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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#42
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Whether the SCOTUS hears it or not will not effect gun rights. The appeal was on the denial of attorney's fees.... a win at SCOTUS would only insure the good guys get paid for over a decade of hard work. The title is correct: RIP because people could care less if an attorney gets paid... even if he is a really cool guy, and especially if tax money is going to pay him...
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#43
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Finally, losing a court case is not the same as being wrong.
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Donald Kilmer (Lex Arma) - Reason or Force. If civic virtu does not reside in the people - no constitution, no bill of rights, no legislative body and no court will be able to preserve our liberties. Unconsciously borrowed from: "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it." — Judge Learned Hand NONE of my posts on this website are legal advice. I get the top bunk. |
#44
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I thought he was right about this. I never understood this case going forward. Pete
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NRA LIFE (1974) Psalm 46:10 I had a commission/USNR from 71-77 but never consider myself a Vet MyDad+4uncles/USMC/WW2/Korea/Vietnam. My Grandfather US Army WW1. No heroes,just regular folks--they were Veterans. “Do not be deceived.God is not mocked. You will reap what you sow.” |
#46
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Don thank you for all your hard work, SOME of us appreciate your efforts and regret your lack of well earned fees. |
#47
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Thanks to all those who endured this travesty of the legal system for our 2A rights. This is disgraceful.
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NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle & Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor American Marksman Training Group Visit our American Marksman Facebook Page Diamond Bar CCW Facebook Page NRA Memberships at Discounted fee |
#48
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Any way to find out how much the county spent on this fiasco, only to say at the last minute that "we never said they couldn't be tethered..."
Could be useful in the next election cycle? |
#49
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Thanks for all the hard work!
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^^^The above is just an opinion. NRA Patron Member CRPA 5 yr Member "...which from their verbosity, their endless tautologies, their involutions of case within case, and parenthesis within parenthesis, and their multiplied efforts at certainty by saids and aforesaids, by ors and by ands, to make them more plain, do really render them more perplexed and incomprehensible, not only to common readers, but to lawyers themselves. " - Thomas Jefferson |
#50
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Regardless of the final outcome the case, it is historic nonetheless. The case has survived all this time during which the entire body of modern 2A law was developed. It's remarkable in its own right. And let's not forget that it was Don who argued successfully and helped incorporated the 2A right through the due process clause of the 14 Amendment in Nordyke v. King, 563 F. 3d 439 - Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit 2009. This gave rise to many of the CGF cases which are still ongoing. The path forged was the same that was followed succesfully in McDonald.
I think it can be said that only two lawyers in American history can say that they have done that. My hat is off to you Don.
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#51
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It's been a little while since I've seen you post. Welcome back from the holidays. Your quotes are readily distinguished. Before: "... the unqualified word, “event,” that preserves the possibility ... including Plaintiffs’ gun shows." After: "... the County affirmatively asserts that Plaintiffs, when conducting a gun show ..." The difference would be clearer if you included this language in the latter: "The County represents that a sturdy cable attaching the firearm to a fixture, such as a table, would suffice ..." This is a gross departure from the county's prior stance. You wouldn't buy a beanie baby if you couldn't see it first because it was offsite in a DOJ approved opaque container, would you? The plaintiffs got the relief they wanted. The county is now required to interpret their own ordinance in such a manner as to allow gun shows to be conducted with firearms available to be fondled by prospective customers. I would call that a "win." The attorney fees are only at issue after the merits are decided. If you "win" a personal injury case but don't get attorney fees, is that suddenly a loss? You are welcome to criticize, but many of us realize this wasn't a victory by default in a super gun-friendly jurisdiction. Lex Arma did a phenomenal job on a protracted nightmare of a case, battling Sauron in the depths of Mordor.
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Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL. Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA). |
#52
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#53
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For instance, if an attorney representing an official of the State of California indicates in oral argument that part of the "very meaningful" ability to exercise 2nd amendment rights includes the right to carry on private property that I own or have permission of the owner, does that suddenly mean I can carry in publicly accessible private property like my front yard, or in HOA common areas where I am a part owner, or a parking lot with permission? Your position necessarily eliminates all "as applied" challenges, because the challenged ordinance/statute could be applied in a constitutional manner; however, we should disregard that it is applied unconstitutionally in practice until after the oral argument. It is unrealistic to imposing some sort of requirement that Plaintiff should have somehow divined that cables would be acceptable in light of Alameda's position that nothing short of "off site" was acceptable in practice. Even if they had asked that exact particular question, the response in 2007 would have been something similar to "what part of 'NO' don't you understand?" |
#54
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"The answer is no, we cannot conduct a gun show with guns tethered to the tables." "We cannot run a gun show with guns cabled to a...to a table your honor." If gun shows with guns cabled to tables was what the Nordykes wanted all along, that might have been an appropriate time to say so lol. Quote:
In 2010 the county attorney called the plaintiffs' attorney to talk about how the plaintiffs would like to secure guns at their gun shows but the plaintiffs' attorney hung up on him. This particular exchange in the briefs filed after last year's en banc hearing could not be any more embarassing. Reality check: even when the original panel was sold on "no guns, no exception," this case was a loser. The Nordykes never wanted guns shows with guns cabled to the table, and nobody whose decision matters agreed that this was a "win." Last edited by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!; 01-09-2013 at 1:26 PM.. |
#55
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That is a completely different set of facts from the Court holding a party to an interpretation of the law made by outside counsel in the Court of Appeals after the close of evidence. This is simple, the Ninth Circuit hated this case. The County gave them an excuse to shut it down and they took it.
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Donald Kilmer (Lex Arma) - Reason or Force. If civic virtu does not reside in the people - no constitution, no bill of rights, no legislative body and no court will be able to preserve our liberties. Unconsciously borrowed from: "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it." — Judge Learned Hand NONE of my posts on this website are legal advice. I get the top bunk. |
#56
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i'll bet you 5 bucks it doesnt say that lol.
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#58
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It's becoming even more clear how weighty a role the super lame "county counsel said this in 1999 and he is authorized to interpret the ordinance and its in the joint statement so the county is stuck with that interpretation forever" argument played in the decision to litigate this stinker for more than a decade. It's the fallback in every discussion on calguns and also when the case was circling the drain at the en banc hearing. The judges were like "so what?" lol. Which is the response that any judge in their right mind would have.
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#59
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And you got your clients their gun shows back. With guns. Nice work and thanks.
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." - Claire Wolfe |
#60
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The clients had this if they wanted it in 2006. They had it again in 2012, after 6 more years of litigation and about a million dollars in fees and lost profits (and don't forget that nearly all that time they didn't have gun shows with guns lol). Not what I would call a good bang for your buck!
Last edited by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!; 01-09-2013 at 5:06 PM.. |
#61
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But now they're going to have their gun shows with guns. Aren't they?
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." - Claire Wolfe |
#63
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Regardless of the legal nuances, I respect the time you put into this.
Based on all of the posts, I am making a Summary Judgment to say it was a worth while effort (that my $2 lawyer word of the day, sponsored by Denny Crane). Wished it would have went the other way for you! You deserve to be compensated for your time! |
#64
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Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL. Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA). |
#65
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Maybe you can quote what the joint statement actually says lol.
Last edited by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!; 01-10-2013 at 6:28 AM.. |
#66
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Thanks Don for all the hard work.!!!!!!! We need fighters in this battle. Not sideline critics. This is a Civil Rights movement not a soccer game. |
#67
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It sounds like you have nothing other than your self-serving laundry list. If you had a counterargument, you would have brought it forward. When you can convince anyone that county counsel is not the appropriate person to interpret a county ordinance (subject to judicial review), let me know. Your beanie babies are safe due to Lex Arma's hard work. Take two seconds and say thank you.
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Nationwide Master List of Current 2A Cases, courtesy of Al Norris @ TFL. Reloading Clubs: SF, East Bay Case Status: Peña v. Cid (Handgun Roster). SF v. 44Mag (Mag Parts Kits). Bauer v. Harris (DROS Fees). Davis v. LA (CCW policy). Jackson v. SF (Ammo/Storage). Teixeira (FFL Zoning). First Unitarian v. NSA (Privacy). Silvester (Waiting Period). Schoepf (DROS Delay). Haynie (AW ban). SFVPOA v. SF (10+ mag possession ban). Bear in Public: Drake (3CA); Moore (7CA); Richards, Peruta, McKay (9CA). |
#68
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(While you're at it, take a wild guess who represented the county throughout the Nordyke litigation and whose name is on all the pleadings. It's a tough one, I hope you don't strain yourself trying to figure it out. ) |
#71
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Brandon Combs I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead. My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer. |
#72
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Last edited by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!; 01-12-2013 at 11:55 AM.. |
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