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  #1  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:15 AM
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Default Trespassing or B&E?

My property is completey fenced/gated and locked 24/7. If someone jumps/hopps my fence/gate and does damage to my fence or gate, i.e.bend top/rail are they guilty of a crime? Trespassing or breaking and entering?
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Last edited by shortyforty; 07-27-2012 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 07-27-2012, 2:03 AM
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Vandalism and trespassing. Both are misdemeanors. Hopefully some of our senior Officers can chime in here too. I've always been confused with the signage requirements under the 602(L) PC - Trespassing.

Last edited by NuGunner; 07-27-2012 at 2:05 AM..
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2012, 2:13 AM
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FYI, there is no crime of "B&E" or breaking and entering in California. That's a tv term, just like the word "collar" for an arrest. In 32 years of LE the only time I heard the word collar used was on tv.

You have burglary, which involves a structure or in your case, a trespass. The damage to the fence might be vandalism, depending on the circumstances.
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Old 07-27-2012, 2:24 AM
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The sceniero, as stated, is trespass with vandalism IMO. PC459 burglary would require the person to be entering with the intent to commit theft or any other felony. If they hopped a fence that's trespass which falls under PC602. Google those PC and interpret for yourself.
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Old 07-27-2012, 8:39 AM
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As you stand there and watch them jump your fence, Burglary just isn't there. You have misd vandalism at best so far.

When you go outside and tell at them to get off your property, and they don't, now you have trespassing also. Other thing can complete trespassing also, like signage.

Every situation is different, because who is involved is different, making the entire situation unique.

Are we talking about kids who threw a ball over a fence, hobos with no purpose, or a gangster running from the cops?
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Old 07-27-2012, 8:40 AM
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Like others have said Trespassing as long as there are signs. The damage to the fence has to be intentional for vandalism if I recall correctly. If it was damaged as someone climbed over it then it is included in the trespassing charge.
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Old 07-27-2012, 8:48 AM
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Clearly a fence is meant to keep people out. Why is a sign necessary?
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Old 07-27-2012, 9:02 AM
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Based on the scenario given....I'm voting for no crime at all.
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Old 07-27-2012, 9:17 AM
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Trespass is not always a crime. I do it almost daily as part of my job. I have the legal right to do so whenever and wherever I need to. No probable cause, no warrant, no easement, etc. So, the real answer to your question is not as cut and dry as you might like it to be.
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Old 07-27-2012, 9:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Trespass is not always a crime. I do it almost daily as part of my job. I have the legal right to do so whenever and wherever I need to. No probable cause, no warrant, no easement, etc. So, the real answer to your question is not as cut and dry as you might like it to be.
Where do you work?
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  #11  
Old 07-27-2012, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaandrade3rd View Post
Clearly a fence is meant to keep people out. Why is a sign necessary?
A fence can just as easily be meant to keep people in.

It can also be used to delineate a boundary or define an area
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:14 AM
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Crimes have elements. If you read the penal codes, you will see. All elements have to be met for the crime to be chargeable and "complete".

Part of the elements of trespassing is you (or your signs or equivalent) make it clear to someone they aren't allowed in.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:17 AM
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Oh yea, fences are also designed to keep dogs in.

Without any more details, I'm not arresting anyone.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:37 AM
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...and don't be this guy in FL who had a very different understanding

Florida man kills door-to-door salesman: I’ll kill anybody that steps on my property

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/2...n-my-property/
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWalkerM View Post
Where do you work?
Google "California surveyor's right of entry". Of course, that does not allow anyone to damage another's property.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:12 AM
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Default Fence

Thanks for the replies all. My fence serves as a perimeter and boundary marker that is supposed to convey a message of "keep out!" as well as keep my dogs within that perimeter. It has done a fine job thus far. I admittedly do not have the appropriate signage but that will change shortly. My reason for posting such a question in the L.E. forum was just to get clarification on possible crimes that could be commited by scaling or damaging my fence. The Sheriffs Dept. recently came by to notify me of a new "neighbor" that was recently released from prison and had taken up residence within eye-shot of my home. I was already aware of this person's presence because I frequent the Megan's law website in an effort to stay aprised of potential offenders in my area. The deputy seemed extremely concerned and the "flyer" or public notification read "WARNING SEXUALLY VIOLENT PREDATOR". I realize that a fence will not keep anyone off of my property that intends to trespass or do me or my family harm and have no illusions otherwise. It seems that If someone did scale the fence who was on probation or parole, they MAYBEguilty of a crime and MAYBE subject to re-incareration?
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Last edited by shortyforty; 04-05-2016 at 2:54 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:27 AM
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Both potential crimes that have been listed are misdemeanor's, and the deputy would have to witness the event or you would have to sign a c.a. or private persons arrest form. Meaning you are actually responsible for the arrest, and are subject to false arrest claims also. Again quite a bit depends upon the circumstances, of crossing the fence line, using a bit of caution and discretion in enforcing your no trespassing signs may save you from many headaches in the future.
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Old 07-27-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
FYI, there is no crime of "B&E" or breaking and entering in California. That's a tv term, just like the word "collar" for an arrest. In 32 years of LE the only time I heard the word collar used was on tv.

You have burglary, which involves a structure or in your case, a trespass. The damage to the fence might be vandalism, depending on the circumstances.
I'm going to tell everyone at briefing about that big 'B&E Collar' I got, just to get a big laugh.
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Old 07-27-2012, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
Like others have said Trespassing as long as there are signs. The damage to the fence has to be intentional for vandalism if I recall correctly. If it was damaged as someone climbed over it then it is included in the trespassing charge.
^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Vandalism requires the damage be "malicious". If the damage was incidental to other activity, there is no vandalism.
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Old 07-29-2012, 4:28 PM
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Couple things...I am assuming you are in California although I don't recall it being so specified in this thread unless I missed it. Next, since your neighbor just got released from state prison he is probably on parole, and since it was for a violent crime chances are he is not part of the California Realignment program so he's likely still on state parole and not remanded to the county adult probation department.

You could contact state parole and talk to his P.A. Tell him if you have potential victims in your house, and that your property is fenced and that you want to be sure your new neighbor is never welcome on your property.

As a parolee, we can treat him a little different than a plain new arrival to the neighborhood. The parolee may claim you were singing the "Mr. Rogers Welcome to the Neighborhood Song" but by formally reaching out to his P.A. you are letting him know he will be considered a trespasser. Trespass, vandalism, even burglary can be no big deal PC for an arrest, but for a parolee it is more severe and can trigger revocation. Him being a sexual offender is not a good thing, being on parole at least gives you some leverage. If you have to call the cops, make sure you tell dispatch he is a parolee (assuming he is).
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Old 07-29-2012, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Google "California surveyor's right of entry". Of course, that does not allow anyone to damage another's property.
There was one of them surveyors traipsing over my property a few weeks ago. At least he said he was a surveyor.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:24 PM
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There is also 647(h), commonly referred to as prowling. The tough part is proving the person's intent to commit a crime if the opportunity presents.

Quote:
647(h): Except as provided in subdivision (l), every person who
commits any of the following acts is guilty of disorderly conduct, a
misdemeanor: Who loiters, prowls, or wanders upon the private property of
another, at any time, without visible or lawful business with the
owner or occupant. As used in this subdivision, "loiter" means to
delay or linger without a lawful purpose for being on the property
and for the purpose of committing a crime as opportunity may be
discovered.
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:10 AM
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Default neighbor

This is some of the public info that was presented to me by the S.O.



286(c)(2) SODOMY BY FORCE OR FEAR OR VIOLENCE
261(2) ATTEMPTED PRIOR CODE - RAPE BY FORCE
261.2 PRIOR CODE - RAPE BY FORCE
Registrant has subsequent felony conviction(s) but DOJ has no incarceration information for this felony.
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:11 AM
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Default good info

Quote:
Originally Posted by eltee View Post
Couple things...I am assuming you are in California although I don't recall it being so specified in this thread unless I missed it. Next, since your neighbor just got released from state prison he is probably on parole, and since it was for a violent crime chances are he is not part of the California Realignment program so he's likely still on state parole and not remanded to the county adult probation department.

You could contact state parole and talk to his P.A. Tell him if you have potential victims in your house, and that your property is fenced and that you want to be sure your new neighbor is never welcome on your property.

As a parolee, we can treat him a little different than a plain new arrival to the neighborhood. The parolee may claim you were singing the "Mr. Rogers Welcome to the Neighborhood Song" but by formally reaching out to his P.A. you are letting him know he will be considered a trespasser. Trespass, vandalism, even burglary can be no big deal PC for an arrest, but for a parolee it is more severe and can trigger revocation. Him being a sexual offender is not a good thing, being on parole at least gives you some leverage. If you have to call the cops, make sure you tell dispatch he is a parolee (assuming he is).
Thank you.
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Old 07-30-2012, 12:17 AM
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Default prowling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiko View Post
There is also 647(h), commonly referred to as prowling. The tough part is proving the person's intent to commit a crime if the opportunity presents.
I believe that I saw this guy the other day trying to hitch a ride into town. Although I cannot be positive, the person that I observed did look like the photo that I have and was within walking distance of the registrants address. I hope nobody picked him up.
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