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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-21-2017, 8:09 AM
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Default Sub moa barrels... Why one vs the other?

Currently I own a 16in Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel that has a sub moa guarantee if used with match ammo. There are a ton of other 200 dollar range barrels that have the same accuracy claim. So why would I buy a LaRue, Noveske, or custom kreiger barrel that costs upwards of 400 plus DOLLARS?

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  #2  
Old 11-21-2017, 8:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
Currently I own a 16in Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel that has a sub moa guarantee if used with match ammo. There are a ton of other 200 dollar range barrels that have the same accuracy claim. So why would I buy a LaRue, Noveske, or custom kreiger barrel that costs upwards of 400 plus DOLLARS?

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I love when people say sub moa guarantee. The only thing I can guarantee is that there is no guarantee.

Barrels just do different things with different ammo. Even the same barrel from barrel to barrel.

As to your 2nd question... Name, barrel profile, barrel material, perhaps you have a twist or groove style preference. Who made the barrel blank, chambering, shipping with a matched bolt (JP Ent.) To each his own...

Personally I have got expensive and inexpensive barrels to shoot well... its a matter of putting in the time. That said, you buy a better barrel to give you a better chance of achieving what you want to achieve.
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Old 11-21-2017, 8:18 AM
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Consistency between barrels when going premium.

Should read about the guy that bought a Criterion barrel (after I suggested a Douglas) only to order a Douglas barrel 2 weeks later.
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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Old 11-21-2017, 8:22 AM
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I dunno, 0.9MOA vs 0.25MOA I guess...Both are sub-MOA.
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Old 11-21-2017, 8:24 AM
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Should read about the guy that bought a Criterion barrel (after I suggested a Douglas) only to order a Douglas barrel 2 weeks later.
I thought that was pretty funny.
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Old 11-21-2017, 8:46 AM
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If a maker claims a sub MOA result and you don't get it, will they take it back?
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Old 11-21-2017, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
So why would I buy a LaRue, Noveske, or custom kreiger barrel that costs upwards of 400 plus DOLLARS?
FYI, Larue barrels are currently selling for $169 on their site right now. Black Friday pricing. But the standard pricing for their bare PredetAR and Stealth barrels is only $225 (starting price).
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Old 11-21-2017, 9:14 AM
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JP barrels and call it a day....
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Old 11-21-2017, 9:22 AM
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I thought that was pretty funny.
I feel like we may have a rerun on our hands...
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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Old 11-21-2017, 9:30 AM
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Sorry fellas didn't scroll down! The BA barrel was always meant to be a general purpose blaster upper. I shoot primarily steel case wolf and have no expectations of any thing tighter than 3 moa with plinking ammo. I just bought 2k of Magtech mk262 77gr clone and wanted to get a barrel that would best take advantage of this ammo. I just see a ton of barrel and rifle companies claiming sub moa accuracy with my ammo. And was wondering what they are doing with their barrels that may be different than going with a cle or kreiger.

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  #11  
Old 11-21-2017, 9:53 AM
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If a maker claims a sub MOA result and you don't get it, will they take it back?
Nah, usually the have you send it in and then they run different ammo through it till it has a good group. Then they send you the target and tell you it’s the shooter not the barrel. I’m sure if it was a major dud it would be replaced.

Last edited by deckhandmike; 11-21-2017 at 2:29 PM..
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  #12  
Old 11-21-2017, 12:14 PM
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....So why would I buy a LaRue, Noveske, or custom kreiger barrel that costs upwards of 400 plus DOLLARS?...
People buy barrels from the top manufacturers because they consistently provide top quality (accurate) barrels. I'm not sure the companies you listed are in that category.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:00 AM
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People buy barrels from the top manufacturers because they consistently provide top quality (accurate) barrels. I'm not sure the companies you listed are in that category.
Is Kreiger not a top manufacturer?
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:04 AM
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Is Kreiger not a top manufacturer?
I'm sure his comment was referring to Larue and Noveske.

Kreiger is legit.
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2017, 1:13 PM
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I'm sure his comment was referring to Larue and Noveske. Kreiger is legit.
I own Krieger and Noveske, your comment is 100% accurate.
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Old 11-22-2017, 2:38 PM
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In 223, After buying WOA Match & Rainer "Super Match", I've gone through 2 barrels each (4 barrels). They still don't consistently shoot 1 MOA. They will randomly spit a bullet out to 1.3-1.5. Got 2300+ rds. through the WOA and 1200+ rds. through the Rainier. Sent one of each back to the Mfg. because they wouldn't shoot and got replacements. The replacements shoot okay, but nothing I'm excited about.

I have found a couple of loads that shoot okay, but when I replace these last 2 Rainier and WOA, I will go to Krieger, Lija, Bartlin, Rock etc.

I'm done with these mid priced "Match" barrels. Plenty of cheap barrels that will shoot okay, but if you're looking for real match accuracy, go to the real barrel makers and spend the $$$ for a barrel that will shoot.

I know gas guns can be finicky, but my GAP 10 with a Bartlin 22" barrel is a laser with good ammo.
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2017, 4:15 PM
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Originally Posted by FLIGHT762 View Post
In 223, After buying WOA Match & Rainer "Super Match", I've gone through 2 barrels each (4 barrels). They still don't consistently shoot 1 MOA. They will randomly spit a bullet out to 1.3-1.5. Got 2300+ rds. through the WOA and 1200+ rds. through the Rainier. Sent one of each back to the Mfg. because they wouldn't shoot and got replacements. The replacements shoot okay, but nothing I'm excited about.

I have found a couple of loads that shoot okay, but when I replace these last 2 Rainier and WOA, I will go to Krieger, Lija, Bartlin, Rock etc.

I'm done with these mid priced "Match" barrels. Plenty of cheap barrels that will shoot okay, but if you're looking for real match accuracy, go to the real barrel makers and spend the $$$ for a barrel that will shoot.

I know gas guns can be finicky, but my GAP 10 with a Bartlin 22" barrel is a laser with good ammo.
WOA barrels are by made Wilson and typically last 3-4k.
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Old 11-22-2017, 4:43 PM
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WOA barrels are by made Wilson and typically last 3-4k.
Thank you. I'm aware of that. My point is when I shoot out this WOA barrel, I will NOT be buying another one or any of the mid priced "Match" barrels. I will spend the extra cash for a Kreiger, Bartlin, Lija etc. This occasional random spitting of a bullet with these barrels is nonsense.

I know some people have good luck with them, but that isn't the case for me.

If you live anywhere near me, I'd be happy to show you the targets. I have every target (2300 rds. ) in a 3 ring binder.
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Old 11-22-2017, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FLIGHT762 View Post
Thank you. I'm aware of that. My point is when I shoot out this WOA barrel, I will NOT be buying another one or any of the mid priced "Match" barrels. I will spend the extra cash for a Kreiger, Bartlin, Lija etc. This occasional random spitting of a bullet with these barrels is nonsense.

I know some people have good luck with them, but that isn't the case for me.

If you live anywhere near me, I'd be happy to show you the targets. I have every target (2300 rds. ) in a 3 ring binder.
Are you talking about the 26" 8-twist Wilson barrel that they normally use for their match rifle upper
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Old 11-22-2017, 6:12 PM
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JP barrels and call it a day....
You mean Wilson barrels?
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  #21  
Old 11-22-2017, 6:59 PM
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Thank you. I'm aware of that. My point is when I shoot out this WOA barrel, I will NOT be buying another one or any of the mid priced "Match" barrels....
I have two WOA Service Rifle uppers with their standard barrel. Both shoot extremely well, they may be my best shooting guns. That includes my Kreiger Compass Lake and my Rem 5R. Perhaps not as good as my Bartlein 6BR but I'd have to get my wind flags out to see which one is better. I'm not sure if I just got lucky but John Holliger says he machines all the barrels the same and he sees no difference on the target.
The benchrest guys have a higher standard than most shooters and they use barrels from most all the main players.
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Old 11-22-2017, 7:50 PM
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[QUOTE=FLIGHT762;20938297] This occasional random spitting of a bullet with these barrels is nonsense./QUOTE]

Nonsense, I tell you…

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Old 11-22-2017, 10:27 PM
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Are you talking about the 26" 8-twist Wilson barrel that they normally use for their match rifle upper
No, first barrel was an 18" SPR that didn't shoot well & sent it back, replacement was a 20" 1/7 service rifle barrel.

Last edited by FLIGHT762; 11-22-2017 at 10:43 PM..
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:42 PM
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I'm not sure if I just got lucky but John Holliger says he machines all the barrels the same and he sees no difference on the target.
I sent the second barrel back because of the random spitting. John Holliger shot a couple of groups with black Hills MK 262. He got about .98" with it. Sent it back to me & said it's within spec.

Barrel still spits and is not a consistent 1 MOA barrel.

I'm glad others have had good luck with them, but I won't buy another product from them. I spent a lot of time on the phone with them and tons of E mails back and forth with target photos.

As a last resort, I even had the barrel cut back to remove the F/H threads and re crown with a target crown. Didn't make much difference accuracy wise.

I got it to shoot okay with a 77 Sierra W/ 24.0 grs. of RE-15 in a R/P commercial case / Win. SRP @ CBTO: 1.858"-060". I'll go with that load for a while.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
If a maker claims a sub MOA result and you don't get it, will they take it back?
Proof Research did for a guy on an AR10 I think.

As for me, it comes down to company reputation and politics. Some companies have made some anti 2nd Ammendment statements or political moves and I won't buy from them if I can help it.
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Old 11-23-2017, 9:48 AM
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Without a fixed bench and support system, how could one really know the true accuracy? Without that fixed rest you are measuring the shooter more than the barrel.

I'm pretty sure most of my barrels are more accurate than I am.
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
I shoot primarily steel case wolf and have no expectations of any thing tighter than 3 moa with plinking ammo.
You have no reason to buy a high quality barrel.
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Old 11-23-2017, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
You have no reason to buy a high quality barrel.
That's why I bought the Ballistic Advantage barrel. I got 2k of Magtech mk262 77gr clone ammo that I want to build a new upper to take advantage of that round.

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  #29  
Old 11-23-2017, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kwikvette View Post
Consistency between barrels when going premium.

Should read about the guy that bought a Criterion barrel (after I suggested a Douglas) only to order a Douglas barrel 2 weeks later.
Hey now, be nice!
The Criterion is still a nice barrel...just not nice enough.

OP what really got me was someone replying to one of my posts where I said I simply wasn’t capable of shooting .5 MOA. He replied “How do you know that?”
Well, I didn’t. I’d never owned a barrel that good so how did I know my actual abilities?
So after my disappointment with Criterion I bought a Douglass.
The Criterion will still get used, but my Douglass will actually let me see how I’M shooting.
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Old 11-23-2017, 2:59 PM
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Hey now, be nice!
The Criterion is still a nice barrel...just not nice enough.
Douglas aren't that great .
After 2k rds ,I sold one for half the cost of a Krieger.
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Old 11-23-2017, 3:52 PM
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Douglas aren't that great .
After 2k rds ,I sold one for half the cost of a Krieger.
Good enough for the mk12, good enough for me.
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Old 11-23-2017, 6:39 PM
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I got this a year ago and can shot MOA all day long and believe me I'm not that good.

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Old 11-23-2017, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwikvette View Post
I'm sure his comment was referring to Larue and Noveske.

Kreiger is legit.
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Originally Posted by russ69 View Post
I own Krieger and Noveske, your comment is 100% accurate.
I agree with the above in regards to krieger (dont own a noveske) . When shooting the krieger I feel like i can shoot the d*ck off a hummingbird at under 100 yards
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:01 PM
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I agree with the above in regards to krieger (dont own a noveske) . When shooting the krieger I feel like i can shoot the d*ck off a hummingbird at under 100 yards
The question is, why would you be aiming at it anyway
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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  #35  
Old 11-23-2017, 11:09 PM
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Good enough for the mk12, good enough for me.
subpar weapon system ... ok , got it

the only acceptable MK12 Barrel is the noveske that was in the Mod H
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Old 11-24-2017, 6:38 AM
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subpar weapon system ... ok , got it

the only acceptable MK12 Barrel is the noveske that was in the Mod H
Only acceptable barrel eh...better tell naval special warfare guys.
And the Army, and the Marines (maybe draw the marines a picture in crayon).
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Old 11-24-2017, 9:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FLIGHT762 View Post
I sent the second barrel back because of the random spitting. John Holliger shot a couple of groups with black Hills MK 262. He got about .98" with it. Sent it back to me & said it's within spec.

Barrel still spits and is not a consistent 1 MOA barrel.

I'm glad others have had good luck with them, but I won't buy another product from them. I spent a lot of time on the phone with them and tons of E mails back and forth with target photos.

As a last resort, I even had the barrel cut back to remove the F/H threads and re crown with a target crown. Didn't make much difference accuracy wise.

I got it to shoot okay with a 77 Sierra W/ 24.0 grs. of RE-15 in a R/P commercial case / Win. SRP @ CBTO: 1.858"-060". I'll go with that load for a while.

Yeah, 24 grains of RL15 with the 77 SMK or Hornady's 75 BTHP was my go to load when I started shooting XTC with the WOA A2 upper.

Then, it was suggested to me, for mag length ammo, that I bump the charge to 24.5 grains and play with the seating depth. Groups got tighter with 2.21" OAL That same powder charge and seating depth works well with Varget.

My second WOA A2 upper likes 8208XBR with the 69 SMK. The 77SMK with H4895 is a close second.

Both uppers love 80 SMK with RL15, Varget, H4895, or 8208XBR but the second upper loves 75 Amax with 8208XBR.

Not downplaying your experience with the WOA service rifle barrel but if you are up for it try playing around with a faster powder or a different bullet.
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Old 11-24-2017, 3:59 PM
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Yes, I have on hand Varget, H-4895, 8208 XBR, XMR 4064 and AR Comp. Second best with the Sierra 77's is 23.5 of 8208. I also have CCI 41, Rem. 7-1/2's, Federal AR SRP and some Winchester SRP's.

A couple of barrels like the Sierra Tipped MK with 25.0 of Varget.
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  #39  
Old 11-24-2017, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FLIGHT762 View Post
Yes, I have on hand Varget, H-4895, 8208 XBR, XMR 4064 and AR Comp. Second best with the Sierra 77's is 23.5 of 8208. I also have CCI 41, Rem. 7-1/2's, Federal AR SRP and some Winchester SRP's.

A couple of barrels like the Sierra Tipped MK with 25.0 of Varget.
What's your COAL on the Tipped Match Kings loading up 25gr of Varget? Sounds like you'd be crushing that powder...
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Old 11-24-2017, 5:25 PM
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What's your COAL on the Tipped Match Kings loading up 25gr of Varget? Sounds like you'd be crushing that powder...
They can be seated mag length with 24.5 making only a little noise.
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