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  #1  
Old 04-13-2019, 11:14 PM
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Default Targetmasters ffl and range are clueless

Went to do a ppt on an off roster in Milpitas targetmasters west and the owner (im assuming by the way he talked about the store) asked if I was an LEO (which I'm not) and tried to say I couldnt buy the gun because of pc32000. We tried to explain to him that the pc only applies to newly roster exempt agencies and not to previously exempt LEOs. He printed a paper and told me to read which I already knew the pc but entertained it and politely told him to reread what he had just gave me. He denied saying he knew what he was talking about and almost refused to do the ppt. So we read it out loud for him and he had this dumb look on his face and the only words he said was "uhh I'm sorry let's proceed".

I understand that not evrybody knows the laws but cmon man if you're an ffl you should be up to date on the current laws as you are an ffl that deals with guns on a daily basis so not knowing the law in inexcusable. The ppt took almost an hour and 20 minutes to do (why ? I do not know) Please avoid targetmasters, it seems that they are clueless and dont seem to have their things in order as their gun counter has been shut down for quite some time. Avoid them like the plague
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Old 04-13-2019, 11:23 PM
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At least he relented and recognized the law did not apply to your transaction. But what a hassle.
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  #3  
Old 04-13-2019, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
At least he relented and recognized the law did not apply to your transaction. But what a hassle.
Tell me about it. An hour and 20 for a ppt that usually only take about 15min at most ffls. I wont go there again. And I advise you to avoid that spot as well
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Old 04-14-2019, 12:00 AM
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Hahah hopefully you already picked it up.

They are going to read this and the paperwork will be missing when you go to pick it up!

Kidding....glad you called them out by name so others can avoid them.




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  #5  
Old 04-14-2019, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Yodaman View Post
Hahah hopefully you already picked it up.

They are going to read this and the paperwork will be missing when you go to pick it up!

Kidding....glad you called them out by name so others can avoid them.




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Haha dont say that man I barely did the dros today
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  #6  
Old 04-14-2019, 1:17 AM
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You really can't call the place a zoo because the animals at the zoo don't have guns.
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  #7  
Old 04-14-2019, 6:39 AM
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The pick-up will not go any smoother.

Worst FFL in CA.
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  #8  
Old 04-14-2019, 7:03 AM
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Nice touch to read it out loud..!!
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  #9  
Old 04-14-2019, 7:24 AM
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Many on this site, me included, have been lambasting TM for years...sorry you didnít see those posts....

Shooting there is literally putting your life at risk...

Good luck on the pick up...hope that works out OK.
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  #10  
Old 04-14-2019, 7:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmy View Post
Many on this site, me included, have been lambasting TM for years...sorry you didnít see those posts....

Shooting there is literally putting your life at risk...

Good luck on the pick up...hope that works out OK.
Damn I hope it goes well. We'll just have to wait another 10 days since they like to do 11 day waits
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  #11  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Nor*Cal View Post
The pick-up will not go any smoother.

Worst FFL in CA.
That's an awful tall claim!!
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  #12  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:10 AM
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That sucks OP.

I haven’t been to tm in many years. No plans to go back anytime soon.
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  #13  
Old 04-14-2019, 8:57 AM
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TM is doing PPT's now? their gun sales has been down since January- are they back to selling guns again? I have not been in there since last month. Another LGS employee told me they screwed up something and their FFL was suspended.
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  #14  
Old 04-14-2019, 9:00 AM
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Originally Posted by WWDHD? View Post
TM is doing PPT's now? their gun sales has been down since January- are they back to selling guns again? I have not been in there since last month. Another LGS employee told me they screwed up something and their FFL was suspended.
No they refused at 1st until they saw the gun and found out the seller was an LEO so they made an exception bit when we were almost done they owner I guess tried to refuse to do the transfer until I schooled him. Hundreds counter is still closed until further notice I believe
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  #15  
Old 04-14-2019, 9:04 AM
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Default gun owners destroy gun stores faster than libs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandingo27 View Post

I understand that not evrybody knows the laws but cmon man if you're an ffl you should be up to date on the current laws as you are an ffl that deals with guns on a daily basis so not knowing the law in inexcusable. The ppt took almost an hour and 20 minutes to do (why ? I do not know) Please avoid targetmasters, it seems that they are clueless and dont seem to have their things in order as their gun counter has been shut down for quite some time. Avoid them like the plague
I will support a local shop

I do support my local shops

Gun Owners get so pissed they will help to destroy one of the only
1) gun stores
2) gun ranges
in their area...


I am not sure why gun owners like to rip and rant so much.... Gun owners call for Boycotting all the time....


The owner processed the transfer in the end- that is good
Would the owner be up for an educational session?
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2019, 9:12 AM
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I've done several PPTs at Milpitas strictly because of its location and each time was no less than an hour.

The longest PPT? 2 hours! Granted, that was for 3 guns all of which were off roster. Thankfully there was a very knowledgeable woman there who knew what she was doing so I didn't catch any flak for all three handguns having "Not Legal in California" printed on the gun manufacturer cases. That always gets intriguing looks from everyone in the shop.

The problem is that they have so much paperwork and are so concerned with covering their asses (which I don't blame them for) so the state doesn't shut em down.

The fastest PPT I did was some place in Hayward or San Leandro off of Mission. Only took 20 minutes. Couldn't have been happier.
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  #17  
Old 04-14-2019, 9:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
I will support a local shop

I do support my local shops

Gun Owners get so pissed they will help to destroy one of the only
1) gun stores
2) gun ranges
in their area...


I am not sure why gun owners like to rip and rant so much.... Gun owners call for Boycotting all the time....


The owner processed the transfer in the end- that is good
Would the owner be up for an educational session?
Fair enough...but...my comments are based on going to a place over time...and eventually having enough bad/dangerous experiences that I am comfortable with making an informed comment.

I agree that we, as a community that supports 2A and in general any retail/ffl that contributes...in a positive way.

Like most things in life...there are certain exceptions. I make NO exceptions on safety...and that is where I draw the line with places that have ranges.

Just my .02$
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  #18  
Old 04-14-2019, 9:42 AM
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these guys have the most rock bottom prices I've ever seen. But the amount of hassle that goes along with patronizing this establishment is prohibitive to going there. And as others have stated, shooting there is taking your life in your own hands.

Not my bag baby 🤣
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2019, 11:42 AM
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I'll be glad to loan you some body armor before you go back to TM, or Reeds that isn't any better.
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  #20  
Old 04-14-2019, 11:59 AM
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Go to RMB enterprises 2 minutes down the street. One the most awesome FFL to do business with. Rob will have you in and out in less than 15 minutes. No headaches or surprises and the best fees in the area.

Target masters saving grace is their happy hour pricing for rentals/fees, just be hyper vigilant of your surrounding when you are there. And their prices are very good but will it will be offset by the amount of time it takes to do a simple DROS.

Last edited by 911GT3; 04-14-2019 at 12:02 PM..
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  #21  
Old 04-14-2019, 12:35 PM
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Last week the guy behind the counter at Target Masters told me it's illegal to have loaded mags in my locked ammo container and I can get arrested.
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Old 04-14-2019, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JavelinFangs View Post
Last week the guy behind the counter at Target Masters told me it's illegal to have loaded mags in my locked ammo container and I can get arrested.
What is it about gun stores that attract such incompetent and ignorant employees and owners? Donít get me wrong, some shops have great owners and employees. But all too often we hear stories about owners and employees spreading absolute fuddlore to their customers.
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Old 04-14-2019, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandingo27 View Post
Went to do a ppt on an off roster in Milpitas targetmasters west and the owner (im assuming by the way he talked about the store) asked if I was an LEO (which I'm not) and tried to say I couldnt buy the gun because of pc32000. We tried to explain to him that the pc only applies to newly roster exempt agencies and not to previously exempt LEOs. He printed a paper and told me to read which I already knew the pc but entertained it and politely told him to reread what he had just gave me. He denied saying he knew what he was talking about and almost refused to do the ppt. So we read it out loud for him and he had this dumb look on his face and the only words he said was "uhh I'm sorry let's proceed".

I understand that not evrybody knows the laws but cmon man if you're an ffl you should be up to date on the current laws as you are an ffl that deals with guns on a daily basis so not knowing the law in inexcusable. The ppt took almost an hour and 20 minutes to do (why ? I do not know) Please avoid targetmasters, it seems that they are clueless and dont seem to have their things in order as their gun counter has been shut down for quite some time. Avoid them like the plague
I'm from souther california and I have read nothing but bad things about target masters. I'm surprised they are still open for business.
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  #24  
Old 04-14-2019, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
I will support a local shop

I do support my local shops

Gun Owners get so pissed they will help to destroy one of the only
1) gun stores
2) gun ranges
in their area...


I am not sure why gun owners like to rip and rant so much.... Gun owners call for Boycotting all the time....


The owner processed the transfer in the end- that is good
Would the owner be up for an educational session?
Hold on there cowboy FFLs like that are destroying themselves not by us customers. By them doing what they are doing and being clueless are driving their own business into the ground. We try to help them but by being treated the way we do makes us not want to go back so please think long and hard about it before you come to the rescue for an FFL that is destroying itself from within

Last edited by Mandingo27; 04-14-2019 at 5:38 PM..
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Old 04-14-2019, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by zan101 View Post
I'm from souther california and I have read nothing but bad things about target masters. I'm surprised they are still open for business.
This.

Me too. Everything I have ever read or came across about Target Masters said that it is sucky place with many terrible memories and experiences quoted. .........
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  #26  
Old 04-14-2019, 6:25 PM
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In our state, we need all the ranges, stores and FFL’s we can get.

OP, thanks for helping the counter guy understand the law.
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  #27  
Old 04-14-2019, 6:25 PM
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Haha Tm is good for happy hour pricing, bonus that the dangerous newbies less likely to be there. and they do have low prices, though sportsmans sale prices are better (Tm cant really compete with a regional chain).

Best to go to rmb for any actual transfer stuff.
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  #28  
Old 04-14-2019, 7:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JavelinFangs View Post
Last week the guy behind the counter at Target Masters told me it's illegal to have loaded mags in my locked ammo container and I can get arrested.
Lol. Same exact thing happened to me at Target Masters about 2 years ago. Wonder if itís the same guy
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  #29  
Old 04-14-2019, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by baekacaek View Post
Lol. Same exact thing happened to me at Target Masters about 2 years ago. Wonder if itís the same guy
Wow they really are clueless
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Old 04-15-2019, 1:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
I will support a local shop

I do support my local shops

Gun Owners get so pissed they will help to destroy one of the only
1) gun stores
2) gun ranges
in their area...

I am not sure why gun owners like to rip and rant so much.... Gun owners call for Boycotting all the time....

The owner processed the transfer in the end- that is good
Would the owner be up for an educational session?
Keep celebrating mediocrity and that's what you get. Perfectly normal.
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  #31  
Old 04-15-2019, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofWWIIDI View Post
That sucks OP.

I havenít been to tm in many years. No plans to go back anytime soon.
Same here, I rather just do dry-fire drills then go there. Even racking the slide and manipulation of the safety/decocker would be more practice than going there
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  #32  
Old 04-15-2019, 10:58 PM
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We're always going to need the Disneyland option. For folks who want to rent, and try something out the first time, this is an important thing to get more folks involved in the shooting sports.

Where else can they rent, besides Reeds? I've been shooting at both and Reeds (when it was called Nationals) and TM for more than twenty years. I've seen ranges come and go, and miss them all. I used to work graveyard shifts and loved shooting at TM at 10PM.

If you don't support them, then the economics work out such that they can't hire 'knowledgeable' employees, by CalGuns standards, and that's a pretty high bar to set.

So they've got employees that aren't on the up and up for gun laws in CA? Why is that? Maybe they can't pay them as much because more experienced shooters shun them in favor of other ranges, and so they get less $$$, so their prices are lower.

Yes, the paperwork sucks. I can't speak to PPT (which all LGS loathe), but
I've DROSed at least two guns over the years and it's not fun. I had an even worse experience with Bass Pro in San Jose recently, and that was for a freaking shotgun.

We can 'hate' on them but they serve a purpose, and it's needed.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JavelinFangs View Post
Last week the guy behind the counter at Target Masters told me it's illegal to have loaded mags in my locked ammo container and I can get arrested.
I'd laugh at the guy at this point...
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  #34  
Old 04-16-2019, 6:56 AM
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I visited TM quite frequently when I lived in San Jose (on Milpitas border). Their own internal policies drove me crazy but I dealt with it and purchased several handguns from them. Their selection and prices were good for the area and the fact they were close really helped.

I even used the range quite a bit but I usually did so during the day to avoid the type of crowds others have mentioned.

I tried to educate the staff numerous times, including on whether loaded mags could be in the same locked case or not. Their argument was that a LEO might construe a loaded magazine that was just touching the gun as being inserted. We disagreed often on this and other questions they would ask but I would usually point out what's 'legal' vs what someone 'should probably do'. I do think that the senior staff knows what's legal and what is not but they always tend to be overly conservative. In the end, I would stick with my answers and what was 'legal' to help educate them but would appease them by giving them the answers they wanted to hear.

I do think they will continue to tell you things that are FUD, again to be overly conservative, but I've come to expect that from them. You can try to continue to educate them but just expect some disagreements from them.

Would I buy from them again? Probably, but I know what to expect - FUD, long waits, and extra paperwork. I remember one time when they even photo copied the front & back of all the money I used when I paid cash, just so they could keep track of the serial numbers.

Oh, and BTW, I did have one transaction that was less than 40 minutes from the time I entered & exited the store! It was crazy, I know!!
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Old 04-16-2019, 6:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghideon View Post
We're always going to need the Disneyland option. For folks who want to rent, and try something out the first time, this is an important thing to get more folks involved in the shooting sports.

Where else can they rent, besides Reeds? I've been shooting at both and Reeds (when it was called Nationals) and TM for more than twenty years. I've seen ranges come and go, and miss them all. I used to work graveyard shifts and loved shooting at TM at 10PM.

If you don't support them, then the economics work out such that they can't hire 'knowledgeable' employees, by CalGuns standards, and that's a pretty high bar to set.

So they've got employees that aren't on the up and up for gun laws in CA? Why is that? Maybe they can't pay them as much because more experienced shooters shun them in favor of other ranges, and so they get less $$$, so their prices are lower.

Yes, the paperwork sucks. I can't speak to PPT (which all LGS loathe), but
I've DROSed at least two guns over the years and it's not fun. I had an even worse experience with Bass Pro in San Jose recently, and that was for a freaking shotgun.

We can 'hate' on them but they serve a purpose, and it's needed.
I hear you but I feel that TM does more bad than good. And it's not close. I also feel they are an exception to the rule.

And their lack of knowledge has nothing to do with not getting enough business to hire good employees. Even at the peak of their existence they sucked and would spread endless FUD. Their problem is from the top down, always has been. And the range is also as dangerous a place that you can visit.

It's just a crappy place with a long history of bad customer service, excessive and unnecessary paperwork, and endless amounts of FUD.
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Old 04-16-2019, 11:35 AM
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They entered the incorrect Serial Number on a purchase from them (they left the letters off, and just entered the numbers), and the DROS had to start over from scratch. Took a month to get the purchase in hands.

So yea........... never going back.
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Old 04-16-2019, 3:25 PM
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Originally Posted by baekacaek View Post
Lol. Same exact thing happened to me at Target Masters about 2 years ago. Wonder if itís the same guy
No, I think this guy started in maybe last 4-5 months.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
I'd laugh at the guy at this point...
He's an older gentleman, I tried to reason with him but he was sure it's part of the weapon and totally illegal so I just left it alone.
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  #38  
Old 04-17-2019, 1:07 AM
cruffler cruffler is offline
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Originally Posted by ghideon View Post
We're always going to need the Disneyland option. For folks who want to rent, and try something out the first time, this is an important thing to get more folks involved in the shooting sports.

Yes, the paperwork sucks. I can't speak to PPT (which all LGS loathe), but
I've DROSed at least two guns over the years and it's not fun. I had an even worse experience with Bass Pro in San Jose recently, and that was for a freaking shotgun.

We can 'hate' on them but they serve a purpose, and it's needed.
You make a good point about places to rent. There aren't that many in the South Bay Area, so losing one, even one that isn't good, isn't desirable.

About paperwork - why go to TargetMaster for a PPT, when RMB Enterprises (Rob Blank) isn't that far away? Doing paperwork correctly and efficiently is what he does, day after day. He knows what he is doing, doesn't overcharge, and he treats people with respect.

So I think we need every available target range. But LGS's that treat their customers as an annoyance (or worse) deserve to fail.
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  #39  
Old 04-17-2019, 5:50 AM
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olddirtygerm olddirtygerm is offline
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If I want to shoot on lunch I go to Reeds since itís by my office. For a PPT or a transfer I go to Farwest Photography. I donít usually go to Targetmasters unless I want to compare a price.


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  #40  
Old 04-17-2019, 9:44 AM
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rp55 rp55 is offline
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"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown Targetmasters"
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