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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #201  
Old 07-04-2010, 8:23 AM
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If someone would have told me that there was a firearms forum on which a large portion of the staff and posters were supporting governor moonbeam.

I would not have believed it. No wonder we are losing our rights in Kalifornia. I used to think that there was a core of kalifornians that were still OK.

Maybe what all the other states say about us is true and we deserve what is happening to us.
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  #202  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:00 AM
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I get it. Some members here are going to vote with the Brady Campaign. I will not. When the Bradyites (to borrow your word) endorse Whitman (will never happen) I will switch sides.
That's funny. Here are the Bradyites *****ing and moaning about Brown. An enemy of my enemy...

Are you open to new information or was your mind made up before you read this thread?

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  #203  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:05 AM
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It is fascinating that so many posters think that Jerry must be anti gun because he is a Democrat whereas Meg must be pro-gun because she is Republican. These posters ignore ALL evidence to the contrary. They also ignore that "Moonbeam" has turned out, with hindsight, to be a sign of Jerry's advanced thinking, rather than the insult they use it as.

Stereotypes sure run deep.

And, just my two cents worth, I think Meg would have been quite happy to run as a Democrat had it not been that the Republican nomination field was weak, while the Democrat nomination field was strong. She had no strong Republican ties before this.
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  #204  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:10 AM
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How do we know for a fact that Brown owns guns (as was stated by someone a few posts back)?
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  #205  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:27 AM
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How do we know for a fact that Brown owns guns (as was stated by someone a few posts back)?
Elected politicians can be divided into just two groups:

Those that own guns and admit it

Those that own guns and lie about it.

Of course, at present, Meg is just a wannabe politician, she may not have reached the "I'm important, I'm at risk from loonie voters, I need a gun" stage.
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  #206  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:37 AM
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How do we know for a fact that Brown owns guns (as was stated by someone a few posts back)?
I never presume that gun ownership is a test of a candidates feeling s on RKBA, I used to be a vegan, anti hunting hippy. At the same time I was totally in favor of RKBA.

I didn't own a gun at the time, not because I didn't want one - I was spending all my money on smokables and stuff like that.
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  #207  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bodger View Post
How do we know for a fact that Brown owns guns (as was stated by someone a few posts back)?
Well, unless you've seen it yourself I guess you don't KNOW that he owns guns but the AP has reported on his gun ownership.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=263405

"Brown has angered gun control proponents, especially when he urged the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn Chicago's handgun ban.

Quote:
"I have respect for the Second Amendment," said Brown, who owns three guns and targets shoots occasionally on his ranch east of Chico, Calif. "Gun ownership is a fundamental right."
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  #208  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:58 AM
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I never presume that gun ownership is a test of a candidates feeling s on RKBA, I used to be a vegan, anti hunting hippy. At the same time I was totally in favor of RKBA.

I didn't own a gun at the time, not because I didn't want one - I was spending all my money on smokables and stuff like that.
No doubt true. I wouldn't base any politician's RTKB position on whether they owned a gun.
I've just read many times since JB filed that amicus brief that he owns guns, and I've never seen anything to indicate that he has stated that he does. I do remember something about him owning a shotgun when he was governor.

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Originally Posted by Glock22Fan View Post
Elected politicians can be divided into just two groups:

Those that own guns and admit it

Those that own guns and lie about it.

Of course, at present, Meg is just a wannabe politician, she may not have reached the "I'm important, I'm at risk from loonie voters, I need a gun" stage.
Wasn't there a story recently about her husband having a CCW? Of course, even if he does, I'm sure Meg wouldn't want the poor unwashed masses to have one.
Unless she couldn't get elected otherwise. That video someone posted a while back was pretty funny. When asked about CCW, she:
a) Did not know what CCW meant
b) Had no clue the difference between Shall Issue and May Issue.

EDIT: It's Fiorina's husband that has the CCW, not Whitman. Thx Bronze

Last edited by bodger; 07-04-2010 at 11:04 AM..
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  #209  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:02 AM
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No doubt true. I wouldn't base any politician's RTKB position on whether they owned a gun.
I've just read many times since JB filed that amicus brief that he owns guns, and I've never seen anything to indicate that he has stated that he does. I do remember something about him owning a shotgun when he was governor.



Wasn't there a story recently about her husband having a CCW? Of course, even if he does, I'm sure Meg wouldn't want the poor unwashed masses to have one.
Unless she couldn't get elected otherwise. That video someone posted a while back was pretty funny. When asked about CCW, she:
a) Did not know what CCW meant
b) Had no clue the difference between Shall Issue and May Issue.
That was Carly Fiorna.
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  #210  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
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Jerry Brown Promises NOT to Do The Job – Literally
by Thomas Del Beccaro

Recent polling has made it clear that the top concerns of the voters are the two sides of the same coin: out of control government spending and deficits. For decades on end, the wise have warned that a reckoning day would have to come to deal with decades of fiscal mismanagement. In California, that day is here. We need a leader strong enough to tackle the problem head on – Jerry Brown has made it very clear, he is not that person.

Keep in mind that leadership is not a function of getting elected. Indeed, the vast majority of those elected are not real leaders – even among Presidents. Think about it. How many great Presidents have we had over the last 100 years? You should be counting four or less – and if you do, you realize that real leadership is rare.

Among the many qualities required of leadership, vision ranks at the top – along with a plan on how to achieve that vision. It turns out that if you want people to follow you, it is a good idea to tell them where you want to go. If you are elected, a credible means to achieve your plan – and then resolve to see it through- are beyond necessary if you want to achieve your goals and maintain the support of the electorate. In these days of an ever demanding electorate, the support a newly elected official receives is more easily kept than recovered and the only way to keep is to execute on that credible plan from day one and consistently.

Sadly, Running Man Jerry Brown simply does not have leadership qualities. He loves to run for office – but once in office, he lacks the necessary leadership skills to succeed. In the face of the exhaustive and detailed plan of Meg Whitman, outlining a series of reforms to put California back to work and correct the fiscal problems of this state – Jerry Brown lacks the most elemental prerequisites of a leader: a vision and a plan.

But don’t take my word for it – take Jerry’s. Speaking about what he would do about the States problems:

“Brown said . . . that he would ‘go to the people step by step’ to solve California’s chronic budget woes, and ultimately put the proposed solutions on the ballot for them to decide . . . “Anything you do, whether to cut or seek revenue, is going to require a vote of the people,” Brown said. “That’s really my plan – for the first time, level with the people and key up a couple of key choices on what the direction forward needs to be. I don’t think the Legislature, with their lack of credibility, has the institutional credibility to do that.”

While I agree that the Legislature that put us in this mess lacks everything and anything needed to get us out of this mess – Brown’s admission above tells you all you need to know as to why he is a failed leader.

According to the Sacramento Bee, those comments were “his most expansive comments to date on the state’s budget blues.” In other words, despite running for this office for over a year, with just four months to go, Brown can articulate no vision and he has no plan other than pushing off the responsibility of leadership on voters. In other words, Brown wants us to his job – he wants voters to lead while he occupies yet another office. In sum, Brown doesn’t even have the resolve to put together a plan let alone see it through.

Simply stated, in this day of reckoning, California needs a leader in Sacramento who will take on responsibility not shirk it. We need a leader with a vision, a plan and resolve. With his “most extensive comments” to date, Jerry Brown has proven once and for all that he is not a leader let alone the Governor we need.
Those of you that THINK Jerry Brown will be better for you than Meg Whitman, because you think he's pro-gun, go a head and vote for him.

I don't think he is pro-gun, but he's REALLY good at running for office and being a great politician. As far as actually doing something? Not so much.

Meg Whitman IS anti-gun and all her statements and actions support that view.

I won't be voting for either one of these turds.

Last edited by thebronze; 07-04-2010 at 11:10 AM..
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  #211  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:09 AM
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bodger, sorry I didn't mean to imply that you would blindly support any candidate simply because it owns guns, I jsust write funny sometimes.
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  #212  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:10 AM
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I say reward politicians that are really pro gun
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  #213  
Old 07-04-2010, 12:43 PM
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I'm sorry, but when people like Gene and some of the other senior members of this forum who have been fighting the 2a fight longer than most of us, in the trenches with court cases and etc, say they believe that JB is the lesser of two evils, with written proof like an amicus brief and other letters, well I believe I must take their word for it.
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  #214  
Old 07-04-2010, 1:00 PM
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Ok gang, we've a ton of conjecture about Meg Witman and her positions regarding our rights. A few sound bites and some wild guesses.

That said I put this on her discussion forum because I found NOTHING by ANYBODY about Guns, Gun Control, Ammunition.

Also here's the link http://talktomeg.ning.com/forum/topics/gun-control

It may not be the most eloquent but it gets the point across and your comments might elicit some response from Meg.

"We, the gun owners of California, would like a definitive statement from Meg regarding her actual position on gun registration and "LEGAL" ownership in this state. We understand that while it's not really high on the priority list to get this state back to where it once was there are millions of us here that do care about not having our rights further infringed upon. We would also like to see some semblance of sanity regarding the purchase of ammunition, specifically in regards to AB962 which only puts a impediment to Legal gun owners and stifles our already shaky business climate here in California."

I'm not against rational discussion of a particular candidate but to support one just because they own guns vs one that supports the 2nd amendment but doesn't own guns seems a bit silly.
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  #215  
Old 07-04-2010, 3:16 PM
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I'm sorry, but when people like Gene and some of the other senior members of this forum who have been fighting the 2a fight longer than most of us, in the trenches with court cases and etc, say they believe that JB is the lesser of two evils, with written proof like an amicus brief and other letters, well I believe I must take their word for it.
TheBronze is on about leaders. I have to say that if it is a choice of following theBronze or following Gene, it is a no brainer.

Perhaps Meg is used to being a leader. In business, she has the power to sack subordinates who do not follow her lead. She has certainly pi$$ed me off with her advertising and uninformative website. I am far from convinced that anyone would follow her if their job wasn't at stake.

So, that article says that she will steamroller ahead forcing her opinion on us, whereas Jerry will ask us how we would prefer him to procede. And this counts against Jerry?
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  #216  
Old 07-04-2010, 3:20 PM
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TheBronze is on about leaders. I have to say that if it is a choice of following theBronze or following Gene, it is a no brainer.

Perhaps Meg is used to being a leader. In business, she has the power to sack subordinates who do not follow her lead. She has certainly pi$$ed me off with her advertising and uninformative website. I am far from convinced that anyone would follow her if their job wasn't at stake.

So, that article says that she will steamroller ahead forcing her opinion on us, whereas Jerry will ask us how we would prefer him to procede. And this counts against Jerry?
Ha! LOL! You're a joke! I didn't ask anyone to follow me. I posted an article that explains that your hero Jerry Brown lacks leadership and accomplishment to be Governor of this state.

Simmer down, Nancy.
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  #217  
Old 07-04-2010, 3:29 PM
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Ha! LOL! You're a joke! I didn't ask anyone to follow me. I posted an article that explains that your hero Jerry Brown lacks leadership and accomplishment to be Governor of this state.

Simmer down, Nancy.
You are trying to influence our behavior and bring it in line with yours. Sounds like attempted leadership to me.

Now Gene, there is a leader in that when he opines something, people take note.

And to take your article seriously, I would have to take the source seriously. I don't.
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  #218  
Old 07-04-2010, 3:37 PM
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You are trying to influence our behavior and bring it in line with yours. Sounds like attempted leadership to me.

Now Gene, there is a leader in that when he opines something, people take note.

And to take your article seriously, I would have to take the source seriously. I don't.
That's good, because the feeling is very mutual.
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  #219  
Old 07-04-2010, 3:38 PM
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I guess if people don't fall in line with views of the "leadership" of CalGuns they should just STFU, huh John?

No thanks.
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  #220  
Old 07-04-2010, 3:43 PM
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I guess if people don't fall in line with views of the "leadership" of CalGuns they should just STFU, huh John?

No thanks.
We've always known there are plenty of people willing to trade off gunrights for other trivial temporary concerns.

That's how we got this bad in the first place.
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  #221  
Old 07-04-2010, 8:05 PM
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I guess if people don't fall in line with views of the "leadership" of CalGuns they should just STFU, huh John?

No thanks.
resistance is futile you will be assimilated, please pick up your kool aid, purple blanket and Nike sneakers we have bought for you on ebay. thank you for your cooperation.
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  #222  
Old 07-04-2010, 9:36 PM
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Simmer down, Nancy.
Good way to make friends and influence people.



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  #223  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:06 PM
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We've always known there are plenty of people willing to trade off gunrights for other trivial temporary concerns.

That's how we got this bad in the first place.
This sort of comment makes you look like a short-sighted ideologue. Do you really think the direction this country is headed is a "trivial temporary concern?" Really? No wonder this country is all messed up. Maybe you should pick up "The Road to Serfdom" sometime. That's the path we're on right now. All of those "temporary trivial concerns" are things which help determine how society thinks and where it goes. If we head down the path to totalitarianism as time goes on, your earlier gun-related victories will have been for naught. At that point armed resistance would likely be futile without the military's help anyways, and anyone who doesn't resist the laws will have to turn 'em in. There is so much more to maintaing a liberal state and society than simply some RKBA victories. If we lose everything else but our gun rights, I can guarantee you they will follow in short order.
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  #224  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:28 PM
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I guess if people don't fall in line with views of the "leadership" of CalGuns they should just STFU, huh John?

No thanks.
At least they aren't deleting your posts like they do on some other web sites.
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  #225  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:35 PM
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This sort of comment makes you look like a short-sighted ideologue. Do you really think the direction this country is headed is a "trivial temporary concern?" Really?
All recessions end (- Andy Grove).
Recessions usually generate inflammatory 'oh the world is ending', blame the illegals (yes, they are problem but not the cause), etc.
Presidencies only last 8 years max.

Meantime the rest of us put our heads down and work and create value.

Quite a few of us have had a good years - hell I believe Gene Hoffman is having trouble counting his money. Many others here do well as well.

Some folks think they're owed a job and get lost when they don't have one. Always assume your current job is a temp gig and you have to find a new job next week - and with that attitude you'll always land on your feet. Spend several hours (at least 15% of work hrs) a week acquiring extra skills.
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  #226  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:36 PM
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Everyone spends a lot of time worrying about the candidate, when it's the folks they bring with them that you should be worrying about.
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  #227  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:37 PM
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We've always known there are plenty of people willing to trade off gunrights for other trivial temporary concerns.

That's how we got this bad in the first place.
To what trivial temporary concerns are you refering? I don't remember you asking me what concerns I have. Now you just sound like a liberal. Call my concerns trivial to my face if you ever bother to know and understand or even pretend to care.

Liberal democrats are how we got this bad in the first place and in every case.
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  #228  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:42 PM
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I wonder why, considering that CA's 'waiting period' on handgun purchases -- the first ever in the nation -- was signed by Governor Jerry Brown.

Also, the CalGuns Foundation as a fully qualified 501(c)(3) tax deductible organization should not be taking such positions.
FUD... California has had a waiting period since around 1923. While I am not sure if California was the first state, Jerry Brown did not sign into law the first waiting period or even the first expansion of the waiting period in California.

Other then he is a democrat, what is people's real objection to him. when a lot of people say they don't trust him or like him their reasoning comes down to his is a democrat. when people say they think he is a good choice, they at least point to things he has done that are pro 2nd amendment.

does it need to be pointed out again that our first Assault weapons law became law because of a Republican? The 50 cal ban, the pending mail order ammo ban, micro stamping etc are all law because of a Republican.

I am not a democrat, I don't tend to vote democrat, but I try not to be blinded by party labels. the 2nd amendment isn't or should it ever be a republican only cause.

as for calguns foundation taking a position...are they? or are members just voicing their own opinion? which is 100% legal. I haven't seen anything yet personally that said Calguns foundation endorses X candidate. don't confuse calguns.net and calguns foundation.
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  #229  
Old 07-04-2010, 10:49 PM
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And unsurprisingly, no one who is anti-Brown in this thread is engaging with the fact that the Bradys/LCAV is pissed off at him.

If he's anti gun why are the anti's mad at him?

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  #230  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
All recessions end (- Andy Grove).
Recessions usually generate inflammatory 'oh the world is ending', blame the illegals (yes, they are problem but not the cause), etc.
Presidencies only last 8 years max.

Meantime the rest of us put our heads down and work and create value.

Quite a few of us have had a good years - hell I believe Gene Hoffman is having trouble counting his money. Many others here do well as well.

Some folks think they're owed a job and get lost when they don't have one. Always assume your current job is a temp gig and you have to find a new job next week - and with that attitude you'll always land on your feet. Spend several hours (at least 15% of work hrs) a week acquiring extra skills.
What I'm talking about is far more significant than a recession. It seems you missed the point entirely.
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  #231  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:40 PM
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Jerry Brown or Meg Whitman will be the next governor.

Jerry - arguably good on 2A.

Meg - arguably bad on 2A.

On 2A issues Jerry seems the better choice.
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  #232  
Old 07-05-2010, 8:30 AM
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gordon.. I will admit that arnie was not the best man we could have gotten for the job or even the best republican and that he signed some bad laws but....

The laws were put in front of him exclusively by democrats. If a democrat gets in for governor then the democrats will pull out all the stops and send a mountain of new laws to a democratic gov to sign.

Arnie didn't hold the line all that well but Brown will open the floodgates for new laws that he will rubber stamp. He will not defy his party.

At least Meg may do it out of spite. It rarely matters what the politicians say.. Look at every democrat running and the photo op they have at some skeet shooting range or some such.

What does matter is that democrats are no friend of the second. What matters is that if a anti second law comes out it is by a democrat. if it makes it to be signed it is because it has overwhelming support of all the democrats (or near all of em).

Those are the simple facts of how we have gotten this far. Too many have bought into the idea of a "pro gun" democrat for too many years.
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  #233  
Old 07-05-2010, 8:41 AM
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Mulay El Raisuli Mulay El Raisuli is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr.Lou View Post
Everyone spends a lot of time worrying about the candidate, when it's the folks they bring with them that you should be worrying about.

That's interesting! So, can you share with us who's going to be in the "entourage?"


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  #234  
Old 07-05-2010, 9:35 AM
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Default Media Press Release Brady Campaign Endorses Jerry Brown For Attorney General

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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And unsurprisingly, no one who is anti-Brown in this thread is engaging with the fact that the Bradys/LCAV is pissed off at him.

If he's anti gun why are the anti's mad at him?

-Gene
Oh really.

Here http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/800

excerpt - On two of the most important issues facing the next Attorney General, Mr. Brown assured Jim and Sarah Brady last May he’d be supportive - continuing support for the Firearms Division of the Department of Justice and Supporting passage of microstamping legislation.


Thanks Gene, you made me use some google fu and I don't see any evidence yet that the antis are mad at him. I'll keep searching but for now I must declare your post Liberal BS.
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  #235  
Old 07-05-2010, 9:46 AM
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OK Gene found a headline that appears to agree with you but found this in the body of the article
"The usually talkative Brown didn't respond to our requests to be interviewed, but on Friday, his spokeswoman, Christine Gasparac, said the attorney general wouldn't be submitting another brief."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz0spZSGFNh

Haven't yet found them endorsing Whitman.
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  #236  
Old 07-05-2010, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And unsurprisingly, no one who is anti-Brown in this thread is engaging with the fact that the Bradys/LCAV is pissed off at him.

If he's anti gun why are the anti's mad at him?

-Gene

Seems like the amicus brief alone would get the Bradys up in arms.
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  #237  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:11 AM
hoffmang hoffmang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lugar View Post
OK Gene found a headline that appears to agree with you but found this in the body of the article
"The usually talkative Brown didn't respond to our requests to be interviewed, but on Friday, his spokeswoman, Christine Gasparac, said the attorney general wouldn't be submitting another brief."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz0spZSGFNh

Haven't yet found them endorsing Whitman.
How about you quote that headline:

Quote:
Gun opponents up in arms as Jerry Brown aids NRA

It may come as a surprise to many of his Democratic supporters, but Attorney General and gubernatorial hopeful Jerry Brown has gone to bat for the National Rifle Association.

The NRA's cause: urging the U.S. Supreme Court to guarantee the ability of gun owners across the land to keep and bear arms.

Last year, the high court struck down a ban on handguns in Washington, D.C., ruling for the first time that the Second Amendment's right to bear arms applies to individuals who keep a gun at home for self-defense. But the court made it clear the ruling applied only to the District of Columbia, a federal enclave.

Now, gun advocates are challenging Chicago's handgun ban, asking the Supreme Court to rule that the Second Amendment equally applies to the states. And there was no shortage of states - 34 in all - jumping on the bandwagon in support of the court hearing the case.

In July, before the court agreed to take the case, Brown went so far as to file his own friend-of-the-court brief asking that Chicago's gun ban be overturned - arguing that if the court doesn't act, "California citizens could be deprived of the constitutional right to possess handguns in their homes."

His stance has angered a number of gun control proponents.

Julie Leftwich, legal director of Legal Community Against Violence, said this isn't simply about Brown defending the Second Amendment - it also marks a dramatic turnabout from the administration of his Democratic predecessor, Bill Lockyer, a staunch gun control advocate.

"Jerry Brown hasn't shown leadership in the legislative arena related to the issue of gun violence prevention ... and he hasn't sponsored or weighed in on any significant gun bills," Leftwich told The Chronicle's Carla Marinucci.

Brown's pro-gun stand has also left some San Francisco officials scratching their heads. They're awaiting a ruling in the Chicago case to see how it might affect two local gun-rights lawsuits.

"I'm just gratified that the attorney general in his filing has acknowledged that California has been a national leader in passing commonsense legislation to regulate firearms," City Attorney Dennis Herrera said.

With the high court now agreeing to hear the Chicago case, the only question remaining was whether Brown - amid lobbying from both sides in the fight - would weigh in with another brief on the case's merits by Monday's deadline.
...
I've also posted some facts before that you may not be aware of. Jerry Brown:

1. Demoted Division of Firearms to a Bureau.
2. Iggy is gone.
3. Magazine lock permanence regulation abandoned.
4. Refocused BoF on armed prohibiteds instead of law abiding gun owners.
5. Prohibited BoF from lobbying for anti-gun bills. The lobbyist left and was the guy who worked on AB-962 for the Governator.
6. Opposed AB-962
7. Filed the Amicus talked about above.
8. Alison Merrilees is gone.

The only thing I've heard him do is there is a recent media item running around that he said the AW ban was constitutional. I can tell you his office is, shall we say, not too aggressive in Peña - where we're suing the state and his office defends.

There are a couple of more items that will hopefully surface in the next 60 days. Let's just say that Brown has done more to protect guns than Schwarzenegger.

-Gene
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  #238  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
How about you quote that headline:



I've also posted some facts before that you may not be aware of. Jerry Brown:

1. Demoted Division of Firearms to a Bureau.
2. Iggy is gone.
3. Magazine lock permanence regulation abandoned.
4. Refocused BoF on armed prohibiteds instead of law abiding gun owners.
5. Prohibited BoF from lobbying for anti-gun bills. The lobbyist left and was the guy who worked on AB-962 for the Governator.
6. Opposed AB-962
7. Filed the Amicus talked about above.
8. Alison Merrilees is gone.

The only thing I've heard him do is there is a recent media item running around that he said the AW ban was constitutional. I can tell you his office is, shall we say, not too aggressive in Peña - where we're suing the state and his office defends.

There are a couple of more items that will hopefully surface in the next 60 days. Let's just say that Brown has done more to protect guns than Schwarzenegger.

-Gene
How exactly did he oppose AB962? I tried to look that up the other day. I couldn't find anything other than he took no position on it.
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  #239  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:34 AM
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If we are voting solely on the 2nd amendment, the Libertarian candidate is the obvious choice. If we are looking at other important issues, both Brown and Whitman fail to meet the requirements of their own parties. I haven't made up my mind yet but I might just "throw" my vote away and vote for the best candidate regardless of their chance of winning. At least the winner might look at the vote count and realize they don't have a mandate to veer too far off course.

Thanx, Russ
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  #240  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:48 AM
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I must admit that it is really confusing my SF friends that I am for Jerry for gov- I've been a staunch R since the 1994 crime bill that introduced AWB to the country.

One thing about Jerry Brown, I have not always agreed with him but have always admired his integrity. He is a lot like an old friend of mine- in my old hippy weed smoking days in the seventies I had friends who were into meditation and new age stuff who didn't smoke weed and woke up early for yoga-but were still counterculture, Jerry is like them he wants to be open minded and fair so he took a look at what gunnies were saying ... of course we are historically correct and championing the good fight, ending racist laws. When you point out the racist origins of current gun law open minded ppl are persuaded.
Jerry 2010!!
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