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  #1  
Old 02-18-2018, 3:35 PM
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Default Anyone ever had experience with an ITAR license?

I started a small business selling parts for Blaser tactical rifles. They are pretty obscure rifles here in the States, and I am making things like monopods, spacers, magazines, etc. Some odds and ends really. Some people have contacted me from Europe (France and Germany) and I would love to sell them some accessories.

Looks like it's going to require an ITAR license. I have done some basic research but as usual with the government it seems like it's extremely complicated. Anyone ever worked for a company or did this themselves? It seems like there are two kinds of export licenses, one permanent and one temporary.

The paperwork isn't a big deal but what about the cost? I really can't afford much based on a few orders here and there.
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Old 02-18-2018, 3:49 PM
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The tax is like $2500 a year I think. Not sure. But I'll look into it. Even if you don't export, say gunsmiths here in the States, they are supposed to pay too. Totally unfair and a bunch of bull****!

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  #3  
Old 02-18-2018, 3:56 PM
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Asking in the FFL forum may be a good idea.
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Old 02-18-2018, 4:02 PM
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I pay it, it's $2,250 per year.
If you are manufacturing anything that could be considered to be "military equipment" (pretty much everything gun right now) then you have to register as a "Defense Industries Supplier".
Then you are bound by ITAR restrictions, whether you export or not.
To export, you need an approval from the Dept of Defense first.
This costs a percentage of about $500 per shipment, so obviously you need to send a bunch of stuff at one time to offset this cost.
That does not include foreign tariffs, taxes, import fees, actual shipping cost, etc.
If you do multiple shipments per year, then your annual fee goes up $500 a year, too.
The receiving country may also want to pre-approve or deny a shipment.

Be very careful with the export laws.
There are many pitfalls and the enforcement is strict.
I suggest finding someone who is already in the export business for these types of goods and let them handle it.
Hopefully they can consolidate your items with a larger shipment and thereby spread the costs out.
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Old 02-18-2018, 4:56 PM
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Information can be bounds by this also like emails with technical data. I had to get ITAR for traveling with a laptop with engineering drawings.
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  #6  
Old 02-18-2018, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojisan View Post
I pay it, it's $2,250 per year.
If you are manufacturing anything that could be considered to be "military equipment" (pretty much everything gun right now) then you have to register as a "Defense Industries Supplier".
Then you are bound by ITAR restrictions, whether you export or not.
To export, you need an approval from the Dept of Defense first.
This costs a percentage of about $500 per shipment, so obviously you need to send a bunch of stuff at one time to offset this cost.
That does not include foreign tariffs, taxes, import fees, actual shipping cost, etc.
If you do multiple shipments per year, then your annual fee goes up $500 a year, too.
The receiving country may also want to pre-approve or deny a shipment.

Be very careful with the export laws.
There are many pitfalls and the enforcement is strict.
I suggest finding someone who is already in the export business for these types of goods and let them handle it.
Hopefully they can consolidate your items with a larger shipment and thereby spread the costs out.
That's very enlightening, thank you. I suspected it would be a nightmare and of course it is, what else in new with the feds, lol. I can't see ever being able to spend that kind of money to justify a few random sales.

Are there any exemptions for small fries? Like a single exemption for a magazine or a monopod here and there? No ins and outs at all?
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #7  
Old 02-19-2018, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
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Are there any exemptions for small fries? Like a single exemption for a magazine or a monopod here and there? No ins and outs at all?
Nope.
And you have to spend the $2250 per year just to be in business making gun parts, not just if you want to actually export anything.
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  #8  
Old 02-19-2018, 9:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
That's very enlightening, thank you. I suspected it would be a nightmare and of course it is, what else in new with the feds, lol. I can't see ever being able to spend that kind of money to justify a few random sales.

Are there any exemptions for small fries? Like a single exemption for a magazine or a monopod here and there? No ins and outs at all?
Canadian visitors to the US can take home less than $100 of small parts.
There are restrictions on this, too.

Light at the end of the tunnel:
The severe clamp down on export started when Obama took office.
He appointed a new guy to head up the Defense Directorate Trade Control.
Obama, despite never getting the approval of Congress, gave instructions that the United Nation's ban on "small arms trafficking" would be enforced by the DDTC.
The new guy went way too far and locked up export of products from all kinds of industries, such as paints, fertilizers, airplane parts (even Cessna parts!), computer parts, guns and more.
He went too far and after all these industries complaining for several years, the export restrictions are being relaxed.
All categories have been released except firearms and parts.

Firearms and parts are in the final stages of being released.
There is lots of resistance from the left over Obama people.
Once this category gets released export will be much easier.
This has been dragging on for a couple years now.
When done, things like my Tommy Kits will no longer be under the control of the DDTC / Department of Defense, they will be moved to the Department of Commerce.
The DOC will help us to export as opposed to the DDTC which stops exports.
And hopefully no more ITAR fees for everyone once this gets through.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
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Firearms and parts are in the final stages of being released.
...
And hopefully no more ITAR fees for everyone once this gets through.
We can only hope! This would be great for small gunsmiths/manufacturers!

Any ideas on timeframe?
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  #10  
Old 02-19-2018, 12:09 PM
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The revised rules and regs are already done.
We are just waiting (and waiting, and waiting) for the implementation.
The last NSSF update said that the back rom negotiations are in process.
It's hard to make an estimate, I have been following this for several years now.
I hope to see the changes done by the end of the year.
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  #11  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:06 PM
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Looks like some relief coming on ITAR / EAR:

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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #12  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:40 PM
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LOL for my long-winded PM, Disco.

Wish I had seen this vid first.
Nice vid, good summary.

I'm gonna estimate the time frame right at...
Two weeks!
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Old 05-24-2018, 9:19 AM
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My wife and I both worked in Aerospace. (she still does).

There used to be a company called Hughes. They owned all those giant buildings near LAX just south of the 105 (AT&T, BOeing, Raytheon now...).

They were never convicted of ITAR violations. The investigation was so destructive that the company basically ceased to exist.

$1,000,000 and prison time for, essentially, a paperwork violation if the prosecutor is in a bad mood.

I wouldn't mess with it.
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Old 05-24-2018, 9:28 AM
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Who was it...Raytheon or Hughes or ???
US .gov approved the sale of new air to air missiles to Saudi Arabia.
Missiles were delivered but without instructions on how to use them.
SA asked for the "owner's manuals" so they could use the missiles.
Owner's Manuals were sent, ITAR said sending the manuals was not approved.
Multi-million dollar fine was waived if a comparable amount of work on a .gov project was done for free.
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Old 05-24-2018, 9:52 AM
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Sir Richard Branson owns Virgin Galactic, a space tourism company... as well as a small-satellite launch company whose name escapes me.

he is not an american citizen. Thus, the engineers at the company cannot discuss technical details with their boss.
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2018, 5:16 AM
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A good story about how things are developing and what they mean. July 9th is the deadline for public comment.

Still not entirely sure if us "gunsmiths" can export to other countries or how any of it will work under EAR.

ITAR Update Article
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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  #17  
Old 06-21-2018, 7:33 PM
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Thanks for the summary.

This is great news for gunsmiths and small manufacturers. It opens up parts manufacturing to small businesses.
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Old 06-21-2018, 8:12 PM
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Wasn’t there some letter that came out last year that exempted ffls for one offs and occasional firearm manufacture..

Edit, it’s for occasionally assembly

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefi...r-07-ffls/amp/
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:57 PM
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Yeah, I recall when that letter came out.
At least they defined the line a little better, even though one would consider most of those activities gunsmithing not manufacturing. Hopefully all that goes away with these proposed changes.

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Wasn’t there some letter that came out last year that exempted ffls for one offs and occasional firearm manufacture..

Edit, it’s for occasionally assembly

https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefi...r-07-ffls/amp/
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:18 AM
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Some news in a legal case about 3D printed file distribution. Not sure how this directly relates to any ITAR stuff but it seems to be touted as a big deal.

Still waiting on some kind of word on the actual public comment period or what the next step is. The deadline for the comments has passed.

ITAR ruling article
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Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMACA_MFG View Post
Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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Old 07-11-2018, 10:25 AM
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I understood it to mean also that as a gunsmith, even if you threaded barrels or chambered a barrel and put it in an action, anything they considered to accurize the firearm, the gunsmith had to pay ITAR fees. Ridiculous!

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  #22  
Old 07-30-2018, 2:50 AM
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Finally found the official government website for this process. Comments ended on July 9 and the rules changes should be in effect soon, as in the next few weeks.

Check back to the site for current info. Interesting to note in the comments 99% of them are against, and it seems like anti-gun groups spammed them with pre-made cookie cutter answers. Pretty hilarious but it shows the level to which anti-gun organizations take this kind of stuff seriously. I hope those idiotic comments don't effect the outcome.
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Not checkers, not chess, its Jenga.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez

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