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FFL's Forum For open discussion between FFLs and polite questions for FFLs. |
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#1
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PPT Burnout? And the fun is just beginning....
As I visit local guns stores in SoCal I see staffs dragged down by lots of PPTs. I am guilty of doing my fair share, with an iTrader rating of 280 I have done many PPTs and also a fair amount of new guns too. I also try to only buy guns and other things at stores who process PPTs for me, and avoid buying anything from the stores who seem to want to punish gun owners for following the insane transfer paperwork and bureaucracy that goes with it. As I talk with various clerks and FFL owners there is the constant complaint that California is becoming increasing burdensome in the back end of the gun business, and the feeling the state wants to bog down the local gun stores with paperwork to further disincentive their existences.
Is this a true statement? Also, if things are bad with transfers now what is it going to be like in 8 months when background checks and additional paperwork are required to buy ammo?? With falling new gun sales, and soon to be falling ammo sales, what does that mean for local gun and ammo stores? Will increased regulatory restrictions eventually choke out more of our already dwindling FFLs?
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I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#2
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Just for funsies try to figure out how much you would have made if you had spent all of that time on the clock.
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It's not PTSD, it's nostalgia. |
#3
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Guns....Its a hobby, not a job....and I want to keep it that way, but figure to buy or sell a gun it takes 5 hours on average total (initial purchase, drive time, pick up time, waiting in line time), so about $100,000.00 in pursuing my hobby deducted from work time....not to mention testing the gun, developing loads, looking for the particular gun on Calguns, etc. But that is over a period of 10 years....much cheaper than a boat which runs about $40,000 a year if its in the water full time.
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I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#4
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Now that “mail order” Ammo is going away... shops might be happier to get customers in for a PPT.
If a shop is smart, they can offer the upsells- Cleaning kits/ accessories Magazines Ammo Targets Training/ classes NRA membership Etc Old school brick and mortar shops live on foot traffic... now you have 2 people to please... Many guns are commodities. What does an FFL make by selling a new glock or XD? $50-$75? This requires them to front $500 in inventory. - Does a waiter ever not offer you a frosty margarita or tell you about some appitizer on special? The best sales people educate a customer.... — example— I picked up a surplus SKS years back... the clerk, not salesperson did not discuss anything with me.... I would have been happy to buy: - cans of powder blaster - stripper clips - Ammo I was happy to spend twice what I spent on just the rifle.... the clerk, I don’t know what they get a splif on but it has trained them not to give a good sale experience. For those who were not in the shooting sports in 1993/1994, 1995 sucked Everyone spent 5 years of budget by the 1994 ban Inventories went way up in 1995 Ammo was cheap in 1995 Ranges were quiet in 1995 No one had money left to spend shooting No one had anything to buy as the good stuff was no longer available
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Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs) Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT (thanks to Jeff Cooper) |
#5
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Its required by law and quite simply part of the game. You obviously don't know anything about gun shop business models. |
#6
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So how do gun stores make money?
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I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#7
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Selling inventory. We treat PPTers with the same respect and courtesy as any other customer. Many use us as a midway meeting point and never come back. Its very rare that either buy merchandise in a significant way.
One person just bought a gun, and the seller needed the money. |
#8
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Law dictates on a PPT you can only charge $10 on top of the$25 DROS. PPT sales rarley bring permanent customers and rarley get add on sales. taperxz is right, PPTs dont help business much.
When I get guns in from Buds or where ever , a lot of the times the customer chose me because I am the closest or most convenience (sometimes just because Im the cheapest). On FFL transfers from out of state or other stores, we can charge any amount we want. $35-75 is typical. So a lot of the time I can capture that customer and keep them coming back and make a couple bucks off the sale. Someone transfers a 10/22 from buds, Ill probably make the same amount with my fee than I would if I sold it from stock. But PPT sales are usually bargain guys, or calgunners who only want off roster stuff, or half way point between the guys. Yea sure some of the costomers may come back, but usually they are only there because the law says that have to be. Its $35 no matter where they go, you only make $10 off the sale and usually that doens't cover cost of business (time). I don't dislike PPT's, they just don't HELP business.
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ShootSoCal Firearms & Training. Gun Store, Training, Cerakote & Gunsmith Our Fullerton store is Open! 714.242.5400 - Info@ShootSoCal.com 10-6 Monday- Saturday, No Appointment needed. 1139 S Placentia Ave Fullerton CA 92831 Glock Optic Cuts Glock, M&P, Shield, CZ and 1911 Starting $125 FFL TRANSFER $50 / Ammo $25 We are hiring GUNSMITH position Factory Trained and Certified CERAKOTE Applicator. View our Online Gun Store here! |
#9
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I understand the fee may be increased to $20.00 for the dealer. We know the state is actually making a profit on the sale, which is being used for their anti felon possession units, when it should be used to facilitate lower dros fees per law.
I buy stuff from places I use for PPTs but for rare birds, very few stores carry vintage C&R guns so it's the Internet for those searches or calguns.
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I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#10
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#11
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Even if a PPT is usually a loser for a FFL when only direct costs and revenues are considered, does a FFL benefit from indirect expenditures. For instance, if the parties only meet at a shop midway between the two and are unlikely to generate return business, does the transaction benefit an FFL located nearer to those parties? Say the seller invests the proceeds in buying another firearm and the buyer purchases ammunition and accessories from their respective local dealers. Consequently, the dealer doing the PPT in Laguna HIlls for a transaction between a Santa Ana seller and a San Diego may find it a loser, but he may benefit from a Santa Ana PPT between a seller from Los Angeles and buyer from Los Alisos.
Still, $10 is ridiculous. |
#12
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For the paperwork, hand holding, risk, space required, time required yes $10.00 is nuts. Was a house $45,000.00 and gas 30 cents a gallon when the $10.00 fee was set?
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I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#13
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There needs to be a Conservative Legislator that's willing to take on the Dealer PPT fee and if nothing more, raise it to meet inflation and Liberal minimum wage concerns. I'll bet if you hired someone at minimum wage to do nothing but PPT he couldn't pay for him/herself.
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American soldier by choice. Made in America by the Grace of God. So, now it is ironic that the State whittles away at the right of its citizens to defend themselves from the possible oppression of their State. Judge Roger T. Benitez LCM's ruled legal 3/29/2019 |
#14
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ShootSoCal Firearms & Training. Gun Store, Training, Cerakote & Gunsmith Our Fullerton store is Open! 714.242.5400 - Info@ShootSoCal.com 10-6 Monday- Saturday, No Appointment needed. 1139 S Placentia Ave Fullerton CA 92831 Glock Optic Cuts Glock, M&P, Shield, CZ and 1911 Starting $125 FFL TRANSFER $50 / Ammo $25 We are hiring GUNSMITH position Factory Trained and Certified CERAKOTE Applicator. View our Online Gun Store here! |
#15
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Seriously, I see taking it away from FFLs but than who? The dmv?? Our rulers show on a daily basis they can't even issue you a drivers license. A background check, while hated, is a good idea.
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#16
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Background checks only keep the honest people honest.. I'm not aware of a single person (so far) that has failed a background check and then was subsequently arrested. So as the saying goes, they don't even enforce the laws on the books.
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#17
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I see your view, but in most of the country this is the norm. Things like having a CCW or a COE in ca or even a C&R help quell those thoughts. But yea im most the country PPTs don’t have much to do with dealers and the ones that do its just a 4473 and a nics check so it’s easier. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ShootSoCal Firearms & Training. Gun Store, Training, Cerakote & Gunsmith Our Fullerton store is Open! 714.242.5400 - Info@ShootSoCal.com 10-6 Monday- Saturday, No Appointment needed. 1139 S Placentia Ave Fullerton CA 92831 Glock Optic Cuts Glock, M&P, Shield, CZ and 1911 Starting $125 FFL TRANSFER $50 / Ammo $25 We are hiring GUNSMITH position Factory Trained and Certified CERAKOTE Applicator. View our Online Gun Store here! |
#18
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In addition to gun he PPT'd to me him and his brother spent about $2000 in the shop and I spent about $300 in ammo. Another time a buyer of mine while waiting for me bought a rifle, place we met at isn't local to him and normally not one he would go to. Really there is no point about whining about having to do a PPT as it is the law and if you don't like it the FFL can just close up shop. Just make the best out of the situation. I do guarantee I will not generally give any business to FFL's that make a PPT difficult and whine. |
#19
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I understand your concern but it shows how people here get a CA mindset and why others in free states hate us especially when we move to their states. |
#20
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I worked at a hunting/fishing store for 5.5 years while in high school in the 70's. Had a 10 day waiting period on handguns, with fingerprints taken on every purchase. The only time we ever heard back on an issue was several months later, which sort of made the whole process useless. Laws are for the law-abiding, at least until they infringe so badly that they create scofflaws.
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NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member Registration is the first step towards confiscation. I identify as Non-Bidenary |
#21
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There are a substantial amount of people who fail the background check. Like 1%. I'd rather have them deal with the background check and fail then get through and shoot up a school. We are losing the PR battle even if the last few shooters should not have been in possession of a firearm and leo dropped the ball.
So many fails....but than there was vegas....that guy fooled everyone.
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#22
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The guy that shot all the cops in Texas bought the gun private party. I don't think he was prohibited either but not sure. The original owner was contacted but he did not commit a crime by federal and Texas law. I'd hate having that scrutiny and attention though. |
#23
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https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/...nials.pdf/view BTW Swan, I check out the guardian Tuesday....I'll give you a review afterward.
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#24
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Good! Give me your address. I’ll send everyone your way. Why don’t you just tell everyone your business address and company name? You can be the PPT king and make a fortune. |
#25
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The Newton guy killed his own mother. Again, the background check just keeps the honest honest. You know what my friends did in high school? They paid people to do straw purchases and then have them report the gun stolen... (Yes I hung around with the wrong crowd and got into trouble, but nothing too bad obviously).. I'm not sure why you're convinced that if Universal Background Checks existed that crime with firearms would just go away.
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UG Imports - Fremont, CA FFL - Transfers, New Gun Sales Closure Schedule: http://ugimports.com/closed web: http://ugimports.com/calguns / email: sales@ugimports.com phone: (510) 371-GUNS (4867) Crowdsourced 2A Calendar I AM THE MAJORITY!!! Amazon Links Posted May be Paid Links |
#26
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Tell me yours so I can never spend a penny there. Are you just the help or you actually own it? Does your boss know you're on here crying about PPT's? If it is so onerous quit or give up the business.
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#27
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Hope you like the gun if not I'm sure you can make your money back. By the way I may have a lead on the KelTec you want but won't be available for a couple of months. It doesn't belong to me. We can PPT it at taperxz's shop haha. |
#28
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Quick. Somebody get a moderator to move this thread to politics and discussion.
__________________
Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price) Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer! Or call 626-968-5900 Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here! |
#29
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Oh. Im only PPTing there from now on.
__________________
Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price) Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer! Or call 626-968-5900 Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here! |
#30
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Got ya |
#32
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PPT Burnout? And the fun is just beginning....
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Hey brother, Here in Idaho, we do ppt’s in parking lots, and have a couple craigslist like sales sites, zidaho and 208guns. No dealers, no nothing. I show the seller my CWP so they know I’m a resident and have had a bg check, but it’s not required. When you start thinking of firearms as personal property and not a government privilege it makes more sense. The less government involvement in my business the better. Should people have to go through the same hassle to sell a used car? A car can easily be as or more dangerous to the public than a firearm in the wrong hands. Just some food for thought and conversation. Now that you mention it though, I may ask any future buyers for their voter registration card. The thought of accidentally selling a gun to a Democrat is kinda scary hahaha. Have a good one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#33
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What shop do you work at? Does your boss know you're on here whining? So I guess the people I've dealt with that bought more stuff or are continued good customers of the shops we've gone to are just figments of my imagination? I've noticed some of the shops here that are popular and have a good rep aren't PPT crybabies. Being as it isn't likely to change that they are required I say make the best of them. Does it always translate in to sales? Of course not. Yesterday I did one and I didn't buy anything additional. But at same shop and I rarely to never go there I have gone there for a PPT and ended up buying two additional guns from their shop I'd of never know were there if not for the PPT. |
#34
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This isn’t whining Einstein, my own books tell me I’m right and you don’t know WTF you are talking about. My thoughts on this is strictly business not emotional like yours. |
#35
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Not emotional at all, as mentioned I've worked in the industry. I seem to have hit a nerve, you sure responded quick, are you subscribed to this thread? Take a big breath, relax, it will all be OK! |
#36
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No fighting please.
What I'm trying to ascertain is how badly the PPT thing is hurting FFLs. I think at $10.00 it's choking the life out of gun stores. You need an employee or two to just deal with transfers. What's the solution? Is it a kiosk system to relieve the clerk of some of the paperwork process? Is it an increase in the $10.00 fee? Background checks ARENT going away in California . It's chicken ship for a guy from Idaho to rub it in our noses because they don't have dealer mandated transfers. Like he himself wrote his states laws. It's an easy and unfair cheap shot and really counter productive to this thread about OUR issues we need to deal with. Does he feel superior as a human being because of his states gun rules. I think any post like that should be met with a lifetime ban on calguns as it really is just taunting. Bottom line is the PPT process is the scourge of gun owners and gun sellers alike. How do we fix it? How do we make it more palatable and less onerous on FFLs????
__________________
I love America for the rights and freedoms we used to have. |
#37
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Its also funny you got dragged into the conversation without chiming in on the thread. I'm dying over here!
__________________
Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price) Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer! Or call 626-968-5900 Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here! |
#38
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I am in fact a vendor on this forum but. I choose to keep my personal screen name separate from my business name. If you’re going to continue bashing FFLs on their business opinions here I’m sure the mods will be more than happy to block this forum for you. I treat all customers with respect and do many PPTs. You’re implying I or my employees whine about them. That’s a fallacious statement. I said, they are in fact a money loser. They are! With that said, we are required to do them and it’s a part of our CA dealer agreement. We knew that going into the business. |
#39
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Where did I Whine about doing them? I simply stated that they are not a profitable part of the business. |
#40
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I was just thinking, at 10 bucks, with with costs and overhead, if we do 20 PPTs I might be able to buy myself a a NUMBER 1 with McNuggets at McDonalds SERIOUSLY
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