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  #41  
Old 11-06-2017, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If you don't know what you would do with it, you obviously don't need it.
Nope, I surely dont. No argument there.

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Originally Posted by kevins750 View Post
HATER!

If I rattle can it coyote, will you finally admit it's awesomeness?
Challenge accepted, Iíll bring a can of krylon on Sunday lol!

Soooooo...anyone else shoot one of these Criterion barrels? One positive response and a bunch of off topic thus far.
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  #42  
Old 11-06-2017, 10:49 PM
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I have an older 24" SS Criterion barrel on one of my ARs. It's not chrome-lined, but I had it nitrided. It's very accurate and handles heavy bullets well.
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  #43  
Old 11-19-2017, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NorCalFocus View Post
So think about it this way...if the best your barrel is capable of is 1 MOA, that's the best you'll ever be able to shoot. You'll have no idea how good you really are. You'll question every flyer or round that doesn't land where you want it and you'll have no idea if it was you, the gun, or your ammo.

Now if you have a 1/2 MOA barrel, and you put down 1 MOA groups, you know it was either you or if you feel like it was a good shot, likely the ammo. Your buying confidence in a way with a premium barrel.

My own personal experience. I chased my tail for a year or so wondering why I wasn't getting better groups after shooting my .308 for two years. Shot different loads, bullets, powders, etc. I kept thinking it was me doing something wrong. Well one range day I was so frustrated with my .308 bolt gun I took my AR out for shooting groups. My $600 home build with a $150 barrel and I put down 3/4" or better groups at 100 yards. I realized right there, it wasn't me, it was the gun. Saved my money, bought a barrel (happens to be a Krueger lol) took it to Randall. First day out with it, 1/2 MOA groups. I can do it all day long now.
Came back and read this, makes a lot of sense. Thanks for not putting it in the ďIf you donít buy barrel brand XXX youíre bad and should feel badĒ phrasing.

So I did buy a Criterion barrel because hey, why not? Might as well give it a shot! Worse comes to worse Iíll buy a Douglass if it doesnít work out.

Well-it didnít work out. My AR Performance barrel outshoots it pretty easily. My post on Arfcom-

ďI just ran a few strings of fire through my 18 inch hybrid CL barrel after breaking it in last weekend (not that the break in took long at all).
L.C. and Wolf Gold brass, CCI#41, H4895/8208XBR, 77gr Nosler CC, btol 1.861 via Hornady comparator tool.

Aero precision upper trued via Pac. Tool and gauge tool. Larue 12inch handguard and Syrac adjustable gas block. Barrel bedded into receiver with blue locktite. Nightforce 2.5-10x24 for glass.
Larue MBT trigger.
Shot from prone with bipod and rear bag.

First things first, very overgassed. My gas block is about half way closed to get reliable function from Wolf Gold .223, M855, and Black Hills 77gr OTM 5.56. I expected this as itís an 18 inch rifle gas so the gas port has to be large. No biggie.

Best group was barely under an inch, and they were my fouling rounds. .938 inch with WG brass. These all had inconsistent neck tension or other abnormality so I used them as sighters/fowlers.

Best group with 4895 was 1.10, average 1.51 across 7 groups.

Best 8208 group was 1.115, average of 1.46 over 7 groups.

With L.C. M855 (green tip) grouped 3.222

So overall Iím kinda disappointed. My AR Performance barrel groups much, much better with these same loads (.733 with WG brass and 23.3gr H4895). I wasnít expecting 1/2 MOA performance to rival Douglass or krieger, but itís not quite the MOA barrel I was expecting.

Just wanted to post my experience with it as there was little posted when I tried researching them.

Think Iíll finally pull the trigger on that CLE Douglass SPR barrelĒ

So there it is! It could very well be something in the build that went wrong but a tear down of the upper showed nothing obviously amiss.

Groups were kind of all over the place. No vertical stringing for the most part, and no horizontal stringing-just all over. I thought my scope was loose but the mount (Larue spr-s) was tight, scope nice and snug.
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  #44  
Old 11-19-2017, 8:40 PM
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Wow, not the experience I have had with a Criterion barrel. Sorry to hear it didn't work out.
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  #45  
Old 11-19-2017, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
I thought my scope was loose but the mount (Larue spr-s) was tight, scope nice and snug.
The quick check to confirm that the scope is good is to move it over to another known accurate gun and shoot a couple groups.
If the other gun shoots as expected, the optic is usually fine.
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  #46  
Old 11-19-2017, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The quick check to confirm that the scope is good is to move it over to another known accurate gun and shoot a couple groups.
If the other gun shoots as expected, the optic is usually fine.
I took it from my AR Performance upper that has shot very well, so the only thing I could think of was the interface between mount and upper, but that was plenty tight. I will double check it next weekend though.

Also going to try some of the Hornady 75ís and some 77 SMK, but if itís not shooting the Nosler well I doubt itíll do better with the SMK and Iíve not read much good about the 75 grain Hornady.

Maybe being a (fairly) lightweight barrel with 1/8 itíd do better with 69 grain pills?
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  #47  
Old 11-19-2017, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
Wow, not the experience I have had with a Criterion barrel. Sorry to hear it didn't work out.
Hey itís a fun experiment right? Lol!

Iíll keep trying different things with it while waiting on a Douglass, but 23.5 H4895 and 23.4-8 8208XBR under a 77 grain bullet seems so universally good, and runs good in my other scoped AR, that I have trouble believing itís an ammo issue.

Only issue I can think of with my ammo is uneven neck tension as Iím using the standard RCBS FL sizing die. Iím going to get a Redding S FL sizing die with neck bushings to try and remedy that, but I canít imagine it would be that big an issue at 100 yards.

Next weekend Iím going to run the same rounds but with a very light crimp and see what happens.
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  #48  
Old 11-19-2017, 9:25 PM
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
I took it from my AR Performance upper that has shot very well, so the only thing I could think of was the interface between mount and upper, but that was plenty tight. I will double check it next weekend though.

Also going to try some of the Hornady 75ís and some 77 SMK, but if itís not shooting the Nosler well I doubt itíll do better with the SMK and Iíve not read much good about the 75 grain Hornady.

Maybe being a (fairly) lightweight barrel with 1/8 itíd do better with 69 grain pills?
Itís quite common for skinny barrels to just not shoot groups as consistently as thicker barrels.
The thinner a barrel, the more selective it will be in what it likes.
You might find it shoots a 69gr or 52gr smk lights out.
It wonít be because the bullets lighter though.
It will just be what the barrel likes.
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  #49  
Old 11-19-2017, 9:43 PM
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Hey, you're finally following Post #4's suggestion
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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  #50  
Old 11-19-2017, 9:53 PM
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Hey, you're finally following Post #4's suggestion
I took the road less traveled when those roads diverged in a yellow wood lol.
Hey are those the arms #22 low tings on your rifle?

Last edited by C.W.M.V.; 11-19-2017 at 10:33 PM..
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  #51  
Old 11-19-2017, 9:58 PM
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Randall your posts are usually pretty on point but you need to adjust windage here.
How is that windage adjustment looking now?
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  #52  
Old 11-19-2017, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
How is that windage adjustment looking now?
You were supposing that I was making my decisions based entirely on price which is not true. I never questioned that a Douglass/krieger would shoot better, that goes without saying.

“Randall your posts are usually pretty on point but you need to adjust windage here. I’m all about buying a CLE Krieger barrel but if I can get a barrel that shoots almost as well, with an exponentially longer barrel life, I’m going to buy it.”

As you see barrel life was and remains my biggest concern.

Last edited by C.W.M.V.; 11-19-2017 at 10:59 PM..
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  #53  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:57 AM
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Well it’s done!
CLE SPR Rifle gas Douglass barrel is on its way with a CLE chamber gauge.
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  #54  
Old 11-20-2017, 1:47 PM
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I'm running a 20 inch match grade SS Criterion barrel (from Fulton Armory / not chrome lined) on my LR308 its very accurate, more accurate than i am!
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  #55  
Old 11-20-2017, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Arnelcheeze View Post
I'm running a 20 inch match grade SS Criterion barrel (from Fulton Armory / not chrome lined) on my LR308 its very accurate, more accurate than i am!
Seems the 30 cal shooters love em, but mine just isnít quite where I want it to be.
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  #56  
Old 11-21-2017, 8:26 AM
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Every time I shoot that Criterion barrel it puts a fresh smile on my face.

Best "add-on" I ever did to that ^JD machine^ made rifle. Another benefit is the chrome lining makes cleaning very easy. It's got a polished finish the other chrome lined barrels do not have, it looks different too.
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  #57  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:06 AM
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It’s a great looking barrel, but not great shooting lol
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  #58  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Arnelcheeze View Post
I'm running a 20 inch match grade SS Criterion barrel (from Fulton Armory / not chrome lined) on my LR308 its very accurate, more accurate than i am!
I'm running an 18" match grade 308 Criterion from Fulton and haven't been that impressed. The best it can do is 1.5 MOA.
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  #59  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:58 AM
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I'm running an 18" match grade 308 Criterion from Fulton and haven't been that impressed. The best it can do is 1.5 MOA.
Is it chrome lined like the OP's barrel?
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  #60  
Old 11-21-2017, 11:26 AM
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Is it chrome lined like the OP's barrel?
Yes.
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  #61  
Old 11-21-2017, 12:31 PM
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Common denominator it seems.
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  #62  
Old 11-21-2017, 1:51 PM
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Best "add-on" I ever did to that ^JD machine^ made rifle.
I never visited that shop. I waited too long, even though they were only about a half mile from my house. I guess some of the guys were regulars at the craft brewer two doors down, Bitter Brothers. I'm giving BB a plug BTW. Nice little tasting room with an interesting selection. Good people running it.
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  #63  
Old 11-21-2017, 4:22 PM
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Yes.
Chrome lining makes a barrel's bore dimensions less consistent.
Chrome lining is not a guarantee that the precision will be poorer on any specific individual barrel compared to an un-lined barrel, but chrome lined barrels are less precise on average when you look at large quantities of chrome lined barrels against un-lined barrels.
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  #64  
Old 11-22-2017, 8:44 AM
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I have non-chrome, SS and the Criterion. The Criterion chrome lined beats all my non-chrome and SS barrels here. No, I don't have a $500+ SS barrel, just the mid level stuff as I'm a mid level shooter on a mid level budget.

Criterion floats my mid level boat just fine. YMMV.
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  #65  
Old 11-22-2017, 12:49 PM
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I have non-chrome, SS and the Criterion. The Criterion chrome lined beats all my non-chrome and SS barrels here. No, I don't have a $500+ SS barrel, just the mid level stuff as I'm a mid level shooter on a mid level budget.

Criterion floats my mid level boat just fine. YMMV.
1 sample is just 1 sample.
The OP has the opposite results which are also just 1 sample.
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  #66  
Old 11-23-2017, 9:32 AM
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True. I don't have enough samples to make any pattern up. I also have a DD 14.5" that is quite good, way better than the 16" Daniel Defense barrel I replaced with the Criterion.

Could be a Monday vs Friday barrel or a broken clock is right twice a day scenerio, but that Criterion is a real shooter, at least for me. At only $249, it's was a worthy gamble for me that paid off.

Anyone want my DD 16"?
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  #67  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:49 AM
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Well a bit of an update:
I contacted Criterion and explained the situation.
They offered to send me a shipping label to send them the upper to be tested and rebuilt/inspected. Can’t conplain about their service, particularly when I only bought the barrel, and that from Brownells! I told them that I wanted to do my best to eliminate shooter error on my end by trying other factoryvloads/developing my own. Offer still stands as far as I know.

Also got/installed my Douglas barrel-24.4gr Tac+77gr CC+CCI 41+LC Brass=.518 inches at 100yards. AA2520 averaged a .855 inch group across 5 different charge weights/5 shot groups. Seems I was capable of pulling it off. A 20x scope helped.

Last edited by C.W.M.V.; 01-15-2018 at 12:54 AM..
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  #68  
Old 01-15-2018, 8:27 AM
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Every once in a while a bad barrel goes out. My experience with Criterion has been excellent. It's unfortunate that you didn't have the same.
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Old 01-15-2018, 9:03 AM
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Keep us updated!

It's kind of funny that last Wednesday, this thread came to mind. I'm a regular at my local range and I was talking to another regular there. He reloads and has a few rifles that are very capable. Well he packed up right away after having tried many different loads, powders, bullets, etc. on his Savage paired with a Criterion barrel. He went on to explain that he brought it out several times in the last few months trying many different loads. That barrel was 22" or 24" long, and was 1" in diameter at the muzzle. When I first saw it, I assumed it was going to be a tack driver but after seeing his groups, it was pretty damn disappointing.
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my gun shoots better with shiny brass...plus not only does the shiny brass make me look like a pimp at the range if the sun catches it just right it blinds the guy next to me which improves my odds of winning the match.
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  #70  
Old 01-30-2018, 5:00 PM
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Iím still working with my Douglas barrel but I think Iíll shoot some of my a2520/Tac loads through the Criterion and see how it does.
In its defense, it shoots 4895 and 8208 just about as badly as my Douglas, hopefully it shoots 2520 and tac as well as the Douglas does


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Old 01-31-2018, 7:19 AM
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Iím pretty new to reloading, only been at it a few years and I donít get to the range nearly as often as Iíd like...

But shouldnít it be *expected* that a great shooting handload would group entirely different in a new/longer/lighter etc barrel?

I would have thought that new barrel = new load ladder, bullet weight or something.

People with experience please tell me if Iím right/wrong.

A 16Ē ARP socom (assumed) vs 18Ē CBI hybrid should result in quite different barrel harmonics
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Old 01-31-2018, 8:07 AM
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Iím pretty new to reloading, only been at it a few years and I donít get to the range nearly as often as Iíd like...

But shouldnít it be *expected* that a great shooting handload would group entirely different in a new/longer/lighter etc barrel?

I would have thought that new barrel = new load ladder, bullet weight or something.

People with experience please tell me if Iím right/wrong.

A 16Ē ARP socom (assumed) vs 18Ē CBI hybrid should result in quite different barrel harmonics
Did ya miss post #43 where I ran 10+ groups at varying weights of two different powders through it?
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  #73  
Old 01-31-2018, 8:23 AM
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Did ya miss post #43 where I ran 10+ groups at varying weights of two different powders through it?
Relax, this is Calguns where no one really reads anything past the 7th posting...

Regardless, AA2520 works well for me with 77's and 80's at 600yds, no measuring, just meter out in a progressive. IMR 4895 worked well under Nosler CC 52's for my off-hand load (RRA NM A2) which I believe has a Douglas barrel.

Last edited by smoothy8500; 01-31-2018 at 8:34 AM..
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  #74  
Old 01-31-2018, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
Relax, this is Calguns where no one really reads anything past the 7th posting...


Lol! Quoted for truth lol.
Like I said above Iíll be doing some more testing of it this weekend


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  #75  
Old 01-31-2018, 12:50 PM
hardlyworking hardlyworking is offline
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Originally Posted by C.W.M.V. View Post
Did ya miss post #43 where I ran 10+ groups at varying weights of two different powders through it?
Yup, I missed that! Sounds like you gave it a good college try to get the barrel to shoot well.
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  #76  
Old 01-31-2018, 1:02 PM
C.W.M.V. C.W.M.V. is offline
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Yup, I missed that! Sounds like you gave it a good college try to get the barrel to shoot well.
Well not quite, I only tried two powders, we shall see with tac/2520 this weekend.
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  #77  
Old 02-06-2018, 6:39 PM
C.W.M.V. C.W.M.V. is offline
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Well, ran Tac and 2520 through it...no dice.
Best group was MOA, .863 center to center with 24.6gr A2520. Worst was just over 3 inches with Tac. Average was right around 1.5 inches.

So with that, Iím done. I picked up a WOA SPR barrel for cheap on Black Friday that needs an upper.
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  #78  
Old 02-07-2018, 7:21 AM
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smoothy8500 smoothy8500 is offline
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Well, that's unfortunate that this Criterion barrel was sub-par.
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