they were using. The ATACR uses excellent glass just like the Swaro with a very good eyebox and a reticle better suited to shooting at longer distances than the Z8i or NX8.


All great choices, it comes down to what your needs are.
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Old 05-23-2018, 8:15 PM
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First of all - thank you for your reply, much appreciated. These are the types of exchanges that make these forums truly useful.

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Originally Posted by CSTactical View Post
Swaro did a fantastic job on the Z8i and is an excellent General Purpose and 3Gun LPV, it has great glass a fantastic eyebox, FOV and is lightweight in this class. 6x and below, SFP makes sense but above that then FFP has its advantages IMO.
See, that last part doesn't quite make sense to me. I get on lower powers an issue with not clearly seeing subtensions on a SFP scope, but ramped to 8x, the subtensions on an SFP are ideal - no? Is there something I'm missing here?

And as for your 3Gun reference, that is really what I am intending for use. The Z8i 1-8 would potentially go on a DD V11 Pro.

Quote:
Nightforce makes some of the most rugged scopes on the planet and their main market for these was Military and Law Enforcement.
Of which I am neither. Any breathing targets for me will come on four legs, only. God willing.

Quote:
Front Focal Plane was chosen for these scopes since they were likely to be used at in between magnifications for Positive Identification and keeping the reticle in relation to what magnification they were using. The ATACR uses excellent glass just like the Swaro with a very good eyebox and a reticle better suited to shooting at longer distances than the Z8i or NX8.
This is also a bit confusing. Considering the Swaro glass is by many measures, 2nd to none, and 8x = 8x, why would you say that the NF ATACR 1-8 F1 would serve for longer distances than the Z8i 1-8?

And on a related topic, in addition to searching for a scope for my V11 Pro, I'm also looking for a scope for my DD Ambush .308. I was considering the Z8i 2.3-18. Your thoughts? I have a Z8i 2-16 on a Weatherby Mark V 300WB and its a perfect fit. I figured the somewhat smaller game/larger clearance opportunity of the Ambush .308 would permit/warrant going up from the 2-16 to the 2.3-18 - unless you believe going with the lower position of the 2-16 (50mm vs 56mm) would be a better course of action.

Quote:
All great choices, it comes down to what your needs are.
I wear glasses. I need the best possible eyebox/relief. Ideally, maximum balance between optical quality and weight. Premium price, not an issue - simply do not believe in cheap glass.

Thank you again for your input - looking forward to your reply.

-Daniel
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Old 05-24-2018, 7:52 AM
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Daniel, sorry I should have specified that the Horus Type Reticle in the ATACR seems to be better for many at distance (1k yards) from the reviewers are claiming over at Snipers Hide. YMMV
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