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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 73 8.08%
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  #10161  
Old 01-17-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
Wow those are really good prices - thanks for reference. I arrive pretty late the day before course. I'll give them a call to see if a late (or very early morning) pickup is an option.
They will also deliver to some of the Pahrump hotels: Best Western, Holiday Inn and Wine Ridge. They've always had my order waiting when I check in the night before.
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  #10162  
Old 01-17-2019, 12:42 PM
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If you are staying in pahrump they will drop off at best western for you. ASW are good people.
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  #10163  
Old 01-17-2019, 1:20 PM
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If you are staying in pahrump they will drop off at best western for you. ASW are good people.
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  #10164  
Old 01-17-2019, 2:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
Thinking about taking a slight forward cant OWB holster at 4 oíclock to Adv Tac HG. I see that the forward cant is allowed but donít see any mention of behind 3 oíclock. Anyone know if 4 oíclock with cant is ok?
There's hardly any line shooting in Adv Tac HG, so its very unlikely that it will be an issue. The whole shooter/coach thing basically goes out the window.
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  #10165  
Old 01-17-2019, 2:39 PM
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The first marksmanship course starts tomorrow. Is anybody taking it? I hope to see a review of it.
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  #10166  
Old 01-17-2019, 3:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DRM6000 View Post
The first marksmanship course starts tomorrow. Is anybody taking it? I hope to see a review of it.
I didn't even notice the new rifle courses. Looks like that, along with the Precision Rifle series is more tailored to the non-semi-autos and longer range folks. Interested to hear how it went.
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  #10167  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post

Jedi you are going to love the RHT holsters. I have 4 of them and been a customer for a while. If you want something really stiff, choose the double thickness. I use them for USPSA and IDPA. They really hold up.
I went with double kydex on this one, now just need to order some more blade tech mounting hardware as the holster will probably be here in a few weeks. I've heard a lot of great things about their holsters so excited to try it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXstasy View Post
I just registered myself and a couple of my friends for the 06/21/19 2-Day Tac HG. We just got back from the 4DDHG on 12/14/18 as well. We started on Range 1 and ended up on Range 25.
it's going to be HOT in late June so make sure you guys are prepared for the weather. Start hydrating a full 24 hours prior to the class and drink water at every opportunity during the course.

how was 4 day HG? who was your RM / range staff?


Quote:
Originally Posted by damon1272 View Post
Be prepared. It will be cold. Froze my butt off last February I went.
I'll be back out there next month for 4 day HG again. I was there late Feb last year and it was pretty freaking cold.
It's all about adding layers in that kind of weather. As long as it doesn't rain I'm good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
Thinking about taking a slight forward cant OWB holster at 4 oíclock to Adv Tac HG. I see that the forward cant is allowed but donít see any mention of behind 3 oíclock. Anyone know if 4 oíclock with cant is ok?
It's going to be the RM's call on that one. The preferred location is obviously 3 o'clock and some will allow it to be further back but I've seem some RM's be more insistent on it having to be at 3 o'clock based on the shooters skill set.
that said, in Adv Tac you don't do a lot of static shooting from the line so they may be a bit more lenient. If it were 4 day HG, that's probably a no go.
what type of holster is it?
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  #10168  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DRM6000 View Post
The first marksmanship course starts tomorrow. Is anybody taking it? I hope to see a review of it.
Yeah, looking forward to a report on this new course. Iím planning on doing it in April with a .300BO AR with 1-4x AR type scope. Iím interested if my equipment will be suited to the course.
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  #10169  
Old 01-18-2019, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by steelciocc View Post
Yeah, looking forward to a report on this new course. Iím planning on doing it in April with a .300BO AR with 1-4x AR type scope. Iím interested if my equipment will be suited to the course.
Same here. I wasn't sure whether it would be more appropriate for an AR with 3-9x or maybe a bolt action, or whether it would even matter. Looking forward to the first reviews of the course.
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  #10170  
Old 01-18-2019, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Citizen_B View Post
Thinking about taking a slight forward cant OWB holster at 4 o’clock to Adv Tac HG. I see that the forward cant is allowed but don’t see any mention of behind 3 o’clock. Anyone know if 4 o’clock with cant is ok?
Ymmv. I started out outside the OWB appendix in adv tac. One of the instructors asked if I usually carried appendix and didn't seem concerned after I told him yes. An hour later another instructor didn't like it and told me to put it on my side. I can't see 4 o'clock being an issue or really noticed.

On another note, has anyone taken the rifle class with a braced pistol instead of a 16" rifle? Is it allowed?
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Last edited by autoduel; 01-18-2019 at 5:24 PM..
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  #10171  
Old 01-18-2019, 6:13 PM
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They do not allow braced pistols. Have seen some SBRís but they were guys from an agency.
Would be interested too in The marksmanship class. Reading the description doesnít help as they take shots from close in to 400. Too close for a mil for higher powered scope but not good for my 1x4 accupoint.
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  #10172  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DRM6000 View Post
The first marksmanship course starts tomorrow. Is anybody taking it? I hope to see a review of it.
Looking forward to hearing about this class as well. We learned a little about it in our last rifle class. Shots out at 400 yards. I'm building a 224 Valkyrie for a May class. I hope it's a good fit? I invited a few friends that are hunters for this class. They aren't so into the tactical stuff. Should be fun.
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  #10173  
Old 01-19-2019, 1:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
It's going to be the RM's call on that one. The preferred location is obviously 3 o'clock and some will allow it to be further back but I've seem some RM's be more insistent on it having to be at 3 o'clock based on the shooters skill set.
that said, in Adv Tac you don't do a lot of static shooting from the line so they may be a bit more lenient. If it were 4 day HG, that's probably a no go.
what type of holster is it?
The one Iím thinking about taking is an OWB kydex. Itís gotten plenty of use outside of FS. My first choice would be IWB appendix but I understand thatís definately a no-go.
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  #10174  
Old 01-19-2019, 1:16 PM
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I have Commander memberships available. PM for more info
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  #10175  
Old 01-19-2019, 4:57 PM
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Citizen,
IWB is allowed so long as its worn close to 3 o'clock. I've had students on my Range that have used them. Again, it's not preferred but if you demonstrate proficiency and you're SAFE, often times the RM will allow it so long as the holster doesn't collapse and it's of good quality.

In Adv Tactical, different ballgame since the class is much more dynamic.
When are you taking the course? I can double check when I'm out there next month.


Pic of the OWB you want to use? I used my Bravo concealment holster that has a forward cant before and there were no issues.

Last edited by Jedi54; 01-19-2019 at 4:59 PM..
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  #10176  
Old 01-19-2019, 7:37 PM
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Default OK, who here has done the 2 or 4 Day Rifle Marksmanship?

This weekend is the first class of either the 2 or 4 Day Rifle Marksmanship.

How was it?

Do's and don'ts please? I need some pointers.

What to bring? Would bringing a spotting scope be a good idea?
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  #10177  
Old 01-20-2019, 5:41 PM
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here is my 4 Day Four Weapon Tactical write-up.

took about 4 years to get all the pre-reqs knocked out to attend the class. there were 11 students in the class (high turn out, usually around 5-6 I'm told) and we had 4-6 instructors on range for us depending on what was going on.

day 1 started off with decent weather, shot about 180 buck, 20 slugs, and 150 rounds of 9mm in the pistol. did a lot of one-handed shotgun shooting (strong side and support side. I need to work out more.) and about half of the 9mm was shotgun>handgun transition.

day 2 was rifle day, in light rain. shot about 300 rifle and another 150 rounds of pistol. drills on the range in the morning and early afternoon. late afternoon was in the sim bays with the Shotgun and pistol. most pistol shooting from this point on was usually longgun<>handgun transition.

day 3 was UZI day, no rain. shot about 600 rounds in the UZI and 150 rounds in the pistol. did a couple sim bays house clearing with the UZI, that was fun. evening shoot on day 3 did some more range drills with mounted light on the rifle (or optional shotgun) and pistol. then went to the sim bay and worked with the shotgun and pistol. really got confusing trying to maintain light control with both shotgun and handgun as I went through a scenario and had to switch back/forth between the two platforms.

day 4 was a mix of everything, mega rain (combat conditions, no extra charge! ). shooting rifle while walking backwards, support side, in the mud, really made getting an accurate shot off difficult. seemed like I picked up 5 pounds of mud and had 3" platform shoes at time. I did some more pistol work in the sim bay to close out the class.


in the sim bays, there were tons of difficult shots, such as starting with shotgun or uzi and when opening your eyes having 4 targets facing you, 2 bad guys pointed in on you and 2 hostage takers, and a 5th bad guy pointing in from the side. take out the 3 guys pointing in on you with the shotgun/uzi and then transition to the handgun so you could guarantee the head shots. then switch back to the long gun and continue into the bay. lots of rule 4 violations in the target setups where you had to make sure you had a clear shot and had to often move to get that clear shot. sometimes, you couldn't even get a clear shot and had to move on and see if you could get an angle from a different location. I didn't know that FS had LEO targets until now, oops.

even on the range, there were a lot of rule 4 violations set up for the targets with innocents behind the bad guys.

Basically, it could be described as a mashup of the "Long gun tactics", "Tactical Scenarios", and "Integrated Handgun" classes. really made you think. really fun class.


final approx. round count looked like this:
1100 9mm
220 buck
20 slug
400 .223

I'll definitely be back for this class the next time its offered in 2020.
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  #10178  
Old 01-20-2019, 5:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
This weekend is the first class of either the 2 or 4 Day Rifle Marksmanship.

How was it?

Do's and don'ts please? I need some pointers.

What to bring? Would bringing a spotting scope be a good idea?
I was talking with the RM that would be running the class this weekend and it didn't sound like a spotting scope would be of any assistance. same for a kestryll or similar aid (not allowed)

there's a new target design for this class and the precision class as well. its 5 circles, different size for each distance (about 2MOA). close in shots are standing and as you go out farther, you can go prone. whatever equipment you want to use, you have to carry for the entire test.
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  #10179  
Old 01-21-2019, 7:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
I was talking with the RM that would be running the class this weekend and it didn't sound like a spotting scope would be of any assistance. same for a kestryll or similar aid (not allowed)

there's a new target design for this class and the precision class as well. its 5 circles, different size for each distance (about 2MOA). close in shots are standing and as you go out farther, you can go prone. whatever equipment you want to use, you have to carry for the entire test.
Thanks, Jack. That sounds like lightening the gun is in order. Iíll take off the back up irons and all the unnecessary rail stuff. Was thinking of a rear monopod, but this makes it sound to be a liability than an asset.

Sounds like you had a great class too!
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  #10180  
Old 01-21-2019, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Thanks, Jack. That sounds like lightening the gun is in order. Iíll take off the back up irons and all the unnecessary rail stuff. Was thinking of a rear monopod, but this makes it sound to be a liability than an asset.

Sounds like you had a great class too!
its still a learning process to figure out the best setup for the class. the RM mentioned using sling support for the standing shots and that bipods and rear support was beneficial at the longer prone distances (didn't sound like there was a time limit for the shot so you could take the time to dial in your rear support). the RMs are working on DG'ing the class themselves with different rigs so its a learning process for everyone.

the thought is that .223 is going to be at a disadvantage at the 400 yard shot, but that still remains to be seen.
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  #10181  
Old 01-21-2019, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
its still a learning process to figure out the best setup for the class. the RM mentioned using sling support for the standing shots and that bipods and rear support was beneficial at the longer prone distances (didn't sound like there was a time limit for the shot so you could take the time to dial in your rear support). the RMs are working on DG'ing the class themselves with different rigs so its a learning process for everyone.

the thought is that .223 is going to be at a disadvantage at the 400 yard shot, but that still remains to be seen.
Darn. .223 is exactly what I am planning on bringing. Hope the heavier bullet would help some. Been counting on 69gr IMI Razor Core. Maybe get the 77gr version instead?

Ok, will get a rear monopod and see how things go in March.

Letís see what the others say.
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  #10182  
Old 01-21-2019, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Darn. .223 is exactly what I am planning on bringing. Hope the heavier bullet would help some. Been counting on 69gr IMI Razor Core. Maybe get the 77gr version instead?



Ok, will get a rear monopod and see how things go in March.



Letís see what the others say.
I think they said 37 people were scheduled for the class this last weekend, so hopefully there will be some class reviews soon

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
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  #10183  
Old 01-21-2019, 3:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waygeekierthanu View Post
Noooooo the brownies were my main reason for going to front sight!!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
the Beach Cafe wagon was gone, and even the vending machines outside the classroom.

right now, Mom's Diner is providing the box lunches (cold sandwiches) that you can order at administration, $12.

FS is finishing up their lunch wagon that is supposed to be done soon. even heard a rumor that they were planning on hiring Carmen to run it so maybe brownies will be back on the menu
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  #10184  
Old 01-21-2019, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
it's going to be HOT in late June so make sure you guys are prepared for the weather. Start hydrating a full 24 hours prior to the class and drink water at every opportunity during the course.

how was 4 day HG? who was your RM / range staff?
Thanks for the tip. I've never been out there in June. The weather does seem horrible. But as soon as we got back from our Dec class and looked to register, it was the last available date.

4 day HG was a great learning experience. We had a mixed group of 1st/2nd timers and 4 out of 5 of us managed to DG. I believe 8 people in total DG'd on our range (1 and 25).

Our RM was James Booth, accompanied by Tracy Wolkenhauer, Dennis McCarthy, and Mel Tolentino. I learned a lot from each of them. Awesome group. Tracy especially was very encouraging even through our shooting slumps. Dennis was hilarious and we were lucky to have him to lighten up the mood.

One takeaway I had was that our friends who were newer to shooting did so much better at the start. Whereas I had to break a bunch of bad habits picked up over the years of informal shooting. Getting some type of training right off the bat seems to be very beneficial, so I encourage everyone to do so.
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  #10185  
Old 01-21-2019, 7:02 PM
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You're welcome.
As a buddy of mine likes to say, there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad gear.
Dress for it. Pants and long sleeve to keep the sun off your skin. You'll be tempted to do shorts and t-shirt (as I've done before) but it's actually not the best route.
Also those neck sleeves you pour cold water on are AWESOME! I'll send you a link for some on Amazon if you need.

Booth runs a great range and Dennis is hilarious. Great for lightening the mood and really knows his stuff.
I always enjoy being on the range with those two.

You're right it's easier when you're learning from scratch as opposed to breaking old habits and trying to learn a new skill set.
Either way, congrats on the DG's!
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  #10186  
Old 01-21-2019, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertClimber View Post
Feb 18-19 Tac HG
Feb 20-21 Adv Tac HG
I didn't know you could enroll for both TacHG and Adv TacHG at the same time! This is good to know - essentially saving an extra trip to/back.

That said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
That said, I just called up Admin and scheduled for a class on 21-22 June 2019 (Fri & Sat).

Looking forward to meeting some Calgunners in 6-months!?!
_
UPDATE: I need to find a new date for the trip back to FS. I just found out that Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn will be doing a 2-day class in SoCal that weekend.

Since there are talks of Ken finally retiring from teaching, etc. this may be the last chance to learn from the Jedi Master...

Cheers!!!


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  #10187  
Old 01-21-2019, 7:28 PM
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Skills test results from the first Rifle Markmanship course this weekend.

54 students total
0 DG
0 G
54 CA

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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  #10188  
Old 01-21-2019, 7:45 PM
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this may be the last chance to learn from the Jedi Master...


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you rang???

but seriously: details on that Vickers course?
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  #10189  
Old 01-21-2019, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Skills test results from the first Rifle Markmanship course this weekend.

54 students total
0 DG
0 G
54 CA

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
yikes.
sounds like a challenging course! Which is a good thing???
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  #10190  
Old 01-21-2019, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
you rang???

Hahahaha!!!!


Quote:
but seriously: details on that Vickers course?
Here you go Sir: https://www.aztectrainingservices.co...jun-23-24-2019 (there is a mistake in the URL - it's actually 22-23)



Cheers,

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  #10191  
Old 01-22-2019, 8:46 AM
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Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Skills test results from the first Rifle Markmanship course this weekend.

54 students total
0 DG
0 G
54 CA

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Ow. What was the skills test?
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  #10192  
Old 01-22-2019, 8:52 AM
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Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Skills test results from the first Rifle Markmanship course this weekend.

54 students total
0 DG
0 G
54 CA

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
What do you think tripped everyone up on?
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  #10193  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acegunnr View Post
Skills test results from the first Rifle Markmanship course this weekend.

54 students total
0 DG
0 G
54 CA

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Hope theyíll loosen up the time limit for the timed portions.

Wonder how the test was scored?
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  #10194  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
Darn. .223 is exactly what I am planning on bringing. Hope the heavier bullet would help some. Been counting on 69gr IMI Razor Core. Maybe get the 77gr version instead?

Ok, will get a rear monopod and see how things go in March.

Letís see what the others say.
If your barrel can handle .556, you could get some more velocity.
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Old 01-22-2019, 1:54 PM
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ke6guj ke6guj is offline
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Hope they’ll loosen up the time limit for the timed portions.

Wonder how the test was scored?
I didn't get into too much detail with the RM about the test, but I do know that there were 5 different circle targets and it was used at two distances, so it was like a 3-3.5MOA target at the close distance and then at the next distance, it was 2 MOA. then, you went back to the next two distances with the next bigger target, etc.

not sure if there is any time pressure on it or not.

2 misses of the target is all you get for DG. so, I'm guessing 20 shots would be 18 hits for DG (90%). 14 hits would probably be the cutoff for G.

IIRC, the RM said that the best he had so far was 4 or 5 down.


oh, and he mentioned that it was all hold-overs for the targets, no knob twisting for your come ups. depending on the scope, he mentioned that the BDC ladder could be bigger than the target you were shooting at. something to keep in mind.
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