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Gunsmithing & How To Pro, Amateur & WECSOG and Tutorials, Guides & OLL Build Instructions |
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The 10/30 PMag - How To
Required materials:
30rd PMag 3/8" diameter rod, 5.10" long( ** I have been told by a couple people that on the new PMags this is too long and they are making their rods 4-5/8" long. I have not confirmed this. I would make the rod long. Reassemble and test. Cut a little off and repeat until it holds ten and only ten***) 1/8" diameter rod 1/2" long 2-part epoxy Tools: 1/8" drill hacksaw to cut the rods. Disassemble the PMag. This is the underside of the follower. That C shape is part of the spring retainer and has an ID of 3/8" Cut a piece of 3/8 rod to 5.1" long. Insert into the C on the under side of the Follower. yes this is a 20rd follower in the photo Drill through the rod and both sides of the C with the 1/8 drill. Drill at the red dot Insert the 1/8" rod. Make it so that both ends of the rod are just below the surface Coat with the mixed up epoxy Let the epoxy fully cure. Reassemble the magazine Holds ten rounds and there is just enough room so you can still remove the base plate. If you are at all worried cut the rod to 5.2" and then just trim until perfect. No interference with the spring.
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Shadow River Productions, LLC Colorado Springs, CO NFA Manufacturer and Dealer FFL-07 & SOT We are a CA-DOJ registered FFL and do out of state transfers www.EvilBlackRifleShop.com Please email all questions to sales@EvilBlackRifleShop.com Last edited by AlohaRover; 04-18-2009 at 5:23 AM.. |
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SWEET. Great post Pete!
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Nice technique and beautiful write-up, unfortunately...
without sealing the floorplate there's potential this could be considered insufficiently permanant as a swap of followers would allow full capacity. I would epoxy a limiter that impedes the follower onto the wall itself.
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Google Map of OLL Dealers List of CA-friendly Manufacturers, Dealers, Middlemen, and Magazine rebuild kit dealers Click me-->So you're a n00b and you want to build an AR? <--Click me This post is based on actual events. Some facts may be altered for dramatic purposes. All posts are pure opinion. All persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental, and should not be construed. |
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No one wants to be a test case, but if I'm going to buy 20 rounders to convert I want to be able to run std followers when out of state (in NV). My interpretation would be that modifying the magazine in the fashion that aloharover did and not securing the floorplate is fine, because you would have to "manufacture" a new ammunition feeding device by replacing the follower/rod with a new follower. That action is illegal. Merely having the mag and/or parts isn't. I'd still love a sanity check from Bill or Gene on this one. Chris
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"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984 |
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I've got some magpul 20 repair kits inbound, so I'd like to get a better standing on this. Otherwise, I'll probably just whack em to 10 rounders and call it done. Chris
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"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984 |
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Well I just got some last week from 44 mag. You pay an extra $1.75 or something and they will disassemble them as parts, then you modify them and reassemble them for 10 rounders. I am going to use self tapping screws on the sides, then spot weld them. So I ordered 30 rd mags and they took them apart and shipped them. 2 cost me less then $40 total shipped.
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See AlohaRover for mags, usually disassembles them for no charge. Gets you the right follower for a little extra. vinz
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Armis Exposcere Pacem VM-1 AMBI SLING PLATES stamped US made VM-1S Strap version ambi sling plate In Memory Of Babe....I also remember the Eggs and Country fried potatoes that went with that Bacon. ROFL |
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Permanency (undefinable) is not a factor it clearly is NOT a high cap mag and thus is "permanent" enough for my taste and the letter of the law. I would not sell it as is but would use it in my own rifle and suggest it to my customers to build from a parts kit.
Comments Gene?
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Last edited by FEDUPWBS; 09-10-2008 at 5:52 PM.. Reason: clarify |
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it is blood, old project
One thought I have is to drill and pin the base plate in place. Make the pin a little short and fill the holes with epoxy? I will do up another one, this time with blocks epoxied inside the mag body. I know the correct length now. I have also started a 10/20 conversion with the single rod up the middle method. I think the rod is 2.7" long for that one. All I did was to attach the rod and leave it too long. Insert into mag, add ten rounds, mark rod at base of mag.
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Shadow River Productions, LLC Colorado Springs, CO NFA Manufacturer and Dealer FFL-07 & SOT We are a CA-DOJ registered FFL and do out of state transfers www.EvilBlackRifleShop.com Please email all questions to sales@EvilBlackRifleShop.com |
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Also because of the fact stores that make 10/30s charge 25-30 dollars per mag. So if you could buy a rebuild kit and if you have extra materials lying around... might as well try to save 15 dollars and make it yourself :]
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I have an assortment of carbon steel rods in my scrap bin. 1/8 up to 1"
But I would think that anything with the correct diameter is going to work just the same. Aircraftspruce.com look at their aluminum tube. They sell it by the foot. 6061T6 ALUM TUBE 3/8X.035 1FT is 1.70 a foot.
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Shadow River Productions, LLC Colorado Springs, CO NFA Manufacturer and Dealer FFL-07 & SOT We are a CA-DOJ registered FFL and do out of state transfers www.EvilBlackRifleShop.com Please email all questions to sales@EvilBlackRifleShop.com Last edited by AlohaRover; 09-11-2008 at 7:15 PM.. |
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Here's another link where you can buy by the foot and have it precut to length /w delivery! http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant...=946&top_cat=0 Quick question, can you be more clear on exactly how you put the 1/8" x 1/2" rod on the bottom of the follower? Is it placed for structural support?
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The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing. Last edited by NiteQwill; 09-11-2008 at 9:03 PM.. |
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I just laid the follower/rod combo on the table of my drill press, just imagine the following photo the thing is on the drill press, on top of a piece of wood so I could drill all the way through. Drilled where the red dot is. Pete
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Shadow River Productions, LLC Colorado Springs, CO NFA Manufacturer and Dealer FFL-07 & SOT We are a CA-DOJ registered FFL and do out of state transfers www.EvilBlackRifleShop.com Please email all questions to sales@EvilBlackRifleShop.com |
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Google Map of OLL Dealers List of CA-friendly Manufacturers, Dealers, Middlemen, and Magazine rebuild kit dealers Click me-->So you're a n00b and you want to build an AR? <--Click me This post is based on actual events. Some facts may be altered for dramatic purposes. All posts are pure opinion. All persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental, and should not be construed. |
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I'm not sure if I understand the reasoning behind sealing a 10/20 or 10/30 magazine. The law doesn't address possession of high caps, just construction, sale, etc. If it is legal for me to import rebuild kits for the purpose of making them 10 rounders like when you cut a Pmag body for 10 rounds, how is it any less legal for the modications shown, so long as that in no point during the assembly of parts did you have a situation where the magazine could feed more than 10 rounds? I understand the premise of CYA, but in the instance of 10/20 or 10/30 mags, so long as the modification is permanent while the magzine is assembled, why is there a need to seal the mag? To keep the magazine in that configuration in the event it was confiscated by uninformed or ill informed LEOs? That's the only reason I can see.
Assuming that the rod stays pinned and epoxied to the follwer in perpetuity, the only way to make the mag feed more than 10 rounds is to remove the follower/rod, and substitute a standard follower. This is construction of a high capacity magazine and illegal, but merely having parts on hand doesn't break the law. Additionally, I'f I'm going to buy a host of mags and do this mod, it would make sense to buy a matching number of followers so I could hold more than 20 rounds when out of state. Sealing the magazine or otherwise altering the body so it can't be used in a 20 round configuration outside CA deprives me that economic benefit. Another argument can be found in loading 6.5 or 6.8 into 5.56 mags. If the magazine can only hold 10 or less of the larger rounds, my understanding is that it's legal. But if employed to hold more than 10 rounds of 5.56, and was acquired after the ban it's an illegal situation. The difference between the two states of legality has no indication of permanent modification to the body of the magazine. I have no question on the legallity of the modified mag, merely the idea that the body needs to be compromised in some fashion to impart permanence. This is an issue we should really get better clarification and consensus on as a community. Chris
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"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984 Last edited by Flat Broke; 09-12-2008 at 10:09 AM.. |
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It gets worse than that... if you can open the floor plate and shove a few rounds in the bottom of, say, a 10/20 you're holding more than 10rds. The current definition does not define the ability to feed all rounds of the capacity as a magazine capable.
Again, with the DOJ abdicating their responsibility and ability to define, I would argue we have a wide degree of latitude here. If they're unwilling to say what "permanent" means, what exactly is a 10rd mag, etc. the argument could be made we're in the clear just by something simple - like what's done with hunting shotguns. Which, again, leads us back to doing what you're comfortable with as sufficiently "permanent."
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Google Map of OLL Dealers List of CA-friendly Manufacturers, Dealers, Middlemen, and Magazine rebuild kit dealers Click me-->So you're a n00b and you want to build an AR? <--Click me This post is based on actual events. Some facts may be altered for dramatic purposes. All posts are pure opinion. All persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental, and should not be construed. |
#29
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...owulf+magazine
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=92480 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=78765 Last edited by trinydex; 09-22-2008 at 2:12 PM.. |
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Thanks for the links. I don't want to derail this thread further, with the alternative caliber scenario, so for now, I'll stick to the question of permanance required for 10/30 and 10/20 mags. Does anyone else have a take on why or why not the mag should be sealed at the floorplate.
Further, if the mag is sealed at the floorplate with epoxy, is there need to alter the body further once the rod has been pinned/epoxied? Chris
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"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984 |
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after getting the mags, if you look at them you will see how the lips of mthe floor plate wrap up around the sides of the mag. Just lay the mag on its side and drill right through the floor plate and mag body with a 1/8" drill bit. Cut some 1/8" rod so that when inserted in the hole its just below flush on each side. Fill this remaining space with some epoxy. The pin will lock the floor plate lock in place. If you later move or get your laws changed you can use an xacto knive to dig out the epoxy, pop out the pin. Remove the floor plate and fill the holes with epoxy.
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Shadow River Productions, LLC Colorado Springs, CO NFA Manufacturer and Dealer FFL-07 & SOT We are a CA-DOJ registered FFL and do out of state transfers www.EvilBlackRifleShop.com Please email all questions to sales@EvilBlackRifleShop.com |
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That's a pretty good compromise, I'd like to have 20 round access for when I'm in NV, but I guess I can just practice more mag changes with 10 round capacity mags
I didn't see it in this thread, but do you have a length for the rod in a 20 round mag body? Thanks, Chris
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"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." - Ronald Reagan, June 6th 1984 Last edited by Flat Broke; 09-22-2008 at 6:09 PM.. |
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Where does the 1/8" Rod go? would you happen to have more detailed pix? Where do you drill? drill the length of the rod? or across it (diameter wise)? |
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What's the drilling for? I just figured, you used the 5.1" rod and epoxy it to the follower, and that would be enough. thanks for ya'lls patience and answers |
#38
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Put the limiting rod into the C of the follower. Lay it on the drill press table, drill at the red dot. Pete
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Shadow River Productions, LLC Colorado Springs, CO NFA Manufacturer and Dealer FFL-07 & SOT We are a CA-DOJ registered FFL and do out of state transfers www.EvilBlackRifleShop.com Please email all questions to sales@EvilBlackRifleShop.com |
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aaahhhh....my apologies, i missed that. Thanks for the great info and tutorial! |
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thanks for the how to, AlohaRover, do you sell pmag 30 kits so I can build my own 10/30s according to your how to?
thanks, TZL |
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