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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#601
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Hi.
I've read all of this and I'm still confused. I want to purchase a C&R (it's about 70 years old) rifle that was originally manufactured as a SBR. The rifle has been removed from the NFA list because of it's collector interest and is now a C&R. What do I have to do to get it into this state legally? Thanks Bob Last edited by MARVIN GARDENS; 05-10-2010 at 11:01 PM.. |
#602
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I spoke with the Sheriff today and he stated he would sign a Form 4 for me. I also spoke to a superior court judge earlier this week, just in case, and he will sign a form 4. I have a dealer willing to transfer for $100 and a seller in Texas with a Remington 870 MCS AOW. I'm so excited, I'm gonna pee. Hopefully by mid August I'll have the thing. I can't wait to walk into the local range and have them crap their pants when I bring it out of the case. They are (a-holes) so the look will be priceless. It will be worth the $10 even if they won't let me shoot it. Yes, yes I'll post pics when I have it in hand. I will even let some local calgunners in the north/east bay shoot it if they want.
Last edited by Calm Down; 05-13-2010 at 9:44 PM.. Reason: add pic |
#603
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oh this... It's a Single Cylinder - Single Stroke,
Internal Combustion Engine, with a Free Floating Piston... |
#604
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you lucky SOB. |
#605
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if it were me, I'd keep that info under wraps until after he signs the Form 4. Wouldn't want someone to get to his ear and change his mind.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#606
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So true... Let us know when u can...
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oh this... It's a Single Cylinder - Single Stroke,
Internal Combustion Engine, with a Free Floating Piston... |
#607
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I will refrain from naming names. But as an update, I purchased the gun from Bachman Pawn & Gun in Texas last week. The form 3 was sent to ATF on6/01. Hopefully it will be approved by ATF in the next two weeks and sent to my dealer, then I can complete my form 4. Another 10-12 weeks I should have it in hand. I have the fingerprint cards but need the passport photos. I have yet to tell my wife of the purchase, though she knows I've been wanting one for two years. I'll have to find the right time in the next three weeks before the credit card bill comes ($759+ $100 transfer). Hopefully a bottle of wine and a foot rub will make it easier for her to hear. Yes, I'm slightly whipped so be nice.
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#608
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I finally finished reading this entire thread and thank you all for the great info and advice. I was totally excited when I began reading about the idea of turning a C&R into a sbs and Im totally bummed that I am no longer able to. But on a positive note Its awesome that some california dealers are starting to offer aow's. I think calguns is doing a great job about spreading information to create positive change. I think my first project will be an AR pistol aow. If anyone knows any dealers in the San Francisco Bay Area that sell stripped AR-15 lowers marked "pistol" or "pistol only" please let me know where. Thanks. Ps. I am aware that the pistol marking is not mandatory however it does give me some piece of mind.
Chase |
#609
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Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#610
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I've always wondered since I haven't remotely researched the topic lately, but can one follow the same method for converting an AR pistol to AOW status to affix a VPG?
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The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing. |
#611
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sure can. I know at least one AK pistol was VFG'ed after an approved AOW Form 1. pistol AW regs still apply, so still have to keep the mag lock and <11-round mags.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#612
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Oh the temptation! I would love to make it uber-evil now...
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The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing. |
#613
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However, you can roll your own from an 80%'er...
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oh this... It's a Single Cylinder - Single Stroke,
Internal Combustion Engine, with a Free Floating Piston... |
#614
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Yep. Z me fly is doing his 2nd round GB on them now...
Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#615
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Why is that? if it is legal to create an AR pistol from a virgin lower why would it matter whether or not it says "pistol" on it? I know of a few stores in california that sell entire AR pistols but i would like to build my own.
Last edited by chaseface; 06-07-2010 at 4:19 PM.. |
#616
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those AR-pistols that you see for sale in some stores in CA are configured into a roster-exempt configuration so that they can be DROSed as a handgun and still comply with the roster regulations. A stripped lower DROSed as a pistol doesn't comply with the roster regulations.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#617
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I must be missing some part of this conversation. Because you most certainly can DROS a virgin non-pistol marked lower as a handgun. It just has to be assembled into a pistol first. If ordering online from an out of state dealer, simply ship them your upper, parts kit, bullet button and single shot bob-sled and have them assemble it for you before sending it to your local FFL for DROS.
In fact, as far as I know even if it is marked PISTOL, it still must be assembled and rendered a single shot before you DROS it. Simply saying PISTOL on the side of it does not make any difference at all. It has nothing to do with anything. I do agree, you can't just bring in a bunch of unassembled virgin or pistol marked lowers and DROS them as handguns. But if they are assembled before the hit your FFL, then you're perfectly fine regardless of how they are marked. This is common knowledge my friend. |
#618
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#619
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Engraved "Pistol" has no legal significance...
You will not find any AR styled pistols on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale... So when you DROS the virgin lower as a pistol it will be rejected unless you are a LEO... Unless it is already properly configured and exempt... You should do some research on the single shot exemption, and the DROS process...
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oh this... It's a Single Cylinder - Single Stroke,
Internal Combustion Engine, with a Free Floating Piston... |
#621
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#622
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Because of that, you have ot buy a complete AR-pistol. You can't buy the lower and then add your own upper later, it must be complete when you DROS it.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#623
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#624
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yes, there is no law that says you can't modify a handgun you own from one type of handgun to another, provided that you don't violate some other law in the process, such as make an AW or AOW out of it (and you can AOW it if you have an approved Form 1 first).
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#625
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Ok cool. One more question. I understand the whole Trust thing, and that if you want to create an AOW it makes like a lot easier. But how do you buy an AOW such as the super shorty from OC arms?? it is my understanding that you have to buy a gun and then transfer it to the trust, and that trusts themselves cannot purchase a gun? am i correct? and how else can this be dealt with?
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#626
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you are buying it on behalf of the trust. YOu fill out the DROS and the 4473 in your name and include a letter stating that you are buying it on behalf of the trust. that is the way that the feds want it done.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#628
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Bachman Pawn called me this morning. The Form 3 was approved and they are shipping MCS AOW today. It should be at my dealer either tomorrow (I'm not sure if it's an overnight ship) or I'll see it Tuesday. I completed my fingerprint cards and obtained my passport photos. I'll have the dealer help me with the Form 4 and have it signed by my CLEO by next Friday. Then the uneasy wait will begin for 8-12 weeks. I'll post a pic next week when it gets in. Sean at Bachman Pawn sold me the last one he had and they're not ordering anymore; however there is one for sale on gunbroker for $900.http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=173198572
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#629
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sweet
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#630
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HMM-161 Westpac 1994 |
#631
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[IMG][/IMG] |
#632
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cane guns are AOW.
ATF considers a firearm inside a firing briefcase to be an AOW, but the way that ATF registers the firearm as the AOW, and not the container may not provide an exemption to CA's ban on "camoflaging firearms containers".
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#633
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I wonder if you can get the receiver and build it as a AOW? Does the bore size matter? I know the tubes are easy to get but the receivers are available new.
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HMM-161 Westpac 1994 |
#634
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Not sure if they would take the same position on a 40mm smoothbore pistol being an AOW or if they would call it a DD. Now, you might be able to put a 12ga barrel on it and call it an AOW. edit: in any case, I assume that CA would call it a DD if it had a 40mm barrel, and the AOW exemption does not cover DDs.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#635
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Please take a look at this web site before allowing others to fire your NFA firearm: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/how-to...-class-3-fire/ "The NFA defines who can own a Title II firearm as a natural person, corporation or trust.... When an individual makes application to own a Title II firearm they are the only person who can be in possession or have access to the firearm. This creates a problem for many individuals who are married, have others who know the combination or how to gain access to the items, or want to allow others to use the firearms, even in their presence." IANAL, but this suggests to me that only you can shoot your NFA firearm. |
#636
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Now, it may not be kosher for him to go to the range and let his buddies shoot his stuff while he goes to the main office or the pro shop. But as long as he is there on the line, it isn't a problem.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#637
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My MCS arrived today. I did not get a chance to see it before it was put in a safe. I was told via telephone by the owner that only he can removed it from the safe and his employees don't have access to NFA weapons. I have to make an appointment for next week to complete the Form 4 and visit my gun when the owner is present. The anticipation is killing me.
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#638
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I met my gun today, she's beautiful. The Form 4 is filled out awaiting CLEO signature, FBI cards complete and passport photos taken. The dealer said it is taking between 3-6 months for ATF to complete forms. So sometime between my birthday and Christmas, I will take possession. I shall name her Beyonce.
Last edited by Calm Down; 06-22-2010 at 7:36 PM.. Reason: add |
#639
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#640
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I am glad people are exercising their rights. Someday, I will do this too.
Because I can.
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NRA Benefactor Life Member 01 Dealer Redding, CA US Army MP Corps Veteran Former NRA Pistol Coach Level 3 I am always looking for Beretta D models in 9mm or a Compact Type M. |
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