Rejoined the ranks of the National militia with a new Ruger Mini 14

[hks95134]

Originally Posted by G21Shooter

...For a home/self defense rifle, the Mini 14 is hard to beat. Like you said no bullet button to deal with. My ARs are just toys for me, my Mini is what is loaded next to my Mossberg 500 in the closet.

As I think through the various scenario's, and try to fit the 5.56 mm cartridge into a tactical defense plan, it strikes me that the scenario played out in One Second After, the novel by Forstchen, is the most likely.

In other words, you are holed up in your local community struggling to make the food supplies last, and at some point armed roving marauders like out of some Mad Max movie come to take over your community, kill and eat everyone, and take over your supplies.

I don't think of the 5.56 mm as a home defense cartridge. It is more of a tactical offensive rifle, as in sturmgewehr -- a storming weapon.

For home defense, clearly the Mossberg or Remington 12 gauges are the most superior, especially with double-aught buckshot if you really do NOT want to mess around. And in this case your pistol really becomes a back up simply in case the shotgun jams.

I normally rely on my pistol alone for home defense, and my 12 gauge in case there is a local riot and I need to pump out double-aught buckshot to turn the mob around before they get close enough to firebomb me.

I needed something between the shotgun and the scoped rifle, from 25 to 200 yards, and the Ruger Mini 14 is perfect for that.

If the Federal Government ever capitulates like the USSR did, and the State Governor takes over the political leadership locally, there won't be enough National Guardsmen to go around. That is when the Governor would need our help.

After reading One Second After, I have changed my mind about the usefulness of the tactical carbine rifles. Now I think everybody should have at least one.

I can see myself filling the roll of Sgt Washington in the novel -- training college kids to become a militia. In that case, I would carry my pistol and my shotgun myself, and donate my scoped rifle and my Ruger Mini 14 to 2 kids and teach them how to use them.

[hks95134]

Originally Posted by wxl

As one review I read on the new Mini 14, people with no trigger time on the new Mini's continue to spread rumors that no longer apply to the new Mini's. For one, 20/30 rd mags are on sale about every other week on Midway or CDNN, but unfortunately we can't buy them in Ca, but they are plentiful everywhere else. I have two Mini's, one I bought 25 years ago and with some minor mods it shoots very well. At Angeles I can hit the 18'X24" plate every time with the factory sights. My daughter has a new 581 stainless and she can hit the 400 yd 18X24" plate 10 for 10 with Techsights. I can do the same thing with the 581 when I put a red dot on it with my old eyes. Have never tried 500 yds, might try doing that the next time we go. Never tried it because I'm not sure if the 223 was an effective round at 500 yds. I did talk to one guy at the range that said he shoots out to 500 yds with his but he had a scope on it. One thing for sure neither one of the Mini's will jam with factory mags.

As soon as my Mini gets out of jail, I am looking forward to bore-sighting it with my laser bore-sighter and testing it on the 200 yd range on Metcalf road.

Then I'll put a mill dot scope on it, so I can lead moving targets with it as well.

[wxl]

Originally Posted by hks95134

As soon as my Mini gets out of jail, I am looking forward to bore-sighting it with my laser bore-sighter and testing it on the 200 yd range on Metcalf road.

Then I'll put a mill dot scope on it, so I can lead moving targets with it as well.

You traded one great gun for another great gun. Since I started shooting with my daughter and her Mini, I hardly ever shoot my hand guns anymore. I think I'll bring my Model 27 with me next time just to remind myself how much I like the old S&W's as well. Have fun with your new Mini, it's a blast.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by wxl

As one review I read on the new Mini 14 said, people with no trigger time on the new Mini's continue to spread rumors that no longer apply to the new Mini's.

At Angeles I can hit the 18'X24" plate every time with the factory sights at 300 yds. My daughter has a new 581 stainless and she can hit the 400 yd 18X24" plate 10 for 10 with Techsights.

So, you're at ~6 moa, your daughter at ~4.5 moa with new sights.

Sounds like no improvement between old and new mini's. Or, am I missing something?

Originally Posted by hks95134

As I think through the various scenario's, and try to fit the 5.56 mm cartridge into a tactical defense plan, it strikes me that the scenario played out in One Second After, the novel by Forstchen, is the most likely.

In other words, you are holed up in your local community struggling to make the food supplies last, and at some point armed roving marauders like out of some Mad Max movie come to take over your community, kill and eat everyone, and take over your supplies.

I don't think of the 5.56 mm as a home defense cartridge. It is more of a tactical offensive rifle, as in sturmgewehr -- a storming weapon.

For home defense, clearly the Mossberg or Remington 12 gauges are the most superior, especially with double-aught buckshot if you really do NOT want to mess around. And in this case your pistol really becomes a back up simply in case the shotgun jams.

I normally rely on my pistol alone for home defense, and my 12 gauge in case there is a local riot and I need to pump out double-aught buckshot to turn the mob around before they get close enough to firebomb me.

I needed something between the shotgun and the scoped rifle, from 25 to 200 yards, and the Ruger Mini 14 is perfect for that.

If the Federal Government ever capitulates like the USSR did, and the State Governor takes over the political leadership locally, there won't be enough National Guardsmen to go around. That is when the Governor would need our help.

After reading One Second After, I have changed my mind about the usefulness of the tactical carbine rifles. Now I think everybody should have at least one.

I can see myself filling the roll of Sgt Washington in the novel -- training college kids to become a militia. In that case, I would carry my pistol and my shotgun myself, and donate my scoped rifle and my Ruger Mini 14 to 2 kids and teach them how to use them.

This resembles something like a bad acid trip.

"Storming weapons" are typically not semi-automatic, and are certainly not Mini 14-based.

Make sure you train those college kids that 6-8 rounds of 12ga may not be enough "to turn the mob around before they get close enough to firebomb me".

[russ69]

Originally Posted by -hanko

So, you're at ~6 moa, your daughter at ~4.5 moa with new sights. Sounds like no improvement between old and new mini's. Or, am I missing something?

The new mini is a real improvement. I had an original and I have two of the new ones. Mine shoots great. In fact it's as good as any 16 inch AR15 (well most anyway). The limitations being the short sight radius. If you like the basic concept of a mini14 you will really like the latest version.

[TMB 1]

Originally Posted by -hanko

So, you're at ~6 moa, your daughter at ~4.5 moa with new sights.
Sounds like no improvement between old and new mini's. Or, am I missing something?

How'd you come up with those figures with an 18"x24" steel plate?

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by TMB 1

How'd you come up with those figures with an 18"x24" steel plate?

18" at 300 yds, same moa as 6" at 100 yds... 18 / 3 = 6.

Similar calculation on the 400 yd. shot...18 / 4 = 4.5

Did I blow it??

Back OT...I thought the minimum for Army qualification was 4 moa max.

-hanko

[TMB 1]

Originally Posted by -hanko

18" at 300 yds, same moa as 6" at 100 yds... 18 / 3 = 6.

Similar calculation on the 400 yd. shot...18 / 4 = 4.5

Did I blow it??

Back OT...I thought the minimum for Army qualification was 4 moa max.

-hanko

Oh. So say I can hit an 18"x24" steel plate every time at 50 yards. That determines the degree of accuracy my rifle has?

[FiveSeven]

Some weird, weird if not corny fantasy dreaming going on here.

[hks95134]

Originally Posted by russ69

The new mini is a real improvement. I had an original and I have two of the new ones. Mine shoots great. In fact it's as good as any 16 inch AR15 (well most anyway). The limitations being the short sight radius. If you like the basic concept of a mini14 you will really like the latest version.

Yes, I do love the basic concept of the M-14 mechanism applied to the 5.56 mm cartridge.

I will deal with the short sight radius simply by putting a scope on it.

[shadow65]

Originally Posted by Ninask

The Ruger Mini-14 is a cool gun but accurate to 500 yards?
N

Uhm, no.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by TMB 1

Oh. So say I can hit an 18"x24" steel plate every time at 50 yards. That determines the degree of accuracy my rifle has?

That determines that your weapon is capable of 36 moa...question is then how close the bullet strikes are to each other on the plate.

You may want to try an Army Qualification Target, aka "AQT".

Google.

Print some targets, see whatcha' get.

If you can't hit that plate at 50 yards, you might consider another hobby, or a training class or 2.

An Appleseed class is never a waste of your time.

[VQ209]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Some weird, weird if not corny fantasy dreaming going on here.

Thank you! I thought I was the only one thinking that.

[TMB 1]

Originally Posted by -hanko

That determines that your weapon is capable of 36 moa...question is then how close the bullet strikes are to each other on the plate.

You may want to try an Army Qualification Target, aka "AQT".

Google.

Print some targets, see whatcha' get.

If you can't hit that plate at 50 yards, you might consider another hobby, or a training class or 2.

An Appleseed class is never a waste of your time.

Ah ok, just wondered how you came up with that. I don't think I need any classes. On a good day I can do that at 500 yards every time right handed & 80% of the time left handed, but I have a couple friends that can't hit it at all at 500 but every time at 300 yards or less, so I guess the accuracy of my rifle is all over the place.

[G21Shooter]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Some weird, weird if not corny fantasy dreaming going on here.

Be nice, common now lots of people justify buying guns for SHTF purposes… its unlikely people will ever need their guns for "SHTF" but its comforting to know your somewhat prepared to protect yourself and others.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by TMB 1

Ah ok, just wondered how you came up with that. I don't think I need any classes. On a good day I can do that at 500 yards every time right handed & 80% of the time left handed, but I have a couple friends that can't hit it at all at 500 but every time at 300 yards or less, so I guess the accuracy of my rifle is all over the place.

I love plate shooting. But you could say it's equivalent to popping cans or milk jugs or watermelons, just usually farther away.

Originally Posted by G21Shooter

Be nice, common now lots of people justify buying guns for SHTF purposes… its unlikely people will ever need their guns for "SHTF" but its comforting to know your somewhat prepared to protect yourself and others.

I'm getting zero or less feeling of comfort from this thread

[GW]

Originally Posted by -hanko

18" at 300 yds, same moa as 6" at 100 yds... 18 / 3 = 6.

Similar calculation on the 400 yd. shot...18 / 4 = 4.5

Did I blow it??

Back OT...I thought the minimum for Army qualification was 4 moa max.

-hanko

Well, you made an assumption as to how the targets were getting hit. The writer never said how tight or loose the grouping was, nor how the rifle was shot i.e. offhand or off a benchrest.
All we know is they are hitting it--- So Good for them!

[wxl]

I really only want two things out of a gun. First it's more accurate than me and second it doesn't jam. The Mini meets both of my criteria exceptionally well. Oh, a third requirement is that it's fun to shoot. The Mini meets this criteria better than any of the other 18 guns I own. As to SHTF, it may be a fantasy, but ask the Korean business owners during the LA riots what they think of their Mini's.

[GW]

^^^ +1
And that is that!

[hks95134]

Originally Posted by G21Shooter

Be nice, common now lots of people justify buying guns for SHTF purposes… its unlikely people will ever need their guns for "SHTF" but its comforting to know your somewhat prepared to protect yourself and others.

Yup, especially after you read One Second After. That's probably what will eventually happen here in the USA anyway, or else a similar to USSR scenario.

The 5.56 mm carbines are primarily anti-carbine defense weapons. They are designed and intended for engagements within the range of 150 to 5 yards, with any shotgun working better than they do within 25 yards. If someone is coming at you with one of theirs, you need one of your own in order to be able to engage them from 150 to 25 yards. That range of distance is a blind spot for a shotgun or a scoped bolt action rifle. I already have the shotgun and the bolt action.

I muse at Ruger's notion of a "ranch" rifle, because on an actual ranch you are still better off with a scoped bolt action for varmint-ing. But it too is a popular concept.

There is enough fantasy to go around, making the 5.56 mm carbines and their 7.62 Asian cousins the most popular rifles sold today. Anytime you go to a firing range, almost everything you see is an AR or an AK.

I got the Ruger simply because I believe it to be superior to all the others.

[G21Shooter]

Bottom line, its your right to own a semi auto rifle for whatever reason you want. The more people that exercise this right, the better. You are correct, if someone is shooting at you with a semi auto rifle, your only chance is having your own to shoot back.

The Mini 14 no doubt is a great weapon, its primary advantage is it has the firepower of a AR without the scary look. Thats why I like mine.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by GW

Well, you made an assumption as to how the targets were getting hit. The writer never said how tight or loose the grouping was, nor how the rifle was shot i.e. offhand or off a benchrest.
All we know is they are hitting it--- So Good for them!

And given no info on group size but noting only plate hits, that's all I had to go on.

Originally Posted by hks95134

Yup, especially after you read One Second After. That's probably what will eventually happen here in the USA anyway, or else a similar to USSR scenario.

The 5.56 mm carbines are primarily anti-carbine defense weapons. They are designed and intended for engagements within the range of 150 to 5 yards, with any shotgun working better than they do within 25 yards. If someone is coming at you with one of theirs, you need one of your own in order to be able to engage them from 150 to 25 yards. That range of distance is a blind spot for a shotgun or a scoped bolt action rifle. I already have the shotgun and the bolt action.

I muse at Ruger's notion of a "ranch" rifle, because on an actual ranch you are still better off with a scoped bolt action for varmint-ing. But it too is a popular concept.

There is enough fantasy to go around, making the 5.56 mm carbines and their 7.62 Asian cousins the most popular rifles sold today. Anytime you go to a firing range, almost everything you see is an AR or an AK.

I got the Ruger simply because I believe it to be superior to all the others.

A "ranch" rifle is not only a varmint rifle, if by that you mean long shots.

I may need to kill a skunk 25 feet away, I may need to dump a coyote at a hundred yards. Ruger's caliber is OK for ranch-related shooting. Most of my shooting turns out to be easily handled by a Timberwolf in .357. But for magpies I need a 20ga, so you never know.

OP, I like your enthusiasm. You might think about joining the California State Military Reserve...surprised no one's suggested it yet. http://www.calguard.ca.gov/CSMR
hth, good luck

[ScottsBad]

Originally Posted by hks95134

As soon as my Mini gets out of jail, I am looking forward to bore-sighting it with my laser bore-sighter and testing it on the 200 yd range on Metcalf road.
.

My experience is that new Minis sights are spot on at 50 yards out of the box.

[ScottsBad]

Originally Posted by hks95134

The 5.56 mm carbines are primarily anti-carbine defense weapons. They are designed and intended for engagements within the range of 150 to 5 yards, with any shotgun working better than they do within 25 yards. If someone is coming at you with one of theirs, you need one of your own in order to be able to engage them from 150 to 25 yards. That range of distance is a blind spot for a shotgun or a scoped bolt action rifle. I already have the shotgun and the bolt action.

I muse at Ruger's notion of a "ranch" rifle, because on an actual ranch you are still better off with a scoped bolt action for varmint-ing. But it too is a popular concept.

There is enough fantasy to go around, making the 5.56 mm carbines and their 7.62 Asian cousins the most popular rifles sold today. Anytime you go to a firing range, almost everything you see is an AR or an AK.

I got the Ruger simply because I believe it to be superior to all the others.

I just want to disagree with you on a couple points. Sure a shotgun is a good home defense weapon and I used to think it superior to a Mini or an AR, but over time I've come to realize the advantage of the small carbine.

The main advantage of a shotgun is reliability and stopping power. The downside is size/weight, capacity and reloading.

The main advantage of the AR/Mini-14 is capacity, and size/weight. The downside is a little lower stopping power.

When I looked at how I would use the two to engage threats inside and outside the home I discovered that the AR/Mini-14 type platform is superior, especially inside the home. AND they are easier to mount lights on. They are also shorter.

The carbines are easier to maneuver, have higher capacity and are just as effective due to the larger capacity and ease of loading.

So, I've changed my position over the years from pistol and shotgun for home defense to pistol and carbine.

I used to think shotguns were the way to go because they make a large pattern and make it less likely I'd miss. But the truth is that at distances found in the home it is nearly as easy to miss with a shotgun as it is with an AR or Mini-14.

Finally, I used to believe that the Mini-14 is superior and I own some both new and old versions. The I bought my first AR and then second and so on....

While I continue to love the mini for what it offers, the AR has ergonomics, accuracy, and modularity going for it.

I love the Mini-14 because it is handy, fun to shoot, doesn't require a bullet button (if equipped properly) and doesn't look as SCARY to some. But it is not accurate with much of the ammo out there. I found that it shoots quite well with light 50Grain Black Hills with VMAX bullet, but that is expensive ammo with a light bullet. I can shoot fairly small groups with it, but it is just too expensive.

When I shoot M855 or M193 the groups open up. Which means the rifle is fine for home defense because it is functionally accurate kind of like an AK, but it is not as good for shots where the margin for safety is smaller.

The AR is very effective from 0 to 300 yards, the Mini-14 from 0 to maybe 150 yards. JMHO---

[Rickrock1]

Originally Posted by hks95134

Today I traded-in my S&W Model 29 8 3/8ths revolver (a hunting gun) on a new Ruger Mini 14 5.56 mm NATO semi auto carbine, rejoining the ranks of the US militia.

Having read One Second After, the novel by Forstchen, I can see where if SHTF we will each need scoped hunting rifles, semi auto carbines, tactical shotguns, and pistols, to weather the storm, when it comes.

I love the Ruger Mini 14 for the following reasons:

- if SHTF and your governor calls for help to assist the National Guard, you and I will need to show up with rifles in calibers that the Guard uses, namely 5.56mm NATO or 7.62mm NATO;

- the Mini 14 uses the floating open bolt design of the M-1 Garand and the M-14 but in 5.56 mm NATO;

- there is NO BULLET BUTTON requirement on the Rugers in California so this B/S is not applicable to it;

- it comes with scope rings allowing me to mount a mill dot scope for extreme accuracy out to 500 yards.

I used to have a Mini-14 back in 1976 to 1986 until I burned out the barrel on several thousand rounds of surplus military ammo.

It's good to be back with a brand new out of the box 5.56mm NATO carbine.

That's Funny that you burned out you barrel in 10 years using surplus ammo. I happened to have owned my Ranch since at or around 1986 and I still shoot this today without any problems.

In the last 10 years that's the majority of ammo that I shoot is steel rUssian ammo.

For the Lestist regime and Trolls reading, Get a life and don't tread on us.......

[hks95134]

Originally Posted by ScottsBad

I just want to disagree with you on a couple points. Sure a shotgun is a good home defense weapon and I used to think it superior to a Mini or an AR, but over time I've come to realize the advantage of the small carbine.

The main advantage of a shotgun is reliability and stopping power. The downside is size/weight, capacity and reloading.

The main advantage of the AR/Mini-14 is capacity, and size/weight. The downside is a little lower stopping power.

When I looked at how I would use the two to engage threats inside and outside the home I discovered that the AR/Mini-14 type platform is superior, especially inside the home. AND they are easier to mount lights on.

The carbines are easier to maneuver, have higher capacity and are just as effective due to the larger capacity and ease of loading.

So, I've changed my position from pistol and shotgun for home defense to pistol and carbine.

I used to think shotguns were the way to go because they make a large pattern and make it less likely I'd miss. But the truth is that at distance found in the home it is nearly as easy to miss with a shotgun as it is with an AR or Mini-14.

Finally, I used to believe that the Mini-14 is superior and I own some both new and old versions. The I bought my first AR and then second and so on....

While I continue to love the mini for what it offers, the AR has ergonomic, accuracy, and modularity going for it.

I love the Mini-14 because it is handy, fun to shoot, and doesn't look as SCARY to some. But it is not accurate with much of the ammo out there. I found that it shoots quite well with light 50Grain Black Hills with VMAX bullet, but that is expensive ammo with a light bullet. I can shoot fairly small groups with it, but it is just too expensive.

When I shoot M855 or M193 the groups open up. Which means the rifle is fine for home defense because it is functionally kind of like an AK, but it is not as good for shots where the margin for safety is smaller.

The AR is very effective from 0 to 300 yards, the Mini-14 from 0 to maybe 150 yards. JMHO---

Interesting.

The most recent case study we have of someone using an AR in action is the theatre shooter in Colorado -- and his jammed on him.

Which is typical for an AR. When Stoner designed it, I don't know what he was thinking. He had 25 years of history with the M-1 design to come up with a more open bolt, yet he went with something more akin to a pump action shotgun. Crazy.

The Ruger Mini's being built on an open M-1 / M-14 bolt design are easy to clear.

The worst thing that could happen to you in the heat of battle would be to have your AR jam. And there's a strong chance it will happen.

The DC sniper only fired single shots with his, so jamming did not affect him, and his longer shots used the AR's slightly more accurate potential.

For defending your castle, it still seems like the 12 gauge with double-aught buckshot is the best way to go. Mossberg's and Remington's are also closed bolt however, like the AR's, so a backup pistol is a good idea too.

So I am back to shotgun and pistol for home defense.

The Ruger Mini's are great for battling someone with another 5.56 mm or 7/62 mm Russian carbine.

I think these weapons systems should be evaluated based on what they were designed for. I do want a 5.56 mm carbine, but I feel that the Ruger Mini is more reliable than the AR's are.

I'll submit some field tests when mine gets out of jail.

[hks95134]

Originally Posted by Rickrock1

That's Funny that you burned out you barrel in 10 years using surplus ammo. I happened to have owned my Ranch since at or around 1986 and I still shoot this today without any problems.

In the last 10 years that's the majority of ammo that I shoot is steel rUssian ammo.

For the Lestist regime and Trolls reading, Get a life and don't tread on us.......

I'm glad that I have a brand new one now. I miss the old one. But as soon as I get the new one out of jail, it will probably be like deja vu.

[hks95134]

Originally Posted by ScottsBad

My experience is that new Minis sights are spot on at 50 yards out of the box.

The first thing I will do is tear apart the rear sight aperture, then reset it with my laser boresighter.

The next thing I'll to is take it to Metcalf Road and sight it in to 200 yards.

Then I'll see about putting some kind of rings and scope on it.

Out of the box is fine, but I never rely on out of the box.

[1CavScout]

There is some serious FUD in this thread...

[hks95134]

Originally Posted by -hanko

And given no info on group size but noting only plate hits, that's all I had to go on.


A "ranch" rifle is not only a varmint rifle, if by that you mean long shots.

I may need to kill a skunk 25 feet away, I may need to dump a coyote at a hundred yards. Ruger's caliber is OK for ranch-related shooting. Most of my shooting turns out to be easily handled by a Timberwolf in .357. But for magpies I need a 20ga, so you never know.

OP, I like your enthusiasm. You might think about joining the California State Militia...surprised no one's suggested it yet. CA State Militia

hth, good luck

I thought the Calif Penal Code outlaws civilian militias in Cali?

Did I read it wrong? Or did they ease up the statute.

I know Montana has a militia. But that's Montana not Cali.

Cali does not want no competition.

In Forstchen's novel, One Second After, China takes over the US West Coast.

Japan almost could have once not too long ago.

I think Yamamoto talked them out of it though, telling them in America there were guns behind every blade of grass. I like that ... guns behind every blade of grass. We are famous.

[FNH5-7]

OP,

I really like this one:



Thoughts?

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by hks95134

I thought the Calif Penal Code outlaws civilian militias in Cali?

Did I read it wrong? Or did they ease up the statute.

I know Montana has a militia. But that's Montana not Cali.

Cali does not want no competition.

In Forstchen's novel, One Second After, China takes over the US West Coast.

Japan almost could have once not too long ago.

I think Yamamoto talked them out of it though, telling them in America there were guns behind every blade of grass. I like that ... guns behind every blade of grass. We are famous.

OOOps...you did not read it wrong. I was thinking of the California State Military Reserve. There link is here...http://www.calguard.ca.gov/CSMR

Original post updated.

Thanks for the correction.

[MajorSideburns]

here's a helpful reference if you have trouble sighting in at the range:

[Rickrock1]

Originally Posted by 1CavScout

There is some serious FUD in this thread...

^^^^

That's what I say

[GW]

Aww...
You're confusing FUD with youthful exuberance.

[MigNoche]

Originally Posted by hks95134

I actually prefer the open bolt design of the Mini 14 to the closed bolt design of the AR's, M-16 and M-4.

When/if the Mini 14 jams, its quick and easy to clear.

When one of the others jams, then you are in a world of hurt and it's time to switch over to your secondary gun.

AKM FTW

[MigNoche]

Originally Posted by 1CavScout

There is some serious FUD in this thread...

is this Gecko45 using his troll account?

[wxl]

Originally Posted by hks95134

The first thing I will do is tear apart the rear sight aperture, then reset it with my laser boresighter.

The next thing I'll to is take it to Metcalf Road and sight it in to 200 yards.

Then I'll see about putting some kind of rings and scope on it.

Out of the box is fine, but I never rely on out of the box.

You can get rails for the Mini now as well. I think Ruger has them, but GG&G makes a very good one as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Mini-14-Rnch-R...eywords=gg%26g

[Yreka]

Originally Posted by hks95134

As I think through the various scenario's, and try to fit the 5.56 mm cartridge into a tactical defense plan, it strikes me that the scenario played out in One Second After, the novel by Forstchen, is the most likely.

In other words, you are holed up in your local community struggling to make the food supplies last, and at some point armed roving marauders like out of some Mad Max movie come to take over your community, kill and eat everyone, and take over your supplies.

I don't think of the 5.56 mm as a home defense cartridge. It is more of a tactical offensive rifle, as in sturmgewehr -- a storming weapon.

For home defense, clearly the Mossberg or Remington 12 gauges are the most superior, especially with double-aught buckshot if you really do NOT want to mess around. And in this case your pistol really becomes a back up simply in case the shotgun jams.

I normally rely on my pistol alone for home defense, and my 12 gauge in case there is a local riot and I need to pump out double-aught buckshot to turn the mob around before they get close enough to firebomb me.

I needed something between the shotgun and the scoped rifle, from 25 to 200 yards, and the Ruger Mini 14 is perfect for that.

If the Federal Government ever capitulates like the USSR did, and the State Governor takes over the political leadership locally, there won't be enough National Guardsmen to go around. That is when the Governor would need our help.

After reading One Second After, I have changed my mind about the usefulness of the tactical carbine rifles. Now I think everybody should have at least one.

I can see myself filling the roll of Sgt Washington in the novel -- training college kids to become a militia. In that case, I would carry my pistol and my shotgun myself, and donate my scoped rifle and my Ruger Mini 14 to 2 kids and teach them how to use them.

[desertrider]

Originally Posted by hks95134

Interesting.

The most recent case study we have of someone using an AR in action is the theatre shooter in Colorado -- and his jammed on him.

Which is typical for an AR. When Stoner designed it, I don't know what he was thinking. He had 25 years of history with the M-1 design to come up with a more open bolt, yet he went with something more akin to a pump action shotgun. Crazy.

The Ruger Mini's being built on an open M-1 / M-14 bolt design are easy to clear.

The worst thing that could happen to you in the heat of battle would be to have your AR jam. And there's a strong chance it will happen.

The DC sniper only fired single shots with his, so jamming did not affect him, and his longer shots used the AR's slightly more accurate potential.

For defending your castle, it still seems like the 12 gauge with double-aught buckshot is the best way to go. Mossberg's and Remington's are also closed bolt however, like the AR's, so a backup pistol is a good idea too.

So I am back to shotgun and pistol for home defense.

The Ruger Mini's are great for battling someone with another 5.56 mm or 7/62 mm Russian carbine.

I think these weapons systems should be evaluated based on what they were designed for. I do want a 5.56 mm carbine, but I feel that the Ruger Mini is more reliable than the AR's are.

I'll submit some field tests when mine gets out of jail.

Look, it's about 2am Sat morning and I've been nursing the better part of a twelver of Spaten since about 10pm.

I started reading this thread with an open and non judgmental mindset encouraged by the enthusiasm of a person anxiously awaiting the arrival of a new rifle.

However, the more I read, the more disillusioned I became.

I own a 195 series RR that I've had since '98. Also have three different AR's. Over the last seventeen or so years I have sent a whole bunch of lead down range. I don't know, at least 10k+ rounds of everything from actual milsurp SA battlepack stuff to domestic new production,, to Wolf. CWhatever, you name it.

I even let one of my AR's, an A2, get godawful filthy, intentionally. I mean like I never cleaned the gas system at all for about 4k rounds of use, including the chamber. Yup, didn't even use a chamber brush on it to clean the lugs. Never scraped any carbon off the gas key or the FP either. It was my dirty, nasty, filthy *****.

I can honestly say that not one of my AR's, including that A2, ever jammed on me.

All my AR's are DI, I chose to run my A2 dirty because of all the hoopla about the benefits (maintenance wise) surrounding piston uppers. I'm not knocking piston AR's, I just wanted to see how long I could run an AR without maintenance before a malfunction.

Well the malfunction never occurred, and I decided to end the "test" at about 4k rounds because it was just getting stupid by that point.

So your position is that my AR's are jam-o-matics and that you can achieve
"extreme accuracy" out to 500 yards with your Mini by the simple addition of a mildot scope. And a shotgun is a superior HD weapon.

mmkay.